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Main
Date: 21 Oct 2007 00:57:44
From: Sanny
Subject: Welcome back at GetClub Chess.
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I was out of town for a week. Came back and saw 2 things.
100s of new games were played at GetClub by new players.
Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
I saw Beginner Level won arround 10-15 games while Master Level lost
4-5 games with zebediah.
So Zebediah is still beating the master Level as usual.
Can someone tell me why the game is loosing to Zebediah. What are the
weaknesses in the game that need to be sorted out.
I saw Help Bot lost a game with Normal Level. It happened twice with
Help bot that he lost the game in between. Is there something wrong
with Helpbot Computer. As other 100 games played by other players none
of them got lost in between.
Why it is only happening to Help Bot. Is he clicking resign now button
many often?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 23 Oct 2007 00:36:52
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Welcome back at GetClub Chess.
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On Oct 23, 10:57 am, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 22, 11:42 pm, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I remember you have played 100s of games and it never happened that
> > your game finished in between. Is there any thing changed in your
> > computer settings that last 2 games were not finished properly?
>
> Some programs constantly update themselves;
> one example is my anti-virus software. and
> another is my internet browser. In fact, these
> automatic updates can occur without warning at
> any time, and that includes while I am playing
> at GetClub. Such an update will dramatically
> slow down my own work, such as deleting an
> email or switching to a different Web page.
>
> What I need to do is log on using Internet
> Explorer instead of Mozilla Firefox, and see if
> the same problems occur or not. Note that
> GetClub is not the only Web site with problems;
> I signed up for a trial of some software and
> after logging on, noticed that something was
> not quite right; it turns out that IE installs a
> needed program, while Firefox just sits there
> and leaves you wondering why nothing seems
> to work right. That was on a very popular site,
> unrelated to chess, which charges serious
> money for its service beyond the trial period.
> The site requires installation of "Active-X",
> which is strange since I thought by now, that
> would be included with every current version of
> Windows.
>
> -- help bot
Game played by Easy Level at GetClub and Jester. Jester was white and
took a Knight in Middle game, Still Easy level gave tough fight and
Jester took 71 moves to win this game.
Please go through the game below and suggest what improvement can be
done in this game.
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Jester: White
Easy Level: Black (GetClub.com Easy Level)
Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM11200&game=Chess
1.e2-e4 e7-e5
2.Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6
3.Bf1-b5 d7-d6
4.Ke1-g1 Bc8-d7
5.d2-d4 Ng8-f6
6.Nb1-c3 Nc6-b4
7.Bb5xd7+ Nf6xd7
8.a2-a3 Nb4-c6
9.d4-d5 Nc6-e7
10.Bc1-e3 Nd7-f6
11.Be3-g5 Ne7-g6
12.Qd1-d3 c7-c6
13.Qd3-c4 c6xd5
14.Nc3xd5 Ra8-b8
15.Bg5xf6 g7xf6
16.Qc4-a4+ Qd8-d7
17.Qa4xa7 Qd7-c6
18.Bf6-g5 h7-h6
19.Bg5-e3 Bf8-e7
20.c2-c4 Ke8-g8
21.b2-b3 Rc8-a8
22.Qa7-b6 Be7-d8
23.Qb6xc6 b7xc6
24.Nd5-b4 c6-c5
25.Nb4-d5 Kg8-h8
26.b3-b4 Ra8-a6
27.b4xc5 Ng6-h4
28.Nf3xh4 Bd8xh4
29.c5xd6 Ra6xd6
30.g2-g3 Bh4-g5
31.Be3xg5 h6xg5
32.c4-c5 Ra6-a7
33.c5-c6 Rd8xd6
34.Rf1-b1 Rd6xc6
35.h2-h3 Kh8-g8
36.Rb1-b8+ Kg8-h7
37.f2-f3 Rc6-c2
38.a3-a4 f7-f6
39.a4-a5 Ra7-d7
40.a5-a6 Rd7-a7
41.f3-f4 g5xf4
42.g3xf4 e5xf4
43.e4-e5 f6xe5
44.Rb8-e8 f4-f3
45.Re8xe5 Rc2-g2+
46.Kg1-h1 Rg2-g6
47.Re5-h5+ Kh7-g8
48.Nd5-e7+ Ra7xe7
49.a6-a7 Re7xa7
50.Ra1xa7 Rg6-d6
51.Rh5-f5 Rd6-d1+
52.Kh1-h2 Rd1-d2+
53.Kh2-g3 Kg8-h7
54.Rf5-f4 Rd2-e2
55.Kg3xf3 Re2-b2
56.Rf4-g4 Rb2-b3+
57.Kf3-e2 Rb3-b2+
58.Ke2-d1 Rb2-f2
59.Ra7xg7+ Kh7-h8
60.Rg7-g5 Rf2-f7
61.Rg5-h5+ Rf7-h7
62.Rh5xh7+ Kh8xh7
63.h3-h4 Kh7-h8
64.h4-h5 Kh8-h7
65.Rg4-g6 Kh7-h8
66.Kd1-d2 Kh8-h7
67.Kd2-e3 Kh7-h8
68.Ke3-f4 Kh8-h7
69.Kf4-g5 Kh7-h8
70.Kg5-f6 Kh8-h7
71.Kf6-f7
Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM11200&game=Chess
White took 71 moves despite having won a Knight on 15th move. As if
Bishop was killed white could trap the Queen.
In latter game Easy level played quite well thats the reasion Jestor
took so long in winning the game.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 22 Oct 2007 22:57:15
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Welcome back at GetClub Chess.
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On Oct 22, 11:42 pm, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> I remember you have played 100s of games and it never happened that
> your game finished in between. Is there any thing changed in your
> computer settings that last 2 games were not finished properly?
Some programs constantly update themselves;
one example is my anti-virus software. and
another is my internet browser. In fact, these
automatic updates can occur without warning at
any time, and that includes while I am playing
at GetClub. Such an update will dramatically
slow down my own work, such as deleting an
email or switching to a different Web page.
What I need to do is log on using Internet
Explorer instead of Mozilla Firefox, and see if
the same problems occur or not. Note that
GetClub is not the only Web site with problems;
I signed up for a trial of some software and
after logging on, noticed that something was
not quite right; it turns out that IE installs a
needed program, while Firefox just sits there
and leaves you wondering why nothing seems
to work right. That was on a very popular site,
unrelated to chess, which charges serious
money for its service beyond the trial period.
The site requires installation of "Active-X",
which is strange since I thought by now, that
would be included with every current version of
Windows.
-- help bot
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Date: 22 Oct 2007 21:42:43
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Welcome back at GetClub Chess.
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On Oct 22, 11:31 pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 22, 3:48 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I find Zebediah makes 10-12 depth analysis while GetClub Master Level
> > goes till 9-10 depth only. That is the reasion Zebediah sacrifices its
> > pieces and after 12 moves get a strong position which Master Level
> > could not see.
>
> > While Beginner Level keeps beating the new players and has increased
> > its rating from 600 to 950. While Master Level has gone below 500.
>
> If you really do have new players, that would explain,
> in part, why the Beginner level has gone up in rating;
> but another reason, obviously, is that I am no longer
> beating it like a carrot. :>D
>
> -- help bot
Since last game with Normal Level the game was finished in between
your ratings has been adjusted to what it was before the game played
and your scores have been changed to older values.
So now you can take up the challenge.
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
I remember you have played 100s of games and it never happened that
your game finished in between. Is there any thing changed in your
computer settings that last 2 games were not finished properly?
As Earlier this problem was not there with your computer.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 22 Oct 2007 11:31:32
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Welcome back at GetClub Chess.
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On Oct 22, 3:48 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> I find Zebediah makes 10-12 depth analysis while GetClub Master Level
> goes till 9-10 depth only. That is the reasion Zebediah sacrifices its
> pieces and after 12 moves get a strong position which Master Level
> could not see.
>
> While Beginner Level keeps beating the new players and has increased
> its rating from 600 to 950. While Master Level has gone below 500.
If you really do have new players, that would explain,
in part, why the Beginner level has gone up in rating;
but another reason, obviously, is that I am no longer
beating it like a carrot. : >D
-- help bot
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Date: 22 Oct 2007 01:48:53
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Welcome back at GetClub Chess.
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On Oct 22, 10:25 am, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> Sanny wrote:
> > I was out of town for a week. Came back and saw 2 things.
>
> > 100s of new games were played at GetClub by new players.
>
> > Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> > I saw Beginner Level won arround 10-15 games while Master Level lost
> > 4-5 games with zebediah.
>
> > So Zebediah is still beating the master Level as usual.
>
> > Can someone tell me why the game is loosing to Zebediah. What are the
> > weaknesses in the game that need to be sorted out.
>
> > I saw Help Bot lost a game with Normal Level. It happened twice with
> > Help bot that he lost the game in between. Is there something wrong
> > with Helpbot Computer. As other 100 games played by other players none
> > of them got lost in between.
>
> > Why it is only happening to Help Bot. Is he clicking resign now button
> > many often?
>
> First of all, help bot is a fish -- a total patzer, so it
> should come as no surprise.... wait a minute!
>
> How is it that help bot could click the "resigns"
> button when it wasn't even his turn to move? Unless
> it is your turn to move, the "resigns" button is not on
> screen and generally speaking, people don't often
> resign in winning positions -- except on this Web site,
> on GetClub. Hmmm. :>D
>
> Maybe you are pointing the finger in the wrong
> direction here. Maybe the problem is that GetClub's
> chess program does not work correctly. Maybe we
> have all seen this very same problem before. Think
> hard now.
>
> Sanny, the reason Zebediah is beating your program
> on any level is that your program can easily be beaten
> by any strong human player and by virtually any other
> chess program in the world. Note that while you have
> worked to placate critics by speeding things up a bit,
> any operator can take as long as he wants or as long
> as it takes in order to beat your program -- without
> penalty.
>
> For instance if I were to play Fritz at two seconds per
> move against any level at GetClub, I think Fritz would
> win. But suppose that in one game against your
> Master level Zeb sees that Fritz stands worse: he could
> simply give it a bit more time until it regains the
> advantage, then drop back to two seconds again. There
> is no penalty for the opponent taking a lot of time, just
> as at one time there was no penalty for those people
> who deliberately avoided resuming lost or drawn games.
> (Many of those folks disappeared when you fixed that
> leak.)
>
> I don't see any point in continuing to worry over the
> critics here who expect you to produce a 2000+ chess
> program, but instead you might want to focus a bit on
> eliminating bugs and getting the game to play perfectly
> legal chess (that includes recognizing the existence of
> draws).
>
> When I try to delete relatively unimportant stuff on
> other sites, such as an email or a list of stocks I am
> watching, they ask me to check a box to confirm the
> deletion, or else they ask to check a box AND then
> click "delete". But on GetClub there are numerous
> cases where the program has forfeited people in won
> positions without so much as a how-do-you-do. You
> could easily make it so that no more of these issues
> come up, by doing what I pointed out months ago is
> done at RedHotPawn, and what I have since noted is
> done on ChessWorld, and that is force a confirmation
> before the program ever forfeits anyone and tries to
> say it was a voluntary resignation.
>
> But I expect the real problem here is a bug in the
> program, not a false-signal from any "resigns" button;
> that is because it happens as often when I am not on
> move as when it is my turn, and when I am not on the
> move there is no such button -- not on my screen,
> anyway. (BTW, I haven't resigned in a winning position
> since around twenty years or more ago, when I was a
> really, really weak player.)
>
> -- help bot- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
There was a few things done. So now even if you press resign now
button by mistake it will not resign. It will resign when you press
resign button after 4 seconds have passed. So Only when it is your
Move and 4 seconds has passed Resign Now button will Resign.
I hope this will clear this problem.
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
I find Zebediah makes 10-12 depth analysis while GetClub Master Level
goes till 9-10 depth only. That is the reasion Zebediah sacrifices its
pieces and after 12 moves get a strong position which Master Level
could not see.
While Beginner Level keeps beating the new players and has increased
its rating from 600 to 950. While Master Level has gone below 500.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 21 Oct 2007 22:25:35
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Welcome back at GetClub Chess.
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Sanny wrote:
> I was out of town for a week. Came back and saw 2 things.
>
> 100s of new games were played at GetClub by new players.
>
> Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> I saw Beginner Level won arround 10-15 games while Master Level lost
> 4-5 games with zebediah.
>
> So Zebediah is still beating the master Level as usual.
>
> Can someone tell me why the game is loosing to Zebediah. What are the
> weaknesses in the game that need to be sorted out.
>
> I saw Help Bot lost a game with Normal Level. It happened twice with
> Help bot that he lost the game in between. Is there something wrong
> with Helpbot Computer. As other 100 games played by other players none
> of them got lost in between.
>
> Why it is only happening to Help Bot. Is he clicking resign now button
> many often?
First of all, help bot is a fish -- a total patzer, so it
should come as no surprise.... wait a minute!
How is it that help bot could click the "resigns"
button when it wasn't even his turn to move? Unless
it is your turn to move, the "resigns" button is not on
screen and generally speaking, people don't often
resign in winning positions -- except on this Web site,
on GetClub. Hmmm. : >D
Maybe you are pointing the finger in the wrong
direction here. Maybe the problem is that GetClub's
chess program does not work correctly. Maybe we
have all seen this very same problem before. Think
hard now.
Sanny, the reason Zebediah is beating your program
on any level is that your program can easily be beaten
by any strong human player and by virtually any other
chess program in the world. Note that while you have
worked to placate critics by speeding things up a bit,
any operator can take as long as he wants or as long
as it takes in order to beat your program -- without
penalty.
For instance if I were to play Fritz at two seconds per
move against any level at GetClub, I think Fritz would
win. But suppose that in one game against your
Master level Zeb sees that Fritz stands worse: he could
simply give it a bit more time until it regains the
advantage, then drop back to two seconds again. There
is no penalty for the opponent taking a lot of time, just
as at one time there was no penalty for those people
who deliberately avoided resuming lost or drawn games.
(Many of those folks disappeared when you fixed that
leak.)
I don't see any point in continuing to worry over the
critics here who expect you to produce a 2000+ chess
program, but instead you might want to focus a bit on
eliminating bugs and getting the game to play perfectly
legal chess (that includes recognizing the existence of
draws).
When I try to delete relatively unimportant stuff on
other sites, such as an email or a list of stocks I am
watching, they ask me to check a box to confirm the
deletion, or else they ask to check a box AND then
click "delete". But on GetClub there are numerous
cases where the program has forfeited people in won
positions without so much as a how-do-you-do. You
could easily make it so that no more of these issues
come up, by doing what I pointed out months ago is
done at RedHotPawn, and what I have since noted is
done on ChessWorld, and that is force a confirmation
before the program ever forfeits anyone and tries to
say it was a voluntary resignation.
But I expect the real problem here is a bug in the
program, not a false-signal from any "resigns" button;
that is because it happens as often when I am not on
move as when it is my turn, and when I am not on the
move there is no such button -- not on my screen,
anyway. (BTW, I haven't resigned in a winning position
since around twenty years or more ago, when I was a
really, really weak player.)
-- help bot
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