Rules question about "completing a turn"

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Date: 12 Nov 2007 04:06:42
From: [email protected]
Subject: Rules question about "completing a turn"

In a tournament game recently, in a tense endgame, my opponent made a
move (picked up a piece, moved it to another square, and released the
piece). He then didn't press the clock button. I didn't even notice
that latter omission; I thought for a while and then made a move,
whereupon he said rather sharply, "You can't move yet. My turn isn't
over. I didn't press the clock yet." Um.... OK .... I replaced the
piece in its original square and waited. After a while he pressed the
clock and said, "NOW it's your turn."

I'm baffled. What was the point? To try a trick to see what I was
going to play? Would he have been allowed to retract his move, even
though he had released the piece, as long as he played a different
move with the same piece? It all seems pointless; and, since at times
players *do* forget to press the clock button, was I supposed to wait
forever (or until the clock ran out)?

Thanks for any insights.....

Date: 12 Nov 2007 13:49:40
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: Rules question about "completing a turn"

[email protected] wrote:

>In a tournament game recently, in a tense endgame, my opponent made a
>move (picked up a piece, moved it to another square, and released the
>piece). He then didn't press the clock button. I didn't even notice
>that latter omission; I thought for a while and then made a move,
>whereupon he said rather sharply, "You can't move yet. My turn isn't
>over. I didn't press the clock yet." Um.... OK .... I replaced the
>piece in its original square and waited. After a while he pressed the
>clock and said, "NOW it's your turn."
>
>I'm baffled. What was the point? To try a trick to see what I was
>going to play? Would he have been allowed to retract his move, even
>though he had released the piece, as long as he played a different
>move with the same piece? It all seems pointless; and, since at times
>players *do* forget to press the clock button, was I supposed to wait
>forever (or until the clock ran out)?

The first time I made the mistake of not pressing my clock button,
my opponent sat there staring at the board in what appeared to be
deep concentration for almost 20 minutes. Then I noticed, pushed
the button, and he instantly replied and pressed his button. That
was the one and only time I made that error...

Could it be that you were using an electronic clock that counts
moves and he didn't want it to be off by one move?

--
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/ >

Date: 12 Nov 2007 15:02:29
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Rules question about "completing a turn"

Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/ > wrote:
> Could it be that you were using an electronic clock that counts
> moves and he didn't want it to be off by one move?

That would explain why he didn't want the OP to move before the clock
had been pressed. It doesn't explain the pause between the opponent's
becoming aware that he hadn't pressed it and actually pressing it.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Lead Ghost (TM): it's like a haunting
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ spirit that weighs a ton!

Date: 12 Nov 2007 11:25:41
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Rules question about "completing a turn"

[email protected] <[email protected] > wrote:
> In a tournament game recently, in a tense endgame, my opponent made
> a move (picked up a piece, moved it to another square, and released
> the piece). He then didn't press the clock button. I didn't even
> notice that latter omission; I thought for a while and then made a
> move, whereupon he said rather sharply, "You can't move yet. My
> turn isn't over. I didn't press the clock yet." Um.... OK .... I
> replaced the piece in its original square and waited. After a while
> he pressed the clock and said, "NOW it's your turn."

Your opponent is an asshole.

> I'm baffled. What was the point? To try a trick to see what I was
> going to play? Would he have been allowed to retract his move, even
> though he had released the piece, as long as he played a different
> move with the same piece?

No: the move, assuming it was illegal, is final once the player has
deliberately released the piece on the destination square. There is
no legitimate reason for deliberately delaying pressing the clock.

> It all seems pointless; and, since at times players *do* forget to
> press the clock button, was I supposed to wait forever (or until the
> clock ran out)?

Technically, yes. In such circumstances, I would wait a little while
and then gesture at the clock to remind my opponent to press it and
possibly tell them if they didn't take the hint. Doing so is
technically illegal and, of course, if a player who was in the habit
of forgetting to press his clock seemed to be annoyed by my reminders,
I wouldn't do it, since his forgetfulness is to my advantage anyway.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Crystal Whisky (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ single-malt whisky but it's completely
transparent!

Date: 12 Nov 2007 03:20:58
From:
Subject: Re: Rules question about "completing a turn"

[email protected] wrote:
> In a tournament game recently, in a tense endgame, my opponent made a
> move (picked up a piece, moved it to another square, and released the
> piece). He then didn't press the clock button. I didn't even notice
> that latter omission; I thought for a while and then made a move,
> whereupon he said rather sharply, "You can't move yet. My turn isn't
> over. I didn't press the clock yet." Um.... OK .... I replaced the
> piece in its original square and waited. After a while he pressed the
> clock and said, "NOW it's your turn."
>
> I'm baffled. What was the point? To try a trick to see what I was
> going to play? Would he have been allowed to retract his move, even
> though he had released the piece, as long as he played a different
> move with the same piece? It all seems pointless; and, since at times
> players *do* forget to press the clock button, was I supposed to wait
> forever (or until the clock ran out)?
>
> Thanks for any insights.....

Your opponent was technically correct, but in practice his actions
were merely stupid. The move is "determined" when the player's hand
releases a piece on a square (so he can't change it), but not
"completed" (making it your move) until he stops his clock. (The
distinction is important on the last move of the time control, since
if he makes his last move on the board but does not stop the clock
before his flag falls, you can claim a win on time.) By acting as he
did, your opponent just lost a little more time. Your options in a
case like this are a) politely remind him that his clock is still
running, b) do nothing until he stops the clock or his flag falls, or
c) make a move and possibly provoke a dispute with a loon, as you did.

Date: 11 Nov 2007 23:49:42
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Rules question about "completing a turn"

On Nov 12, 9:06 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected] > wrote:
> In a tournament game recently, in a tense endgame, my opponent made a
> move (picked up a piece, moved it to another square, and released the
> piece). He then didn't press the clock button. I didn't even notice
> that latter omission; I thought for a while and then made a move,
> whereupon he said rather sharply, "You can't move yet. My turn isn't
> over. I didn't press the clock yet." Um.... OK .... I replaced the
> piece in its original square and waited. After a while he pressed the
> clock and said, "NOW it's your turn."
>
> I'm baffled. What was the point? To try a trick to see what I was
> going to play? Would he have been allowed to retract his move, even
> though he had released the piece, as long as he played a different
> move with the same piece? It all seems pointless; and, since at times
> players *do* forget to press the clock button, was I supposed to wait
> forever (or until the clock ran out)?
>
> Thanks for any insights.....

That depends on what rules you follow and understanding between
players.

Some people say If you touch a Piece you have to make that move only.
Say your King has no legal move and you touch the King or lift it up
and Bingo you are out of the game.

Play Chess: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Its long time you have not played at Getclub, Play a few games and let
me know how you score.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 12 Nov 2007 13:03:44
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Rules question about "completing a turn"

Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> That depends on what rules you follow and understanding between
> players.

This is tournament chess. The rules are well-known and there is no
need for `understanding between the players'.

> Some people say If you touch a Piece you have to make that move only.
> Say your King has no legal move and you touch the King or lift it up
> and Bingo you are out of the game.

Some people may say that but, hey, some people say that you can't
castle if you've been in check at any point during the game. Some
people even say that Elvis is still alive.

Under the FIDE Laws (and, I imagine, USCF, too), you are only obliged
to move the first piece you deliberately touched that has at least one
legal move. Brushing a piece with your elbow doesn't count; touching
a piece that cannot move doesn't count.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Crystal Flower (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a flower but it's completely
transparent!