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Main
Date: 27 Mar 2008 00:41:37
From: Sanny
Subject: Please analyze this game.
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In this game why was beginner Level Lost? Why it sacrificed its
knight? was there any other move.
What were the wrong moves that black should have avoided?
Game Played between spook and beginner at GetClub.com
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spook: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM18634&game=Chess
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White -- Black
(spook) -- (beginner)
1. d2-d4{8} Ng8-f6{0}
2. c2-c4{8} g7-g6{0}
3. Nb1-c3{6} Bf8-g7{0}
4. e2-e4{4} d7-d6{0}
5. f2-f3{10} Nb8-c6{8}
6. Bc1-e3{4} Bc8-d7{6}
7. Qd1-d2{12} Ke8-g8{6}
8. Ke1-c1{12} e7-e6{6}
9. g2-g4{10} b7-b6{6}
10. h2-h4{10} Ra8-c8{8}
11. h4-h5{6} e6-e5{6}
12. d4-d5{6} Nc6-b4{12}
13. Be3-h6{14} a7-a5{8}
14. Ng1-e2{20} Kg8-h8{12}
15. Bh6-g7{12} Kh8-g7{6}
16. h5-g6{12} f7-g6{10}
17. Qd2-h6{6} Kg7-f7{16}
18. g4-g5{26} Nf6-d5{0}
19. Qh6-h7{12} Kf7-e8{8}
20. Qh7-g6{6} Rf8-f7{10}
21. c4-d5{18} Ke8-e7{12}
22. Ne2-g3{36} Qd8-g8{6}
23. Qg6-h5{26} Rf7-g7{0}
24. Ng3-f5{44} Bd7-f5{8}
25. e4-f5{4} Rg7-g5{8}
26. Qh5-h7{8} Ke7-d8{10}
27. Qh7-g8{32} Rg5-g8{6}
28. a2-a3{4} Rc8-a8{8}
29. a3-b4{6} a5-b4{6}
30. Nc3-e4{6} Ra8-a1{8}
31. Kc1-d2{6} Ra1-a2{6}
32. Rd1-b1{8} Ra2-a5{14}
33. Bf1-c4{6} Kd8-c8{6}
34. f5-f6{6} Kc8-b8{8}
35. f6-f7{16} Rg8-c8{12}
36. Rh1-g1{12} Ra5-a4{6}
37. Rg1-g8{6} b4-b3{6}
38. Rg8-c8{14} Kb8-c8{8}
39. Qf7-f8{Q}{6} Kc8-b7{10}
40. Bc4-b3{12} Ra4-d4{12}
41. Kd2-e3{8} Rd4-b4{6}
42. Ne4-d2{28} Rb4-f4{16}
43. Qf8-e8{8} b6-b5{10}
44. Rb1-a1{12} Rf4-a4{6}
45. Qe8-b5{8} Kb7-c8{6}
46. Bb3-a4{16} e5-e4{6}
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spook: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM18634&game=Chess
You can see in some moves black played in 0 seconds it is because it
thought its move in Opponents time.
The Moves where Black played instantaniously other than Opening are.
18. g4-g5{26} Nf6-d5{0}
23. Qg6-h5{26} Rf7-g7{0}
So you save time in game as Beginner thinks in your time.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 30 Mar 2008 23:08:54
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Please analyze this game.
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On 29, 4:02 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On 29, 1:40 pm, Offramp <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > 1. d4 {A sound opening move. First played by El Greco.}
>
> Oh no, it goes back much further than that, back to Flintstone-
> Rubble, Bedrock 21,047 B.C.
No, I believe you are thinking of cave man chess,
which is more like:
1. e3 e6
2. e4! e5!
3. Nf3 Nc6
4. Bb5 a6
5. Ba4 b6!
6. Ke2 b5
7. Bb3 Nf6
8. Re1 Bc5
9. Kf1 d6
10. Kg1 Ke7
11. c3 Re8
12. d3 Kf8
13. d4! d6
-- help bot
-- help bot
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Date: 29 Mar 2008 13:02:00
From:
Subject: Re: Please analyze this game.
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On 29, 1:40=A0pm, Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> 1. d4 {A sound opening move. First played by El Greco.}
Oh no, it goes back much further than that, back to Flintstone-
Rubble, Bedrock 21,047 B.C.
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Date: 29 Mar 2008 10:40:44
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Please analyze this game.
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On 27, 7:41 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> In this game why was beginner Level Lost? Why it sacrificed its
> knight? was there any other move.
[Event "Getclub USA"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Spook"]
[Black "Beginner"]
[Result "1-0"]
[PlyCount "86"]
[EventDate "2008.03.29"]
1. d4 {A sound opening move. First played by El Greco.} Nf6 2. c4 g6
3. Nc3 Bg7
4. e4 d6 5. f3 {The sandwich.} Nc6 6. Be3 $2 {A common error.} (6. Bg5
{0} h6
7. Be3 O-O 8. Qd2 Kh7 $14) 6... Bd7 7. Qd2 O-O 8. O-O-O e6 9. g4 b6 $2
10. h4
Rc8 $2 11. h5 e5 {At last black does something.} 12. d5 Nb4 13. Bh6 a5
14. Nge2
$2 Kh8 $4 (14... Nd3+ $1 {would have helped black out tremendously.})
15. Bxg7+
Kxg7 16. hxg6 fxg6 17. Qh6+ Kf7 18. g5 Nfxd5 (18... Nh5 19. Rxh5 gxh5
20. Qxh7+
Ke8 $8 21. g6 $18) 19. Qxh7+ Ke8 20. Qxg6+ Rf7 $8 21. cxd5 (21. Rh7
$1) 21...
Ke7 22. Ng3 Qg8 23. Qh5 Rg7 24. Nf5+ Bxf5 25. exf5 Rxg5 26. Qh7+ Kd8
27. Qxg8+
Rxg8 28. a3 Ra8 29. axb4 axb4 30. Ne4 Ra1+ 31. Kd2 Ra2 32. Rb1 Ra5 33.
Bc4 Kc8
34. f6 Kb8 35. f7 Rc8 36. Rhg1 Ra4 37. Rg8 b3 38. Rxc8+ Kxc8 39. Bxb3
Rd4+ 40.
Ke3 Rb4 41. Nd2 Rf4 42. Ra1 Ra4 43. Bxa4 e4 1-0
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Date: 29 Mar 2008 19:51:56
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Please analyze this game.
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Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
> 1. d4 {A sound opening move. First played by El Greco.} Nf6 2. c4 g6
> 3. Nc3 Bg7
You must be kidding.
> 4. e4 d6 5. f3 {The sandwich.}
From which point, there are many variations but they're all rather
same-ish.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Crystal Lotion (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a soothing hand lotion but it's
completely transparent!
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Date: 29 Mar 2008 09:12:09
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please analyze this game.
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> Dude you must me a sociopath. =A0You were just told what the problem is
> and your saying you think your program will automatically see these
> mistakes. =A0What don't you understand? =A0Your program doesn't see these
> mistakes. =A0Some people in here have given you invalueable advice on
> how to make a better program and you throw it under a bus.
It is very difficult to grasp what Help Bot is saying? Once I
understand what he is saying then only I can improve.
He is saying Do not allow the Opponent to create a Blocked Center.
There are 1000s of ways to block the Center. How will I tell the
Beginner Level what to do for stopping the Blockade. Every game there
are 100s of possibilities. I am unable to grasp what should beginner
level do to stop opponent from blocking the center?
Incase Center is Blocked how myuch penalty should be given.
And further what is the condition of Blocking the Center. Is it only
the pawns or also the pieces like Knight & Bishops.
Once I understand what and Why? I can add it to GetClub.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 28 Mar 2008 22:19:53
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please analyze this game.
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I think Easy & Normal Levels will automatically see these mistakes
because of their long depth of Calculation.
Have you tried playing such match against Easy / Normal Levels?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 29 Mar 2008 06:51:08
From: EZoto
Subject: Re: Please analyze this game.
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On Fri, 28 2008 22:19:53 -0700 (PDT), Sanny
<[email protected] > wrote:
>I think Easy & Normal Levels will automatically see these mistakes
>because of their long depth of Calculation.
>
>Have you tried playing such match against Easy / Normal Levels?
>
>Bye
>Sanny
>
>Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Dude you must me a sociopath. You were just told what the problem is
and your saying you think your program will automatically see these
mistakes. What don't you understand? Your program doesn't see these
mistakes. Some people in here have given you invalueable advice on
how to make a better program and you throw it under a bus.
EZoto
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Date: 28 Mar 2008 18:27:25
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Please analyze this game.
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On 28, 2:45 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > My advice would be to remove this line
> > from your program's opening repertoire and
> > have it play something where the center is
> > opened up; computers are very weak at
> > anticipating long-range, unstoppable
> > attacks which involve throwing the kitchen
> > sink at the enemy King, as in this line.
>
> Which are the wrong moves in opening that I should remove and what are
> the correct moves?
I'm no openings encyclopedia, but your
program obviously plays several different
openings poorly-- including this one.
> > As can be seen, "spook" randomly tossed
> > his Kingside pawns forward, with no regard
> > for doing things in the correct order so as
> > to win the race that was supposed to be
> > taking place; Black is supposed to open
> > lines to the White King in his own rabid
> > attack on the enemy King, but of course
> > the Beginner level has no clue.
>
> How could Beginner Stopped the attack what were the moves it should
> have played to stop the pawn attacks?
The attack is based on White playing B-h6,
taking on g7 and then following up with Q-h6+.
All that is needed to stop the mating attack
is a well-timed p-h5. However, that means
White can attack in other ways-- which is
why I would remove this entire line from its
openings book.
> > What you want is an open game, where
> > humans may overlook a tactical fork or two,
> > not a closed center with wing attacks.
> > However, if your program were sufficiently
> > strong at "tough defense", it could score a
> > few wins by exploiting over-zealous-human
> > mistakes even in these lines; but the truth
> > is, theGetClubprogram is a very poor
> > defender and seems much stronger on
> > offense.
>
> What should be done if the opponent created a closed Center.
You need to "steer for" lines in which the
center will *not* get closed.
> Is there
> any way to destroy this close Center? By exchange etc?
Black can get crazy on the other wing, as
world champion Gary Kasparov used to do.
Moves like ...a6, ...c6 and ...b5 will at least
give White something to think about besides
how to quickly force checkmate on Black's
King. But in general, this is precisely the
kind of position where even a relatively weak
player can beat a computer, by going for the
King, willy nilly.
-- help bot
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Date: 27 Mar 2008 23:45:45
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please analyze this game.
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> =A0 My advice would be to remove this line
> from your program's opening repertoire and
> have it play something where the center is
> opened up; computers are very weak at
> anticipating long-range, unstoppable
> attacks which involve throwing the kitchen
> sink at the enemy King, as in this line.
Which are the wrong moves in opening that I should remove and what are
the correct moves?
> =A0 As can be seen, "spook" randomly tossed
> his Kingside pawns forward, with no regard
> for doing things in the correct order so as
> to win the race that was supposed to be
> taking place; Black is supposed to open
> lines to the White King in his own rabid
> attack on the enemy King, but of course
> the Beginner level has no clue.
How could Beginner Stopped the attack what were the moves it should
have played to stop the pawn attacks? As advancing pawns on King side
would have created more problems.
> =A0 What you want is an open game, where
> humans may overlook a tactical fork or two,
> not a closed center with wing attacks.
> However, if your program were sufficiently
> strong at "tough defense", it could score a
> few wins by exploiting over-zealous-human
> mistakes even in these lines; but the truth
> is, theGetClubprogram is a very poor
> defender and seems much stronger on
> offense.
What should be done if the opponent created a closed Center. Is there
any way to destroy this close Center? By exchange etc?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 27 Mar 2008 18:42:43
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Please analyze this game.
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On 27, 3:41 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> In this game why was beginner Level Lost?
Sanny, I have beaten up on your Beginner
level countless times using this very same
line. It is a well-known attacking variation
used against the Sicilian Dragon setup,
and even a weak player -- like this guy --
can effect the crushing attack without any
particular finesse.
My advice would be to remove this line
from your program's opening repertoire and
have it play something where the center is
opened up; computers are very weak at
anticipating long-range, unstoppable
attacks which involve throwing the kitchen
sink at the enemy King, as in this line.
As can be seen, "spook" randomly tossed
his Kingside pawns forward, with no regard
for doing things in the correct order so as
to win the race that was supposed to be
taking place; Black is supposed to open
lines to the White King in his own rabid
attack on the enemy King, but of course
the Beginner level has no clue.
What you want is an open game, where
humans may overlook a tactical fork or two,
not a closed center with wing attacks.
However, if your program were sufficiently
strong at "tough defense", it could score a
few wins by exploiting over-zealous-human
mistakes even in these lines; but the truth
is, the GetClub program is a very poor
defender and seems much stronger on
offense.
-- help bot
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