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JUST FOUND THIS POST
By mrmip
Location: Finland
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: Stuck Bobby
The first official world champion Wilhelm Steinitz used to brag that
he can solve any 2 or 3 move chess problem in 20 minutes.
This of course was like a red cloth to Sam Loyd. So he composed a
sneaky 4 mover and gave it to Wilhelm to solve. Steinitz thought,
after half an hour think, that he had cracked the puzzle. Sam was
happy as a pig, since there was a well hidden refutation that had
escaped Wilhelm. So Sam named that puzzle "Stuck Steinitz" and was all
too eager to show it to everyone.
Well. Something similar can be said on Benko's "Stuck Bobby". This is
a problem composed by Pal Benko. Pal introduced once this problem to
Bobby Fischer and Bobby took the bet that he will solve it in half an
hour. Well, he lost. Once seeing the solution Bobby claimed that he
will find another solution (cook) overnight. He lost again -- there is
but one solution.
(Source: 'This Crazy World of Chess' by Larry Evans, Cardoza 2007)
[The problem that stuck Bobby can be found on page 38.]
_________________
There are only three kinds of chessplayers - those who can count and
those who cannot....
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Date: 16 Jan 2009 16:20:01
From: Taylor Kingston
Subject: Re: Stuck Bobby
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On Jan 16, 1:20=A0pm, billbrock <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jan 15, 5:03=A0pm, Taylor Kingston <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > =A0 W: Ke1, Qd1, Bc1, Bf1
> > =A0 B: Ke4 =A0White mates in three.
>
> It's a rather beautiful solution (after 20 mins of trying, I looked it
> up).
>
> Hint: if the Black king were prevented from running away, RJF
> certainly would've found it. =A0So on what square could a runaway king
> possibly be mated in 3?
I agree it's beautiful. The black king's freedom of flight is
illusory. With the right moves, he is quickly captured.
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Date: 16 Jan 2009 10:20:28
From: billbrock
Subject: Re: Stuck Bobby
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On Jan 15, 5:03=A0pm, Taylor Kingston <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> =A0 W: Ke1, Qd1, Bc1, Bf1
> =A0 B: Ke4 =A0White mates in three.
>
It's a rather beautiful solution (after 20 mins of trying, I looked it
up).
Hint: if the Black king were prevented from running away, RJF
certainly would've found it. So on what square could a runaway king
possibly be mated in 3?
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Date: 16 Jan 2009 08:43:37
From: Taylor Kingston
Subject: Re: Stuck Bobby
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On Jan 15, 11:26=A0pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jan 15, 6:03=A0pm, Taylor Kingston <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > There are only three kinds of chessplayers - those who can count =
and
> > > > > those who cannot....
>
> =A0 No, there are four kinds: =A0those who can count
> correctly, those who miscount, and those who
> realize that counting lies beyond their abilities.
>
> > > > =A0 Benko shows that problem on page 644 of his autobiography. The
> > > > position is:
>
> > > > =A0 W: Ke1, Ra1, Rh1, Nb1, Ng1, e2, h2
> > > > =A0 B: Ke4, Qc2, Rh3, Bf3, Na4, a3, a2, e3
>
> =A0 =A0I solved this in less than ten minutes-- with
> no computer help. =A0 Why grandmasters have
> so much trouble with these easy problems
> is a mystery to me.
You solved it as White to play and mate in two or three? What
solution did you find?
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Date: 15 Jan 2009 20:26:04
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Stuck Bobby
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On Jan 15, 6:03=A0pm, Taylor Kingston <[email protected] > wrote:
> > > > There are only three kinds of chessplayers - those who can count an=
d
> > > > those who cannot....
No, there are four kinds: those who can count
correctly, those who miscount, and those who
realize that counting lies beyond their abilities.
> > > =A0 Benko shows that problem on page 644 of his autobiography. The
> > > position is:
>
> > > =A0 W: Ke1, Ra1, Rh1, Nb1, Ng1, e2, h2
> > > =A0 B: Ke4, Qc2, Rh3, Bf3, Na4, a3, a2, e3
I solved this in less than ten minutes-- with
no computer help. Why grandmasters have
so much trouble with these easy problems
is a mystery to me.
> > > =A0 The terms are: Helpmate in three, with two solutions.
Uh oh-- not only did I assume it was a
"normal" chess problem, but this means
that Mr. Kingston got himself all confused
again, for Mr. Parr specifically stated that
there was but ONE solution, and that PB
*won* his second bet *on that account*.
This was all crystal-clear... except of
course to Mr. Kingston. What wasn't
clear was why BF could not solve such
a problem in thirty minutes; but consider
this: BF was no problemist; his skill lay
in OTB competition, which heavily
involves openings theory and practical
decision-making, while many of these
"chess problems" are artificial in nature.
-- help bot
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Date: 15 Jan 2009 10:52:17
From: Taylor Kingston
Subject: Re: Stuck Bobby
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On Jan 15, 1:35=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected] > wrote:
> JUST FOUND THIS POST
>
> By mrmip
>
> Location: Finland
>
> Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: Stuck Bobby
>
> The first official world champion Wilhelm Steinitz used to brag that
> he can solve any 2 or 3 move chess problem in 20 minutes.
>
> This of course was like a red cloth to Sam Loyd. So he composed a
> sneaky 4 mover and gave it to Wilhelm to solve. Steinitz thought,
> after half an hour think, that he had cracked the puzzle. Sam was
> happy as a pig, since there was a well hidden refutation that had
> escaped Wilhelm. So Sam named that puzzle "Stuck Steinitz" and was all
> too eager to show it to everyone.
>
> Well. Something similar can be said on Benko's "Stuck Bobby". This is
> a problem composed by Pal Benko. Pal introduced once this problem to
> Bobby Fischer and Bobby took the bet that he will solve it in half an
> hour. Well, he lost. Once seeing the solution Bobby claimed that he
> will find another solution (cook) overnight. He lost again -- there is
> but one solution.
>
> (Source: 'This Crazy World of Chess' by Larry Evans, Cardoza 2007)
>
> [The problem that stuck Bobby can be found on page 38.]
> _________________
>
> There are only three kinds of chessplayers - those who can count and
> those who cannot....
Benko shows that problem on page 644 of his autobiography. The
position is:
W: Ke1, Ra1, Rh1, Nb1, Ng1, e2, h2
B: Ke4, Qc2, Rh3, Bf3, Na4, a3, a2, e3
The terms are: Helpmate in three, with two solutions. Keep in mind
that in a helpmate, Black moves first, and the goal is to find the
quickest possible mate of the black king, with both sides cooperating,
i.e. Black plays to allow mate as quickly as possible, not avoid it.
The "stuck Steinitz" problem is discussed here:
http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/steinitzcapa.html
along with several other problems that proved very difficult for
prominent players.
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Date: 15 Jan 2009 15:03:11
From: Taylor Kingston
Subject: Re: Stuck Bobby
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On Jan 15, 5:29=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected] > wrote:
> THAT'S NOT THE SAME PROBLEM
>
> Mr. 2300+ Elo has made an interesting contribution, but the helpmate
> by Benko is not the same problem cited in THIS CRAZY WORLD OF CHESS
> (page 38). The problem that Stuck Bobby is a standard mate-in-3.
Interesting. Of the problem I gave, Benko himself says: "I created
this problem with the express purpose of fooling Bobby Fischer, just
like Loyd did to Steinitz. Bobby fell right into my trap solutions."
That is why I assumed it was the problem in question, since the
Finnish post mentioned the Loyd-Steinitz challenge.
But, checking the index of his autobiography further, I see there is
one other Benko problem that stumped Fischer. It is:
W: Ke1, Qd1, Bc1, Bf1
B: Ke4 White mates in three.
Is this the one you refer to, Larry? Benko says "[This] was the last
problem I composed as a teenager ... At the Lugano Olympiad, which
Bobby Fischer attended as a spectator, I made a bet with him that he
couldn't solve it in thirty minutes. As time ran out, he became
irritated and demanded to see the answer. When I showed it to him, he
insisted that other solutions had to exist. Naturally, this led to
another bet! The teenage Pal Benko never would have guessed how much
mileage he was going to get of that little problem!"
> Taylor Kingston wrote:
> > On Jan 15, 1:35?pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > JUST FOUND THIS POST
>
> > > By mrmip
>
> > > Location: Finland
>
> > > Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: Stuck Bobby
>
> > > The first official world champion Wilhelm Steinitz used to brag that
> > > he can solve any 2 or 3 move chess problem in 20 minutes.
>
> > > This of course was like a red cloth to Sam Loyd. So he composed a
> > > sneaky 4 mover and gave it to Wilhelm to solve. Steinitz thought,
> > > after half an hour think, that he had cracked the puzzle. Sam was
> > > happy as a pig, since there was a well hidden refutation that had
> > > escaped Wilhelm. So Sam named that puzzle "Stuck Steinitz" and was al=
l
> > > too eager to show it to everyone.
>
> > > Well. Something similar can be said on Benko's "Stuck Bobby". This is
> > > a problem composed by Pal Benko. Pal introduced once this problem to
> > > Bobby Fischer and Bobby took the bet that he will solve it in half an
> > > hour. Well, he lost. Once seeing the solution Bobby claimed that he
> > > will find another solution (cook) overnight. He lost again -- there i=
s
> > > but one solution.
>
> > > (Source: 'This Crazy World of Chess' by Larry Evans, Cardoza 2007)
>
> > > [The problem that stuck Bobby can be found on page 38.]
> > > _________________
>
> > > There are only three kinds of chessplayers - those who can count and
> > > those who cannot....
>
> > =A0 Benko shows that problem on page 644 of his autobiography. The
> > position is:
>
> > =A0 W: Ke1, Ra1, Rh1, Nb1, Ng1, e2, h2
> > =A0 B: Ke4, Qc2, Rh3, Bf3, Na4, a3, a2, e3
>
> > =A0 The terms are: Helpmate in three, with two solutions. Keep in mind
> > that in a helpmate, Black moves first, and the goal is to find the
> > quickest possible mate of the black king, with both sides cooperating,
> > i.e. Black plays to allow mate as quickly as possible, not avoid it.
>
> > =A0 The "stuck Steinitz" problem is discussed here:
>
> > =A0http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/steinitzcapa.html
>
> > along with several other problems that proved very difficult for
> > prominent players.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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THAT'S NOT THE SAME PROBLEM
Mr. 2300+ Elo has made an interesting contribution, but the helpmate
by Benko is not the same problem cited in THIS CRAZY WORLD OF CHESS
(page 38). The problem that Stuck Bobby is a standard mate-in-3.
Taylor Kingston wrote:
> On Jan 15, 1:35?pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > JUST FOUND THIS POST
> >
> > By mrmip
> >
> > Location: Finland
> >
> > Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: Stuck Bobby
> >
> > The first official world champion Wilhelm Steinitz used to brag that
> > he can solve any 2 or 3 move chess problem in 20 minutes.
> >
> > This of course was like a red cloth to Sam Loyd. So he composed a
> > sneaky 4 mover and gave it to Wilhelm to solve. Steinitz thought,
> > after half an hour think, that he had cracked the puzzle. Sam was
> > happy as a pig, since there was a well hidden refutation that had
> > escaped Wilhelm. So Sam named that puzzle "Stuck Steinitz" and was all
> > too eager to show it to everyone.
> >
> > Well. Something similar can be said on Benko's "Stuck Bobby". This is
> > a problem composed by Pal Benko. Pal introduced once this problem to
> > Bobby Fischer and Bobby took the bet that he will solve it in half an
> > hour. Well, he lost. Once seeing the solution Bobby claimed that he
> > will find another solution (cook) overnight. He lost again -- there is
> > but one solution.
> >
> > (Source: 'This Crazy World of Chess' by Larry Evans, Cardoza 2007)
> >
> > [The problem that stuck Bobby can be found on page 38.]
> > _________________
> >
> > There are only three kinds of chessplayers - those who can count and
> > those who cannot....
>
> Benko shows that problem on page 644 of his autobiography. The
> position is:
>
> W: Ke1, Ra1, Rh1, Nb1, Ng1, e2, h2
> B: Ke4, Qc2, Rh3, Bf3, Na4, a3, a2, e3
>
> The terms are: Helpmate in three, with two solutions. Keep in mind
> that in a helpmate, Black moves first, and the goal is to find the
> quickest possible mate of the black king, with both sides cooperating,
> i.e. Black plays to allow mate as quickly as possible, not avoid it.
>
> The "stuck Steinitz" problem is discussed here:
>
> http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/steinitzcapa.html
>
> along with several other problems that proved very difficult for
> prominent players.
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