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Date: 12 Jul 2008 00:49:26
From: help bot
Subject: Match of the Century
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Here is what happened when I set the world's
strongest chess program, Rybka, as best I
could to simulate a Knight-odds match versus
GetClub... .
First, Rybka takes on the new "Baby" level:
1. Nb1-a3{12} e7-e5{0}
2. Na3-b5{4} Nb8-c6{4}
3. Nb5-d6{8} Bf8-d6{2}
Please note that I deliberately gave away the
White Knight, before handing things over to
Rybka.
4. g2-g3{96} Qd8-f6{8}
5. d2-d3{136} Bd6-c5{22}
6. e2-e3{102} Nc6-b4{8}
7. c2-c3{54} Nb4-d5{2}
8. Bf1-g2{76} Ng8-e7{4}
9. Ng1-f3{44} Rh8-f8{10}
10. Ke1-g1{48} h7-h6{2}
11. d3-d4{60} e5-d4{2}
12. e3-d4{48} Bc5-d6{2}
13. c3-c4{36} c7-c6{26}
The piece is regained.
14. c4-d5{32} Ne7-d5{4}
15. Nf3-e5{62} Bd6-e5{4}
16. Rf1-e1{28} b7-b5{14}
17. Bg2-d5{40} c6-d5{2}
18. Bc1-f4{26} Qf6-c6{10}
19. Ra1-c1{38} Qc6-b7{16}
20. Re1-e5{46} Ke8-d8{0}
21. Qd1-g4{54} g7-g5{4}
22. Bf4-g5{26} f7-f6{2}
23. Bg5-f6{16} Rf8-f6{0}
Baby level resigned, as it now sees
forced checkmate coming. If we
stretch the limit to 25 moves, this is a
miniature-- while effectively giving QN
odds!
-- help bot
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Date: 17 Jul 2008 02:09:11
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Match of the Century
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> > I am looking for a game where you play without help of Fritz.
>
> =A0 I am wondering if -- even with the help of
> Fritz -- you could ever defeat the GetClub
> program. =A0;>D
Oh I forgot you used Rybka. Looking for more games from you. But not
with the help of Rybka.
Whats the rating of GetClub Easy level as per its game?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 16 Jul 2008 18:05:38
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Match of the Century
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On Jul 12, 6:50 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > 13. h3-g4{172} Bc8-g4{0}
> > 14. Bc1-f4{410} Qd6-e7{0}
>
> > The zero times indicate thatGetClub
> > anticipated Rybka's moves correctly,
> > responding immediately (really!).
>
> > 15. c2-c4{382} Qe7-b4{284}
> > 16. Qd3-d2{654} Qb4-c4{20}
> > 17. Bf4-e5{826} h5-h4{48}
>
> Was Rybka really thinking for 800 seconds? Or you wasted that much
> time in making the move?
Where the time indicates 800 seconds, I did
in fact allow Rybka to consider her move for
that length of time. The reason I did so was
to try and compensate for the fact that I not
only gave away Rybka's QN, but I also took
three moves to do so, and thus any decent
chess player should win the game easily--
all other things being equal.
If I gave away Rybka's QN, plus the three
moves that maneuver takes (i.e. 1. Na3,
2. Nb5, 3. Nd6+), and forced her to move
quickly, a loss would not mean very much.
It would be akin to putting a muzzle on
Hannibal Lector, and then bragging because
he was (temporarily) unable to bite you.
> What was the average time Rybka was taking.
Math? You need me to calculate the, um,
arithmetic mean for you?!! Suppose I don't
know how-- what are you going to do then?
Okay, here's a hint: add up all of Rybka's
thinking-times and then divide the result by
the number of moves she made. This is
fairly advanced stuff... but nothing compared
to learning the goesintos.
> And Master Level can win Beginner even without a Rook.
Ah, but when GetClub plays GetClub, there
is no chance whatever that a weaker level may
"know" something that a stronger level does
not. When humans play one another, there
are many instances where the weaker player
has the superior knowledge.
> I am looking for a game where you play without help of Fritz.
I am wondering if -- even with the help of
Fritz -- you could ever defeat the GetClub
program. ; >D
-- help bot
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 03:50:56
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Match of the Century
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> 13. h3-g4{172} Bc8-g4{0}
> 14. Bc1-f4{410} Qd6-e7{0}
>
> =A0 The zero times indicate thatGetClub
> anticipated Rybka's moves correctly,
> responding immediately (really!).
>
> 15. c2-c4{382} Qe7-b4{284}
> 16. Qd3-d2{654} Qb4-c4{20}
> 17. Bf4-e5{826} h5-h4{48}
Was Rybka really thinking for 800 seconds? Or you wasted that much
time in making the move?
What was the average time Rybka was taking.
Here is a general rule at GetClub.
When you increase time "4 times" GetClub increases 1 Level.
When you increase time "16 times" GetClub increases 2 Level.
With 1 Level up the game has 1.5 points Stronger So a Pawn and half.
So if a level thinks 4 times longer it can win with 1.5 points loss.
With 2 Level up the game is 3 points Stronger So a Knight up.
So if a level thinks 16 times longer it can win with 3 points loss.
That is a knight extra.
So increasing 2 levels you actually get a Knight Extra. "2 Levels"
means 16 times more Time.
Normal is 2 Level high than Beginner Level So Normal can win Beginner
Level without a Knight.
And Master Level can win Beginner even without a Rook.
And Advance Level can win Beginner even without a Queen.
I have tried such and found this happens really.
So every 4 times increase in time gives you 1.5 extra points
And every 16 times increase in time gives you 3 extra points (A extra
Knight)
I am looking for a game where you play without help of Fritz.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 02:06:49
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Match of the Century
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And here is the result of my test of Rybka
versus GetClub's Easy level (i.e. its third
weakest level):
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM22477&game=Chess
1. Nb1-a3{8} e7-e5{0}
2. Na3-b5{2} a7-a6{46}
3. Nb5-d6{20} Bf8-d6{36}
Note that I deliberately gave away the
White Knight, then handed the game off
to Rybka. In all these games, GetClub
not only gets a free piece, but also a
small lead in development, to boot.
4. g2-g3{28} Ng8-f6{110}
5. Bf1-g2{34} Nb8-c6{52}
6. Ng1-f3{248} Bd6-c5{0}
7. Nf3-e5{260}
I dreaded this because of the unavoidable
simplification, but Rybka prefers Bishops
to Knights, and the game is after all,
between the two players.
... Bc5-f2{86}
8. Ke1-f2{46} Nc6-e5{26}
9. d2-d4{192} Ne5-g4{20}
10. Kf2-e1{288} d7-d5{54}
11. h2-h3{216} Qd8-d6{86}
12. Qd1-d3{256} h7-h5{0}
Here, Easy level voluntarily returns the
extra piece, rather than retreat it; bad idea.
13. h3-g4{172} Bc8-g4{0}
14. Bc1-f4{410} Qd6-e7{0}
The zero times indicate that GetClub
anticipated Rybka's moves correctly,
responding immediately (really!).
15. c2-c4{382} Qe7-b4{284}
16. Qd3-d2{654} Qb4-c4{20}
17. Bf4-e5{826} h5-h4{48}
This looks like the dreaded horizon effect
--where the program does something self-
destructive to push something even worse
over its relatively shallow "horizon" of sight.
18. Rh1-h4{706} Rh8-h4{34}
19. g3-h4{60} Ra8-d8{88}
20. b2-b3{290} Qc4-b5{0}
21. Ra1-c1{662} Nf6-e4{0}
22. Bg2-e4{332} d5-e4{0}
23. Rc1-c7{204} Ke8-f8{0}
24. a2-a4{118} Qb5-b3{24}
Rybka already has worked out that the
spite checks lead nowhere, so it wins
material by force.
25. Qd2-g5{508} Qb3-b4{0}
26. Ke1-f2{168} Kf8-e8{60}
27. Qg5-g4{86} Rd8-d4{0}
28. Qg4-g7{134} e4-e3{76}
29. Kf2-f3{278} Rd4-d7{66}
30. Rc7-c8{94} Rd7-d8{0}
31. Qg7-h8{36} Qb4-f8{2}
32. Rc8-d8{34} Qf8-h8{0}
GetClub's Easy level resigned, seeing
a forced mate coming.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Even effectively giving Knight odds, Rybka
puts away GetClub's lower levels in short
order, provided you allow her to think long
enough on the key moves. This reminds
me a bit of the "key position" from an
earlier game posted to rgc in which a
program called Ivan was playing GetClub,
and when I took that position and gave the
"dead lost" side to Rybka against Fritz5.32,
she saved the day with an amazing display
of tactical wizardry.
I got the feeling that my small modifications
to Rybka's default settings were, perhaps,
not helping. I set her contempt factor to 20
(out of 100) and switched from "neutral" to
"slightly optimistic" outlook -- hoping to
reduce the odds of a voluntary draw by
repetition of position -- for all three of these
test games.
On the whole, Rybka seems to be winning
more quickly while giving Knight odds than
I am, even-up. Hmm... (maybe I should find
a way to give away both her Knights?).
-- help bot
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Date: 12 Jul 2008 01:09:24
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Match of the Century
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> Here is what happened when I set the world's
> strongest chess program, Rybka, as best I
> could to simulate a Knight-odds match versus
> GetClub... .
And here is the result of my test against the
next-stronger level, Beginner:
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM22468&game=Chess
1. Nb1-a3{10} e7-e5{0}
2. Na3-b5{2} Nb8-c6{10}
3. Nb5-d6{30} Bf8-d6{8}
Please note that I deliberately gave away
the White Knight, and only then handed
the reigns over to Rybka.
4. g2-g3{20} Qd8-f6{6}
5. d2-d3{40} Bd6-c5{34}
6. Ng1-f3{108} d7-d5{0}
7. c2-c3{368} h7-h6{32}
8. Qd1-a4{446} Bc8-e6{0}
9. Bf1-g2{178} Ng8-e7{0}
10. Ke1-g1{168} Ke8-g8{18}
11. b2-b4{234} Bc5-b6{14}
12. b4-b5{188} Nc6-a5{0}
13. Qa4-c2{188} Be6-g4{18}
14. Bc1-b2{460} Qf6-f5{0}
15. a2-a4{210} Bg4-f3{10}
16. Bg2-f3{246} Na5-c4{0}
17. Bb2-c1{172} Rf8-e8{28}
18. Bf3-g2{246} Nc4-d6{0}
Black appears to be exploiting tactics
to re-centralize the side-tracked steed;
nice.
19. Bc1-a3{278} e5-e4{0}
Unfortunately, the tactics are too deep
for the Beginner level here, and it returns
the extra piece.
20. a4-a5{196} e4-d3{22}
21. e2-d3{136} Nd6-b5{0}
22. Ba3-e7{170} Re8-e7{0}
23. a5-b6{90} c7-b6{0}
24. Qc2-b2{276} Nb5-d6{26}
25. Qb2-b4{206} Ra8-d8{0}
26. Ra1-a7{322} Qf5-d3{0}
27. Qb4-b6{302} Re7-e8{12}
28. Qb6-d4{2} Qd3-d4{10}
29. c3-d4{40} Nd6-b5{0}
30. Ra7-b7{150} Nb5-d4{0}
Hmm-- a "simple" draw?
31. Rf1-a1{296} Rd8-d6{0}
32. Kg1-f1{216} Nd4-c2{10}
33. Ra1-c1{302} Rd6-c6{0}
34. Kf1-g1{252} Rc6-c5{0}
35. Rb7-d7{466} d5-d4{0}
36. Bg2-d5{270}
The contempt factor?
... Kg8-h7{0}
37. Bd5-f7{340} Re8-e4{0}
38. Rd7-d6{274} Re4-g4{0}
39. f2-f3{598} Rg4-g5{22}
40. h2-h4{34} Rg5-g3{20}
41. Kg1-f2{42} Rg3-f3{8}
42. Kf2-f3{20} Rc5-f5{12}
43. Kf3-e4{34} Rf5-f7{12}
44. Rc1-c2{24} d4-d3{0}
45. Rd6-d3{30} g7-g6{0}
46. Rd3-c3{32} Kh7-g7{20}
47. Rc3-c7{24} Rf7-c7{8}
48. Rc2-c7{12} Kg7-g8{12}
49. Ke4-e5{22} Kg8-f8{12}
50. Ke5-f6{20} Kf8-e8{10}
51. Kf6-g6{14} h6-h5{18}
52. Kg6-h5{16} Ke8-d8{12}
53. Rc7-g7{14} Kd8-c8{8}
54. Kh5-g6{14} Kc8-d8{0}
Beginner level now resigned, seeing the
forced mate coming several moves ahead.
A much tougher game than against the
Baby level.
-- help bot
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