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Date: 28 Apr 2008 15:53:17
From:
Subject: ranking the CC chess sites
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hi all i'm looking to improve my game and my thoughts have always been
that you wont get better unless you play better players than
yourself. i have been trying out several of the CC chess sites and
was wondering how one would rank the following sites as to the
strength of the competition. i have my thoughts as to which one has
the stronger players but would like the imput of others. the sites
i've tried out are as follows:
gameknot
redhotpawn
schemingmind
queenalice
chesshere
thanks again for all you imput
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Date: 02 May 2008 12:25:27
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: ratings / Re: ranking the CC chess sites
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On May 1, 7:13 am, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
> RookHouse <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I've only played on GameKnot, so that is the only one that I can
> > speak to.
>
> > I've played 287 games over the last few years on there and have a
> > 1724 rating. Just to correlate that figure for you a little bit, I
> > am definitely NOT a 1724 player. I've had a National Master play
> > through my games and he evaluated me to be about a 1400 caliber of
> > player.
>
> That tells you nothing about the strength of the players at GameKnot.
> It just suggests that ratings at that site are bigger numbers than
> USCF ratings. The rating system only looks at the difference between
> ratings so GameKnot could subtract 324 from everyone's rating tonight
> (or add 1000 or 1000000) without making any substantive difference to
> anything.
>
> Elo-style rating systems are essentially defined by three constants:
>
> 1. the rating of an `average' player;
> 2. the rating difference corresponding
> to a given expected score; and
> 3. `k', which governs how quickly ratings change.
Actually, I have proposed some other essential
parameters, so that the same site or (still better)
the same rating agency would provide you with several
ratings. For instance, the re could be a rating for
everybody but characteristic for expert strength, which
would be especially meanningful for experts. Or on the
highest level: Morozevich is perhaps stronger than
Kramnik against the ordinary granmasters, while Kramnik
is stronger than Morozevich against super-grandmasters.
The universal rating would have Morozevich ahead of
Kramnik, while the super-gm rating would have Kramnik
ahead of Morozevich. Let me add that in the addition
to the universal rating, there would be a class rating
for each parameter, i.e. a continuous spectru, of
ratings, but in practice you would use only ten of them
or so.
Furthermore, when you rate a game, the weight of the
game, as I ahve proposed, would depend on the "rusting
coefficient" of both players, and on the difference
between their skills. The more similar the opponents
the higher the weight of the game. This way flukes
would have less influence on the rating. Unestablished
(new or rusty) players would at first get more classified
among themselves than against the players with the solid,
presently established rating. Indeed, it's hard to tell
the meaning of a game, which involves a Lasker or
Botvinnik or Fischer or Kamsky, when they come back from
their consecutive retirmemnt. But the same goes for
ordinary players, e.g. for older players making
a comeback. The other end of this untried spectrum
are young, rapidly improving players.
> It would, perhaps be a good thing if sites chose
> dramatically different values for 1. and 2., so
> that ratings on different sites would be dramatically
> different.
That's artificial. let them do whatever they like.
However, I'd like to see some superb rating
agencies which would provide rating service for
sites and chess organizations (clubs too). You'd
higher one (or more) of them or not, it'd be up
to you. These agencies would do nothing but ratings
and rankings.
I would rank even all sports and activities together:
chessplayers and tennis players etc., so you'd say
that Kasparov was ahead of Agassi but not ahead of
Tiger, etc. It'd be a separate ranking/rating.
However, it's impossible to meaningfuly rank individuals
in the team sports. Playing for a good team, in a team
oriented way (as you should) can make your individual
stats worse than if you played for a weaker team
(not always, it's complicated). However in some stable
sports you may rank/rate the whole team just like
it were an individual: tennis pairs (doubles), bridge...
it is still ify, since some teams are stable and some
arfe not.
> That way, people wouldn't be tempted
> to try to compare their 1700 rating on
> one site with their 1400 rating on another.
I wish you to have no worse worries.
Best regards,
Wlod
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby Evil Happy Whisky (TM): it's like awww.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ single-malt whisky that makes your
> troubles melt away but it's genuinely
> evil!
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Date: 02 May 2008 00:19:20
From: ChessManiac.com
Subject: Re: ranking the CC chess sites
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On Apr 28, 3:53=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> hi all i'm looking to improve my game and my thoughts have always been
> that you wont get better unless you play better players than
> yourself. =A0i have been trying out several of the CC chess sites and
> was wondering how one would rank the following sites as to the
> strength of the competition. =A0i have my thoughts as to which one has
> the stronger players but would like the imput of others. =A0the sites
> i've tried out are as follows:
>
> gameknot
>
> redhotpawn
>
> schemingmind
>
> queenalice
>
> chesshere
>
> thanks again for all you imput
Try http://www.chessmaniac.com
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Date: 01 May 2008 13:20:31
From: Rob
Subject: Re: ranking the CC chess sites
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On Apr 28, 5:53=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> hi all i'm looking to improve my game and my thoughts have always been
> that you wont get better unless you play better players than
> yourself. =A0i have been trying out several of the CC chess sites and
> was wondering how one would rank the following sites as to the
> strength of the competition. =A0i have my thoughts as to which one has
> the stronger players but would like the imput of others. =A0the sites
> i've tried out are as follows:
>
> gameknot
>
> redhotpawn
>
> schemingmind
>
> queenalice
>
> chesshere
>
> thanks again for all you imput
chessworld.net
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Date: 01 May 2008 06:58:00
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ranking the CC chess sites
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I've heard very good things about Red Hot Pawn and understand the
competition can be good there. I have played a few times but I am a
weaker player and so don't reach the upper echelons of game play
there. The interface is nice and the price is typical.
I see Sanny misses no opportunity to promote GitClub, and if you wish
to waste your time and money, you should definitely play there.
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Date: 01 May 2008 03:46:00
From: RookHouse
Subject: Re: ranking the CC chess sites
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On Apr 28, 6:53=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> hi all i'm looking to improve my game and my thoughts have always been
> that you wont get better unless you play better players than
> yourself. =A0i have been trying out several of the CC chess sites and
> was wondering how one would rank the following sites as to the
> strength of the competition. =A0i have my thoughts as to which one has
> the stronger players but would like the imput of others. =A0the sites
> i've tried out are as follows:
>
> gameknot
>
> redhotpawn
>
> schemingmind
>
> queenalice
>
> chesshere
>
> thanks again for all you imput
I've only played on GameKnot, so that is the only one that I can speak
to.
I've played 287 games over the last few years on there and have a 1724
rating. Just to correlate that figure for you a little bit, I am
definitely NOT a 1724 player. I've had a National Master play through
my games and he evaluated me to be about a 1400 caliber of player.
It's a great site, but I doubt that it is one of the stronger sites in
regard to competition.
Hope that helps.
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Date: 01 May 2008 15:13:05
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: ranking the CC chess sites
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RookHouse <[email protected] > wrote:
> I've only played on GameKnot, so that is the only one that I can
> speak to.
>
> I've played 287 games over the last few years on there and have a
> 1724 rating. Just to correlate that figure for you a little bit, I
> am definitely NOT a 1724 player. I've had a National Master play
> through my games and he evaluated me to be about a 1400 caliber of
> player.
That tells you nothing about the strength of the players at GameKnot.
It just suggests that ratings at that site are bigger numbers than
USCF ratings. The rating system only looks at the difference between
ratings so GameKnot could subtract 324 from everyone's rating tonight
(or add 1000 or 1000000) without making any substantive difference to
anything.
Elo-style rating systems are essentially defined by three constants:
1. the rating of an `average' player;
2. the rating difference corresponding to a given expected score; and
3. `k', which governs how quickly ratings change.
It would, perhaps be a good thing if sites chose dramatically
different values for 1. and 2., so that ratings on different sites
would be dramatically different. That way, people wouldn't be tempted
to try to compare their 1700 rating on one site with their 1400 rating
on another.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Evil Happy Whisky (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ single-malt whisky that makes your
troubles melt away but it's genuinely
evil!
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Date: 28 Apr 2008 23:24:25
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: ranking the CC chess sites
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On Apr 29, 3:53=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
> hi all i'm looking to improve my game and my thoughts have always been
> that you wont get better unless you play better players than
> yourself. =A0i have been trying out several of the CC chess sites and
> was wondering how one would rank the following sites as to the
> strength of the competition. =A0i have my thoughts as to which one has
> the stronger players but would like the imput of others. =A0the sites
> i've tried out are as follows:
Have you ever tried GetClub Chess.
It has 5 Levels of Games depending on your Playing Strength
Beginner: 1800
Easy: 1900
Normal: 2000
Master: 2100
Advance: 2200
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
You can play both with Computer Levels and Human Opponents Its free to
start with.
More that 2000 Games have been played at GetClub Chess and your games
are recorded and good players can give comments on each game you play
at GetClub Chess.
300 Players have played at GetClub Join it and take a ride at GetClub
Chess.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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