Where is Mottorshead?

Main

Date: 05 Aug 2008 15:25:26
From: Chess One
Subject: Where is Mottorshead?

I might as well ask, for similar reasons, where is Laffertiti, but they both
seem rather scarce commodities. You would almost think they were in hiding,
since their physical whereabouts are far less certain than their publicly
uttered certainties.

Last I talked with the BRAIN he declaimed he was a NY Lawyer, though a bit
of investigation does not actually turn up any actual activity on his part
in the NY legal system. A rather theoretical practitioner, methinks!

The BRAIN could not answer at the time a question I put to him;

did he know at the time of posting here that the case about hot-saucing
children had been 'vacated' [his term] by the investigating court?

Since then he has been a scarce commodity, as scarce as his candid response
to what is, after all a simple question.

As for the other Brian, Mottorshead seems to have disappeared entirely. One
wonders after such brave pronouncements, why?

Phil Innes

Date: 12 Aug 2008 14:20:30
From: SBD
Subject: Re: Nezhmetdinov (was: Where is Mottorshead?)

On Aug 12, 2:11 pm, SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Aug 12, 1:50 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > But then Nezh still had good chances, had he played 44...Rc4 (-3.09)
> > instead of 44...Re4 (-1.80). Then Fritz says the last glimmer went out
> > with 62...g4 (-0.26) instead of 62...Rd5 (-2.88).
>
> That last position would be interesting to spend a few minutes on.
> Fritz is probably banking on reaching the tablebase with 62. ... Rd5
> 63. Ke3 Rxf5 - black wins. Has he missed anything there?

Guess not: 63. f6? Kg6!! 0-1

Date: 12 Aug 2008 12:11:12
From: SBD
Subject: Re: Nezhmetdinov (was: Where is Mottorshead?)

On Aug 12, 1:50 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> But then Nezh still had good chances, had he played 44...Rc4 (-3.09)
> instead of 44...Re4 (-1.80). Then Fritz says the last glimmer went out
> with 62...g4 (-0.26) instead of 62...Rd5 (-2.88).

That last position would be interesting to spend a few minutes on.
Fritz is probably banking on reaching the tablebase with 62. ... Rd5
63. Ke3 Rxf5 - black wins. Has he missed anything there?

62. ... g4 is also the sort of move one expects from a weekend patzer,
not a Russian superstar. Hopefully time or other factors intervened.

I also felt the way Nezh converted with Nxf4 etc lessened his chances,
and then he even locks up the k-side pawn structure! Perhaps Taimanov
was just simply better than him in the ending or Nezh's imagination
couldn't shine there...

Date: 12 Aug 2008 11:50:11
From:
Subject: Re: Nezhmetdinov (was: Where is Mottorshead?)

On Aug 12, 1:59 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> > 1 Averbach X =BD =BD =BD =BD =BD =BD 1 1 1 1 =BD =BD 1 1 1 1=
=BD 1 1 14.5
> > 2 Korchnoi =BD X =BD 0 =BD =BD 1 0 =BD 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 =BD 1 1=
1 13.0
> > 3 Tajmanov =BD =BD X =BD =BD =BD =BD 1 =BD 1 1 =BD =BD 1 =BD=
=BD 1 =BD 1 1 13.0
> > 4 Lisitsin =BD 1 =BD X =BD 1 1 1 =BD 0 =BD 0 =BD =BD =BD 1 1=
1 =BD 1 12.5
> > 5 Petrosian =BD =BD =BD =BD X =BD 1 =BD =BD =BD 1 1 =BD 1 =
=BD 1 =BD =BD =BD 1 12.5
> > 6 Kholmov =BD =BD =BD 0 =BD X 1 =BD 0 1 1 1 =BD =BD =BD =BD =
0 =BD 1 =BD 10.5
> > 7 Nezhmetdinov =BD 0 =BD 0 0 0 X =BD 0 =BD 1 1 1 0 1 1 =BD 1=
1 =BD 10.0
> > 8 Suetin 0 1 0 0 =BD =BD =BD X 1 1 =BD 1 =BD =BD 1 0 =BD 1 0=
=BD 10.0
> > 9 Furman 0 =BD =BD =BD =BD 1 1 0 X 0 0 =BD =BD =BD =BD 0 1 1=
1 1 10.0
> > 10 Bywshev 0 0 0 1 =BD 0 =BD 0 1 X 0 =BD 1 =BD 0 1 1 =BD 1 1=
9.5
> > 11 Geller 0 0 0 =BD 0 0 0 =BD 1 1 X 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 =BD 9.5
> > 12 Borisenko =BD 0 =BD 1 0 0 0 0 =BD =BD 1 X =BD =BD =BD =BD=
=BD 1 0 1 8.5
> > 13 Flohr =BD 0 =BD =BD =BD =BD 0 =BD =BD 0 0 =BD X 1 =BD =BD=
=BD =BD 1 =BD 8.5
> > 14 Bannik 0 1 0 =BD 0 =BD 1 =BD =BD =BD 0 =BD 0 X 1 =BD 0 0 =
=BD 1 8.0
> > 15 Ilivitsky 0 0 =BD =BD =BD =BD 0 0 =BD 1 0 =BD =BD 0 X =BD=
=BD 1 =BD 1 8.0
> > 16 Lilienthal 0 0 =BD 0 0 =BD 0 1 1 0 0 =BD =BD =BD =BD X =
=BD 1 1 =BD 8.0
> > 17 Ragozin 0 =BD 0 0 =BD 1 =BD =BD 0 0 0 =BD =BD 1 =BD =BD X=
0 0 =BD 6.5
> > 18 Shamkovich =BD 0 =BD 0 =BD =BD 0 0 0 =BD 1 0 =BD 1 0 0 1 =
X 0 =BD 6.5
> > 19 Livshin 0 0 0 =BD =BD 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 =BD =BD 0 1 1 X 0 6=
.0
> > 20 Sokolsky 0 0 0 0 0 =BD =BD =BD 0 0 =BD 0 =BD 0 0 =BD =BD =
=BD 1 X 5.0
>
> I particualrly liked his game with the balck pieces against Taimanov, whe=
re
> T was lucky to escape, imo, the black player having 2 connected passed pa=
wns
> at about move 45 -

Would that be this game, Phil?

[Event "URS-ch21"]
[Site "Kiev"]
[Date "1954.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Taimanov, Mark E"]
[Black "Nezhmetdinov, Rashid"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D36"]
[PlyCount "129"]
[EventDate "1954.??.??"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "19"]
[EventCountry "URS"]
[Source "ChessBase"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 e6 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Nc3 Nf6 6. Bg5 Be7 7. Qc2
Nbd7 8.
e3 O-O 9. Bd3 Re8 10. O-O Nf8 11. Rab1 a5 12. a3 Ne4 13. Bxe7 Qxe7 14.
b4 axb4
15. axb4 Ng6 16. b5 Bg4 17. Nd2 Nxd2 18. Qxd2 Nh4 19. f3 Qxe3+ 20.
Qxe3 Rxe3
21. fxg4 Rxd3 22. bxc6 bxc6 23. Ne2 Rd2 24. Rf2 h6 25. Rbf1 Ng6 26. h3
f6 27.
Ng3 Rxd4 28. Rb1 Ra7 29. Rb8+ Kh7 30. Rfb2 Rd1+ 31. Kh2 Re1 32. Rd8
Nf4 33. Nh5
Re2 34. Rxe2 Nxe2 35. Rc8 Nd4 36. Nf4 Re7 37. h4 Re4 38. Kg3 Re3+ 39.
Kf2 Re4
40. g3 Ne6 41. Rxc6 Nxf4 42. gxf4 Rxf4+ 43. Kg3 Re4 44. Rd6 Re5 45. h5
Kg8 46.
Kf4 g5+ 47. Kf3 Kf7 48. Rd7+ Ke6 49. Rh7 d4 50. Rxh6 Re3+ 51. Kf2 Re4
52. Kf3
Rf4+ 53. Kg3 d3 54. Rh8 Rd4 55. Re8+ Kf7 56. Re1 d2 57. Rd1 Rd3+ 58.
Kg2 Kg7
59. Kf2 Kh6 60. Kg2 f5 61. gxf5 Kxh5 62. Kf2 g4 63. f6 g3+ 64. Ke2 Rd6
65. Kf3
1/2-1/2

If so, the two connected passed pawns existed from move 27 to 40.

> Probably Fritz could improve on the game??
>
> Phil Innes

Fritz8 thinks Nezh blew it somewhat at move 38. Instead of
38...Re3+, better was 38...Ne6! forcing exchange of the knights. Then
39.Nxe6 (if 39.Nh3 or Nh5, 39...c5) 39...Rxe6 40.Kf2 Kg6 41.Rc7 h5!
42.gxh5+ Kxh5 43.Rxg7 Kxh4 and it looks like a matter of elementary
technique from then on (Fritz rates it about -4.48).
But then Nezh still had good chances, had he played 44...Rc4 (-3.09)
instead of 44...Re4 (-1.80). Then Fritz says the last glimmer went out
with 62...g4 (-0.26) instead of 62...Rd5 (-2.88).
These are rather quick analyses; I didn't give Fritz a lot of time,
so perhaps improvements can be found.

>
> > A direct link is tohttp://www.ruschess.com/Rusbase/USSR/21.php
>
> > Phil Innes
>
> >> [Event "Sochi"]
> >> [Site "Sochi"]
> >> [Date "1958.??.??"]
> >> [Round "?"]
> >> [White "Polugaevsky, Lev"]
> >> [Black "Nezhmetdinov, Rashid"]
> >> [Result "0-1"]
> >> [ECO "A53"]
> >> [PlyCount "66"]
> >> [EventDate "1958.??.??"]
> >> [EventType "tourn"]
> >> [EventRounds "11"]
> >> [EventCountry "URS"]
> >> [Source "ChessBase"]
> >> [SourceDate "1998.11.10"]
>
> >> 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6 3. Nc3 e5 4. e4 exd4 5. Qxd4 Nc6 6. Qd2 g6 7. b3
> >> Bg7 8. Bb2 O-O 9. Bd3 Ng4 10. Nge2 Qh4 11. Ng3 Nge5 12. O-O f5 13. f3
> >> Bh6 14. Qd1 f4 15.Nge2 g5 16. Nd5 g4 17. g3 fxg3 18. hxg3 Qh3 19. f4
> >> Be6 20. Bc2 Rf7 21. Kf2 Qh2+ 22. Ke3 Bxd5 23. cxd5 Nb4 24. Rh1 Rxf4
> >> 25. Rxh2 Rf3+ 26. Kd4 Bg7 27. a4 c5+ 28.dxc6 bxc6 29. Bd3 Nexd3+ 30.
> >> Kc4 d5+ 31. exd5 cxd5+ 32. Kb5 Rb8+ 33. Ka5 Nc6+ 0-1
>
> > Here is the other Nezhmetdinov game I mentioned, with the Q-sac at
> > move 12. Soltis put it at #65 in his top 100 games of the 20th
> > century. I wish I could post diagrams here at key points -- some of
> > Nezhmetdinov's moves look like typographical errors!
>
> > Nezhmetdinov-Chernikov, Russian Federation Team Championship, 1962:
>
> > 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 g6 5. Nc3 Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 7. Bc4
> > O-O 8. Bb3 Ng4 9. Qxg4 Nxd4 10. Qh4 Qa5 11. O-O Bf6 12. Qxf6 Ne2+ 13.
> > Nxe2 exf6 14. Nc3 Re8 15. Nd5 Re6 16. Bd4 Kg7 17. Rad1 d6 18. Rd3 Bd7
> > 19. Rf3 Bb5 20. Bc3 Qd8 21. Nxf6 Be2 22. Nxh7+ Kg8 23. Rh3 Re5 24. f4
> > Bxf1 25.Kxf1 Rc8 26. Bd4 b5 27. Ng5 Rc7 28. Bxf7+ Rxf7 29. Rh8+ Kxh8
> > 30. Nxf7+ Kh7 31.Nxd8 Rxe4 32. Nc6 Rxf4+ 33. Ke2 1-0

Date: 13 Aug 2008 09:22:05
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Nezhmetdinov (was: Where is Mottorshead?)

<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:b96bb715-b9d3-433b-b1d6-174b34f5d6ce@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 12, 1:59 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> > 1 Averbach X � � � � � � 1 1 1 1 � � 1 1 1 1 � 1 1 14.5
> > 2 Korchnoi � X � 0 � � 1 0 � 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 � 1 1 1 13.0
> > 3 Tajmanov � � X � � � � 1 � 1 1 � � 1 � � 1 � 1 1 13.0
> > 4 Lisitsin � 1 � X � 1 1 1 � 0 � 0 � � � 1 1 1 � 1 12.5
> > 5 Petrosian � � � � X � 1 � � � 1 1 � 1 � 1 � � � 1 12.5
> > 6 Kholmov � � � 0 � X 1 � 0 1 1 1 � � � � 0 � 1 � 10.5
> > 7 Nezhmetdinov � 0 � 0 0 0 X � 0 � 1 1 1 0 1 1 � 1 1 � 10.0
> > 8 Suetin 0 1 0 0 � � � X 1 1 � 1 � � 1 0 � 1 0 � 10.0
> > 9 Furman 0 � � � � 1 1 0 X 0 0 � � � � 0 1 1 1 1 10.0
> > 10 Bywshev 0 0 0 1 � 0 � 0 1 X 0 � 1 � 0 1 1 � 1 1 9.5
> > 11 Geller 0 0 0 � 0 0 0 � 1 1 X 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 � 9.5
> > 12 Borisenko � 0 � 1 0 0 0 0 � � 1 X � � � � � 1 0 1 8.5
> > 13 Flohr � 0 � � � � 0 � � 0 0 � X 1 � � � � 1 � 8.5
> > 14 Bannik 0 1 0 � 0 � 1 � � � 0 � 0 X 1 � 0 0 � 1 8.0
> > 15 Ilivitsky 0 0 � � � � 0 0 � 1 0 � � 0 X � � 1 � 1 8.0
> > 16 Lilienthal 0 0 � 0 0 � 0 1 1 0 0 � � � � X � 1 1 � 8.0
> > 17 Ragozin 0 � 0 0 � 1 � � 0 0 0 � � 1 � � X 0 0 � 6.5
> > 18 Shamkovich � 0 � 0 � � 0 0 0 � 1 0 � 1 0 0 1 X 0 � 6.5
> > 19 Livshin 0 0 0 � � 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 � � 0 1 1 X 0 6.0
> > 20 Sokolsky 0 0 0 0 0 � � � 0 0 � 0 � 0 0 � � � 1 X 5.0
>
> I particualrly liked his game with the balck pieces against Taimanov,
> where
> T was lucky to escape, imo, the black player having 2 connected passed
> pawns
> at about move 45 -

Would that be this game, Phil?

**Hi Taylor, that's the one! I'm not looking at a board right now, but from
the gamescore, black's decision at move 48 to bring King to center giving up
h pawn seems critical, since it seems to settle for a half point [being that
rook exchanges no longer favor black since white now has a passed h pawn and
black cannot de-tempo the white king], though the earlier position, say
between 36 and 42 promises black more if the White knight [on f4] can be
dealt with in some other way. Indeed, perhaps black had other options around
move 30? Evidentally he played to get get one passed pawn down the board,
and Taimanov successfully blocked its progress. O - I just spotted your
Fritz analysis below...

[Event "URS-ch21"]
[Site "Kiev"]
[Date "1954.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Taimanov, Mark E"]
[Black "Nezhmetdinov, Rashid"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D36"]
[PlyCount "129"]
[EventDate "1954.??.??"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "19"]
[EventCountry "URS"]
[Source "ChessBase"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 e6 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Nc3 Nf6 6. Bg5 Be7 7. Qc2
Nbd7 8.
e3 O-O 9. Bd3 Re8 10. O-O Nf8 11. Rab1 a5 12. a3 Ne4 13. Bxe7 Qxe7 14.
b4 axb4
15. axb4 Ng6 16. b5 Bg4 17. Nd2 Nxd2 18. Qxd2 Nh4 19. f3 Qxe3+ 20.
Qxe3 Rxe3
21. fxg4 Rxd3 22. bxc6 bxc6 23. Ne2 Rd2 24. Rf2 h6 25. Rbf1 Ng6 26. h3
f6 27.
Ng3 Rxd4 28. Rb1 Ra7 29. Rb8+ Kh7 30. Rfb2 Rd1+ 31. Kh2 Re1 32. Rd8
Nf4 33. Nh5
Re2 34. Rxe2 Nxe2 35. Rc8 Nd4 36. Nf4 Re7 37. h4 Re4 38. Kg3 Re3+ 39.
Kf2 Re4
40. g3 Ne6 41. Rxc6 Nxf4 42. gxf4 Rxf4+ 43. Kg3 Re4 44. Rd6 Re5 45. h5
Kg8 46.
Kf4 g5+ 47. Kf3 Kf7 48. Rd7+ Ke6 49. Rh7 d4 50. Rxh6 Re3+ 51. Kf2 Re4
52. Kf3
Rf4+ 53. Kg3 d3 54. Rh8 Rd4 55. Re8+ Kf7 56. Re1 d2 57. Rd1 Rd3+ 58.
Kg2 Kg7
59. Kf2 Kh6 60. Kg2 f5 61. gxf5 Kxh5 62. Kf2 g4 63. f6 g3+ 64. Ke2 Rd6
65. Kf3
1/2-1/2

If so, the two connected passed pawns existed from move 27 to 40.

> Probably Fritz could improve on the game??
>
> Phil Innes

Fritz8 thinks Nezh blew it somewhat at move 38. Instead of
38...Re3+, better was 38...Ne6! forcing exchange of the knights.

**Ah! How salutory to have found the right idea - except of course, I say
the idea more than how to achieve a favorable excahnge of knights, from
black's perspective. :(

Then
39.Nxe6 (if 39.Nh3 or Nh5, 39...c5) 39...Rxe6 40.Kf2 Kg6 41.Rc7 h5!
42.gxh5+ Kxh5 43.Rxg7 Kxh4 and it looks like a matter of elementary
technique from then on (Fritz rates it about -4.48).
But then Nezh still had good chances, had he played 44...Rc4 (-3.09)
instead of 44...Re4 (-1.80). Then Fritz says the last glimmer went out
with 62...g4 (-0.26) instead of 62...Rd5 (-2.88).
These are rather quick analyses; I didn't give Fritz a lot of time,
so perhaps improvements can be found.

**Interesting, thanks for the analysis!

Cordially, Phil Innes

>
> > A direct link is tohttp://www.ruschess.com/Rusbase/USSR/21.php
>
> > Phil Innes
>
> >> [Event "Sochi"]
> >> [Site "Sochi"]
> >> [Date "1958.??.??"]
> >> [Round "?"]
> >> [White "Polugaevsky, Lev"]
> >> [Black "Nezhmetdinov, Rashid"]
> >> [Result "0-1"]
> >> [ECO "A53"]
> >> [PlyCount "66"]
> >> [EventDate "1958.??.??"]
> >> [EventType "tourn"]
> >> [EventRounds "11"]
> >> [EventCountry "URS"]
> >> [Source "ChessBase"]
> >> [SourceDate "1998.11.10"]
>
> >> 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6 3. Nc3 e5 4. e4 exd4 5. Qxd4 Nc6 6. Qd2 g6 7. b3
> >> Bg7 8. Bb2 O-O 9. Bd3 Ng4 10. Nge2 Qh4 11. Ng3 Nge5 12. O-O f5 13. f3
> >> Bh6 14. Qd1 f4 15.Nge2 g5 16. Nd5 g4 17. g3 fxg3 18. hxg3 Qh3 19. f4
> >> Be6 20. Bc2 Rf7 21. Kf2 Qh2+ 22. Ke3 Bxd5 23. cxd5 Nb4 24. Rh1 Rxf4
> >> 25. Rxh2 Rf3+ 26. Kd4 Bg7 27. a4 c5+ 28.dxc6 bxc6 29. Bd3 Nexd3+ 30.
> >> Kc4 d5+ 31. exd5 cxd5+ 32. Kb5 Rb8+ 33. Ka5 Nc6+ 0-1
>
> > Here is the other Nezhmetdinov game I mentioned, with the Q-sac at
> > move 12. Soltis put it at #65 in his top 100 games of the 20th
> > century. I wish I could post diagrams here at key points -- some of
> > Nezhmetdinov's moves look like typographical errors!
>
> > Nezhmetdinov-Chernikov, Russian Federation Team Championship, 1962:
>
> > 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 g6 5. Nc3 Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 7. Bc4
> > O-O 8. Bb3 Ng4 9. Qxg4 Nxd4 10. Qh4 Qa5 11. O-O Bf6 12. Qxf6 Ne2+ 13.
> > Nxe2 exf6 14. Nc3 Re8 15. Nd5 Re6 16. Bd4 Kg7 17. Rad1 d6 18. Rd3 Bd7
> > 19. Rf3 Bb5 20. Bc3 Qd8 21. Nxf6 Be2 22. Nxh7+ Kg8 23. Rh3 Re5 24. f4
> > Bxf1 25.Kxf1 Rc8 26. Bd4 b5 27. Ng5 Rc7 28. Bxf7+ Rxf7 29. Rh8+ Kxh8
> > 30. Nxf7+ Kh7 31.Nxd8 Rxe4 32. Nc6 Rxf4+ 33. Ke2 1-0

Date: 12 Aug 2008 07:11:45
From:
Subject: Re: Nezhmetdinov (was: Where is Mottorshead?)

On Aug 10, 10:18=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 9, 11:18=A0pm, thumbody <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > [email protected] wrote:
>
> > .
>
> > > > =A0 =A0Hmmmm. I vaguely recall hearing that phrase, but cannot plac=
e it.
> > > > Might not even have been in a chess context. I can think of several
> > > > GMs whom it fits -- Tal and Stein come immediately to mind -- but I
> > > > can't say they were ever actually described in those words. If I fi=
nd
> > > > something definite, I'll let you know.
>
> > > =A0 Could this have been said in reference to Nezhmetdinov?
>
> > Maybe, maybe. Given my reading history I'd be happy if it was first use=
d
> > to describe M. Tal & passed into chess-lore being recycled later on.
> > Watson seems too recent from my point of view & Nezhmetdinov I hadn't
> > heard of before.

> =A0 Rashid Nezhmetdinov, born 1912, Aktiubinsk USSR, died 1974, Kazan
> USSR. Awarded IM title in 1954. A very erratic player, but he was
> often able to topple the great. Had one of the wildest, most
> aggressive attacking styles ever -- he once sacrificed his queen on
> move 12! The following game shared the #1 spot (with Estrin-Berliner,
> World CC Ch 1965-68) in Sotis' "The 100 Best Chess Games of the 20th
> Century":
>
> [Event "Sochi"]
> [Site "Sochi"]
> [Date "1958.??.??"]
> [Round "?"]
> [White "Polugaevsky, Lev"]
> [Black "Nezhmetdinov, Rashid"]
> [Result "0-1"]
> [ECO "A53"]
> [PlyCount "66"]
> [EventDate "1958.??.??"]
> [EventType "tourn"]
> [EventRounds "11"]
> [EventCountry "URS"]
> [Source "ChessBase"]
> [SourceDate "1998.11.10"]
>
> 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6 3. Nc3 e5 4. e4 exd4 5. Qxd4 Nc6 6. Qd2 g6 7. b3
> Bg7 8. Bb2 O-O 9. Bd3 Ng4 10. Nge2 Qh4 11. Ng3 Nge5 12. O-O f5 13. f3
> Bh6 14. Qd1 f4 15.Nge2 g5 16. Nd5 g4 17. g3 fxg3 18. hxg3 Qh3 19. f4
> Be6 20. Bc2 Rf7 21. Kf2 Qh2+ 22. Ke3 Bxd5 23. cxd5 Nb4 24. Rh1 Rxf4
> 25. Rxh2 Rf3+ 26. Kd4 Bg7 27. a4 c5+ 28.dxc6 bxc6 29. Bd3 Nexd3+ 30.
> Kc4 d5+ 31. exd5 cxd5+ 32. Kb5 Rb8+ 33. Ka5 Nc6+ 0-1

Here is the other Nezhmetdinov game I mentioned, with the Q-sac at
move 12. Soltis put it at #65 in his top 100 games of the 20th
century. I wish I could post diagrams here at key points -- some of
Nezhmetdinov's moves look like typographical errors!

Nezhmetdinov-Chernikov, Russian Federation Team Championship, 1962:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 g6 5. Nc3 Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 7. Bc4
O-O 8. Bb3 Ng4 9. Qxg4 Nxd4 10. Qh4 Qa5 11. O-O Bf6 12. Qxf6 Ne2+ 13.
Nxe2 exf6 14. Nc3 Re8 15. Nd5 Re6 16. Bd4 Kg7 17. Rad1 d6 18. Rd3 Bd7
19. Rf3 Bb5 20. Bc3 Qd8 21. Nxf6 Be2 22. Nxh7+ Kg8 23. Rh3 Re5 24. f4
Bxf1 25.Kxf1 Rc8 26. Bd4 b5 27. Ng5 Rc7 28. Bxf7+ Rxf7 29. Rh8+ Kxh8
30. Nxf7+ Kh7 31.Nxd8 Rxe4 32. Nc6 Rxf4+ 33. Ke2 1-0

Date: 12 Aug 2008 13:50:07
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Nezhmetdinov (was: Where is Mottorshead?)

<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Aug 10, 10:18 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 9, 11:18 pm, thumbody <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > [email protected] wrote:
>
> > .
>
> > > > Hmmmm. I vaguely recall hearing that phrase, but cannot place it.
> > > > Might not even have been in a chess context. I can think of several
> > > > GMs whom it fits -- Tal and Stein come immediately to mind -- but I
> > > > can't say they were ever actually described in those words. If I
> > > > find
> > > > something definite, I'll let you know.
>
> > > Could this have been said in reference to Nezhmetdinov?
>
> > Maybe, maybe. Given my reading history I'd be happy if it was first used
> > to describe M. Tal & passed into chess-lore being recycled later on.
> > Watson seems too recent from my point of view & Nezhmetdinov I hadn't
> > heard of before.

To add a couple of notes:

> Rashid Nezhmetdinov, born 1912,

born 15 December to a poor peasant family

in 1927 became schoolboy champion of Kazan - 3 years later won the
Championship of Kazan.

Served Soviet Army, won Championship Sov Military Admin in Germany.

> Aktiubinsk USSR, died 1974, Kazan
> USSR.

In 1950 won Russian Federation Championship and, a awarded title of Russian
Master - a particular distinction is that he is the only player to become
Nat Champ in both chess and draughts.

In 1953 published chess title, first ever in Tatar language.

> Awarded IM title in 1954. A very erratic player, but he was
> often able to topple the great. Had one of the wildest, most
> aggressive attacking styles ever -- he once sacrificed his queen on
> move 12! The following game shared the #1 spot (with Estrin-Berliner,
> World CC Ch 1965-68) in Sotis' "The 100 Best Chess Games of the 20th
> Century":

In addition I did some research and found a cross-table, replay engine and
pgn download for games from the 1954 tournament Russian Champ in Kiev - [I
apologise if this chart disperses on posting]

Pl. Name 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 Sc.
1 Averbach X � � � � � � 1 1 1 1 � � 1 1 1 1 � 1 1 14.5
2 Korchnoi � X � 0 � � 1 0 � 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 � 1 1 1 13.0
3 Tajmanov � � X � � � � 1 � 1 1 � � 1 � � 1 � 1 1 13.0
4 Lisitsin � 1 � X � 1 1 1 � 0 � 0 � � � 1 1 1 � 1 12.5
5 Petrosian � � � � X � 1 � � � 1 1 � 1 � 1 � � � 1 12.5
6 Kholmov � � � 0 � X 1 � 0 1 1 1 � � � � 0 � 1 � 10.5
7 Nezhmetdinov � 0 � 0 0 0 X � 0 � 1 1 1 0 1 1 � 1 1 � 10.0
8 Suetin 0 1 0 0 � � � X 1 1 � 1 � � 1 0 � 1 0 � 10.0
9 Furman 0 � � � � 1 1 0 X 0 0 � � � � 0 1 1 1 1 10.0
10 Bywshev 0 0 0 1 � 0 � 0 1 X 0 � 1 � 0 1 1 � 1 1 9.5
11 Geller 0 0 0 � 0 0 0 � 1 1 X 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 � 9.5
12 Borisenko � 0 � 1 0 0 0 0 � � 1 X � � � � � 1 0 1 8.5
13 Flohr � 0 � � � � 0 � � 0 0 � X 1 � � � � 1 � 8.5
14 Bannik 0 1 0 � 0 � 1 � � � 0 � 0 X 1 � 0 0 � 1 8.0
15 Ilivitsky 0 0 � � � � 0 0 � 1 0 � � 0 X � � 1 � 1 8.0
16 Lilienthal 0 0 � 0 0 � 0 1 1 0 0 � � � � X � 1 1 � 8.0
17 Ragozin 0 � 0 0 � 1 � � 0 0 0 � � 1 � � X 0 0 � 6.5
18 Shamkovich � 0 � 0 � � 0 0 0 � 1 0 � 1 0 0 1 X 0 � 6.5
19 Livshin 0 0 0 � � 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 � � 0 1 1 X 0 6.0
20 Sokolsky 0 0 0 0 0 � � � 0 0 � 0 � 0 0 � � � 1 X 5.0

A direct link is to http://www.ruschess.com/Rusbase/USSR/21.php

Phil Innes

> [Event "Sochi"]
> [Site "Sochi"]
> [Date "1958.??.??"]
> [Round "?"]
> [White "Polugaevsky, Lev"]
> [Black "Nezhmetdinov, Rashid"]
> [Result "0-1"]
> [ECO "A53"]
> [PlyCount "66"]
> [EventDate "1958.??.??"]
> [EventType "tourn"]
> [EventRounds "11"]
> [EventCountry "URS"]
> [Source "ChessBase"]
> [SourceDate "1998.11.10"]
>
> 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6 3. Nc3 e5 4. e4 exd4 5. Qxd4 Nc6 6. Qd2 g6 7. b3
> Bg7 8. Bb2 O-O 9. Bd3 Ng4 10. Nge2 Qh4 11. Ng3 Nge5 12. O-O f5 13. f3
> Bh6 14. Qd1 f4 15.Nge2 g5 16. Nd5 g4 17. g3 fxg3 18. hxg3 Qh3 19. f4
> Be6 20. Bc2 Rf7 21. Kf2 Qh2+ 22. Ke3 Bxd5 23. cxd5 Nb4 24. Rh1 Rxf4
> 25. Rxh2 Rf3+ 26. Kd4 Bg7 27. a4 c5+ 28.dxc6 bxc6 29. Bd3 Nexd3+ 30.
> Kc4 d5+ 31. exd5 cxd5+ 32. Kb5 Rb8+ 33. Ka5 Nc6+ 0-1

Here is the other Nezhmetdinov game I mentioned, with the Q-sac at
move 12. Soltis put it at #65 in his top 100 games of the 20th
century. I wish I could post diagrams here at key points -- some of
Nezhmetdinov's moves look like typographical errors!

Nezhmetdinov-Chernikov, Russian Federation Team Championship, 1962:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 g6 5. Nc3 Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 7. Bc4
O-O 8. Bb3 Ng4 9. Qxg4 Nxd4 10. Qh4 Qa5 11. O-O Bf6 12. Qxf6 Ne2+ 13.
Nxe2 exf6 14. Nc3 Re8 15. Nd5 Re6 16. Bd4 Kg7 17. Rad1 d6 18. Rd3 Bd7
19. Rf3 Bb5 20. Bc3 Qd8 21. Nxf6 Be2 22. Nxh7+ Kg8 23. Rh3 Re5 24. f4
Bxf1 25.Kxf1 Rc8 26. Bd4 b5 27. Ng5 Rc7 28. Bxf7+ Rxf7 29. Rh8+ Kxh8
30. Nxf7+ Kh7 31.Nxd8 Rxe4 32. Nc6 Rxf4+ 33. Ke2 1-0

Date: 12 Aug 2008 13:59:15
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Nezhmetdinov (was: Where is Mottorshead?)

> 1 Averbach X � � � � � � 1 1 1 1 � � 1 1 1 1 � 1 1 14.5
> 2 Korchnoi � X � 0 � � 1 0 � 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 � 1 1 1 13.0
> 3 Tajmanov � � X � � � � 1 � 1 1 � � 1 � � 1 � 1 1 13.0
> 4 Lisitsin � 1 � X � 1 1 1 � 0 � 0 � � � 1 1 1 � 1 12.5
> 5 Petrosian � � � � X � 1 � � � 1 1 � 1 � 1 � � � 1 12.5
> 6 Kholmov � � � 0 � X 1 � 0 1 1 1 � � � � 0 � 1 � 10.5
> 7 Nezhmetdinov � 0 � 0 0 0 X � 0 � 1 1 1 0 1 1 � 1 1 � 10.0
> 8 Suetin 0 1 0 0 � � � X 1 1 � 1 � � 1 0 � 1 0 � 10.0
> 9 Furman 0 � � � � 1 1 0 X 0 0 � � � � 0 1 1 1 1 10.0
> 10 Bywshev 0 0 0 1 � 0 � 0 1 X 0 � 1 � 0 1 1 � 1 1 9.5
> 11 Geller 0 0 0 � 0 0 0 � 1 1 X 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 � 9.5
> 12 Borisenko � 0 � 1 0 0 0 0 � � 1 X � � � � � 1 0 1 8.5
> 13 Flohr � 0 � � � � 0 � � 0 0 � X 1 � � � � 1 � 8.5
> 14 Bannik 0 1 0 � 0 � 1 � � � 0 � 0 X 1 � 0 0 � 1 8.0
> 15 Ilivitsky 0 0 � � � � 0 0 � 1 0 � � 0 X � � 1 � 1 8.0
> 16 Lilienthal 0 0 � 0 0 � 0 1 1 0 0 � � � � X � 1 1 � 8.0
> 17 Ragozin 0 � 0 0 � 1 � � 0 0 0 � � 1 � � X 0 0 � 6.5
> 18 Shamkovich � 0 � 0 � � 0 0 0 � 1 0 � 1 0 0 1 X 0 � 6.5
> 19 Livshin 0 0 0 � � 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 � � 0 1 1 X 0 6.0
> 20 Sokolsky 0 0 0 0 0 � � � 0 0 � 0 � 0 0 � � � 1 X 5.0

I particualrly liked his game with the balck pieces against Taimanov, where
T was lucky to escape, imo, the black player having 2 connected passed pawns
at about move 45 - Probably Fritz could improve on the game??

Phil Innes

>
> A direct link is to http://www.ruschess.com/Rusbase/USSR/21.php
>
> Phil Innes
>
>> [Event "Sochi"]
>> [Site "Sochi"]
>> [Date "1958.??.??"]
>> [Round "?"]
>> [White "Polugaevsky, Lev"]
>> [Black "Nezhmetdinov, Rashid"]
>> [Result "0-1"]
>> [ECO "A53"]
>> [PlyCount "66"]
>> [EventDate "1958.??.??"]
>> [EventType "tourn"]
>> [EventRounds "11"]
>> [EventCountry "URS"]
>> [Source "ChessBase"]
>> [SourceDate "1998.11.10"]
>>
>> 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6 3. Nc3 e5 4. e4 exd4 5. Qxd4 Nc6 6. Qd2 g6 7. b3
>> Bg7 8. Bb2 O-O 9. Bd3 Ng4 10. Nge2 Qh4 11. Ng3 Nge5 12. O-O f5 13. f3
>> Bh6 14. Qd1 f4 15.Nge2 g5 16. Nd5 g4 17. g3 fxg3 18. hxg3 Qh3 19. f4
>> Be6 20. Bc2 Rf7 21. Kf2 Qh2+ 22. Ke3 Bxd5 23. cxd5 Nb4 24. Rh1 Rxf4
>> 25. Rxh2 Rf3+ 26. Kd4 Bg7 27. a4 c5+ 28.dxc6 bxc6 29. Bd3 Nexd3+ 30.
>> Kc4 d5+ 31. exd5 cxd5+ 32. Kb5 Rb8+ 33. Ka5 Nc6+ 0-1
>
> Here is the other Nezhmetdinov game I mentioned, with the Q-sac at
> move 12. Soltis put it at #65 in his top 100 games of the 20th
> century. I wish I could post diagrams here at key points -- some of
> Nezhmetdinov's moves look like typographical errors!
>
> Nezhmetdinov-Chernikov, Russian Federation Team Championship, 1962:
>
> 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 g6 5. Nc3 Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 7. Bc4
> O-O 8. Bb3 Ng4 9. Qxg4 Nxd4 10. Qh4 Qa5 11. O-O Bf6 12. Qxf6 Ne2+ 13.
> Nxe2 exf6 14. Nc3 Re8 15. Nd5 Re6 16. Bd4 Kg7 17. Rad1 d6 18. Rd3 Bd7
> 19. Rf3 Bb5 20. Bc3 Qd8 21. Nxf6 Be2 22. Nxh7+ Kg8 23. Rh3 Re5 24. f4
> Bxf1 25.Kxf1 Rc8 26. Bd4 b5 27. Ng5 Rc7 28. Bxf7+ Rxf7 29. Rh8+ Kxh8
> 30. Nxf7+ Kh7 31.Nxd8 Rxe4 32. Nc6 Rxf4+ 33. Ke2 1-0
>
>
>

Date: 10 Aug 2008 20:06:40
From:
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

Mike Murray wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:25:26 -0400, "Chess One" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
> >As for the other Brian, Mottorshead seems to have disappeared entirely. One
> >wonders after such brave pronouncements, why?
>
> >Phil Innes
>
> He posts regularly on the USCF forums. Don't you follow these forums?
> If not, you could ask Polgar or PT to forward you his posts.

It would be difficult for Innes to follow the USCF Issues forum, since
he hasn't been a member since 1996.

Date: 10 Aug 2008 19:13:34
From:
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

[email protected] wrote:
>
> > this may
> > fall on deaf ears - but somewhere I remember one famous GM describing
> > another younger GM's style as being "dangerous - like a drunk with a
> > machine-gun" which @ the time I found rather amusing but can't for the
> > life of me remember who they were :) ..
>
> Hmmmm. I vaguely recall hearing that phrase, but cannot place it.
> Might not even have been in a chess context. I can think of several
> GMs whom it fits -- Tal and Stein come immediately to mind -- but I
> can't say they were ever actually described in those words. If I find
> something definite, I'll let you know.

I heard Spassky use the phrase in a lecture once. He seemed to be
saying that it was a common expression in Russian. Perhaps a Russian
speaker could comment.

Date: 10 Aug 2008 09:21:52
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

On Aug 5, 2:25 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> I might as well ask, for similar reasons, where is Laffertiti, but they both
> seem rather scarce commodities. You would almost think they were in hiding,
> since their physical whereabouts are far less certain than their publicly
> uttered certainties.
>
> Last I talked with the BRAIN he declaimed he was a NY Lawyer, though a bit
> of investigation does not actually turn up any actual activity on his part
> in the NY legal system. A rather theoretical practitioner, methinks!
>
> The BRAIN could not answer at the time a question I put to him;
>
> did he know at the time of posting here that the case about hot-saucing
> children had been 'vacated' [his term] by the investigating court?
>
> Since then he has been a scarce commodity, as scarce as his candid response
> to what is, after all a simple question.
>
> As for the other Brian, Mottorshead seems to have disappeared entirely. One
> wonders after such brave pronouncements, why?
>
> Phil Innes

You might try posting the request in a forum they read.

Date: 10 Aug 2008 07:18:56
From:
Subject: Nezhmetdinov (was: Where is Mottorshead?)

On Aug 9, 11:18=A0pm, thumbody <[email protected] > wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> .
>
> > > =A0 =A0Hmmmm. I vaguely recall hearing that phrase, but cannot place =
it.
> > > Might not even have been in a chess context. I can think of several
> > > GMs whom it fits -- Tal and Stein come immediately to mind -- but I
> > > can't say they were ever actually described in those words. If I find
> > > something definite, I'll let you know.
>
> > =A0 Could this have been said in reference to Nezhmetdinov?
>
> Maybe, maybe. Given my reading history I'd be happy if it was first used
> to describe M. Tal & passed into chess-lore being recycled later on.
> Watson seems too recent from my point of view & Nezhmetdinov I hadn't
> heard of before.

Rashid Nezhmetdinov, born 1912, Aktiubinsk USSR, died 1974, Kazan
USSR. Awarded IM title in 1954. A very erratic player, but he was
often able to topple the great. Had one of the wildest, most
aggressive attacking styles ever -- he once sacrificed his queen on
move 12! The following game shared the #1 spot (with Estrin-Berliner,
World CC Ch 1965-68) in Sotis' "The 100 Best Chess Games of the 20th
Century":

[Event "Sochi"]
[Site "Sochi"]
[Date "1958.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Polugaevsky, Lev"]
[Black "Nezhmetdinov, Rashid"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A53"]
[PlyCount "66"]
[EventDate "1958.??.??"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "URS"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "1998.11.10"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6 3. Nc3 e5 4. e4 exd4 5. Qxd4 Nc6 6. Qd2 g6 7. b3
Bg7 8. Bb2 O-O 9. Bd3 Ng4 10. Nge2 Qh4 11. Ng3 Nge5 12. O-O f5 13. f3
Bh6 14. Qd1 f4 15.Nge2 g5 16. Nd5 g4 17. g3 fxg3 18. hxg3 Qh3 19. f4
Be6 20. Bc2 Rf7 21. Kf2 Qh2+ 22. Ke3 Bxd5 23. cxd5 Nb4 24. Rh1 Rxf4
25. Rxh2 Rf3+ 26. Kd4 Bg7 27. a4 c5+ 28.dxc6 bxc6 29. Bd3 Nexd3+ 30.
Kc4 d5+ 31. exd5 cxd5+ 32. Kb5 Rb8+ 33. Ka5 Nc6+ 0-1

Date: 10 Aug 2008 13:18:21
From: thumbody
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

[email protected] wrote:
.
> > Hmmmm. I vaguely recall hearing that phrase, but cannot place it.
> > Might not even have been in a chess context. I can think of several
> > GMs whom it fits -- Tal and Stein come immediately to mind -- but I
> > can't say they were ever actually described in those words. If I find
> > something definite, I'll let you know.
>
> Could this have been said in reference to Nezhmetdinov?

Maybe, maybe. Given my reading history I'd be happy if it was first used
to describe M. Tal & passed into chess-lore being recycled later on.
Watson seems too recent from my point of view & Nezhmetdinov I hadn't
heard of before..

t.

Date: 08 Aug 2008 16:23:47
From: SBD
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

On Aug 8, 2:15 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 8, 2:28 pm, SBD <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 8, 11:55 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > >news:f878b626-11f1-46d2-812e-0d8acc3739c2@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > this may
> > > > > fall on deaf ears - but somewhere I remember one famous GM describing
> > > > > another younger GM's style as being "dangerous - like a drunk with a
> > > > > machine-gun" which @ the time I found rather amusing but can't for the
> > > > > life of me remember who they were :) ..
>
> > > > Hmmmm. I vaguely recall hearing that phrase, but cannot place it.
> > > > Might not even have been in a chess context. I can think of several
> > > > GMs whom it fits -- Tal and Stein come immediately to mind -- but I
> > > > can't say they were ever actually described in those words. If I find
> > > > something definite, I'll let you know.
>
> > > Could this have been said in reference to Nezhmetdinov?
>
> > > **I asked Chessville's readers. Our demographic is a bit different from the
> > > Cafe, with lots of East Europeans, so maybe we can find out;op cit
>
> > > --
>
> > > A reader writes:
>
> > > One famous GM describing another younger GM's style as being "dangerous -
> > > like a drunk with a machine-gun" which @ the time I found rather amusing but
> > > can't for the life of me remember who they were :) ..
>
> > > Current guesses are Tal, Stein and Nezhmetdinov.
>
> > > Anyone know better, when this was said, where said, which GM spoke of the
> > > referenced GM, or where the quotation is located in chess literature?
>
> > > --
>
> > > Phil
>
> > Do any of you guys know how to do a basic search in Google?
>
> Yes, Steve, of course I know how to do online searches. And I did
> one before posting my reply to thumbody. The only matches I got had
> nothing to do with chess.
>
> > Watson was British Rapidplay Chess Champion in 1992 and British Chess
> > Champion in 1994. Boris Spassky once famously described his style of
> > play as that of a drunk with a machine gun.
>
> > from Wikipedia and a ton of other sources
>
> Those did not show when I did my search.

I should have put a :) in there.... actually was surprised to find
what you did not....

Date: 08 Aug 2008 12:15:33
From:
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

On Aug 8, 2:28=A0pm, SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Aug 8, 11:55 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:f878b626-11f1-46d2-812e-0d8acc3739c2@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com..=
.
>
> > > > this may
> > > > fall on deaf ears - but somewhere I remember one famous GM describi=
ng
> > > > another younger GM's style as being "dangerous - like a drunk with =
a
> > > > machine-gun" which @ the time I found rather amusing but can't for =
the
> > > > life of me remember who they were :) ..
>
> > > Hmmmm. I vaguely recall hearing that phrase, but cannot place it.
> > > Might not even have been in a chess context. I can think of several
> > > GMs whom it fits -- Tal and Stein come immediately to mind -- but I
> > > can't say they were ever actually described in those words. If I find
> > > something definite, I'll let you know.
>
> > =A0 Could this have been said in reference to Nezhmetdinov?
>
> > **I asked Chessville's readers. Our demographic is a bit different from=
the
> > Cafe, with lots of East Europeans, so maybe we can find out;op cit
>
> > --
>
> > A reader writes:
>
> > One famous GM describing another younger GM's style as being "dangerous=
-
> > like a drunk with a machine-gun" which @ the time I found rather amusin=
g but
> > can't for the life of me remember who they were :) ..
>
> > Current guesses are Tal, Stein and =A0Nezhmetdinov.
>
> > Anyone know better, when this was said, where said, which GM spoke of t=
he
> > referenced GM, or where the quotation is located in chess literature?
>
> > --
>
> > Phil
>
> Do any of you guys know how to do a basic search in Google?

Yes, Steve, of course I know how to do online searches. And I did
one before posting my reply to thumbody. The only matches I got had
nothing to do with chess.

> Watson was British Rapidplay Chess Champion in 1992 and British Chess
> Champion in 1994. Boris Spassky once famously described his style of
> play as that of a drunk with a machine gun.
>
> from Wikipedia and a ton of other sources

Those did not show when I did my search.

Date: 08 Aug 2008 11:28:19
From: SBD
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

On Aug 8, 11:55 am, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:f878b626-11f1-46d2-812e-0d8acc3739c2@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > this may
> > > fall on deaf ears - but somewhere I remember one famous GM describing
> > > another younger GM's style as being "dangerous - like a drunk with a
> > > machine-gun" which @ the time I found rather amusing but can't for the
> > > life of me remember who they were :) ..
>
> > Hmmmm. I vaguely recall hearing that phrase, but cannot place it.
> > Might not even have been in a chess context. I can think of several
> > GMs whom it fits -- Tal and Stein come immediately to mind -- but I
> > can't say they were ever actually described in those words. If I find
> > something definite, I'll let you know.
>
> Could this have been said in reference to Nezhmetdinov?
>
> **I asked Chessville's readers. Our demographic is a bit different from the
> Cafe, with lots of East Europeans, so maybe we can find out;op cit
>
> --
>
> A reader writes:
>
> One famous GM describing another younger GM's style as being "dangerous -
> like a drunk with a machine-gun" which @ the time I found rather amusing but
> can't for the life of me remember who they were :) ..
>
> Current guesses are Tal, Stein and Nezhmetdinov.
>
> Anyone know better, when this was said, where said, which GM spoke of the
> referenced GM, or where the quotation is located in chess literature?
>
> --
>
> Phil

Do any of you guys know how to do a basic search in Google?

Watson was British Rapidplay Chess Champion in 1992 and British Chess
Champion in 1994. Boris Spassky once famously described his style of
play as that of a drunk with a machine gun.

from Wikipedia and a ton of other sources

Date: 08 Aug 2008 15:06:43
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

"SBD" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:d8c65990-8494-468c-af9b-72457552dc22@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 8, 11:55 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:f878b626-11f1-46d2-812e-0d8acc3739c2@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > > this may
>> > > fall on deaf ears - but somewhere I remember one famous GM describing
>> > > another younger GM's style as being "dangerous - like a drunk with a
>> > > machine-gun" which @ the time I found rather amusing but can't for
>> > > the
>> > > life of me remember who they were :) ..
>>
>> > Hmmmm. I vaguely recall hearing that phrase, but cannot place it.
>> > Might not even have been in a chess context. I can think of several
>> > GMs whom it fits -- Tal and Stein come immediately to mind -- but I
>> > can't say they were ever actually described in those words. If I find
>> > something definite, I'll let you know.
>>
>> Could this have been said in reference to Nezhmetdinov?
>>
>> **I asked Chessville's readers. Our demographic is a bit different from
>> the
>> Cafe, with lots of East Europeans, so maybe we can find out;op cit
>>
>> --
>>
>> A reader writes:
>>
>> One famous GM describing another younger GM's style as being "dangerous -
>> like a drunk with a machine-gun" which @ the time I found rather amusing
>> but
>> can't for the life of me remember who they were :) ..
>>
>> Current guesses are Tal, Stein and Nezhmetdinov.
>>
>> Anyone know better, when this was said, where said, which GM spoke of the
>> referenced GM, or where the quotation is located in chess literature?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Phil
>
> Do any of you guys know how to do a basic search in Google?

No, we are incompetents, also lazy. We think, google is...? pfft! That it is
unlikely to achieve a result, besides other people, smarter or faster than
we, will have consulted it, so why bother, also will it be true? So,
suffering from our experiences, we act like typical men!

> Watson was British Rapidplay Chess Champion in 1992 and British Chess
> Champion in 1994. Boris Spassky once famously described his style of
> play as that of a drunk with a machine gun.
>
> from Wikipedia and a ton of other sources

Much thank yous for your competencys and vigorisme!

Ruhe! Ich danke Ihnen! Das Alter w�gt, die Jugend wagt, Junkerei! noi*?

Gr�ss, Phil Innes

*Swabischen Bereich!

Date: 08 Aug 2008 07:31:19
From:
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

On Aug 8, 10:25=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 7, 9:49=A0pm, thumbody <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > =A0 Having engaged in considerable amicable correspondence with Spinr=
ad,
> > > and having an ongoing working relationship with him on his ChessCafe
> > > column, I can assure you that he does not fit your vulgar description=
.
> > > In my experience, his modesty/arrogance ratio is somewhere between 99=
-
> > > to-1 and 100-to-zero.
>
> > Ok Taylor, I accept your chastisement & apologise to Mr Spinrad for my
> > rudeness.
>
> =A0 Well, a small spark of civility in the vitriol-suffused darkness of
> rgc. I am encouraged that all is not lost! :-)
>
> > It was the wee small hours, cold, dark & lonely & as I
> > fingered my keyboard I hungered for some, any sort of feedback..
>
> > Considering the nature of arrogance & the game of chess do you not thin=
k
> > it probable that someone expunged of this common human trait, someone o=
n
> > the way to Valhalla or Nirvana like the Pope or the Dalai Lama for
> > examples, might prove hugely ineffective when pawn-storms, fianchettoed
> > bishops & exchange sacs. are the order of the day?..
>
> =A0 Chess is unusual, in that within it, paranoia is a rational outlook.
>
> > On a lighter note - I was going to enquire of Phil but realising his
> > Chessville commitments & also your involvement with ChessCafe
>
> =A0 I have very little involvement with ChessCafe any more, just editing
> Jerry Spinrad's column, which means mainly that I find relevant games
> and annotate them. Eight or nine years of reading nothing but chess
> books and reviewing them was enough.
>
> > this may
> > fall on deaf ears - but somewhere I remember one famous GM describing
> > another younger GM's style as being "dangerous - like a drunk with a
> > machine-gun" which @ the time I found rather amusing but can't for the
> > life of me remember who they were :) ..
>
> =A0 =A0Hmmmm. I vaguely recall hearing that phrase, but cannot place it.
> Might not even have been in a chess context. I can think of several
> GMs whom it fits -- Tal and Stein come immediately to mind -- but I
> can't say they were ever actually described in those words. If I find
> something definite, I'll let you know.

Could this have been said in reference to Nezhmetdinov?

Date: 08 Aug 2008 12:55:41
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:f878b626-11f1-46d2-812e-0d8acc3739c2@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

> > this may
> > fall on deaf ears - but somewhere I remember one famous GM describing
> > another younger GM's style as being "dangerous - like a drunk with a
> > machine-gun" which @ the time I found rather amusing but can't for the
> > life of me remember who they were :) ..
>
> Hmmmm. I vaguely recall hearing that phrase, but cannot place it.
> Might not even have been in a chess context. I can think of several
> GMs whom it fits -- Tal and Stein come immediately to mind -- but I
> can't say they were ever actually described in those words. If I find
> something definite, I'll let you know.

Could this have been said in reference to Nezhmetdinov?

**I asked Chessville's readers. Our demographic is a bit different from the
Cafe, with lots of East Europeans, so maybe we can find out;op cit

--

A reader writes:

One famous GM describing another younger GM's style as being "dangerous -
like a drunk with a machine-gun" which @ the time I found rather amusing but
can't for the life of me remember who they were :) ..

Current guesses are Tal, Stein and Nezhmetdinov.

Anyone know better, when this was said, where said, which GM spoke of the
referenced GM, or where the quotation is located in chess literature?

--

Phil

Date: 08 Aug 2008 07:25:45
From:
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

On Aug 7, 9:49=A0pm, thumbody <[email protected] > wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > =A0 Having engaged in considerable amicable correspondence with Spinrad=
,
> > and having an ongoing working relationship with him on his ChessCafe
> > column, I can assure you that he does not fit your vulgar description.
> > In my experience, his modesty/arrogance ratio is somewhere between 99-
> > to-1 and 100-to-zero.
>
> Ok Taylor, I accept your chastisement & apologise to Mr Spinrad for my
> rudeness.

Well, a small spark of civility in the vitriol-suffused darkness of
rgc. I am encouraged that all is not lost! :-)

> It was the wee small hours, cold, dark & lonely & as I
> fingered my keyboard I hungered for some, any sort of feedback..
>
> Considering the nature of arrogance & the game of chess do you not think
> it probable that someone expunged of this common human trait, someone on
> the way to Valhalla or Nirvana like the Pope or the Dalai Lama for
> examples, might prove hugely ineffective when pawn-storms, fianchettoed
> bishops & exchange sacs. are the order of the day?..

Chess is unusual, in that within it, paranoia is a rational outlook.

> On a lighter note - I was going to enquire of Phil but realising his
> Chessville commitments & also your involvement with ChessCafe

I have very little involvement with ChessCafe any more, just editing
Jerry Spinrad's column, which means mainly that I find relevant games
and annotate them. Eight or nine years of reading nothing but chess
books and reviewing them was enough.

> this may
> fall on deaf ears - but somewhere I remember one famous GM describing
> another younger GM's style as being "dangerous - like a drunk with a
> machine-gun" which @ the time I found rather amusing but can't for the
> life of me remember who they were :) ..

Hmmmm. I vaguely recall hearing that phrase, but cannot place it.
Might not even have been in a chess context. I can think of several
GMs whom it fits -- Tal and Stein come immediately to mind -- but I
can't say they were ever actually described in those words. If I find
something definite, I'll let you know.

Date: 08 Aug 2008 11:49:04
From: thumbody
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

[email protected] wrote:
.
> Having engaged in considerable amicable correspondence with Spinrad,
> and having an ongoing working relationship with him on his ChessCafe
> column, I can assure you that he does not fit your vulgar description.
> In my experience, his modesty/arrogance ratio is somewhere between 99-
> to-1 and 100-to-zero.

Ok Taylor, I accept your chastisement & apologise to Mr Spinrad for my
rudeness. It was the wee small hours, cold, dark & lonely & as I
fingered my keyboard I hungered for some, any sort of feedback..

Considering the nature of arrogance & the game of chess do you not think
it probable that someone expunged of this common human trait, someone on
the way to Valhalla or Nirvana like the Pope or the Dalai Lama for
examples, might prove hugely ineffective when pawn-storms, fianchettoed
bishops & exchange sacs. are the order of the day?..

On a lighter note - I was going to enquire of Phil but realising his
Chessville commitments & also your involvement with ChessCafe this may
fall on deaf ears - but somewhere I remember one famous GM describing
another younger GM's style as being "dangerous - like a drunk with a
machine-gun" which @ the time I found rather amusing but can't for the
life of me remember who they were :) ..

t.

Date: 07 Aug 2008 08:42:32
From:
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

On Aug 7, 11:06=A0am, thumbody <[email protected] > wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> .
>
> > =A0 I think you have Spinrad confused with Innes. The poster "Chess
> > One," who uses the spelling "Mottorshead" here, is Phil Innes. Using
> > Google search, I could find no instance of Jeremy Spinrad doing that.
>
> What on earth are you rabbiting on about Taylor? There is absolutely no
> confusion in my mind. Spinrad in his posts to rgc consistently misspells
> Mottershead thus: "Motterhead"

Checking again, I do see several occurences of "Motterhead" in
Spinrad posts. I was referring to the spelling "Mottorshead."

> I've pointed this discrepency out to him

I hope you spelled "discrepancy" correctly when you did.

> & he continues on his merry way which could mean a) I'm a killfiled
> entity or more likely b) he's an arrogant arsehole..

Having engaged in considerable amicable correspondence with Spinrad,
and having an ongoing working relationship with him on his ChessCafe
column, I can assure you that he does not fit your vulgar description.
In my experience, his modesty/arrogance ratio is somewhere between 99-
to-1 and 100-to-zero.

> I'm not a spell-bee nazi & note that Spinrad, Innes & others frequently
> misspell, but for a high-placed academe like Spinrad to abjure genuine
> correction on a 'name' he likes to toss around - frankly, it pisses me
> off.

Such a degree of anger seems misplaced and disproportionate.

Date: 08 Aug 2008 01:06:16
From: thumbody
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

[email protected] wrote:
.
> I think you have Spinrad confused with Innes. The poster "Chess
> One," who uses the spelling "Mottorshead" here, is Phil Innes. Using
> Google search, I could find no instance of Jeremy Spinrad doing that.

What on earth are you rabbiting on about Taylor? There is absolutely no
confusion in my mind. Spinrad in his posts to rgc consistently misspells
Mottershead thus: "Motterhead" I've pointed this discrepency out to him
& he continues on his merry way which could mean a) I'm a killfiled
entity or more likely b) he's an arrogant arsehole..

I'm not a spell-bee nazi & note that Spinrad, Innes & others frequently
misspell, but for a high-placed academe like Spinrad to abjure genuine
correction on a 'name' he likes to toss around - frankly, it pisses me
off. Look, click on this following link & tell me honestly if you can
find Brian's name spelled incorrectly..

http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=626&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a..

t.

Date: 07 Aug 2008 06:27:45
From:
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

On Aug 7, 4:25=A0am, thumbody <[email protected] > wrote:
> Mike Murray wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:25:26 -0400, "Chess One" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > >As for the other Brian, Mottorshead seems to have disappeared entirely=
. One
> > >wonders after such brave pronouncements, why?
>
> Mike sez..
>
> > He posts regularly on the USCF forums. =A0Don't you follow these forums=
?
> > If not, you could ask Polgar or PT to forward you his posts.
>
> Personally, I'd rather have Mr Mottershead on my side. He did all that
> work off his own back, for no money. More to the point, why does Spinrad
> persist in spelling his name wrong. I mean is this old dog stuff or is
> Spinrad just another arrogant academic?..

I think you have Spinrad confused with Innes. The poster "Chess
One," who uses the spelling "Mottorshead" here, is Phil Innes. Using
Google search, I could find no instance of Jeremy Spinrad doing that.

Date: 05 Aug 2008 15:17:50
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:25:26 -0400, "Chess One" <[email protected] >
wrote:

>As for the other Brian, Mottorshead seems to have disappeared entirely. One
>wonders after such brave pronouncements, why?

>Phil Innes

He posts regularly on the USCF forums. Don't you follow these forums?
If not, you could ask Polgar or PT to forward you his posts.

Date: 07 Aug 2008 18:25:27
From: thumbody
Subject: Re: Where is Mottorshead?

Mike Murray wrote:
>
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:25:26 -0400, "Chess One" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >As for the other Brian, Mottorshead seems to have disappeared entirely. One
> >wonders after such brave pronouncements, why?

Mike sez..
> He posts regularly on the USCF forums. Don't you follow these forums?
> If not, you could ask Polgar or PT to forward you his posts.

Personally, I'd rather have Mr Mottershead on my side. He did all that
work off his own back, for no money. More to the point, why does Spinrad
persist in spelling his name wrong. I mean is this old dog stuff or is
Spinrad just another arrogant academic?..

t.