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Date: 23 Sep 2008 18:08:57
From: SAT W-7
Subject: What WCC was the most exciting ? Fischer vs Spasky ?
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Because of all the drama surrounding this match or was there a better
fight.....
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Date: 28 Sep 2008 17:47:06
From:
Subject: Re: What WCC was the most exciting ? Fischer vs Spasky ?
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On Sep 27, 1:29=A0pm, "Andrew B." <[email protected] > wrote:
> On 25 Sep, 15:36, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > On Sep 23, 9:08=A0pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
>
> > > Because of all the drama surrounding this match or was there a better
> > > fight.....
>
> > =A0 A few perhaps relevant facts, referring to world championship
> > matches since the first "official" one, Steinitz-Zukertort 1886, and
> > excluding post-1993 FIDE pseudo-championships:
>
> > =A0 Fewest draws: One, in Steinitz-Chigorin 1889 (+10 -6 =3D1)
> > =A0 Most draws: 40, in Karpov-Kasparov 1984-85 (abandoned with score +5
> > -3 =3D40)
> > =A0 Most decisive games: 18, in Steinitz-Chigorin 1892 (=3D+10 -8 =3D5)
> > =A0 Fewest decisive games: Two, in Lasker Schlechter 1910 (+1 -1 =3D8),
>
> Lasker-Schlechter is more interesting than that makes it sound - one
> of the games is featured in "Draw!" by Heidenfeld.
I agree, it was an interesting match, with some good games. One
thing that made it dramatic was its brevity, only 10 games. This in
turn was due to Lasker's manhandling of Janowski +7 -1 =3D2 in a non-
title exhibition series in 1909. The lopsided result made Schlechter's
chances look so slim that no one was willing to sponsor a longer
match. But Schlechter was a much tougher nut to crack, psychologically
very different from Janowski.
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Date: 27 Sep 2008 10:29:48
From: Andrew B.
Subject: Re: What WCC was the most exciting ? Fischer vs Spasky ?
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On 25 Sep, 15:36, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sep 23, 9:08=A0pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
>
> > Because of all the drama surrounding this match or was there a better
> > fight.....
>
> =A0 A few perhaps relevant facts, referring to world championship
> matches since the first "official" one, Steinitz-Zukertort 1886, and
> excluding post-1993 FIDE pseudo-championships:
>
> =A0 Fewest draws: One, in Steinitz-Chigorin 1889 (+10 -6 =3D1)
> =A0 Most draws: 40, in Karpov-Kasparov 1984-85 (abandoned with score +5
> -3 =3D40)
> =A0 Most decisive games: 18, in Steinitz-Chigorin 1892 (=3D+10 -8 =3D5)
> =A0 Fewest decisive games: Two, in Lasker Schlechter 1910 (+1 -1 =3D8),
Lasker-Schlechter is more interesting than that makes it sound - one
of the games is featured in "Draw!" by Heidenfeld.
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Date: 26 Sep 2008 17:15:21
From: zdrakec
Subject: Re: What WCC was the most exciting ? Fischer vs Spasky ?
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On Sep 25, 9:14=A0pm, EJAY <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Sep 25, 10:36=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 23, 9:08=A0pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
>
> > > Because of all the drama surrounding this match or was there a better
> > > fight.....
>
> > =A0 A few perhaps relevant facts, referring to world championship
> > matches since the first "official" one, Steinitz-Zukertort 1886, and
> > excluding post-1993 FIDE pseudo-championships:
>
> > =A0 Fewest draws: One, in Steinitz-Chigorin 1889 (+10 -6 =3D1)
> > =A0 Most draws: 40, in Karpov-Kasparov 1984-85 (abandoned with score +5
> > -3 =3D40)
> > =A0 Most decisive games: 18, in Steinitz-Chigorin 1892 (=3D+10 -8 =3D5)
> > =A0 Fewest decisive games: Two, in Lasker Schlechter 1910 (+1 -1 =3D8),
> > and Kasparov-Kramnik 2000 (+0 -2 =3D13)
> > =A0 Biggest lead change: Steinitz went from being down -3 (+1 -4) after
> > the first five games, to winning 12=BD-7=BD against Zukertort in 1886, =
a
> > net swing of 8 points.
> > =A0 Most lopsided: Lasker defeated Janowski +8 -0 =3D3 in 1910.
> > =A0 Most wins by one player: 11, achieved twice by Alekhine, against
> > Bogolyubov in 1929 and against Euwe in 1937.
>
> > =A0 For pure over-the-board excitement, fighting spirit and interesting
> > chess, a match I would strongly recommend is Alekhine-Euwe 1935, which
> > Euwe won +9 -8 =3D13.
>
> Are there any good books on that Match? It was amazing a "non
> Professional" player was strong enough to knock off Alekhine.Euwe has
> been wrongly accused of being the "weakest" World Champion.When you
> consider that Capablanca,Botvinnik,Reshevsky,Fine,Keres,Bogolyubov
> just to name a few were still playing and you BEAT Alekhine no way
> this guy is the weakest.Still consider Alekhine's My Best Games to be
> a classic chess book (probably my favorite)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
"Extreme Chess", by C.J.S. Purdy, covers both the Alekhine-Euwe
matches in detail.
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Date: 26 Sep 2008 06:34:44
From:
Subject: Re: What WCC was the most exciting ? Fischer vs Spasky ?
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On Sep 25, 10:14=A0pm, EJAY <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Sep 25, 10:36=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 23, 9:08=A0pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
>
> > > Because of all the drama surrounding this match or was there a better
> > > fight.....
>
> > =A0 A few perhaps relevant facts, referring to world championship
> > matches since the first "official" one, Steinitz-Zukertort 1886, and
> > excluding post-1993 FIDE pseudo-championships:
>
> > =A0 Fewest draws: One, in Steinitz-Chigorin 1889 (+10 -6 =3D1)
> > =A0 Most draws: 40, in Karpov-Kasparov 1984-85 (abandoned with score +5
> > -3 =3D40)
> > =A0 Most decisive games: 18, in Steinitz-Chigorin 1892 (=3D+10 -8 =3D5)
> > =A0 Fewest decisive games: Two, in Lasker Schlechter 1910 (+1 -1 =3D8),
> > and Kasparov-Kramnik 2000 (+0 -2 =3D13)
> > =A0 Biggest lead change: Steinitz went from being down -3 (+1 -4) after
> > the first five games, to winning 12=BD-7=BD against Zukertort in 1886, =
a
> > net swing of 8 points.
> > =A0 Most lopsided: Lasker defeated Janowski +8 -0 =3D3 in 1910.
> > =A0 Most wins by one player: 11, achieved twice by Alekhine, against
> > Bogolyubov in 1929 and against Euwe in 1937.
>
> > =A0 For pure over-the-board excitement, fighting spirit and interesting
> > chess, a match I would strongly recommend is Alekhine-Euwe 1935, which
> > Euwe won +9 -8 =3D13.
>
> Are there any good books on that Match?
Apparently they co-wrote a book about the match. I was originally in
Dutch but English translations are available:
http://tinyurl.com/4w4d5f
I've never seen it, but considering the authors I would guess it
ain't half-bad. Checking the biliography for Skinner & Verhoeven's
massive Alekhine collection, I see also that books on the match were
written by Blumich, Kmoch, and Purdy.
> It was amazing a "non
> Professional" player was strong enough to knock off Alekhine. Euwe has
> been wrongly accused of being the "weakest" World Champion.
There is some justification for that tag. Euwe's reign was the
shortest until Tal's, and he was never dominant in tournaments in the
manner of Lasker, Capablanca, or Alekhine. Unlike Alekhine, Euwe
didn't really enjoy being world champion (he was modest, while
Alekhine was egotistical), and he was probably relieved to be rid of
the title.
On the other hand, even the "weakest" world champion has to be damn
strong, and Euwe was. I have great admiration for him as a player, and
even more as a man. You might enjoy his biography:
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review283.pdf
> When you
> consider that Capablanca,Botvinnik,Reshevsky,Fine,Keres,Bogolyubov
> just to name a few were still playing
"Still playing" seems kind of an odd way to put it. Capa and Bogo
had been around a long time then, but the international careers of
Botvinnik, Reshevsky, Fine, and Keres were just getting started in
1935. I tend to doubt that any of them could have won a match with
Alekhine at that time.
> and you BEAT Alekhine no way
> this guy is the weakest.Still consider Alekhine's My Best Games to be
> a classic chess book (probably my favorite)
Indeed a great book, by a great champion. I enjoy Alekhine's games
and style more than any other player's.
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Date: 25 Sep 2008 19:14:01
From: EJAY
Subject: Re: What WCC was the most exciting ? Fischer vs Spasky ?
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On Sep 25, 10:36=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sep 23, 9:08=A0pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
>
> > Because of all the drama surrounding this match or was there a better
> > fight.....
>
> =A0 A few perhaps relevant facts, referring to world championship
> matches since the first "official" one, Steinitz-Zukertort 1886, and
> excluding post-1993 FIDE pseudo-championships:
>
> =A0 Fewest draws: One, in Steinitz-Chigorin 1889 (+10 -6 =3D1)
> =A0 Most draws: 40, in Karpov-Kasparov 1984-85 (abandoned with score +5
> -3 =3D40)
> =A0 Most decisive games: 18, in Steinitz-Chigorin 1892 (=3D+10 -8 =3D5)
> =A0 Fewest decisive games: Two, in Lasker Schlechter 1910 (+1 -1 =3D8),
> and Kasparov-Kramnik 2000 (+0 -2 =3D13)
> =A0 Biggest lead change: Steinitz went from being down -3 (+1 -4) after
> the first five games, to winning 12=BD-7=BD against Zukertort in 1886, a
> net swing of 8 points.
> =A0 Most lopsided: Lasker defeated Janowski +8 -0 =3D3 in 1910.
> =A0 Most wins by one player: 11, achieved twice by Alekhine, against
> Bogolyubov in 1929 and against Euwe in 1937.
>
> =A0 For pure over-the-board excitement, fighting spirit and interesting
> chess, a match I would strongly recommend is Alekhine-Euwe 1935, which
> Euwe won +9 -8 =3D13.
Are there any good books on that Match? It was amazing a "non
Professional" player was strong enough to knock off Alekhine.Euwe has
been wrongly accused of being the "weakest" World Champion.When you
consider that Capablanca,Botvinnik,Reshevsky,Fine,Keres,Bogolyubov
just to name a few were still playing and you BEAT Alekhine no way
this guy is the weakest.Still consider Alekhine's My Best Games to be
a classic chess book (probably my favorite)
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Date: 25 Sep 2008 20:09:58
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: What WCC was the most exciting ? Fischer vs Spasky ?
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Thank you for all that info..
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Date: 25 Sep 2008 19:09:15
From: EJAY
Subject: Re: What WCC was the most exciting ? Fischer vs Spasky ?
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On Sep 25, 9:43=A0am, Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Sep 24, 2:08=A0am, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
>
> > Because of all the drama surrounding this match or was there a better
> > fight.....
>
> The only problem with the 1972 F-S match is the low standard of
> Spassky's play in the first 9 games. Games 10-21 were really good; in
> those 12 games the score was only 3-1 to Fischer with 8 draws (I
> think).
>
> The best WC match was the K-K one in NY and Lyons in 1990. Kasparov
> was on top form with loads of novelties but Karpov very nearly held
> him off.
>
> The second-*worst* one was K-K in Seville in 1987 - all those Bxf7+
> Grunfelds! Yaawn.
>
> But the absolute worst, by a country mile, was Kasparov-Anand NY 1995.
> WTF was going on there!?! There were one or two good games.... but
> most games were non-events.
Leko-Kramnik was a big yawn. I suspect Petrosian-Botvinnik was not
that exciting. But at least it was decisive !!
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Date: 25 Sep 2008 19:07:55
From: EJAY
Subject: Re: What WCC was the most exciting ? Fischer vs Spasky ?
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On Sep 23, 9:08=A0pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> Because of all the drama surrounding this match or was there a better
> fight.....
I wish I would have been around to witness the Alekhine-Capablanca
Match. Also the Botvinnik-Bronstein Match must have been exciting
since Bronstein had chances to win. Too bad Fischer in his prime vs
Kasparov never happened. I still think a Karpov-Fischer Match would
have been competitive.
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Date: 25 Sep 2008 07:36:06
From:
Subject: Re: What WCC was the most exciting ? Fischer vs Spasky ?
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On Sep 23, 9:08=A0pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> Because of all the drama surrounding this match or was there a better
> fight.....
A few perhaps relevant facts, referring to world championship
matches since the first "official" one, Steinitz-Zukertort 1886, and
excluding post-1993 FIDE pseudo-championships:
Fewest draws: One, in Steinitz-Chigorin 1889 (+10 -6 =3D1)
Most draws: 40, in Karpov-Kasparov 1984-85 (abandoned with score +5
-3 =3D40)
Most decisive games: 18, in Steinitz-Chigorin 1892 (=3D+10 -8 =3D5)
Fewest decisive games: Two, in Lasker Schlechter 1910 (+1 -1 =3D8),
and Kasparov-Kramnik 2000 (+0 -2 =3D13)
Biggest lead change: Steinitz went from being down -3 (+1 -4) after
the first five games, to winning 12=BD-7=BD against Zukertort in 1886, a
net swing of 8 points.
Most lopsided: Lasker defeated Janowski +8 -0 =3D3 in 1910.
Most wins by one player: 11, achieved twice by Alekhine, against
Bogolyubov in 1929 and against Euwe in 1937.
For pure over-the-board excitement, fighting spirit and interesting
chess, a match I would strongly recommend is Alekhine-Euwe 1935, which
Euwe won +9 -8 =3D13.
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Date: 25 Sep 2008 06:43:09
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: What WCC was the most exciting ? Fischer vs Spasky ?
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On Sep 24, 2:08=A0am, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> Because of all the drama surrounding this match or was there a better
> fight.....
The only problem with the 1972 F-S match is the low standard of
Spassky's play in the first 9 games. Games 10-21 were really good; in
those 12 games the score was only 3-1 to Fischer with 8 draws (I
think).
The best WC match was the K-K one in NY and Lyons in 1990. Kasparov
was on top form with loads of novelties but Karpov very nearly held
him off.
The second-*worst* one was K-K in Seville in 1987 - all those Bxf7+
Grunfelds! Yaawn.
But the absolute worst, by a country mile, was Kasparov-Anand NY 1995.
WTF was going on there!?! There were one or two good games.... but
most games were non-events.
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Date: 24 Sep 2008 07:21:55
From: zdrakec
Subject: Re: What WCC was the most exciting ? Fischer vs Spasky ?
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On Sep 23, 8:08=A0pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> Because of all the drama surrounding this match or was there a better
> fight.....
Karpov-Kasparov, 1985.
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Date: 24 Sep 2008 06:27:00
From:
Subject: Re: What WCC was the most exciting ? Fischer vs Spasky ?
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On Sep 23, 9:08=A0pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> Because of all the drama surrounding this match or was there a better
> fight.....
It depends partly on what kind of drama you mean. Do you mean
strictly on the chessboard, a close match with lots of exciting,
decisive games and few dull draws? Or drama due to circustances away
from the board, as with Fischer-Spassky or the Karpov-Korchnoi
matches?
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Date: 24 Sep 2008 01:23:43
From: help bot
Subject: Re: What WCC was the most exciting ? Fischer vs Spasky ?
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On Sep 23, 9:08=A0pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> Because of all the drama surrounding this match or was there a better
> fight.....
I would have to say the one between Mr. Morphy
and Mr. Anderssen.
Well, in any case, such a question should never
be "pre-loaded" with the desired answer, unless of
course you are not interested in learning answers.
-- help bot
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