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Main
Date: 21 Nov 2008 14:13:52
From: Offramp
Subject: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
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The best chess book ever would be the games of Bobby Fischer from the
USSR-RoW match in 1970 until the end of September 1972. (The last 21
games are a bit substandard but they would have to be included.)
All the game shave been annotated already so it just takes someone
with hutzpah to sellotape them all together and make a $$$MILLION=A3=A3=A3=
=A3=A3=A3
=A3%%$=A3$$$$$=A3$$!!!!!
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Date: 06 Dec 2008 08:35:04
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
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On Dec 5, 7:57=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> =A0 Alan, as you may have noticed by now, help-bot's MO is to disparage
> pretty much *everyone* in highly derogatory terms, whether he knows
> what he's talking about or not (and he seldom if ever does).
Doctor, heal thyself! LOL
-- help bot
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Date: 06 Dec 2008 08:33:36
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Dec 5, 6:45=A0pm, Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
> > On Dec 5, 2:11=A0pm, chessparrot <[email protected]> wrote:
> > =A0 Anyway, if you carefully examine the record
> > regarding the MSMG fiasco, you will find that
> > Mr. Nunn was no different from, say, Mr. Keene
> > or other scum in the way they all responded to
> > inquiries.
> IMO Dr Nunn is not "scum".
Indeed, once you learn how to read, you may
then be able to discern that I was describing
the way in which these folks responded to
inquiries-- not making an overall assessment
of them as human beings (although in the
case of Mr. Keene, this may be a moot point).
Another idea is that Dr. Nunn was so utterly
clueless that he really and truly had no idea
of what went wrong, or who might be
responsible. In this scenario, what is needed
is to assign someone a bit smarter to run the
show-- say, a Dr. IMnes or a Sanny.
But I'm sticking with the first scenario-- the
one in which the Nunn team were all acting like
politicians (or scum), refusing to take the
responsibility for their actions. It just seems to
click.
-- help bot
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Date: 06 Dec 2008 06:23:08
From:
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Dec 5, 2:54=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Dec 5, 2:11=A0pm, chessparrot <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 23, 5:15=A0am, help bot <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 22, 10:08=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > > > But you could use annotations that were over 70 years old.
> > > > =A0 Um, not until at least the year 2040, unless someone somehow
> > > > (Nostradamus maybe?) managed to annotate Fischer's games from 1970-=
72
> > > > decades before they were played.
>
> > > =A0 Don't forget that many so-called scientists believe
> > > in the idea that time is something one can play with,
> > > much like a child's toy. =A0 Hence, the year 2040 may
> > > appear to be somewhere off in the future to us, but
> > > to someone in a different frame of reference, it may
> > > be in the distant past.
>
> > > > =A0 Some books already published come close to what you propose. "B=
oth
> > > > Sides of the Chessboard" by Robert Byrne and Ivo Nei annotated all =
of
> > > > Fischer's 1971-72 match games vs. Taimanov, Larsen, Petrosian and
> > > > Spassky. "Russians versus Fischer" by Dmitry Plisetsky and Sergey
> > > > Voronkov has all of Fischer's serious games against Soviet players,
> > > > starting with the 1958 Interzonal and ending with the second Spassk=
y
> > > > match in 1992.
>
> > > =A0 =A0In 1992 Mr. Spassky was a Frenchman. =A0He
> > > drank wine, not vodka; he was no longer a
> > > serious threat in chess (what more proof do
> > > you want?); and he even lived in France-- a
> > > dead giveaway.
> > > =A0 Anyway, after 1992 Mr. Fischer was no longer
> > > an American; he became what we here like to
> > > called one of those "damned foreigners". =A0This
> > > was all predicted by Nostradamus-- you just
> > > have to read between the lines.
>
> > > =A0 -- help bot
>
> > John Nunn is a man of the highest principle. There is no higher. I
> > have looked through the new (2008) 'My Sixty Memorable Games' which
> > Batsford have just published and it is identical, save for notation,
> > to be 1969 Faber edition. Every page is the same length. Unlike the
> > paperback published in the 70s/80s by Faber, it has generous margins,
> > enhancing the layout.
>
> =A0 I respect Nunn as well, but it wasn't the 2008 edition that drew
> Fischer's ire, it was the 1996 edition, in which Nunn had some part:
>
> =A0http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/fischer.html
>
> > When Fischer wrote his book he did it on tape, Evans transcribed. What
> > was originally published had grey areas or lose ends - for example the
> > Accelerated Dragon not called The Hyper-Accelerated or whatever,
>
> =A0 What game in M60MG qualifies as a hyper-accelerated Dragon? I can't
> find one. The closest is game 26, Fischer-Reshevsky, 2nd match game
> 1961. But since that opens 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 (and not 2...g6) 3.d4
> cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6, it's just a normal Accelerated Dragon, not hyper-
> accelerated. It's just classed as "Sicilian Defense" in my 1968
> edition, though Fischer uses the term "accelerated fianchetto" in a
> note to White's 8th move.
>
> > =A0or
> > slang that was not clear to English eyes (what was Sherwin's pinkie? I
> > bet you know!).
>
> =A0 You would be referring to 7...Rb8 in the book's first game, Fischer-
> Sherwin, New Jersey Open, 1957. Fischer wrote "Sherwin slid the Rook
> here with his pinky, as if to emphasize the cunning of this mysterious
> move." Brits don't use "pinky" or "pinkie" to mean the little finger?
>
> > If the Holy Bible can be rewritten, then so can chess
> > books.
>
> =A0 Having just edited a slightly revised version of Lasker's Manual of
> Chess, I cannot but agree with you. However, the point of rewriting,
> IMO, is to improve accuracy. In fact, the 1996 Batsfor edition of
> M60MG added mistakes rather than eliminate them.
>
> > Batsfords had done rewrites before, this was nothing new, but
> > Fischer's reaction was what got publicity, not really the act of
> > transformation by the English publisher.
>
> =A0 Check the link above for a different view.
More from Winter on the 2008 edition of M60MG:
http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/index.html#5883._My_60_Memorable_Games
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Date: 06 Dec 2008 01:06:29
From: chessparrot
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Dec 6, 12:57=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Dec 5, 6:45=A0pm, Offramp <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 5, 11:11=A0pm, help bot <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 5, 2:11=A0pm, chessparrot <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > =A0 Anyway, if you carefully examine the record
> > > regarding the MSMG fiasco, you will find that
> > > Mr. Nunn was no different from, say, Mr. Keene
> > > or other scum in the way they all responded to
> > > inquiries.
>
> > IMO Dr Nunn is not "scum".
>
> =A0 Alan, as you may have noticed by now, help-bot's MO is to disparage
> pretty much *everyone* in highly derogatory terms, whether he knows
> what he's talking about or not (and he seldom if ever does). Thus,
> anyone he decides to disagree with (and he is nothing if not
> disagreeable), whether it's you, me, Parr, Innes, Blair, Brennan,
> Evans, Keene, Nunn, Elo, Lasker, Winter, Maimonides, Grunthos, Britney
> Spears or Duns Scotus, might be "scum" when and if he finds such a
> label expedient. He is a crank, an attention-seeker like Sloan, an
> incorrigible troll, unworthy of serious attention. I have tried now
> and then, but to no avail.
the new (2008) cover, not the Faber edition. There is no similarity
between Nunn and Keene. Fischer was so ill everything might have
offended him. He attacked Winter, which was ridiculous. Winter found
500 changes and listed them. All books have changes undertaken by
publishers, all books. Winter knows this.
James Pratt (Basingstoke!)
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Date: 05 Dec 2008 16:57:29
From:
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Dec 5, 6:45=A0pm, Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Dec 5, 11:11=A0pm, help bot <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 5, 2:11=A0pm, chessparrot <[email protected]> wrote:
> > =A0 Anyway, if you carefully examine the record
> > regarding the MSMG fiasco, you will find that
> > Mr. Nunn was no different from, say, Mr. Keene
> > or other scum in the way they all responded to
> > inquiries.
>
> IMO Dr Nunn is not "scum".
Alan, as you may have noticed by now, help-bot's MO is to disparage
pretty much *everyone* in highly derogatory terms, whether he knows
what he's talking about or not (and he seldom if ever does). Thus,
anyone he decides to disagree with (and he is nothing if not
disagreeable), whether it's you, me, Parr, Innes, Blair, Brennan,
Evans, Keene, Nunn, Elo, Lasker, Winter, Maimonides, Grunthos, Britney
Spears or Duns Scotus, might be "scum" when and if he finds such a
label expedient. He is a crank, an attention-seeker like Sloan, an
incorrigible troll, unworthy of serious attention. I have tried now
and then, but to no avail.
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Date: 05 Dec 2008 15:45:54
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Dec 5, 11:11=A0pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Dec 5, 2:11=A0pm, chessparrot <[email protected]> wrote:
> =A0 Anyway, if you carefully examine the record
> regarding the MSMG fiasco, you will find that
> Mr. Nunn was no different from, say, Mr. Keene
> or other scum in the way they all responded to
> inquiries.
IMO Dr Nunn is not "scum".
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Date: 05 Dec 2008 15:11:25
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Dec 5, 2:11=A0pm, chessparrot <[email protected] > wrote:
> John Nunn is a man of the highest principle. There is no higher.
Look you, what about the Budda? Or that
guy from Nazareth? Or even the legendary
Sir Lancelot? Ghandi?
Anyway, if you carefully examine the record
regarding the MSMG fiasco, you will find that
Mr. Nunn was no different from, say, Mr. Keene
or other scum in the way they all responded to
inquiries. It reminded me of our "beloved"
government in the way the buck was passed,
excuses made, no responsibility accepted.
Indeed, there does seem to be a principle at
work here-- the principle of CYOA. LOL!
> I have looked through the new (2008) 'My Sixty Memorable Games' which
> Batsford have just published and it is identical, save for notation,
> to be 1969 Faber edition. Every page is the same length. Unlike the
> paperback published in the 70s/80s by Faber, it has generous margins,
> enhancing the layout.
This would seem to be a clear-cut refutation
of the lies told by the Nunn team, for they had
claimed they /had to/ chop the text to pieces.
Not to say the claim was not self-evidently a
lie.
> When Fischer wrote his book he did it on tape, Evans transcribed. What
> was originally published had grey areas or lose ends - for example the
> Accelerated Dragon not called The Hyper-Accelerated or whatever, or
> slang that was not clear to English eyes (what was Sherwin's pinkie? I
> bet you know!). If the Holy Bible can be rewritten, then so can chess
> books.
Hmm. The key difference seems to be that
the authors of one compendium are all dead,
and can no longer complain. It was BF himself
who raised a stink about his/Evans' book being
hacked up by the Nunn team.
> Batsfords had done rewrites before, this was nothing new, but
> Fischer's reaction was what got publicity, not really the act of
> transformation by the English publisher.
Yes, Mr. Fischer's reaction is what drew
widespread attention. But upon careful
review by The Great Pedant, it was shown
that the Nunn team had effectively botched
what ought to have been a very simple
task-- converting descriptive notation to
algebraic. The fact that it required an
entire "team" of hacks to accomplish this
feat is simply astounding.
> A new topic is whether the Fischer Estate gave permission for
> Batsfords to rewrite. I welcome the new book only the cover design
> needs redoing. It looks like bullet holes from a M.A.S.H. logo.
Maybe my memory fails me, but I seem
to recall that the Faber edition was simply
black, with maybe a rectangle in the middle
containing the title and author's name.
What we need is government regulation
of chess book publishing; there would be
strict limits on typos and diagram errors,
and repeat-offenders would be sanctioned,
fined and then subjected to public
humiliation (no, wait; that's already been
tried, and seems to have had no effect).
-- help bot
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Date: 05 Dec 2008 11:54:48
From:
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Dec 5, 2:11=A0pm, chessparrot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Nov 23, 5:15=A0am, help bot <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 22, 10:08=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > > But you could use annotations that were over 70 years old.
> > > =A0 Um, not until at least the year 2040, unless someone somehow
> > > (Nostradamus maybe?) managed to annotate Fischer's games from 1970-72
> > > decades before they were played.
>
> > =A0 Don't forget that many so-called scientists believe
> > in the idea that time is something one can play with,
> > much like a child's toy. =A0 Hence, the year 2040 may
> > appear to be somewhere off in the future to us, but
> > to someone in a different frame of reference, it may
> > be in the distant past.
>
> > > =A0 Some books already published come close to what you propose. "Bot=
h
> > > Sides of the Chessboard" by Robert Byrne and Ivo Nei annotated all of
> > > Fischer's 1971-72 match games vs. Taimanov, Larsen, Petrosian and
> > > Spassky. "Russians versus Fischer" by Dmitry Plisetsky and Sergey
> > > Voronkov has all of Fischer's serious games against Soviet players,
> > > starting with the 1958 Interzonal and ending with the second Spassky
> > > match in 1992.
>
> > =A0 =A0In 1992 Mr. Spassky was a Frenchman. =A0He
> > drank wine, not vodka; he was no longer a
> > serious threat in chess (what more proof do
> > you want?); and he even lived in France-- a
> > dead giveaway.
> > =A0 Anyway, after 1992 Mr. Fischer was no longer
> > an American; he became what we here like to
> > called one of those "damned foreigners". =A0This
> > was all predicted by Nostradamus-- you just
> > have to read between the lines.
>
> > =A0 -- help bot
>
> John Nunn is a man of the highest principle. There is no higher. I
> have looked through the new (2008) 'My Sixty Memorable Games' which
> Batsford have just published and it is identical, save for notation,
> to be 1969 Faber edition. Every page is the same length. Unlike the
> paperback published in the 70s/80s by Faber, it has generous margins,
> enhancing the layout.
I respect Nunn as well, but it wasn't the 2008 edition that drew
Fischer's ire, it was the 1996 edition, in which Nunn had some part:
http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/fischer.html
> When Fischer wrote his book he did it on tape, Evans transcribed. What
> was originally published had grey areas or lose ends - for example the
> Accelerated Dragon not called The Hyper-Accelerated or whatever,
What game in M60MG qualifies as a hyper-accelerated Dragon? I can't
find one. The closest is game 26, Fischer-Reshevsky, 2nd match game
1961. But since that opens 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 (and not 2...g6) 3.d4
cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6, it's just a normal Accelerated Dragon, not hyper-
accelerated. It's just classed as "Sicilian Defense" in my 1968
edition, though Fischer uses the term "accelerated fianchetto" in a
note to White's 8th move.
> or
> slang that was not clear to English eyes (what was Sherwin's pinkie? I
> bet you know!).
You would be referring to 7...Rb8 in the book's first game, Fischer-
Sherwin, New Jersey Open, 1957. Fischer wrote "Sherwin slid the Rook
here with his pinky, as if to emphasize the cunning of this mysterious
move." Brits don't use "pinky" or "pinkie" to mean the little finger?
> If the Holy Bible can be rewritten, then so can chess
> books.
Having just edited a slightly revised version of Lasker's Manual of
Chess, I cannot but agree with you. However, the point of rewriting,
IMO, is to improve accuracy. In fact, the 1996 Batsfor edition of
M60MG added mistakes rather than eliminate them.
> Batsfords had done rewrites before, this was nothing new, but
> Fischer's reaction was what got publicity, not really the act of
> transformation by the English publisher.
Check the link above for a different view.
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Date: 05 Dec 2008 11:11:33
From: chessparrot
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Nov 23, 5:15=A0am, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Nov 22, 10:08=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > But you could use annotations that were over 70 years old.
> > =A0 Um, not until at least the year 2040, unless someone somehow
> > (Nostradamus maybe?) managed to annotate Fischer's games from 1970-72
> > decades before they were played.
>
> =A0 Don't forget that many so-called scientists believe
> in the idea that time is something one can play with,
> much like a child's toy. =A0 Hence, the year 2040 may
> appear to be somewhere off in the future to us, but
> to someone in a different frame of reference, it may
> be in the distant past.
>
> > =A0 Some books already published come close to what you propose. "Both
> > Sides of the Chessboard" by Robert Byrne and Ivo Nei annotated all of
> > Fischer's 1971-72 match games vs. Taimanov, Larsen, Petrosian and
> > Spassky. "Russians versus Fischer" by Dmitry Plisetsky and Sergey
> > Voronkov has all of Fischer's serious games against Soviet players,
> > starting with the 1958 Interzonal and ending with the second Spassky
> > match in 1992.
>
> =A0 =A0In 1992 Mr. Spassky was a Frenchman. =A0He
> drank wine, not vodka; he was no longer a
> serious threat in chess (what more proof do
> you want?); and he even lived in France-- a
> dead giveaway.
> =A0 Anyway, after 1992 Mr. Fischer was no longer
> an American; he became what we here like to
> called one of those "damned foreigners". =A0This
> was all predicted by Nostradamus-- you just
> have to read between the lines.
>
> =A0 -- help bot
John Nunn is a man of the highest principle. There is no higher. I
have looked through the new (2008) 'My Sixty Memorable Games' which
Batsford have just published and it is identical, save for notation,
to be 1969 Faber edition. Every page is the same length. Unlike the
paperback published in the 70s/80s by Faber, it has generous margins,
enhancing the layout.
When Fischer wrote his book he did it on tape, Evans transcribed. What
was originally published had grey areas or lose ends - for example the
Accelerated Dragon not called The Hyper-Accelerated or whatever, or
slang that was not clear to English eyes (what was Sherwin's pinkie? I
bet you know!). If the Holy Bible can be rewritten, then so can chess
books.
Batsfords had done rewrites before, this was nothing new, but
Fischer's reaction was what got publicity, not really the act of
transformation by the English publisher.
.....................
A new topic is whether the Fischer Estate gave permission for
Batsfords to rewrite. I welcome the new book only the cover design
needs redoing. It looks like bullet holes from a M.A.S.H. logo.
James Pratt (Basingstoke!)
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Date: 22 Nov 2008 21:15:02
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Nov 22, 10:08=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
> > But you could use annotations that were over 70 years old.
> =A0 Um, not until at least the year 2040, unless someone somehow
> (Nostradamus maybe?) managed to annotate Fischer's games from 1970-72
> decades before they were played.
Don't forget that many so-called scientists believe
in the idea that time is something one can play with,
much like a child's toy. Hence, the year 2040 may
appear to be somewhere off in the future to us, but
to someone in a different frame of reference, it may
be in the distant past.
> =A0 Some books already published come close to what you propose. "Both
> Sides of the Chessboard" by Robert Byrne and Ivo Nei annotated all of
> Fischer's 1971-72 match games vs. Taimanov, Larsen, Petrosian and
> Spassky. "Russians versus Fischer" by Dmitry Plisetsky and Sergey
> Voronkov has all of Fischer's serious games against Soviet players,
> starting with the 1958 Interzonal and ending with the second Spassky
> match in 1992.
In 1992 Mr. Spassky was a Frenchman. He
drank wine, not vodka; he was no longer a
serious threat in chess (what more proof do
you want?); and he even lived in France-- a
dead giveaway.
Anyway, after 1992 Mr. Fischer was no longer
an American; he became what we here like to
called one of those "damned foreigners". This
was all predicted by Nostradamus-- you just
have to read between the lines.
-- help bot
|
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Date: 22 Nov 2008 20:56:32
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Nov 22, 9:49=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected] > wrote:
> An article about books (including forgeries) written by Bobby Fischer
> by GM Larry Evans is scheduled to appear in an upcoming issue of the
> British magazine CHESS.
> Here is a snippet:
>
> =A0"Batsford issued an algebraic edition of 60 MEMOORABLE GAMES
Please forward this tiny, miniscule constructive
criticism to Mr. Evans: instead of vainly attempting
to spell tough words like "memoorable", just fake
it by using the shorthand "MSMG"; another idea is
to hire a competent proofreader to parse the text
before going to print (think Louis Blair, not Dr.
IMnes).
> in 1995 with numerous unauthorized changes by British GM John Nunn that
> enraged Fischer. For example, pages listed in the table of contents
> didn't even match the actual games!
> Batsford made amends in this new 2008 reprint by restoring the
> original text. Mercifully, no changes were made except to correct some
> typos."
But what about the *algebraic* edition we were
talking about here? Translating from descriptive
into algebraic is not the same as "correcting
typos", and indeed, often leads to numerous
mistakes by the hacks who predominate in the
chess publishing business.
Personally, I find it a bit odd that I heard little or
nothing of the grotesque errors by JN & Co. until
Bobby Fischer himself made a stink about it. I
am left wondering just how reliable were the
many reports regarding the high quality of JN's
other books; perhaps he was so popular in part
due to a heavy focus on the most popular chess
openings, not impeccable quality?
Perhaps this particular sort of work is better left
to the pedants of the chess world, not the grand-
masters.
-- help bot
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Date: 22 Nov 2008 09:16:30
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
THE TWO BATSFORD EDITIONS
In some cases, didn't they actually change the text to make the line
endings fit and economize on pagination? -- Mike Murray
The algebraic version by GM John Nunn in 1995 was 240 pages.
The 2008 Batsford reprint is 384 pages, identical to the original in
1969.
Mike Murray wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 06:49:53 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >FISCHER'S BOOKS
> >
> >An article about books (including forgeries) written by Bobby Fischer
> >by GM Larry Evans is scheduled to appear in an upcoming issue of the
> >British magazine CHESS.
> >Here is a snippet:
> >
> > "Batsford issued an algebraic edition of 60 MEMOORABLE GAMES in
> >1995 with numerous unauthorized changes by British GM John Nunn that
> >enraged Fischer...
>
> In some cases, didn't they actually change the text to make the line
> endings fit and economize on pagination ?
|
| |
Date: 22 Nov 2008 07:08:56
From:
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Nov 22, 2:26=A0am, Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Nov 21, 11:13 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Offramp wrote:
> > > The best chess book ever would be the games of Bobby Fischer from the
> > > USSR-RoW match in 1970 until the end of September 1972.
That would include the following events:
USSR vs. Rest of World team match, Belgrade, March-April 1970
"World Blitz Championship" tournament, Herceg Novi, April 1970
Rovinj-Zagreb tournament, April-May 1970
Buenos Aires tournament, July-August 1970
19th FIDE Olympiad, Siegen, September 1970
FIDE Interzonal tournament, Palma de Mallorca, November-December 1970
Candidates Match vs. Taimanov, Vancouver, May-June 1971
Candidates Match vs. Larsen, Denver, July 1971
Candidates Match vs. Petrosian, Buenos Aires, September-October 1971
World Championship Match vs. Spassky, Reykjavik, July-September 1972
> (The last 21
> > > games are a bit substandard but they would have to be included.)
Ah, we must have our little joke. ;-)
> > > All the game shave been annotated already so it just takes someone
> > > with hutzpah to sellotape them all together and make a $$$MILLION
> > > %%$ $$$$$ $$!!!!!
>
> > The games, many with notes, are available in, e.g. "The Games of
> > Robert J. Fischer." As for copying and reprinting the annotations,
> > there's a law against it. Annotations, unlike game scores, are subject
> > to copyright.
>
> But you could use annotations that were over 70 years old.
Um, not until at least the year 2040, unless someone somehow
(Nostradamus maybe?) managed to annotate Fischer's games from 1970-72
decades before they were played.
Some books already published come close to what you propose. "Both
Sides of the Chessboard" by Robert Byrne and Ivo Nei annotated all of
Fischer's 1971-72 match games vs. Taimanov, Larsen, Petrosian and
Spassky. "Russians versus Fischer" by Dmitry Plisetsky and Sergey
Voronkov has all of Fischer's serious games against Soviet players,
starting with the 1958 Interzonal and ending with the second Spassky
match in 1992.
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Date: 22 Nov 2008 06:49:53
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
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FISCHER'S BOOKS
An article about books (including forgeries) written by Bobby Fischer
by GM Larry Evans is scheduled to appear in an upcoming issue of the
British magazine CHESS.
Here is a snippet:
"Batsford issued an algebraic edition of 60 MEMOORABLE GAMES in
1995 with numerous unauthorized changes by British GM John Nunn that
enraged Fischer. For example, pages listed in the table of contents
didn't even match the actual games!
Batsford made amends in this new 2008 reprint by restoring the
original text. Mercifully, no changes were made except to correct some
typos."
[email protected] wrote:
> help bot wrote:
> > On Nov 21, 6:13?pm, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > > > All the game shave been annotated already so it just takes someone
> > > > with hutzpah to sellotape them all together and make a $$$MILLION
> > > > %%$ $$$$$ $$!!!!!
> >
> > > The games, many with notes, are available in, e.g. "The Games of
> > > Robert J. Fischer." As for copying and reprinting the annotations,
> > > there's a law against it. Annotations, unlike game scores, are subject
> > > to copyright.
> >
> >
> > Somebody is obviously unfamiliar with the
> > history of chess publishing. The fact is, Dr.
> > Nunn and company took Mr. Fischer's own
> > annotations along with his game-collection
> > from the book MSMG, and hacked it all to
> > pieces, printing and distributing the slop.
> >
> > The long arm of the law was of no avail to
> > stop these (utterly incompetent) pirates, so
> > why worry about a chap who wishes to
> > "sellotape" together an original games
> > collection from 1970-1972? Besides, if
> > the law wanted to go after him, he would
> > already have been nailed for trolling by the
> > Net police.
> >
> > Although the details are a bit foggy, I can
> > still recall a plethora of articles in which
> > various plagiarists plied their trade. Even
> > the most successful of all hacks in the
> > world of chess, Mr. Keene, was caught
> > red-handed by his nemesis, Mr. Winter,
> > among others. Do such men land in
> > jail? Of course not! Instead, they are
> > likely to flourish, for it is ever so much
> > easier to copy, cut and paste than to
> > create original material by the sweat of
> > one's brow. Indeed, the *quantity* of
> > such output results in a certain name-
> > recognition, which in turn correlates to
> > higher sales.
> >
> > But a word of warning: most people
> > who frequent bookstores will be repelled
> > by the sight of a volume that is taped
> > together, rather than bound. My advice
> > would be to forget about "sellotape" as
> > a binding method, and go with Elmer's
> > Ultimate glue, reinforced with crome-
> > plated high-carbon steel. And make
> > sure you check for diagram errors--
> > there is nothing more annoying than
> > to try and solve a tactical problem only
> > to find the diagram is as poorly done as
> > the text and annotations. Heck, just
> > take polaroids of the correct positions
> > and glue them onto the pages.
> >
> >
> > -- help bot
>
>
> Someone is obviously unfamiliar with the nature of copyright law. U.S.
> law treats copyright as a civil matter, based on property rights. If
> you violate copyright, someone with standing has to sue you, and the
> resolution (assuming you win) is going to be monetary damages, not
> jail. Matters my be different in some parts of the EU (legacy of
> Victor Hugo and the Berne Convention), but who cares what those people
> do?
>
> I assume the Nunn reference is to his version of Fischer's _60
> Memorable Games_. I agree that what Nunn did was reprehensible, but
> not because of copyright violation. Fischer pretty clearly did not own
> the rights, and had no _legal_ basis on which to object. He certainly
> had the moral right to complain that Nunn did a lousy job -- and I
> agree with him. The 2008 Batsford edition is supposed to follow
> Fischer's original text, though I haven't seen it.
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Date: 22 Nov 2008 08:48:26
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 06:49:53 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected] > wrote:
>FISCHER'S BOOKS
>
>An article about books (including forgeries) written by Bobby Fischer
>by GM Larry Evans is scheduled to appear in an upcoming issue of the
>British magazine CHESS.
>Here is a snippet:
>
> "Batsford issued an algebraic edition of 60 MEMOORABLE GAMES in
>1995 with numerous unauthorized changes by British GM John Nunn that
>enraged Fischer...
In some cases, didn't they actually change the text to make the line
endings fit and economize on pagination ?
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Date: 22 Nov 2008 03:03:36
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Nov 22, 5:25=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
> Someone is obviously unfamiliar with the nature of copyright law. U.S.
> law treats copyright as a civil matter, based on property rights. If
> you violate copyright, someone with standing has to sue you
Whoa there, Nellie. FYI: Bobby Fischer is dead.
If Larry Evans holds the copyright, he failed to act
when given the chance before (with Dr. Nunn and
his fellow pirates), and if /someone else/ has the
rights, then they failed to act. This Bozo with his
cellophane special-edition is essentially immune,
because he ain't makin' any money with his crazy
scheme.
> and the resolution (assuming you win) =A0is going to be monetary damages,=
not
> jail. Matters my be different in some parts of the EU (legacy of
> Victor Hugo and the Berne Convention), but who cares what those people
> do?
Nobody! As my old pal Mr. Bush made crystal
clear, if they don't get on board, they are simply
irrelevant. Don't make him have to go before
the U.N. to explain all this again-- he may get
mad and (gulp) do something rash, like maybe
invading St. Kitts and Nevis.
> I assume the Nunn reference is to his version of Fischer's _60
> Memorable Games_. I agree that what Nunn did was reprehensible, but
> not because of copyright violation.
Well, my point obviously was that he was not
constrained by the law, so worrying about the
"long arm" reaching out to pluck a wannabee
glue-freak from thin air is just plain silly.
> Fischer pretty clearly did not own
> the rights, and had no _legal_ basis on which to object.
Someone should inform Dr. Nunn's "team",
for his organization offered to send BF money,
and I'm betting it wasn't hush money. Is it
possible that despite having the legal rights
to publication, JN & Co. voluntarily offered up
cash just to appease BF and to shut him up?
What a crazy idea, since he never did (shut
up, that is)!
> He certainly
> had the moral right to complain that Nunn did a lousy job -- and I
> agree with him. The 2008 Batsford edition is supposed to follow
> Fischer's original text, though I haven't seen it
I've seen an ad somewhere for an algebraic
edition, which seemed odd in view of what
happenned when the ever-popular Dr. Nunn
butchered his last attempt. You know what's
funny? I know a guy who was maybe a Class
D player, who could have single-handedly
done a much, much better job than what was
widely reviewed as butchery by the A-Team
led by JN. Whatever drugs they were on, I
hope they ran out... .
To sum up: it's not just about technical
knowledge of the law. It's about knowing
the history of chess-- in this case, what
has happenned in the crazy world of chess
publishing. Even with Ace reporter Sam
Sloan on watch, not one person that I know
of has been nabbed by the long arm of the
law, despite *numerous* cases of blatant
plagiarism in chess. Many of these have
been meticulously documented by pedants
like Mr. Winter, but the scoundrels seem
undeterred, to say the least. Criminal or
civil, this law has no real teeth in practice.
-- help bot
|
| |
Date: 22 Nov 2008 02:25:32
From:
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
help bot wrote:
> On Nov 21, 6:13=EF=BF=BDpm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > All the game shave been annotated already so it just takes someone
> > > with hutzpah to sellotape them all together and make a $$$MILLION
> > > %%$ $$$$$ $$!!!!!
>
> > The games, many with notes, are available in, e.g. "The Games of
> > Robert J. Fischer." As for copying and reprinting the annotations,
> > there's a law against it. Annotations, unlike game scores, are subject
> > to copyright.
>
>
> Somebody is obviously unfamiliar with the
> history of chess publishing. The fact is, Dr.
> Nunn and company took Mr. Fischer's own
> annotations along with his game-collection
> from the book MSMG, and hacked it all to
> pieces, printing and distributing the slop.
>
> The long arm of the law was of no avail to
> stop these (utterly incompetent) pirates, so
> why worry about a chap who wishes to
> "sellotape" together an original games
> collection from 1970-1972? Besides, if
> the law wanted to go after him, he would
> already have been nailed for trolling by the
> Net police.
>
> Although the details are a bit foggy, I can
> still recall a plethora of articles in which
> various plagiarists plied their trade. Even
> the most successful of all hacks in the
> world of chess, Mr. Keene, was caught
> red-handed by his nemesis, Mr. Winter,
> among others. Do such men land in
> jail? Of course not! Instead, they are
> likely to flourish, for it is ever so much
> easier to copy, cut and paste than to
> create original material by the sweat of
> one's brow. Indeed, the *quantity* of
> such output results in a certain name-
> recognition, which in turn correlates to
> higher sales.
>
> But a word of warning: most people
> who frequent bookstores will be repelled
> by the sight of a volume that is taped
> together, rather than bound. My advice
> would be to forget about "sellotape" as
> a binding method, and go with Elmer's
> Ultimate glue, reinforced with crome-
> plated high-carbon steel. And make
> sure you check for diagram errors--
> there is nothing more annoying than
> to try and solve a tactical problem only
> to find the diagram is as poorly done as
> the text and annotations. Heck, just
> take polaroids of the correct positions
> and glue them onto the pages.
>
>
> -- help bot
Someone is obviously unfamiliar with the nature of copyright law. U.S.
law treats copyright as a civil matter, based on property rights. If
you violate copyright, someone with standing has to sue you, and the
resolution (assuming you win) is going to be monetary damages, not
jail. Matters my be different in some parts of the EU (legacy of
Victor Hugo and the Berne Convention), but who cares what those people
do?
I assume the Nunn reference is to his version of Fischer's _60
Memorable Games_. I agree that what Nunn did was reprehensible, but
not because of copyright violation. Fischer pretty clearly did not own
the rights, and had no _legal_ basis on which to object. He certainly
had the moral right to complain that Nunn did a lousy job -- and I
agree with him. The 2008 Batsford edition is supposed to follow
Fischer's original text, though I haven't seen it.
|
| |
Date: 21 Nov 2008 23:49:22
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Nov 21, 6:13=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> > All the game shave been annotated already so it just takes someone
> > with hutzpah to sellotape them all together and make a $$$MILLION
> > %%$ $$$$$ $$!!!!!
> The games, many with notes, are available in, e.g. "The Games of
> Robert J. Fischer." As for copying and reprinting the annotations,
> there's a law against it. Annotations, unlike game scores, are subject
> to copyright.
Somebody is obviously unfamiliar with the
history of chess publishing. The fact is, Dr.
Nunn and company took Mr. Fischer's own
annotations along with his game-collection
from the book MSMG, and hacked it all to
pieces, printing and distributing the slop.
The long arm of the law was of no avail to
stop these (utterly incompetent) pirates, so
why worry about a chap who wishes to
"sellotape" together an original games
collection from 1970-1972? Besides, if
the law wanted to go after him, he would
already have been nailed for trolling by the
Net police.
Although the details are a bit foggy, I can
still recall a plethora of articles in which
various plagiarists plied their trade. Even
the most successful of all hacks in the
world of chess, Mr. Keene, was caught
red-handed by his nemesis, Mr. Winter,
among others. Do such men land in
jail? Of course not! Instead, they are
likely to flourish, for it is ever so much
easier to copy, cut and paste than to
create original material by the sweat of
one's brow. Indeed, the *quantity* of
such output results in a certain name-
recognition, which in turn correlates to
higher sales.
But a word of warning: most people
who frequent bookstores will be repelled
by the sight of a volume that is taped
together, rather than bound. My advice
would be to forget about "sellotape" as
a binding method, and go with Elmer's
Ultimate glue, reinforced with crome-
plated high-carbon steel. And make
sure you check for diagram errors--
there is nothing more annoying than
to try and solve a tactical problem only
to find the diagram is as poorly done as
the text and annotations. Heck, just
take polaroids of the correct positions
and glue them onto the pages.
-- help bot
|
| |
Date: 21 Nov 2008 23:26:48
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
On Nov 21, 11:13 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> Offramp wrote:
> > The best chess book ever would be the games of Bobby Fischer from the
> > USSR-RoW match in 1970 until the end of September 1972. (The last 21
> > games are a bit substandard but they would have to be included.)
>
> > All the game shave been annotated already so it just takes someone
> > with hutzpah to sellotape them all together and make a $$$MILLION
> > %%$ $$$$$ $$!!!!!
>
> The games, many with notes, are available in, e.g. "The Games of
> Robert J. Fischer." As for copying and reprinting the annotations,
> there's a law against it. Annotations, unlike game scores, are subject
> to copyright.
But you could use annotations that were over 70 years old.
|
| |
Date: 21 Nov 2008 15:13:55
From:
Subject: Re: Who wants to write the best chess book EVER??
|
Offramp wrote:
> The best chess book ever would be the games of Bobby Fischer from the
> USSR-RoW match in 1970 until the end of September 1972. (The last 21
> games are a bit substandard but they would have to be included.)
>
> All the game shave been annotated already so it just takes someone
> with hutzpah to sellotape them all together and make a $$$MILLION=EF=BF=
=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD
> =EF=BF=BD%%$=EF=BF=BD$$$$$=EF=BF=BD$$!!!!!
The games, many with notes, are available in, e.g. "The Games of
Robert J. Fischer." As for copying and reprinting the annotations,
there's a law against it. Annotations, unlike game scores, are subject
to copyright.
|
|
