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Main
Date: 14 Feb 2008 15:02:15
From: Chess One
Subject: What is Fischer saying to Castro?
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My old colleague Christophe Bouton has put up several fascinating pictures,
especially of the Havanna 66 event. I have seen some others from this event;
Larry Evans playing k Taimanov, with 'Che' Guevara looking on. That is on
k's double music CD
Christophe also shows Che at his own game, but, and how topical, also shows
RJF saying something to Castro. What, does anyone know, did he say to him?
See
http://echecs64.blog.20minutes.fr/archive/2007/03/04/sylvain-zinser-raconte-son-olympiades-de-la-havane-1966.html
And here is the text in French
La r�gie des tabacs sortit aussi des cigares, cigarettes et allumettes aux
armes du tournoi des Nations. La c�r�monie officielle d'ouverture eut lieu
le 25 au soir, en pr�sence de Fidel Castro. Je ne vis pas un seul poil de sa
barbe car les Fran�ais �taient plac�s trop loin, mais de formidables
ovations salu�rent son arriv�e. Le ministre de l'�ducation nationale
pronon�a une br�ve allocution de bienvenue. Le serment olympique fut
prononc� en fran�ais par Chiaramonti, en allemand par W. Baumgartner, en
anglais par l'am�ricain Robert Byrne, en russe par le champion du monde
Tigran Petrossian, en espagnol par le num�ro un cubain, Eleazar Jimenez, et
des acclamations sans fin salu�rent l'apparition du champion du monde et du
ma�tre cubain. La manifestation se termina par un ballet �chiqu�en
repr�sentant une partie c�l�bre jou�e entre le tenant du titre mondial
Emanuel Lasker et celui qui allait le lui prendre, � La Havane pr�cis�ment,
le Cubain Jose Ra�l Capablanca. Une anecdote: apr�s l'inauguration, quelques
personnalit�s se retrouv�rent en petit comit�. Fidel Castro engagea une
partie avec le joueur mexicain Terrezaz. Bobby Fischer vint au secours de ce
dernier, tandis que Petrossian et le Bulgare Padevsky venaient � la
rescousse de Castro. Le nombre l'emporta!
Oui, Bobby �tait l� en chair et en os!
Un des grands �v�nements de l'Olympiade fut la pr�sence de l'�quipe des
�tats-Unis qui arriva le 23 de Mexico et sur la participation de laquelle
des bruits contradictoires coururent jusqu'au dernier moment. Les Yankees
trouv�rent � Cuba un accueil aussi chaleureux que les autres �quipes, la
politique internationale faisant place � la paix comme cela avait �t� jadis
le cas pour les Jeux Olympiques de la Gr�ce antique. Rappelons que l'ann�e
pr�c�dente, Bobby Fischer avait �t� invit� au M�morial Capablanca de La
Havane, mais le D�partement d'�tat lui avait interdit de se rendre � Cuba.
La difficult� avait �t� tourn�e, Bobby jouant du Manhattan Chess Club par
t�lex!
---
Enfin! Ici dessiller les yeux de quelqu'un, lui les pieds qui fourmillent!
Cordiale! Phil Innes
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Date: 16 Feb 2008 01:30:24
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: What is Fischer saying to Castro?
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"Hey, Fidel! Do those legs go all the way up?"
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Date: 14 Feb 2008 13:56:41
From:
Subject: Re: What is Fischer saying to Castro?
|
On Feb 14, 4:46=A0pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> On Feb 14, 3:02 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > My old colleague Christophe Bouton has put up several fascinating
> > pictures,
> > especially of the Havanna 66 event. I have seen some others from this
> > event;
>
> > Larry Evans playing k Taimanov, with 'Che' Guevara looking on. That i=
s
> > on
> > k's double music CD
>
> > Christophe also shows Che at his own game, but, and how topical, also
> > shows
> > RJF saying something to Castro. What, does anyone know, did he say to hi=
m?
> > See
>
> >http://echecs64.blog.20minutes.fr/archive/2007/03/04/sylvain-zinser-r...
>
> > And here is the text in French
>
> > La r=E9gie des tabacs sortit aussi des cigares, cigarettes et allumettes=
aux
> > armes du tournoi des Nations. La c=E9r=E9monie officielle d'ouverture eu=
t lieu
> > le 25 au soir, en pr=E9sence de Fidel Castro. Je ne vis pas un seul poil=
de
> > sa
> > barbe car les Fran=E7ais =E9taient plac=E9s trop loin, mais de formidabl=
es
> > ovations salu=E8rent son arriv=E9e. Le ministre de l'=C9ducation nationa=
le
> > pronon=E7a une br=E8ve allocution de bienvenue. Le serment olympique fut=
> > prononc=E9 en fran=E7ais par Chiaramonti, en allemand par W. Baumgartner=
, en
> > anglais par l'am=E9ricain Robert Byrne, en russe par le champion du mond=
e
> > Tigran Petrossian, en espagnol par le num=E9ro un cubain, Eleazar Jimene=
z,
> > et
> > des acclamations sans fin salu=E8rent l'apparition du champion du monde =
et
> > du
> > ma=EEtre cubain. La manifestation se termina par un ballet =E9chiqu=E9en=
> > repr=E9sentant une partie c=E9l=E8bre jou=E9e entre le tenant du titre m=
ondial
> > Emanuel Lasker et celui qui allait le lui prendre, =E0 La Havane
> > pr=E9cis=E9ment,
> > le Cubain Jose Ra=FAl Capablanca. Une anecdote: apr=E8s l'inauguration,
> > quelques
> > personnalit=E9s se retrouv=E8rent en petit comit=E9. Fidel Castro engage=
a une
> > partie avec le joueur mexicain Terrezaz. Bobby Fischer vint au secours d=
e
> > ce
> > dernier, tandis que Petrossian et le Bulgare Padevsky venaient =E0 la
> > rescousse de Castro. Le nombre l'emporta!
>
> > Oui, Bobby =E9tait l=E0 en chair et en os!
>
> > Un des grands =E9v=E9nements de l'Olympiade fut la pr=E9sence de l'=E9qu=
ipe des
> > =C9tats-Unis qui arriva le 23 de Mexico et sur la participation de laque=
lle
> > des bruits contradictoires coururent jusqu'au dernier moment. Les Yankee=
s
> > trouv=E8rent =E0 Cuba un accueil aussi chaleureux que les autres =E9quip=
es, la
> > politique internationale faisant place =E0 la paix comme cela avait =E9t=
=E9
> > jadis
> > le cas pour les Jeux Olympiques de la Gr=E8ce antique. Rappelons que l'a=
nn=E9e
> > pr=E9c=E9dente, Bobby Fischer avait =E9t=E9 invit=E9 au M=E9morial Capab=
lanca de La
> > Havane, mais le D=E9partement d'=C9tat lui avait interdit de se rendre =
=E0 Cuba.
> > La difficult=E9 avait =E9t=E9 tourn=E9e, Bobby jouant du Manhattan Chess=
Club par
> > t=E9lex!
> > ---
>
> > Enfin! Ici dessiller les yeux de quelqu'un, lui les pieds qui fourmillen=
t!
> > Cordiale! Phil Innes
>
> =A0 Brady's bio of Fischer describes several meetings and conversations
> between Fischer and Castro during the 1966 Olympiad. Looking at the
> photo, however, it's difficult to reconcile it with any of Brady's
> descriptions. Two of the encounters were outdoors, one at a
> candlelight banquet, another at a huge daytime simul, but this photo
> appears to be taken indoors.
>
> **yes, i think i have seen this one before, but cannot remember any
> circumstance attending on it - nor no commetary
>
> =A0Another occasion was a smaller, private
> banquet, but for that Castro is described as wearing formal attire,
> while the photo seems to show him in his usual military fatigues.
> =A0 The man partly obscured behind Fischer looks like he might be Soviet
> GM Leonid Stein. If so, this could be the occasion of Fischer's most
> interesting conversation with Castro, reported by Brady on pages
> 115-116 of "Profile of a Prodigy." Fischer challenged Stein to a match
> with terms of first to 10 wins, draws not counting. Surprisingly,
> Stein accepted.
>
> **Ha!
>
> =A0He and Fischer went over to Castro to ask if he would
> be willing to host the match, and Castro agreed. Fischer was quite
> excited at this prospect, but the whole thing fell through the next
> day when the Soviet authorities nixed the idea.
>
> **Ah!
>
> =A0 However, I can't say with any certainty that the photo depicts this
> occasion.
>
> **Larry Evans was there.
Yes, I would think Evans would be a much better source than Brady on
this matter.
> I wonder if he or LP can throw some light on this?
> I have asked L. Evans previously if he can comment on the /atmosphere/ of
> these engagements. Of course, since he is so well read at large, this is
> book material for him, rather than interview material. Nevertheless... I
> have written before that much of what Evans writes is resented as being
> overdone in terms of Fischer, yet little of it seems understood! And there=
> is an almost Shakespearean cast on this scene, with Guevara, Castro, himse=
lf
> and Taimanov too.
>
> **I should /so/ like to interview Larry Evans, especially inviting questio=
ns
> from a very broad range of opinion. He has [laugh] told me 'maybe', which
> means next year, which maybe never arrives. But the period is fascinating,=
> ain't it? What did all these people actually know about each other, and ho=
w
> did they behave altogether?
>
> Cordially, Phil Innes- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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Date: 14 Feb 2008 17:17:56
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: What is Fischer saying to Castro?
|
<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Feb 14, 4:46 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> **Larry Evans was there.
Yes, I would think Evans would be a much better source than Brady on
this matter.
---
Should I press him on it?
Sometimes in the flow of one's own times, it is hard to gain perspective so
as to understand interest and import of subsequent generations. And this was
a rara avis connection, much more mid cold-war, than Rejavik was in 72 - as
much The Great Game as Chess. And such circumstances surrounding the US
president; his current and subsequent actions as we know little from actual
participants to real /engagements/ [Fr.] !
Recently I read Topalov's sense of what it was /like/ to be in
Kalmykia/Elista, surrounded by secret police and everything suspected of
being bugged the hell out of, and of a massive sense of oppression on that
place.
Just a dozen years previous to this Hollywood rather liked Havana, via
Bogart and others, and the whole scene for the Americas is now somewhat
biblical - the lost sheep, et ca,. but a sheep with other experience than
the mainland flock ~ and to continue the metaphor, what is valuable to us
about learning of that? Or are we become as monolithic and
parano~claustrophobic as Russia itself, so that we no longer care about
them, but care they care about us, and that only?
Beyond the chessic aspects of these affairs, there are powerful cultural
ties and implications and futures.
Phil Innes
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Date: 14 Feb 2008 17:43:54
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: What is Fischer saying to Castro?
|
Dear Taylor Kingston,
One other thought, Taylor. Should the gent agree, will you work with me on
an interview? I think I can guarantee a half dozen GM questions to be
included, maybe 10. I think this does sufficient honor to him, and without
it, it may be passable on his part. And the nature of interviews is really
to ask questions which can be answered, rather than 'posed to' a person as
clever rhetoric or something.
There seem to be many questions that are yet not answered, but which are in
a broad sense, strong in our appreciation of chess to date.
You have an issue with him, and that is good. I do not think you and I
cannot agree on the basis of questions; and maybe include a third person [or
a forth] to sharpen our points, to get something out there which it always
seemed to me to be as much about the times as the participants in them.
I do understand you like writers who have substantial experience on
interrogating Russian materials on chess [such as Cafferty]. I have
exchanged several thousand messages on this subject with Russians. And with
some of them they say - "can we get this person to interview before too
late?"
I don't wish to make only some morbid comment here - but in the history of
American Greats, are we Americans not as negligent historically as the
Russians of their own to inquire of real witness to how it was?
Consider this very open-ended and public proposal if you will, and even unto
your correspondent, Mr. Caffery, and decide if you should like to proceed
withall.
Cordially, Phil Innes
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Date: 14 Feb 2008 13:05:41
From:
Subject: Re: What is Fischer saying to Castro?
|
On Feb 14, 3:02=A0pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> My old colleague Christophe Bouton has put up several fascinating pictures=
,
> especially of the Havanna 66 event. I have seen some others from this even=
t;
>
> Larry Evans playing k Taimanov, with 'Che' Guevara looking on. That is =
on
> k's double music CD
>
> Christophe also shows Che at =A0his own game, but, and how topical, also s=
hows
> RJF saying something to Castro. What, does anyone know, did he say to him?=
> See
>
> http://echecs64.blog.20minutes.fr/archive/2007/03/04/sylvain-zinser-r...
>
> And here is the text in French
>
> La r=E9gie des tabacs sortit aussi des cigares, cigarettes et allumettes a=
ux
> armes du tournoi des Nations. La c=E9r=E9monie officielle d'ouverture eut =
lieu
> le 25 au soir, en pr=E9sence de Fidel Castro. Je ne vis pas un seul poil d=
e sa
> barbe car les Fran=E7ais =E9taient plac=E9s trop loin, mais de formidables=
> ovations salu=E8rent son arriv=E9e. Le ministre de l'=C9ducation nationale=
> pronon=E7a une br=E8ve allocution de bienvenue. Le serment olympique fut
> prononc=E9 en fran=E7ais par Chiaramonti, en allemand par W. Baumgartner, =
en
> anglais par l'am=E9ricain Robert Byrne, en russe par le champion du monde
> Tigran Petrossian, en espagnol par le num=E9ro un cubain, Eleazar Jimenez,=
et
> des acclamations sans fin salu=E8rent l'apparition du champion du monde et=
du
> ma=EEtre cubain. La manifestation se termina par un ballet =E9chiqu=E9en
> repr=E9sentant une partie c=E9l=E8bre jou=E9e entre le tenant du titre mon=
dial
> Emanuel Lasker et celui qui allait le lui prendre, =E0 La Havane pr=E9cis=
=E9ment,
> le Cubain Jose Ra=FAl Capablanca. Une anecdote: apr=E8s l'inauguration, qu=
elques
> personnalit=E9s se retrouv=E8rent en petit comit=E9. Fidel Castro engagea =
une
> partie avec le joueur mexicain Terrezaz. Bobby Fischer vint au secours de =
ce
> dernier, tandis que Petrossian et le Bulgare Padevsky venaient =E0 la
> rescousse de Castro. Le nombre l'emporta!
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Oui, Bobby =E9tait l=E0 en chair et en os!
>
> Un des grands =E9v=E9nements de l'Olympiade fut la pr=E9sence de l'=E9quip=
e des
> =C9tats-Unis qui arriva le 23 de Mexico et sur la participation de laquell=
e
> des bruits contradictoires coururent jusqu'au dernier moment. Les Yankees
> trouv=E8rent =E0 Cuba un accueil aussi chaleureux que les autres =E9quipes=
, la
> politique internationale faisant place =E0 la paix comme cela avait =E9t=
=E9 jadis
> le cas pour les Jeux Olympiques de la Gr=E8ce antique. Rappelons que l'ann=
=E9e
> pr=E9c=E9dente, Bobby Fischer avait =E9t=E9 invit=E9 au M=E9morial Capabla=
nca de La
> Havane, mais le D=E9partement d'=C9tat lui avait interdit de se rendre =E0=
Cuba.
> La difficult=E9 avait =E9t=E9 tourn=E9e, Bobby jouant du Manhattan Chess C=
lub par
> t=E9lex!
> ---
>
> Enfin! Ici dessiller les yeux de quelqu'un, lui les pieds qui fourmillent!=
> Cordiale! Phil Innes
Brady's bio of Fischer describes several meetings and conversations
between Fischer and Castro during the 1966 Olympiad. Looking at the
photo, however, it's difficult to reconcile it with any of Brady's
descriptions. Two of the encounters were outdoors, one at a
candlelight banquet, another at a huge daytime simul, but this photo
appears to be taken indoors. Another occasion was a smaller, private
banquet, but for that Castro is described as wearing formal attire,
while the photo seems to show him in his usual military fatigues.
The man partly obscured behind Fischer looks like he might be Soviet
GM Leonid Stein. If so, this could be the occasion of Fischer's most
interesting conversation with Castro, reported by Brady on pages
115-116 of "Profile of a Prodigy." Fischer challenged Stein to a match
with terms of first to 10 wins, draws not counting. Surprisingly,
Stein accepted. He and Fischer went over to Castro to ask if he would
be willing to host the match, and Castro agreed. Fischer was quite
excited at this prospect, but the whole thing fell through the next
day when the Soviet authorities nixed the idea.
However, I can't say with any certainty that the photo depicts this
occasion.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Feb 2008 16:46:11
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: What is Fischer saying to Castro?
|
<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Feb 14, 3:02 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> My old colleague Christophe Bouton has put up several fascinating
> pictures,
> especially of the Havanna 66 event. I have seen some others from this
> event;
>
> Larry Evans playing k Taimanov, with 'Che' Guevara looking on. That is
> on
> k's double music CD
>
> Christophe also shows Che at his own game, but, and how topical, also
> shows
> RJF saying something to Castro. What, does anyone know, did he say to him?
> See
>
> http://echecs64.blog.20minutes.fr/archive/2007/03/04/sylvain-zinser-r...
>
> And here is the text in French
>
> La r�gie des tabacs sortit aussi des cigares, cigarettes et allumettes aux
> armes du tournoi des Nations. La c�r�monie officielle d'ouverture eut lieu
> le 25 au soir, en pr�sence de Fidel Castro. Je ne vis pas un seul poil de
> sa
> barbe car les Fran�ais �taient plac�s trop loin, mais de formidables
> ovations salu�rent son arriv�e. Le ministre de l'�ducation nationale
> pronon�a une br�ve allocution de bienvenue. Le serment olympique fut
> prononc� en fran�ais par Chiaramonti, en allemand par W. Baumgartner, en
> anglais par l'am�ricain Robert Byrne, en russe par le champion du monde
> Tigran Petrossian, en espagnol par le num�ro un cubain, Eleazar Jimenez,
> et
> des acclamations sans fin salu�rent l'apparition du champion du monde et
> du
> ma�tre cubain. La manifestation se termina par un ballet �chiqu�en
> repr�sentant une partie c�l�bre jou�e entre le tenant du titre mondial
> Emanuel Lasker et celui qui allait le lui prendre, � La Havane
> pr�cis�ment,
> le Cubain Jose Ra�l Capablanca. Une anecdote: apr�s l'inauguration,
> quelques
> personnalit�s se retrouv�rent en petit comit�. Fidel Castro engagea une
> partie avec le joueur mexicain Terrezaz. Bobby Fischer vint au secours de
> ce
> dernier, tandis que Petrossian et le Bulgare Padevsky venaient � la
> rescousse de Castro. Le nombre l'emporta!
>
> Oui, Bobby �tait l� en chair et en os!
>
> Un des grands �v�nements de l'Olympiade fut la pr�sence de l'�quipe des
> �tats-Unis qui arriva le 23 de Mexico et sur la participation de laquelle
> des bruits contradictoires coururent jusqu'au dernier moment. Les Yankees
> trouv�rent � Cuba un accueil aussi chaleureux que les autres �quipes, la
> politique internationale faisant place � la paix comme cela avait �t�
> jadis
> le cas pour les Jeux Olympiques de la Gr�ce antique. Rappelons que l'ann�e
> pr�c�dente, Bobby Fischer avait �t� invit� au M�morial Capablanca de La
> Havane, mais le D�partement d'�tat lui avait interdit de se rendre � Cuba.
> La difficult� avait �t� tourn�e, Bobby jouant du Manhattan Chess Club par
> t�lex!
> ---
>
> Enfin! Ici dessiller les yeux de quelqu'un, lui les pieds qui fourmillent!
> Cordiale! Phil Innes
Brady's bio of Fischer describes several meetings and conversations
between Fischer and Castro during the 1966 Olympiad. Looking at the
photo, however, it's difficult to reconcile it with any of Brady's
descriptions. Two of the encounters were outdoors, one at a
candlelight banquet, another at a huge daytime simul, but this photo
appears to be taken indoors.
**yes, i think i have seen this one before, but cannot remember any
circumstance attending on it - nor no commetary
Another occasion was a smaller, private
banquet, but for that Castro is described as wearing formal attire,
while the photo seems to show him in his usual military fatigues.
The man partly obscured behind Fischer looks like he might be Soviet
GM Leonid Stein. If so, this could be the occasion of Fischer's most
interesting conversation with Castro, reported by Brady on pages
115-116 of "Profile of a Prodigy." Fischer challenged Stein to a match
with terms of first to 10 wins, draws not counting. Surprisingly,
Stein accepted.
**Ha!
He and Fischer went over to Castro to ask if he would
be willing to host the match, and Castro agreed. Fischer was quite
excited at this prospect, but the whole thing fell through the next
day when the Soviet authorities nixed the idea.
**Ah!
However, I can't say with any certainty that the photo depicts this
occasion.
**Larry Evans was there. I wonder if he or LP can throw some light on this?
I have asked L. Evans previously if he can comment on the /atmosphere/ of
these engagements. Of course, since he is so well read at large, this is
book material for him, rather than interview material. Nevertheless... I
have written before that much of what Evans writes is resented as being
overdone in terms of Fischer, yet little of it seems understood! And there
is an almost Shakespearean cast on this scene, with Guevara, Castro, himself
and Taimanov too.
**I should /so/ like to interview Larry Evans, especially inviting questions
from a very broad range of opinion. He has [laugh] told me 'maybe', which
means next year, which maybe never arrives. But the period is fascinating,
ain't it? What did all these people actually know about each other, and how
did they behave altogether?
Cordially, Phil Innes
|
|
