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Main
Date: 12 Jul 2008 04:21:40
From: Sanny
Subject: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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I played Beginner. I played Handicap Level and got a Knight Extra.
At GetClub with Handicap Level you can turn any level with a Knight/
Bishop/ Rook/ Queen Extra.
I thought that beginer without a Knight will be easy for me to win.
But when I played the game Beginner gave me Check Mate even without a
Knight.
And that too in just 11 Moves.
Rember I was having a Knight Extra. Still Beginner was able to win the
game.
Game Played between sanjay11 and beginner_x_N at GetClub.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (Black)
beginner_x_N: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM22495&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White -- Black
(beginner_x_N) -- (sanjay11)
1. e2-e4{0} e7-e5{10}
2. Nb1-c3{16} Nb8-c6{4}
3. Bf1-c4{8} d7-d6{4}
4. Qd1-h5{12} g7-g6{14}
5. Qh5-f3{6} Ng8-f6{8}
6. Nc3-b5{10} a7-a6{4}
7. Nb5-c7{6} Qd8-c7{8}
8. Qf3-f6{8} Rh8-g8{12}
9. c2-c3{6} Bf8-e7{8}
10. Qf6-f7{6} Ke8-d7{16}
11. Bc4-e6{2}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (Black)
beginner_x_N: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM22495&game=Chess
So you can see even with a Knight down Beginner is tough on me.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 14 Jul 2008 04:00:26
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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> Sanny, what next? Are you to be the next
> Kolmogorov - the founder of the probability
> theory and a co-creator of the cohomological
> product? Or the next Shannon - the creator
> of the Information Theory, who proposed thechessevaluation function method? Are you about
> to get the next Noble prize? Do you plan to replace
> Bill Gates - the co-author of the early best Basic
> interpreter, and, in the past, the world's richest
> man for long years? C'mon, Sanny, share your dream
> with us, go for it.
Dreams do not give satisfaction reality does. So I only dream what is
real or more probable. I like to be content with what I have than
worry about what I do not have.
Well one dream is to make GetClub one of worlds best Program. Very
hard but not impossible.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 14 Jul 2008 21:41:53
From: Patrick Volk
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:00:26 -0700 (PDT), Sanny
<[email protected] > wrote:
>> Sanny, what next? Are you to be the next
>> Kolmogorov - the founder of the probability
>> theory and a co-creator of the cohomological
>> product? Or the next Shannon - the creator
>> of the Information Theory, who proposed thechessevaluation function method? Are you about
>> to get the next Noble prize? Do you plan to replace
>> Bill Gates - the co-author of the early best Basic
>> interpreter, and, in the past, the world's richest
>> man for long years? C'mon, Sanny, share your dream
>> with us, go for it.
>
>Dreams do not give satisfaction reality does. So I only dream what is
>real or more probable. I like to be content with what I have than
>worry about what I do not have.
>
>Well one dream is to make GetClub one of worlds best Program. Very
>hard but not impossible.
I would be satisfied actually if it did what you say it does. If I did
what you do, I don't think I'd be where I am now. If I say, try it one
more time, I know if it doesn't work, I'll be coming home with a
couple hundred thousand in equipment. I also know my customers talk to
each other, so new systems won't be forthcoming.
The trick is to dream something just beyond attainable. Surprising
when you find out how attainable it is.
But, you have to be prepared to work for it. Work hard, and work
smart. If you can't learn, you're not going to succeed. I can say I've
gone to museums to find information.
>
>Bye
>Sanny
>
>Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 14 Jul 2008 03:06:03
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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On Jul 12, 4:21 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> I played Beginner. I played Handicap Level
> and got a Knight Extra.
>
> At GetClub with Handicap Level you can turn any level with a Knight/
> Bishop/ Rook/ Queen Extra.
>
> I thought that beginer without a Knight will be easy for me to win.
Your English is as good as your chess site and program.
> But when I played the game Beginner gave me
> Check Mate even without a Knight.
>
> And that too in just 11 Moves.
No, it did not. It would still take another 2 moves
to checkmate you.
> White -- Black
> (beginner_x_N) -- (sanjay11)
>
> 1. e2-e4{0} e7-e5{10}
> 2. Nb1-c3{16} Nb8-c6{4}
> 3. Bf1-c4{8} d7-d6{4}
Unnecessarily passive. First develop
your king bishop 3... Bc5 (instead of
blocking it with pd6). Black possible
instant threats are not dangerous:
4.Qf3 Nf6
or
4.Qh5 Qf6 5.O-O Ne7
> 4. Qd1-h5{12} g7-g6{14}
> 5. Qh5-f3{6} Ng8-f6{8}
> 6. Nc3-b5{10}
It's hard to be critical about the side
which gives odds of entire knight.
> 6. ... a7-a6{4}
This error is a bit interesting.
On one hand every chess intro tells
you: in the opening you have to develop
your pieces. Here 6... Bg7 is the
most natural developing move, while
6... Bg4 7.Nxc7+ Ke7 is for black ok
but a bit complicated. This Sanny's 6... a6
is a funny error because it follows
IM Silman's advice about chasing the
invading knights immediately. Well, not
this time.
> 7. Nb5-c7{6} Qd8-c7{8}
> 8. Qf3-f6{8} Rh8-g8{12}
> 9. c2-c3{6} Bf8-e7{8}
Sanny has committed a chess harakiri.
Was 9... Bg7 beyond your chess horizon?
> 10. Qf6-f7{6} Ke8-d7{16}
> 11. Bc4-e6{2}
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> sanjay11: (Black)
> beginner_x_N: (White)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM22495&game=Chess
>
> So you can see even with a Knight
> down Beginner is tough on me.
Indeed.
Sanny, what next? Are you to be the next
Kolmogorov - the founder of the probability
theory and a co-creator of the cohomological
product? Or the next Shannon - the creator
of the Information Theory, who proposed the
chess evaluation function method? Are you about
to get the next Noble prize? Do you plan to replace
Bill Gates - the co-author of the early best Basic
interpreter, and, in the past, the world's richest
man for long years? C'mon, Sanny, share your dream
with us, go for it.
Regards,
Wlod
PS. For the new rgc* participants: Sanny is not
a programmer (or a software specialist, it should
be obvious).
Sanny makes a few bucks by teaching Phil succesfully
a few things like English, logic, communication skills,
user friendly web site design... and some other things
less successfully, like a sense of humor and not taking
himself so seriously ALL THE TIME.
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Date: 14 Jul 2008 00:59:42
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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> I played a game between Micro-Max 4.0 andgetclubbeginner level.
> Micro-Max consists of 131 lines of C code and can be downloaded from
> this web page:
>
>
> The average thinking time of Micro-Max was 1.77 seconds. Here is the
> game:
Do you gave you Core 2 Duo to GetClub. I find you give weaker computer
to GetClub. Just Change that give Core2 Duo to GetClub Chess and then
tell me the result.
And do not use multiple processors As GetClub only uses single
processor.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 13 Jul 2008 04:32:14
From: zzz
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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Sanny, you misunderstand. People are asking for your source code so
they can help you make improvements and find bugs, not to steal
anything.
Right now you don't have anything worth stealing anyway. If you let
people help you, maybe some day you will.
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Date: 13 Jul 2008 00:06:20
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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> >instead of simply ignoring my questions concerning the internals of your
> >program it would be much nicer if you just said something like "no, i do
> >not reveal anything, my program is my big freaking secret"
>
> It's in Java, I bet you could find it off his site... If he does
> security like he (er, I'm sorry, his *team*) programs.
In case someone does it I will do all needed to put him 10 years in
Jail (Prision) And ask 1 million Dollar as Fine.
Patrick Volf are you a hacker? [email protected] Your email is with
me If you do any thing wrong I will catch you.
This group is full of Hackers. Save yourself !!!
Bye
Sanny
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Date: 13 Jul 2008 14:22:31
From: Patrick Volk
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 00:06:20 -0700 (PDT), Sanny
<[email protected] > wrote:
>> >instead of simply ignoring my questions concerning the internals of your
>> >program it would be much nicer if you just said something like "no, i do
>> >not reveal anything, my program is my big freaking secret"
>>
>> It's in Java, I bet you could find it off his site... If he does
>> security like he (er, I'm sorry, his *team*) programs.
>
>In case someone does it I will do all needed to put him 10 years in
>Jail (Prision) And ask 1 million Dollar as Fine.
Hmm.. You do realize Java code is exported to the target machine and
executed?
So you're willing to put the code on the persons' machine, but they're
not supposed to look at it. Curious.
You have it hosted in Phoenix?
>
>Patrick Volf are you a hacker? [email protected] Your email is with
>me If you do any thing wrong I will catch you.
As I said before, I have better things to do with my time. My job
depends a lot on trust, and I wouldn't compromise that.
I hack when I have to, but I'm much better at reverse engineering.
Listen to people enough, and you can not only figure out what their
program does, but how, and even the flaws, and where they're going to
have them if they're not known.
That is a useful skill, because that ability allows you to pick up
programs where the original person left in the middle. You can
ascertain what they were doing, and fill in their thoughts, in a
manner of speaking.
>
>This group is full of Hackers. Save yourself !!!
Find out how to fix your hard disk?
>
>Bye
>Sanny
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Date: 13 Jul 2008 18:58:28
From: Tobias Heidelmann
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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sorry, i cannot resist this. Your empty threats annoy me too much.
because you used a similar threat in a reply to me, i will respond to this.
But first, let me say that i do not think Patricks reply was nice. If
Sanny does not want to share, thats ok. It is his perfect right to keep
his code a secret, it is his work, after all. Nobody has any right to
critizise Sanny for that.
Sanny schrieb:
> In case someone does it I will do all needed to put him 10 years in
> Jail (Prision) And ask 1 million Dollar as Fine.
look, not everybody is located in the us. good luck in asking a million
dollars and 10 years prison from the jurisdiction of a european country
as a penalty for some guy who hacked a worthless site if no damage was
done. Things dont work in europe that way.
>
> Patrick Volf are you a hacker? [email protected] Your email is with
> me If you do any thing wrong I will catch you.
congrats, you have an ip and email of some guy who wrote something on
usenet.
Even if the same guy hacks your site, he would probably have another ip.
it is called dhcp and is a standard protocol that assigns ips dynamically.
Furhtermore, if some guy actually hacks your site, you have to get THIS
guys ip and perhaps email adress, but in case of the email i cannot see
how you could accomplish this, unless he sends it to you.
so, lets say you manage to get his ip. then you will have to make an
international case, because most likely it will be an ip from some
provider in another country. these things could actually take some time
and money.
And considering the potential damage you might suffer from the attack
(as far as i can see the damage is nil) i think it is very unlikely that
you might actually make a profit or much less put that bad guy in prison.
> This group is full of Hackers. Save yourself !!!
>
this is not only annoying, but laughable.
> Bye
> Sanny
ok, thaths it. i am done with this discussion. No hard feelings Sanny,
but making empty threats in reply to offers of help is not a nice way to
talk to people.
Greetings,
Tobias
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Date: 13 Jul 2008 00:02:46
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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> instead of simply ignoring my questions concerning the internals of your
> program it would be much nicer if you just said something like "no, i do
> not reveal anything, my program is my big freaking secret"
>
> greetings
> Tobias- Hide quoted text -
GetClub program is only for playing not for hacking Extra. If you do
it your IP Address is with me. And also your Email Account. Why will I
give you the code of my program?
Sorry I can't help you.
You can get 100s of Programs with Open Source with all code available.
Go and try there they will teach you how to play Chess and other
stuff.
Bye
Sanny
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Date: 13 Jul 2008 18:07:37
From: Tobias Heidelmann
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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Sanny schrieb:
> GetClub program is only for playing not for hacking Extra. If you do
> it your IP Address is with me. And also your Email Account. Why will I
> give you the code of my program?
Dude, CHILL!
I do not want to get your precious source code by any illegal means. Why
should i?!? You admit there are still bugs, the webdesign has room for
improvement, and so on. As you pointed out, there is enough open source
already, most probably there will be an engine or two in my linux
distribution, which i can use and modify legally. If i wanted to start
an online chess site or write a chess program, i would use these. No
need to reinvent the wheel if commercial interests are at stake.
The point is, it might be fun to build an engine from scratch. the point
of open source is, that development can be much faster, dynamic and more
fun because you do it in a community.
Well, as you do not want to share, thats fine. At least you said so
instead of ignoring such questions.
Greetings,
Tobias
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 11:00:38
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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> The rules ofchessare not that difficult to program.
>
> Did it ever occur to you that you should make sure it plays legalchess
> before trying to make the play better? =A0That's one of the most basic th=
ings
> you do.
See, that illegal move is made when it finds Mate in 2. It just plays
King in Check. This actually never hamper any game.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 10:58:34
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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> I have some suspicioun that it might even be selective search. That would
> explain the tactical blunders that people talk about regularly. He's trying
> to look at the plasible moves and is missing the tactical stuff because they
> don't apear reasonable at first glance.
>
> Unless the program is incredibly buggy (which is possible), a brute force
> with just a tiny bit of knowledge would be expected to play substantially
> better.
I am very satisfied with the Game GetClub is playing. I only wanted it
for general Players and not to compete with Fritz & Rybka which are
the leaders in Chess.
GetClub is just a penny in front of these Big programs.
GetClub Chess is not for competing with Chess Engines but only for
fun. and people wishing to pass there time playing Chess.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 13 Jul 2008 01:29:58
From: Tobias Heidelmann
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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Sanny schrieb:
>> I have some suspicioun that it might even be selective search. That would
>> explain the tactical blunders that people talk about regularly. He's trying
>> to look at the plasible moves and is missing the tactical stuff because they
>> don't apear reasonable at first glance.
>>
>> Unless the program is incredibly buggy (which is possible), a brute force
>> with just a tiny bit of knowledge would be expected to play substantially
>> better.
>
> I am very satisfied with the Game GetClub is playing. I only wanted it
> for general Players and not to compete with Fritz & Rybka which are
> the leaders in Chess.
>
> GetClub is just a penny in front of these Big programs.
>
> GetClub Chess is not for competing with Chess Engines but only for
> fun. and people wishing to pass there time playing Chess.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
instead of simply ignoring my questions concerning the internals of your
program it would be much nicer if you just said something like "no, i do
not reveal anything, my program is my big freaking secret"
greetings
Tobias
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Date: 13 Jul 2008 00:00:59
From: Patrick Volk
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
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On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 01:29:58 +0200, Tobias Heidelmann
<[email protected] > wrote:
>Sanny schrieb:
>>> I have some suspicioun that it might even be selective search. That would
>>> explain the tactical blunders that people talk about regularly. He's trying
>>> to look at the plasible moves and is missing the tactical stuff because they
>>> don't apear reasonable at first glance.
>>>
>>> Unless the program is incredibly buggy (which is possible), a brute force
>>> with just a tiny bit of knowledge would be expected to play substantially
>>> better.
>>
>> I am very satisfied with the Game GetClub is playing. I only wanted it
>> for general Players and not to compete with Fritz & Rybka which are
>> the leaders in Chess.
>>
>> GetClub is just a penny in front of these Big programs.
>>
>> GetClub Chess is not for competing with Chess Engines but only for
>> fun. and people wishing to pass there time playing Chess.
>>
>> Bye
>> Sanny
>>
>> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
>instead of simply ignoring my questions concerning the internals of your
>program it would be much nicer if you just said something like "no, i do
>not reveal anything, my program is my big freaking secret"
It's in Java, I bet you could find it off his site... If he does
security like he (er, I'm sorry, his *team*) programs.
>
>greetings
>Tobias
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 10:30:26
From: SBD
Subject: Re: I won Baby Level with Extra Rook
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On Jul 12, 12:03 pm, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> It took me 55 moves to win Baby Level with a Extra Rook.
>
> Am I still 1100+ Player?
You never were, not on your best day.
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 10:03:46
From: Sanny
Subject: I won Baby Level with Extra Rook
|
I was able to win the Baby Level with 1 Rook extra.
Game Played between sanjay11 and baby_x_R at GetClub.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
baby_x_R: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM22549&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White -- Black
(sanjay11) -- (baby_x_R)
1. e2-e4{4} e7-e5{0}
2. d2-d3{2} d7-d5{0}
3. e4-d5{2} Qd8-d5{2}
4. Nb1-c3{2} Bf8-b4{2}
5. Bc1-d2{4} Bb4-c3{2}
6. Bd2-c3{2} Ng8-f6{2}
7. Ng1-f3{2} Nb8-c6{2}
8. h2-h3{2} Ke8-g8{2}
9. a2-a3{4} Bc8-d7{4}
10. Bf1-e2{4} Ra8-d8{8}
11. Ke1-g1{4} Bd7-f5{4}
12. b2-b4{4} b7-b6{2}
13. Qd1-d2{10} h7-h6{4}
14. Rf1-e1{6} Rd8-d6{4}
15. Be2-f1{14} Rd6-e6{10}
16. Qd2-e3{4} e5-e4{2}
17. d3-e4{4} Re6-e4{2}
18. Qe3-d2{8} Re4-e1{26}
19. Ra1-e1{4} Kg8-h8{6}
20. Nf3-e5{2} Nc6-e5{2}
21. Qd2-d5{6} Nf6-d5{2}
22. Re1-e5{2} Bf5-e6{4}
23. Bc3-b2{8} c7-c6{2}
24. Bf1-c4{4} b6-b5{2}
25. Bc4-d5{2} Be6-d5{2}
26. Re5-e7{4} a7-a6{2}
27. Re7-a7{20} f7-f6{2}
28. Ra7-a6{6} h6-h5{4}
29. a3-a4{4} b5-a4{2}
30. Ra6-a4{2} Kh8-h7{2}
31. Bb2-d4{4} Kh7-h6{2}
32. c2-c3{6} f6-f5{2}
33. Ra4-a5{4} g7-g6{4}
34. b4-b5{2} c6-b5{2}
35. Ra5-b5{2} Bd5-c4{4}
36. Rb5-c5{2} Bc4-e6{2}
37. Rc5-c6{4} Be6-g8{2}
38. Rc6-c8{4} Bg8-b3{2}
39. c3-c4{2} h5-h4{2}
40. c4-c5{2} g6-g5{2}
41. c5-c6{4} Bb3-e6{2}
42. -c8-h8{4} Kh6-g6{0}
43. c6-c7{6} Kg6-f7{8}
44. Rc7-c8{Q}{4} Be6-c8{2}
45. Bh8-c8{2} g5-g4{2}
46. h3-g4{4} f5-g4{2}
47. -c8-c6{4} h4-h3{2}
48. g2-h3{2} g4-h3{2}
49. Kg1-h2{2} Kf7-e8{4}
50. c6-c7{4} Ke8-d8{2}
51. Bd4-e5{2} Kd8-e8{0}
52. Kh2-h3{4} Re8-f8{6}
53. Kh3-g4{2} Rf8-g8{2}
54. Kg4-g5{2} Rg8-f8{0}
55. Kg5-f6{4} Kf8-e8{0}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
baby_x_R: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM22549&game=Chess
It took me 55 moves to win Baby Level with a Extra Rook.
Am I still 1100+ Player?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 09:47:33
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
|
> Dude, are you serious?
> this makes me very curious.. i mean, you openly admit that you have
> virtually no understanding ofchesswhatsoever and YET you are writing
> somechesssoftware? how do you do that?
> your software must use some algorithm to evaluate a given position. As
> you cannot do that yourself,how do you teach a computer? do you use
> other existing algorithms?
See I know all rules of Chess. But when I play a game I make so many
mistakes that I am never able to win Beginner Level. It takes my
pieces like birthday cake.
I have good understanding of Chess by getting Help Bot suggestions. He
has helped me a lot. Thats the reasion I seek help from people on the
group. Help Bot suggestions and analysis help me understand the
weaknesses in the game.
Now, I do not find any thing wrong with the game. Yes it makes a few
illegal moves that needs to be corrected.
Beginner Level used to play better than me the first day the program
was launched. I was so happy 2 years back but players on this group
beat it like cucumber and sliced and eat it.
I am just 1100 rated as per the players here. I often play using
Rybka help. Then I am able to beat even the Easy and Normal Levels.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 12:14:33
From: Guest
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
|
"Sanny" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:7f4a5232-9efa-497e-a696-ba6398b904aa@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> Dude, are you serious?
>> this makes me very curious.. i mean, you openly admit that you have
>> virtually no understanding ofchesswhatsoever and YET you are writing
>> somechesssoftware? how do you do that?
>> your software must use some algorithm to evaluate a given position. As
>> you cannot do that yourself,how do you teach a computer? do you use
>> other existing algorithms?
>
> See I know all rules of Chess. But when I play a game I make so many
> mistakes that I am never able to win Beginner Level. It takes my
> pieces like birthday cake.
>
> I have good understanding of Chess by getting Help Bot suggestions. He
> has helped me a lot. Thats the reasion I seek help from people on the
> group. Help Bot suggestions and analysis help me understand the
> weaknesses in the game.
>
> Now, I do not find any thing wrong with the game.
> Yes it makes a few illegal moves that needs to be corrected.
Stunned amazement..... ROFL!!!
Man, that problem should not exist.
If you are *still* having illegal move problems after all this time (2
years?), you have got to be one BAD programmer.
The rules of chess are not that difficult to program.
Did it ever occur to you that you should make sure it plays legal chess
before trying to make the play better? That's one of the most basic things
you do.
Did it ever occur to you that even an *average* programmer could write a
chess program from scratch within a month, and it play fully legal chess.
And that even with material & mobility (which is trivial to program), I
suspect it would be at least as strong as yours is now? (If Glaurung is
beating your program with a 1sec vs. 30min thinking difference, then you
have *serious* problems.)
You really don't need to know much about chess to write a basic chess
program that is very tactically strong. Just be even a mediocre programmer
with some basic knowledge of chess and a chess programming.
Sheesh.... "Yes it makes a few illegal moves that needs to be corrected."
What an admission of incompetence. I can't believe you admitted that.
There are a lot of references on computer chess programming. You have to go
out of your way to not see them.
Maybe it's time you stop avoiding them?? Actually learn a few things about
what you are trying to program.
Maybe it's time for you to throw away your first program and start over and
concentrate on the basics? The basics would probably give you a real,
verifiable 2000+ rating on today's hardware. (Most beginning chess
programmers go through at least a couple 'learning' programs before they
learn enough to write a real one.)
>
> Beginner Level used to play better than me the first day the program
> was launched. I was so happy 2 years back but players on this group
> beat it like cucumber and sliced and eat it.
>
> I am just 1100 rated as per the players here. I often play using
> Rybka help. Then I am able to beat even the Easy and Normal Levels.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
>
>
>
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 19:16:24
From: Tobias Heidelmann
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
|
Sanny schrieb:
> See I know all rules of Chess. But when I play a game I make so many
> mistakes that I am never able to win Beginner Level. It takes my
> pieces like birthday cake.
>
> I have good understanding of Chess by getting Help Bot suggestions.
the reason i asked you ist because i am a student of computer science.
game theory in general is of some interest to me. Unfortunately you did
not reply to my other message concerning GetClub and open source. Have
you thought about that option?
And i am still curious. Do you want to reveal some internals of your
engine? The main question is, how do you compare two positions. ( i mean
positions when the engine has left the opening book)
Say, position A and a position B which is a couple of moves away from
position A. Do you compare material? possibilities of tactics (pins,
forks, ets.), and also, how do you weigh the possible moves. Which move
is more probable to occur in the game? how do you answer that question?
did you write your engine from scratch? or did you start with some
existing engines?
Greetings,
Tobias
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 12:25:44
From: Guest
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
|
"Tobias Heidelmann" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sanny schrieb:
>
>> See I know all rules of Chess. But when I play a game I make so many
>> mistakes that I am never able to win Beginner Level. It takes my
>> pieces like birthday cake.
>>
>> I have good understanding of Chess by getting Help Bot suggestions.
>
> the reason i asked you ist because i am a student of computer science.
> game theory in general is of some interest to me. Unfortunately you did
> not reply to my other message concerning GetClub and open source. Have you
> thought about that option?
I doubt that he has.
He's rather secretive about his program. Not sure if it's shame or
arrogance.
> And i am still curious. Do you want to reveal some internals of your
> engine? The main question is, how do you compare two positions. ( i mean
Many people have asked him about some internal details, and he always
ignores the question.
I think he's so secretive because he believes he's such a good programmer
and his chess program is so good that he's right on the verge becoming
internationally famous and rich. (And unfortunately, I'm not joking....)
> positions when the engine has left the opening book)
> Say, position A and a position B which is a couple of moves away from
> position A. Do you compare material? possibilities of tactics (pins,
> forks, ets.), and also, how do you weigh the possible moves. Which move is
> more probable to occur in the game? how do you answer that question?
Considering Sanny has said he knew nothing about computer chess when he
started, and that he has done no research during this time, it's uncertain
as to what kind of program structure he has. (Do we believe him about his
lack of research.... I think most of us do, else the program would have
progressed much faster.)
I have some suspicioun that it might even be selective search. That would
explain the tactical blunders that people talk about regularly. He's trying
to look at the plasible moves and is missing the tactical stuff because they
don't apear reasonable at first glance.
Unless the program is incredibly buggy (which is possible), a brute force
with just a tiny bit of knowledge would be expected to play substantially
better.
> did you write your engine from scratch? or did you start with some
> existing engines?
Considering the quality of play and that it's still making illegal moves and
tactical blunders, it is safe to say that he started from scratch with
little to no knowldge of chess programming.
> Greetings,
> Tobias
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 14:08:04
From: Frisco Del Rosario
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
|
In article <[email protected] >, "Guest" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think he's so secretive because he believes he's such a good programmer
> and his chess program is so good that he's right on the verge becoming
> internationally famous and rich. (And unfortunately, I'm not joking....)
*That's* the thing that so amazes me, that Sanny really believes that
his ugly, unusable, unfriendly, insufficiently tested software is a few
steps from the big time.
But his planewreck piece of shit GetClub Chess did make me realize that
I've been too relaxed about the design stage in my own web development
project, so thanks for that.
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Date: 13 Jul 2008 09:51:47
From: Guest
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
|
"Frisco Del Rosario" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Guest" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I think he's so secretive because he believes he's such a good programmer
>> and his chess program is so good that he's right on the verge becoming
>> internationally famous and rich. (And unfortunately, I'm not joking....)
>
> *That's* the thing that so amazes me, that Sanny really believes that
> his ugly, unusable, unfriendly, insufficiently tested software is a few
> steps from the big time.
Look at his reply today. Threatening people with lawsuits and jail because
they are curious why his program has been around so long but yet still so
bad. And he probably thinks he can actually do it, too.
Nevermind the fact that he uploads his program to everybody that wants to
play, so he has no way of knowing who might take it and try to disassemble
it.
Never mind that actually disassembling it into something readable &
understandable is a major undertaking. One that few people would think
about considering the quality of GC's play compared to 500 other freely
available chess programs.
I really don't think he's grasped just how insignificant his program is.
There are already lots of open source programs (many public domain) that are
almost certainly better than his. Even other Java programs.
I can understand putting a lot of work into your program and being proud of
it. I can understand having some pride in developing it yourself, with
little or no outside help. But he takes it a bit to far considering the end
result.
The only questions people have about his program involve why it still plays
so poorly. (Or so I've heard. I've never played it and have no intention
of doing so. But if Glaurung can beat it with a 1800 time difference, then
something is obviously not right.)
People wonder what kind of chess program structure could he have developed
on his own that still plays so poorly after all this time compared to the
simple methods people have developed over the past 40 years that are proven
to play pretty well with minimal effort.
I wonder what's the lowest, simplest program you can find that can beat
GC... One of Muller's MicroMax programs, could probably do it. The
strongest is under 2k of C source (excluding comments & whitespace.) A
simpler one is under 1k of C, I think.
I think the ChessProgrammingWiki chess engine is about done. I think it
still lacks decent time control and repetition and stuff.
I suppose a basic "Tech" style program would be a good test. Material
balance only. But they tend to be fast and have a deep qsearch, so are
tactically very strong. But positionally weak.
I wonder about the JavaScript chess programs? I wonder if those could beat
it. There were a couple that were supposed to be surprisingly decent.
http://p4wn.sourceforge.net/
Not sure which one is the strongest, but probably
http://p4wn.sourceforge.net/main-branch/
This is back from 2005, so there might be newer, better ones on the web
somewhere.
(Admittedly the javascript program is pretty limited... So who knows, GC
might be able to beat it.)
> But his planewreck piece of shit GetClub Chess did make me realize that
> I've been too relaxed about the design stage in my own web development
> project, so thanks for that.
>
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Date: 13 Jul 2008 21:57:57
From: Peter Osterlund
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
|
"Guest" <[email protected] > writes:
> I wonder what's the lowest, simplest program you can find that can beat
> GC... One of Muller's MicroMax programs, could probably do it. The
> strongest is under 2k of C source (excluding comments & whitespace.) A
> simpler one is under 1k of C, I think.
I played a game between Micro-Max 4.0 and getclub beginner level.
Micro-Max consists of 131 lines of C code and can be downloaded from
this web page:
http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/progress.html
The average thinking time of Micro-Max was 1.77 seconds. Here is the
game:
[Date "2008.07.13"]
[White "GetClub beginner level"]
[Black "Micro-Max 4.0"]
[Result "0-1"]
1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. Qxd4 Nc6 4. Qd3 Nf6 5. Bf4 d5 6. exd5 Nxd5 7. Ne2 g5
8. Be3 Ne5 9. Qe4 Bd6 10. Bxg5 Qxg5 11. Qxd5 Qg6 12. Nd4 O-O 13. Nc3 Re8
14. O-O-O Ng4 15. Bd3 Qh6+ 16. Kb1 Nxf2 17. Rde1 Be6 18. Nxe6 Nxh1 19. g3
Nxg3 20. hxg3 fxe6 21. Qxb7 Rab8 22. Qe4 Qg7 23. Rf1 Be5 24. Kc1 Qh6+ 25.
Rf4 Bxf4+ 26. gxf4 c5 27. Bc4 Rbd8 28. Nb5 Kf8 29. a3 Re7 30. b3 e5 31.
Qf5+ Kg7 32. Qg5+ Qxg5 33. fxg5 Kg6 34. c3 a6 35. a4 axb5 36. Bxb5 Kxg5 37.
Bc6 Rf7 38. a5 Ra7 39. Ba4 Rxa5 40. c4 Rxa4 41. bxa4 e4 42. a5 e3 43. Kb2
e2 44. a6 e1=Q
{White resigns} 0-1
--
Peter Osterlund - [email protected]
http://web.telia.com/~u89404340
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Date: 13 Jul 2008 15:31:20
From: Guest
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
|
"Peter Osterlund" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Guest" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> I wonder what's the lowest, simplest program you can find that can beat
>> GC... One of Muller's MicroMax programs, could probably do it. The
>> strongest is under 2k of C source (excluding comments & whitespace.) A
>> simpler one is under 1k of C, I think.
>
> I played a game between Micro-Max 4.0 and getclub beginner level.
> Micro-Max consists of 131 lines of C code and can be downloaded from
> this web page:
>
> http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/progress.html
>
> The average thinking time of Micro-Max was 1.77 seconds. Here is the
> game:
Why am I not really surprised....
Incidentally, his full download page is a little hidden.
http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/dwnldpage.html
It has several versions, including v4.8 which can be done via winboard.
(I've heard that v4.8 is a popular choice for beginning chess programmers
because if your program can't beat v48, then you still have quite a bit of
work to do.)
v4.8 is a little bigger at 1953 characters (excluding whitespace & comments)
He's done a heck of a job with his MicroMax programs.
Thanks for running that.
MicroMax is about as simplistic as you can reasonably expect. And you doing
v4.0 (instead of the slightly larger and stronger 4.8) was a good choice.
It gives Sanny something to aim for.
For those of you who don't remember H. G. Muller, way back in the 80's, he
was the guy who showed up at a computer chess tournament with a chess
computer in a matchbox. Literally a matchbox.
It had a cpu, a memory chip, a battery, an LED, and a couple staples to use
for move input.
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 08:48:34
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
|
> Well DUH, of course Beginner easily wins from you even when down a
> knight. Yourchessskills are even worse than your programming skills.- Hide quoted text -
>
There is one Baby level which is even weak than Beginner. I am unable
to win the Baby Level also.
Now, I will try Baby Level with Extra Knight. If I fail I will get
Extra Rook against Baby Level.
Once can take Extra Queen/ Rook/ Bishop / Knight with any of the
levels. Still they are very strong.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 18:11:26
From: Tobias Heidelmann
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
|
Sanny schrieb:
>> Well DUH, of course Beginner easily wins from you even when down a
>> knight. Yourchessskills are even worse than your programming skills.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>
> There is one Baby level which is even weak than Beginner. I am unable
> to win the Baby Level also.
>
> Now, I will try Baby Level with Extra Knight. If I fail I will get
> Extra Rook against Baby Level.
>
> Once can take Extra Queen/ Rook/ Bishop / Knight with any of the
> levels. Still they are very strong.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
Dude, are you serious?
this makes me very curious.. i mean, you openly admit that you have
virtually no understanding of chess whatsoever and YET you are writing
some chess software? how do you do that?
your software must use some algorithm to evaluate a given position. As
you cannot do that yourself,how do you teach a computer? do you use
other existing algorithms?
Tobias
|
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 06:30:12
From: tOmmetje
Subject: Re: Stupidest game of the month. 11 move Mate.
|
On 12 jul, 13:21, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> I played Beginner. I played Handicap Level and got a Knight Extra.
>
> At GetClub with Handicap Level you can turn any level with a Knight/
> Bishop/ Rook/ Queen Extra.
>
> I thought that beginer without a Knight will be easy for me to win.
>
> But when I played the game Beginner gave me Check Mate even without a
> Knight.
>
> And that too in just 11 Moves.
>
> Rember I was having a Knight Extra. Still Beginner was able to win the
> game.
>
> Game Played between sanjay11 and beginner_x_N at GetClub.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> sanjay11: (Black)
> beginner_x_N: (White)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM22495&game=Chess
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> White -- Black
> (beginner_x_N) -- (sanjay11)
>
> 1. e2-e4{0} e7-e5{10}
> 2. Nb1-c3{16} Nb8-c6{4}
> 3. Bf1-c4{8} d7-d6{4}
> 4. Qd1-h5{12} g7-g6{14}
> 5. Qh5-f3{6} Ng8-f6{8}
> 6. Nc3-b5{10} a7-a6{4}
> 7. Nb5-c7{6} Qd8-c7{8}
> 8. Qf3-f6{8} Rh8-g8{12}
> 9. c2-c3{6} Bf8-e7{8}
> 10. Qf6-f7{6} Ke8-d7{16}
> 11. Bc4-e6{2}
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> sanjay11: (Black)
> beginner_x_N: (White)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM22495&game=Chess
>
> So you can see even with a Knight down Beginner is tough on me.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Well DUH, of course Beginner easily wins from you even when down a
knight. Your chess skills are even worse than your programming skills.
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