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Main
Date: 26 Sep 2008 20:59:22
From: -
Subject: Rare Historic Book on Chessology Available for Immediate Download
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Identifies _Shogi_ as a game potentially deeper than Go ...
The Science and Art of War or Struggle (Philosophically Treated)
Chong Kie and I-GO by Choh Yoh
----------------------------------
Author: Cho-Yo
Format: Hardcover (Illustrated), 242 pages
Publication Date: May 2002
Publisher: Kegan Paul Intl
Dimensions: 8.75"H x 5.5"W x 1"D; 1.1 lbs.
ISBN-10: 0710307187
ISBN-13: 9780710307187
List Price: $127.50
http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Japanese_Chess_Shogi-ISBN_9780710307187.html?isrc=b-search
short portrait
http://www.najmici.net/szukalski/inner_06.htm
These two are the same, not a numbered copy:
http://ia350612.us.archive.org/1/items/japanesechesssho00choyuoft/japanesechesssho00choyuoft.pdf
http://www.archive.org/download/japanesechesssho00choyuoft/japanesechesssho00choyuoft.pdf
Another book copy - signed edition with chinese dedication:
http://www.archive.org/download/japanesechesssho00suzurich/japanesechesssho00suzurich.pdf
Note the Preface, and a Go Discussion at Page 210.
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Date: 01 Oct 2008 17:21:30
From: -
Subject: Re: Rare Historic Book on Chessology Available for Immediate Download
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<business7@NO_SPAM_bigfoot.com > wrote:
> Please provide the URL for this pdf. Thanks
Please consult with a history of this newsgroup thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.go/browse_thread/thread/eb488368ddaa8e5f?hl=en#
U R Welcome
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Russia & Japan In Joint Naval Exercises
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080930/117328946.html
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Date: 27 Sep 2008 13:31:13
From: Milt
Subject: Re: Rare Historic Book on Chessology Available for Immediate Download
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On Sep 26, 4:59=A0pm, [email protected] (-) wrote:
> =A0 =A0 Identifies _Shogi_ as a game potentially deeper than Go ...
>
> The Science and Art of War or Struggle (Philosophically Treated)
> =A0 =A0 =A0Chong Kie and I-GO =A0 =A0 by =A0Choh Yoh
>
> ----------------------------------
> Author: Cho-Yo
> Format: Hardcover (Illustrated), 242 pages
> Publication Date: May 2002
> Publisher: Kegan Paul Intl
> Dimensions: 8.75"H x 5.5"W x 1"D; 1.1 lbs.
> ISBN-10: 0710307187
> ISBN-13: 9780710307187
> List Price: $127.50
>
> http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Japanese_Chess_Shogi-ISBN_9780710307187.ht...
>
> short portraithttp://www.najmici.net/szukalski/inner_06.htm
>
> These two are the same, not a numbered copy:http://ia350612.us.archive.or=
g/1/items/japanesechesssho00choyuoft/jap...http://www.archive.org/download/=
japanesechesssho00choyuoft/japanesech...
>
> Another book copy - signed edition with chinese dedication:http://www.arc=
hive.org/download/japanesechesssho00suzurich/japanesech...
>
> Note the Preface, and a Go Discussion at Page 210.
I noted this announcement with somewhat more than casual interest, as
one who's had a copy of this 1901 classic in his personal library for
at least the last 50 years! But why it appears in rec.games.go is a
mystery to me, because it's nothing more than a treatise on Shogi
(Japanese Chess), and the referenced Go discussion on page 210 is
merely the author's rationalization of why he believes Go to be
inferior to Shogi. In any event, I found the author's reasoning and
linguistic style in support of that premise at least a bit strange and
his arguments unpersuasive, but perhaps that's just my own particular
bias in favor of Go at work.
Milt
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Date: 29 Sep 2008 00:46:35
From: BraveSirRobin
Subject: Re: Rare Historic Book on Chessology Available for Immediate Download
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I own a copy of this, having assembled a pretty complete collection of
the available books in English on shogi (about seven of them, I
think). It is now part of my go collection too what with go being in
the subtitle and there being at least a section on it. A couple of
comments...
1. $127.50 is asked in the ad attached. I got a copy on eBay for $20
or so and then found a copy for a friend at Powell's in Portland for
$20 as well. Notwithstanding the few copies made in 1905, it is not
that hard to find, presumably because nobody wants it except as a
rather bizarre and collectible curiosity. Anyway, hesitate to pay
$127.50. (The free pdf is at a pretty good price point, too.)
2. There is nothing in it that would help you play go or learn about
history or culture of go. The go section, it is fair to say, is there
to suggest we'd be better off playing shogi.
3. Slightly more puzzling, there is nothing in it that would help a
person play shogi either. I did a longer post at godiscussions.com
after having attempted to read this book. Suffice to say here that
you should only think of reading this book if you want a detailed
account, shell by shell, hillock by hillock, of the Russo-Japanese War
of 1905, from the point of view of a nationalist who thinks the
Japanese victory and the game of shogi are reflections of the same
underlying chessological reality. There are excursions into many
other topics, so many that the author seems like a lunatic writing,
real small, about how everything is connected. Not a book to read for
shogi, but an amusing book to own and skim for its own sake. Worth
owning if only for the beautiful ink-drawn Tree of Chess-ologics.
Aokun
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Date: 29 Sep 2008 09:44:32
From: tweet
Subject: Re: Rare Historic Book on Chessology Available for Immediate Download
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BraveSirRobin wrote:
> I own a copy of this, having assembled a pretty complete collection of
> the available books in English on shogi (about seven of them, I
> think). It is now part of my go collection too what with go being in
> the subtitle and there being at least a section on it. A couple of
> comments...
>
> 1. $127.50 is asked in the ad attached. I got a copy on eBay for $20
> or so and then found a copy for a friend at Powell's in Portland for
> $20 as well. Notwithstanding the few copies made in 1905, it is not
> that hard to find,
There were only 999 copies printed.
> presumably because nobody wants it except as a
> rather bizarre and collectible curiosity. Anyway, hesitate to pay
> $127.50. (The free pdf is at a pretty good price point, too.)
>
> 2. There is nothing in it that would help you play go or learn about
> history or culture of go. The go section, it is fair to say, is there
> to suggest we'd be better off playing shogi.
>
> 3. Slightly more puzzling, there is nothing in it that would help a
> person play shogi either. I did a longer post at godiscussions.com
> after having attempted to read this book. Suffice to say here that
> you should only think of reading this book if you want a detailed
> account, shell by shell, hillock by hillock, of the Russo-Japanese War
> of 1905, from the point of view of a nationalist who thinks the
The author is Chinese.
> Japanese victory and the game of shogi are reflections of the same
> underlying chessological reality. There are excursions into many
> other topics, so many that the author seems like a lunatic writing,
> real small, about how everything is connected. Not a book to read for
> shogi, but an amusing book to own and skim for its own sake. Worth
> owning if only for the beautiful ink-drawn Tree of Chess-ologics.
>
> Aokun
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Date: 28 Sep 2008 18:32:38
From: Milt
Subject: Re: Rare Historic Book on Chessology Available for Immediate Download
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On Sep 27, 9:47 pm, tweet <[email protected] > wrote:
> Milt wrote:
> > On Sep 26, 4:59 pm, @hotmail.com wrote:
> >> Identifies _Shogi_ as a game potentially deeper than Go ...
>
> >> The Science and Art of War or Struggle (Philosophically Treated)
> >> Chong Kie and I-GO by Choh Yoh
>
> >> ----------------------------------
> >> Author: Cho-Yo
> >> Format: Hardcover (Illustrated), 242 pages
> >> Publication Date: May 2002
> >> Publisher: Kegan Paul Intl
> >> Dimensions: 8.75"H x 5.5"W x 1"D; 1.1 lbs.
> >> ISBN-10: 0710307187
> >> ISBN-13: 9780710307187
> >> List Price: $127.50
>
> >>http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Japanese_Chess_Shogi-ISBN_9780710307187.ht...
>
> >> short portraithttp://www.najmici.net/szukalski/inner_06.htm
>
> >> These two are the same, not a numbered copy:http://ia350612.us.archive.org/1/items/japanesechesssho00choyuoft/jap......
>
> >> Another book copy - signed edition with chinese dedication:http://www.archive.org/download/japanesechesssho00suzurich/japanesech...
>
> >> Note the Preface, and a Go Discussion at Page 210.
>
> > I noted this announcement with somewhat more than casual interest, as
> > one who's had a copy of this 1901 classic in his personal library for
>
> 1905. I think the announcement is appropriate, because the discussion
> on Go provides an interesting point of view, and the announcement did
> direct to readers to page 210.
>
> > at least the last 50 years! But why it appears in rec.games.go is a
> > mystery to me, because it's nothing more than a treatise on Shogi
> > (Japanese Chess), and the referenced Go discussion on page 210 is
> > merely the author's rationalization of why he believes Go to be
> > inferior to Shogi. In any event, I found the author's reasoning and
> > linguistic style in support of that premise at least a bit strange and
> > his arguments unpersuasive, but perhaps that's just my own particular
> > bias in favor of Go at work.
>
> > Milt
Sorry! 1905 is correct! My old eyes deceived me.
Milt
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Date: 28 Sep 2008 09:44:56
From: Michael Alford
Subject: Re: Rare Historic Book on Chessology Available for Immediate Download
|
Milt wrote:
> On Sep 26, 4:59 pm, [email protected] (-) wrote:
>> Identifies _Shogi_ as a game potentially deeper than Go ...
>>
>> The Science and Art of War or Struggle (Philosophically Treated)
>> Chong Kie and I-GO by Choh Yoh
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> Author: Cho-Yo
>> Format: Hardcover (Illustrated), 242 pages
>> Publication Date: May 2002
>> Publisher: Kegan Paul Intl
>> Dimensions: 8.75"H x 5.5"W x 1"D; 1.1 lbs.
>> ISBN-10: 0710307187
>> ISBN-13: 9780710307187
>> List Price: $127.50
>>
>> http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Japanese_Chess_Shogi-ISBN_9780710307187.ht...
>>
>> short portraithttp://www.najmici.net/szukalski/inner_06.htm
>>
>> These two are the same, not a numbered copy:http://ia350612.us.archive.org/1/items/japanesechesssho00choyuoft/jap...http://www.archive.org/download/japanesechesssho00choyuoft/japanesech...
>>
>> Another book copy - signed edition with chinese dedication:http://www.archive.org/download/japanesechesssho00suzurich/japanesech...
>>
>> Note the Preface, and a Go Discussion at Page 210.
>
> I noted this announcement with somewhat more than casual interest, as
> one who's had a copy of this 1901 classic in his personal library for
> at least the last 50 years! But why it appears in rec.games.go is a
> mystery to me, because it's nothing more than a treatise on Shogi
> (Japanese Chess), and the referenced Go discussion on page 210 is
> merely the author's rationalization of why he believes Go to be
> inferior to Shogi. In any event, I found the author's reasoning and
> linguistic style in support of that premise at least a bit strange and
> his arguments unpersuasive, but perhaps that's just my own particular
> bias in favor of Go at work.
>
> Milt
I downloaded the .pdf, read the Preface and the part about Go starting
on page 210. I was a bit surprised by the author's assessment of Go
compared to shogi, so I surfed around a bit trying to find more info on
Cho Yo. I didn't find much, but apparently Cho Yo was a master player of
shogi :) So everyone's biases are showing a little here, Cho Yo liked
and played shogi, Milt plays both Go and chess and likes both, I really
like Go, I play it every day and haven't played chess in a very long
time. To each his own :)
Michael
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Date: 27 Sep 2008 18:47:25
From: tweet
Subject: Re: Rare Historic Book on Chessology Available for Immediate Download
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Milt wrote:
> On Sep 26, 4:59 pm, @hotmail.com wrote:
>> Identifies _Shogi_ as a game potentially deeper than Go ...
>>
>> The Science and Art of War or Struggle (Philosophically Treated)
>> Chong Kie and I-GO by Choh Yoh
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> Author: Cho-Yo
>> Format: Hardcover (Illustrated), 242 pages
>> Publication Date: May 2002
>> Publisher: Kegan Paul Intl
>> Dimensions: 8.75"H x 5.5"W x 1"D; 1.1 lbs.
>> ISBN-10: 0710307187
>> ISBN-13: 9780710307187
>> List Price: $127.50
>>
>> http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Japanese_Chess_Shogi-ISBN_9780710307187.ht...
>>
>> short portraithttp://www.najmici.net/szukalski/inner_06.htm
>>
>> These two are the same, not a numbered copy:http://ia350612.us.archive.org/1/items/japanesechesssho00choyuoft/jap...http://www.archive.org/download/japanesechesssho00choyuoft/japanesech...
>>
>> Another book copy - signed edition with chinese dedication:http://www.archive.org/download/japanesechesssho00suzurich/japanesech...
>>
>> Note the Preface, and a Go Discussion at Page 210.
>
> I noted this announcement with somewhat more than casual interest, as
> one who's had a copy of this 1901 classic in his personal library for
1905. I think the announcement is appropriate, because the discussion
on Go provides an interesting point of view, and the announcement did
direct to readers to page 210.
> at least the last 50 years! But why it appears in rec.games.go is a
> mystery to me, because it's nothing more than a treatise on Shogi
> (Japanese Chess), and the referenced Go discussion on page 210 is
> merely the author's rationalization of why he believes Go to be
> inferior to Shogi. In any event, I found the author's reasoning and
> linguistic style in support of that premise at least a bit strange and
> his arguments unpersuasive, but perhaps that's just my own particular
> bias in favor of Go at work.
>
> Milt
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Date: 27 Sep 2008 22:40:22
From: -
Subject: Re: Rare Historic Book on Chessology Available for Immediate Download
|
Milt <[email protected] > wrote:
> I noted this announcement with somewhat more than casual interest, as
> one who's had a copy of this 1901 classic in his personal library for
> at least the last 50 years! But why it appears in rec.games.go is a
> mystery to me, because it's nothing more than a treatise on Shogi
> (Japanese Chess), and the referenced Go discussion on page 210 is
> merely the author's rationalization of why he believes Go to be
> inferior to Shogi.
Why would Milt keep a book in your library if it's a mystery to him?
Why would Milt deny to others an opportunity to review some rare
book that he himself keeps in his own personal library?
As for topicality to newsgroup the other three alternatives I find for
"shogi" suffer numerous impediments, either dead with no replies,
not in English, or overwhelmed by commercialized announcements.
Does Milt need to be reminded that IGS was originally created also
with "shogi" in mind; that "Chessmen" at the Japanese Go Institute
are well-versed in "shogi" skills, as well as other forms of Chess?
> In any event, I found the author's reasoning and linguistic style in
> support of that premise at least a bit strange and his arguments
> unpersuasive, but perhaps that's just my own particular bias in
> favor of Go at work.
Interesting. What, in particular, from the author's "Preface" was
unpersuasive to Milt? What is incorrect about characterizing Go
as the highest form of _draughts_ but not in the spirit of "sharpness"
as we acknowlege for Chess? Relative susceptibility to a machine
says nothing about what occurs when human perception is in play.
- regards
- jb
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