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Main
Date: 11 Jun 2008 04:25:35
From: samsloan
Subject: How would the Online Chess Life work?
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How would the Online Chess Life work?
Bill Goichberg continues aggressively to push his =93New Plan=94 to turn
Chess Life into an online publication, but he has failed to explain
how this would work.
The current Chess Life of 80 pages, if converted to PDF Format, would
be a 86 megabyte download.
86 megabytes is a big download, even for those of us with cable
Internet access, as I have. 86 MB is an impossible download for
anybody using dialup. I would be interested in seeing statistics. How
many USCF members have Internet access, how many have dial-up, how
many have cable, how many have DSL? Many USCF members probably access
the Internet from the public library. The library probably gives them
only 30 minutes. It is not practical to read Chess Life that way.
What would the format be? For photographs, the standard for print
publications is at least 300 dpi. However, for normal HTML access,
standard is 72 dpi. This is because computer screens are 72 dpi. Does
Bill Goichberg anticipate that most USCF members will download Chess
Life each month and then print it out on his home printer? Have you
ever tried to print out even one page at 300 dpi? It takes a long
time. Do you know what the price of ink for most printers is now? The
cost of just printing Chess Life every month on your home printer,
just for the ink alone not to mention the time and inconvenience, will
be considerable.
I believe that most USCF members do what I do, which is flip through
the magazine when we first receive it and then put Chess Life aside,
planning to read it later but rarely getting around to it. However, if
online, most members will not even look at it.
Frankly, I doubt that Bill Goichberg has even thought about these
problems. He is just pushing ahead with an online Chess Life, as
though this were a magic bullet.
Perhaps Bill Goichberg wants to convert Chess Life to HTML Format, and
convert all the pictures to 72 dpi. That would make it more readable,
but then the assumption is that the member will only read it on his
computer screen, and never actually download it. It will also require
an additional staff member to perform the time consuming task of
converting Chess Life from PDF to HTML. So, the USCF will have to hire
a new person. The cost of this extra person will probably eliminate
the savings by his =93New Plan=94. Remember that Goichberg is claiming
that his =93New Plan=94 will =93save=94 $86,000 per year. How much will this=
new person cost? By the way, people who do this sort of work expect to
be paid well.
One way to answer these questions would be for Bill Goichberg to
produce one issue of Chess Life in the online format that he proposes.
Then we could all look at it and see if we like it. Just take the
current, already published, issue of Chess Life and post it online.
Then we will all be able to see if like it and are willing to give up
our paper printed Chess Life to be replaced by this. We will also be
able to see how many members even look at it.
I will bet that Bill Goichberg cannot produce even one acceptable
issue of an online Chess Life. Frankly, I do not believe that
Goichberg has even thought about these issues. Goichberg lives a
vagabond life, traveling from chess tournament to chess tournament and
horse racing track to horse racing track. He does not put down roots
long enough to be familiar with these issues.
The Goichberg =93New Plan=94 will send us into a black hole from which
there will be no return. If Gouchberg gets a majority of the votes at
the USCF Delegates Meeting in Dallas on August 9, 2008, that will be
it and that will be, in the opinion of many, the end of Chess Life
magazine as we know it.
Would it not be a good idea to have the answers to these questions
before the meeting and the vote?
Sam Sloan
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Date: 18 Jun 2008 22:20:42
From:
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
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help bot wrote:
>
>
> And the endgame table-bases are all shallow,
> having a paltry 5 or 6 men on the board. Every
> time I want to see if a simple endgame is a
> draw or a win, I find that it can't handle the
> "complexity" because you have to count the
> two Kings, leaving just four other men at most.
>
> -- help bot
There are no tablebases for more than six pieces.
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Date: 19 Jun 2008 08:57:49
From: nobody
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
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SBD wrote:
> So I ask again: is Chessville really becoming the most popular site?
> Again, it appears poorly designed and cluttered to me.... And what
> makes it great? More than just "those who do...." might help.
Chessville has recently been revamped
http://www.yourmailinglistprovider.com/pubarchive_show_message.php?David+334
wherein you should find a cleaner layout also, since you're into
chess-problems you might find P. Wong's efforts fruitful
http://www.chessville.com/chessprints/2008/20080615.htm I'm not, into
chess-probs., & hope he gets dumped real soon. My preference is for the
mate in 2 or 3 type format (my blitz training I suppose) over the new,
to my way of thinking sneaky, white to move & win etc. which might go 15
moves deep & is generally lifted from some high-level game. I mean, if
you've got all day etc. The cheat/solution is available to those
thoroughly flummoxed & I'm critical of Chessville here for forcing one
to cheat. There's also a new photo-shop/collage, em - cartoon feature,
which, cheesy grins aside shows some promise. hth..
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Date: 17 Jun 2008 20:41:13
From: help bot
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
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On Jun 17, 9:49 am, SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> > yes, even Edward Winter's site, which makes it
> > somewhat difficult to locate things by placing a
> > number of unrelated items on the "front page", and
> > the bulk of the rest in archives... which will almost
> > invariably score either too many "hits", or else
> > none at all in any given search.
> I always found Winter's site easy to maneuver, and found it easy to
> find past articles too
Here's the problem: this guy, for reasons unknown,
writes seemingly random bits and pieces, numbering
them rather than organizing things according to
subject matter. Yes, you can locate things by
doing a search on some word or phrase, but that
will bring up every instance wherein such word was
ever mentioned, including gobs of mis-hits.
> there is an easy search bar at the top - for
> example, when I was looking for something he had written in the past
> on the Dutch problemist Verveen, it popped right up....
Indeed, you were lucky. When I searched for
Mr. Bilguer, I got nothing but false hits; that
would not happen if things were better organized.
For instance, when you go to Wikipedia it
recognizes when there are too many hits and
launches a "disambiguation" page, where you
can pick from, say, Mr. Bilguer the chess
player, Bilguer's Handbook, Fred Bilguer the
famous nose-picker, the chess games of Mr.
Bilguer, or the Bilguer Gambit.
> Doesn't the simplicity of the "chess puzzles" at the shredder site
> bewilder you?
I never tried them. In my experience, there are
a lot of weirdos out there who construct hideous
chess problems which in no way resemble real
chess, so I just stay away. : >D
> Here we have one of the best chess programs in the world
> and the puzzles are all fool's mates sort of things.....
And the endgame table-bases are all shallow,
having a paltry 5 or 6 men on the board. Every
time I want to see if a simple endgame is a
draw or a win, I find that it can't handle the
"complexity" because you have to count the
two Kings, leaving just four other men at most.
The typical visitor to the site may well be a
complete patzer, so if they had truly difficult
puzzles, folks could get frustrated and then
go to GetClub.com or someplace more their
speed. If you want decent puzzles, you can
try chessgames.com, where they extract
real chess positions from grandmaster play
and the difficulty level varies widely.
But back to Edward Winter's Web site: I
found zero on Mr. Bilguer himself, which
quite frankly, left me cold. On other sites I
found articles by dullards, one of whom
credited Mr. Bilguer (or was it Mr. Bledow,
whose game was mis-attributed...) when his
move happened to match Fritz's. Another
noted that it was mostly guesswork as to
who played certain games now commonly
attributed to Mr. Bilguer, and upon which
his reputation is mainly constructed. It was
also clear that due to Mr. Bilguer's premature
death, we have the possibility of the same
sort of hype that comes about whenever a
famous musician or actor is killed, in a plane
crash for instance; their reputations
seemingly grow overnight, into Fischeresque
proportions.
In "researching" Mr. Bilguer, I stumbled
across a casual remark that Mr. Bledow was
regarded as the strongest of the Pleiades
(not Mr. Bilguer). I wanted to analyze his
games, to see for myself if the reality
matched the hype, but it appears nobody
knows for certain how many games were
actually his, and how many were played by
some other guy whose initial happened to be
the same.
In sum, the comment by Mr. Sloan, that Mr.
Bilguer was one of the strongest chess
players in the world, seems to be supported
mainly by guesswork, sympathy, or the same
stuff that is often found to be supporting Mr
Sloan's assertions: his imagination.
-- help bot
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Date: 18 Jun 2008 10:31:16
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_R.?=
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
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>
>> Here we have one of the best chess programs in the world
>> and the puzzles are all fool's mates sort of things.....
>
> And the endgame table-bases are all shallow,
> having a paltry 5 or 6 men on the board. Every
> time I want to see if a simple endgame is a
> draw or a win, I find that it can't handle the
> "complexity" because you have to count the
> two Kings, leaving just four other men at most.
And where do you think you can find tables for
endgames with more pieces?
>
> But back to Edward Winter's Web site: I
> found zero on Mr. Bilguer himself, which
> quite frankly, left me cold. On other sites I
> found articles by dullards, one of whom
> credited Mr. Bilguer (or was it Mr. Bledow,
> whose game was mis-attributed...) when his
> move happened to match Fritz's. Another
> noted that it was mostly guesswork as to
> who played certain games now commonly
> attributed to Mr. Bilguer, and upon which
> his reputation is mainly constructed. It was
> also clear that due to Mr. Bilguer's premature
> death, we have the possibility of the same
> sort of hype that comes about whenever a
> famous musician or actor is killed, in a plane
> crash for instance; their reputations
> seemingly grow overnight, into Fischeresque
> proportions.
>
> In "researching" Mr. Bilguer, I stumbled
> across a casual remark that Mr. Bledow was
> regarded as the strongest of the Pleiades
> (not Mr. Bilguer).
Search Google Books for "von der Lasa" and
you will find a digitized book (soon to be
published by the FISHI PRESS, no doubt) "Berliner
Schacherinnerungen". This describes the
doings at the Berlin chess club, where all these
guys congregated. This books contains many
games by Bledow against Bilguer, von der Lasa,
Hanstein etc. The comment that Bledow was recognized
as the strongest player in this group comes from
von der Lasa.
> I wanted to analyze his
> games, to see for myself if the reality
> matched the hype, but it appears nobody
> knows for certain how many games were
> actually his, and how many were played by
> some other guy whose initial happened to be
> the same.
>
> In sum, the comment by Mr. Sloan, that Mr.
> Bilguer was one of the strongest chess
> players in the world, seems to be supported
> mainly by guesswork, sympathy, or the same
> stuff that is often found to be supporting Mr
> Sloan's assertions: his imagination.
I think imagination isn't the right word here since
it suggests that Sloan is imaginative, which he isn't.
Sloan is simply uncritical. He is unable
to tell the difference between truth and falsehood,
just as he can't tell the difference between a beautiful
young virgin and a Far-Eastern harlot.
>
>
> -- help bot
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Date: 17 Jun 2008 19:29:06
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
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On Jun 17, 7:21 pm, Frisco Del Rosario <[email protected] > wrote:
> In article
> <3db517d5-4320-4af7-b58c-988f395c7...@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>
> SBD <[email protected]> wrote:
> > But then again, I think AJ Goldsby won best website one year
>
> Good heavens. Really?!
>
> > - and it was incredibly cluttered and hard to read, in my opinion,
>
> You can say that again.
>
> I served as a judge for the CJA awards for two years (and as the editor
> of its rag for a while). The rules said that if an entry was the only
> entry in a category, then it was OK to vote for 'no award'. I did that
> once, for some publication that made Sanny's user interface and Gordon
> Roy Parker's e-books look good in comparison. The other judges, natch,
> pushed the award through, which I felt diminished every award the
> organization had ever given.
>
> I gave up on the CJA. Haven't paid dues in three years or so, and don't
> feel like I'm missing anything.
Same here.
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Date: 17 Jun 2008 06:55:36
From: SBD
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
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On Jun 17, 8:48 am, The Historian <[email protected] > wrote:
> It's Andean, or a German dialect without "a written language."
Laugh - yes I had forgotten he claimed there was no written version of
Schwaebisch, and then I found a Langenscheidt's dictionary for it
online through a simple search.... that was a classic foot-in-mouth
Phil.
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Date: 17 Jun 2008 06:51:17
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
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On Jun 17, 8:44 am, SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jun 17, 7:22 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I know I am replying to Hillery, but citing another nay-sayer Kingston as
> > similar example to what Hillery does.
>
> No you weren't... or if you were, it was a stupid example. Lumping
> your opposition in convenient little categories doesn't help, Phil.
It's the latest excuse for his chronic inability to see past his own
froth. After all, does it matter who he rages against, as long as he
rages?
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Date: 17 Jun 2008 06:49:22
From: SBD
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
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On Jun 16, 8:22 pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> yes, even Edward Winter's site, which makes it
> somewhat difficult to locate things by placing a
> number of unrelated items on the "front page", and
> the bulk of the rest in archives... which will almost
> invariably score either too many "hits", or else
> none at all in any given search.
I always found Winter's site easy to maneuver, and found it easy to
find past articles too; there is an easy search bar at the top - for
example, when I was looking for something he had written in the past
on the Dutch problemist Verveen, it popped right up....
Doesn't the simplicity of the "chess puzzles" at the shredder site
bewilder you? Here we have one of the best chess programs in the world
and the puzzles are all fool's mates sort of things.....
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Date: 17 Jun 2008 06:48:19
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
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On Jun 17, 8:42 am, SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jun 17, 7:16 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps only people who actual like chess enough to bother to study and play
> > the game should answer - since otherwise this sort of commentary is yet
> > another attempt to suppress any opinion whatever, and merely a vague
> > nihilism, by yet another USCF writer who is quite content to make his own
> > vague utterances in public.
>
> I never understand this sort of response.
It's Andean, or a German dialect without "a written language."
> First of all, I did write a column for USCF for awhile, but really
> didn't think I was doing what needed to be done in my area, chess
> problems, to do the topic justice (I'd mention my physical illnesses
> also that really plagued me at that time, but both Phil and Larry seem
> to love to turn that one into a mental competence debate). But I am
> not a USCF writer by definition anymore than you could say Larry Parr
> is. But isn't someone who wrote a column, also... well, see #2...
You also wrote a column for The Pennswoodpusher, I recall.
> Second, I've won a few international chess problem composing
> tournaments recently. Wouldn't that place me, by definition, as one
> who bothers "to study and play the game" - I certainly study the game,
> and do play, albeit infrequently?
Sane folks think so. Now P Innes, on the other hand.....
> Third, how is asking questions "suppressing opinion"?
Perhaps P Innes meant "questioning authority." His 'authority',
presumably, although the chess world holds he doesn't have any.
> Phil, this sort of argument does not help anyone... If Chessville is
> great, just tell us how and why it is... the results should speak for
> themselves....
>
> So I ask again: is Chessville really becoming the most popular site?
> Again, it appears poorly designed and cluttered to me.... And what
> makes it great? More than just "those who do...." might help.
>
> My interest *is* personal, I've considered starting a chess content
> website (although I probably won't, but I consider the topic
> interesting), so I would be surprised if Chessville was a model to
> emulate. But then again, I think AJ Goldsby won best website one year
> - and it was incredibly cluttered and hard to read, in my opinion,
> again.
The Goldsby website made Chessville look like Chess Cafe.
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Date: 17 Jun 2008 06:44:45
From: SBD
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
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On Jun 17, 7:22 am, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> I know I am replying to Hillery, but citing another nay-sayer Kingston as
> similar example to what Hillery does.
No you weren't... or if you were, it was a stupid example. Lumping
your opposition in convenient little categories doesn't help, Phil.
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Date: 17 Jun 2008 06:42:15
From: SBD
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
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On Jun 17, 7:16 am, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> Perhaps only people who actual like chess enough to bother to study and play
> the game should answer - since otherwise this sort of commentary is yet
> another attempt to suppress any opinion whatever, and merely a vague
> nihilism, by yet another USCF writer who is quite content to make his own
> vague utterances in public.
I never understand this sort of response.
First of all, I did write a column for USCF for awhile, but really
didn't think I was doing what needed to be done in my area, chess
problems, to do the topic justice (I'd mention my physical illnesses
also that really plagued me at that time, but both Phil and Larry seem
to love to turn that one into a mental competence debate). But I am
not a USCF writer by definition anymore than you could say Larry Parr
is. But isn't someone who wrote a column, also... well, see #2...
Second, I've won a few international chess problem composing
tournaments recently. Wouldn't that place me, by definition, as one
who bothers "to study and play the game" - I certainly study the game,
and do play, albeit infrequently?
Third, how is asking questions "suppressing opinion"?
Phil, this sort of argument does not help anyone... If Chessville is
great, just tell us how and why it is... the results should speak for
themselves....
So I ask again: is Chessville really becoming the most popular site?
Again, it appears poorly designed and cluttered to me.... And what
makes it great? More than just "those who do...." might help.
My interest *is* personal, I've considered starting a chess content
website (although I probably won't, but I consider the topic
interesting), so I would be surprised if Chessville was a model to
emulate. But then again, I think AJ Goldsby won best website one year
- and it was incredibly cluttered and hard to read, in my opinion,
again.
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Date: 17 Jun 2008 17:21:34
From: Frisco Del Rosario
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
In article
<3db517d5-4320-4af7-b58c-988f395c7a33@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com >,
SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> But then again, I think AJ Goldsby won best website one year
Good heavens. Really?!
> - and it was incredibly cluttered and hard to read, in my opinion,
You can say that again.
I served as a judge for the CJA awards for two years (and as the editor
of its rag for a while). The rules said that if an entry was the only
entry in a category, then it was OK to vote for 'no award'. I did that
once, for some publication that made Sanny's user interface and Gordon
Roy Parker's e-books look good in comparison. The other judges, natch,
pushed the award through, which I felt diminished every award the
organization had ever given.
I gave up on the CJA. Haven't paid dues in three years or so, and don't
feel like I'm missing anything.
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Date: 16 Jun 2008 18:22:11
From: help bot
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 16, 4:55 pm, SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> > Chessville is simply overtaking everyone else
>
> That would surprise me, as it is a very unattractive site - to my eyes
> as least. Too busy, too much content I have no interest in, and
> difficult to maneuver through.
>
> Or is that just me?
The last time I looked, it appeared to be trying to
have a link to every item on the entire site, right on
the home page! That's not a good way to handle
things.
Some other famous ugly sites are GetClub.com,
which has butterflies floating about and which also
attempts to cram too much onto a single page, and
yes, even Edward Winter's site, which makes it
somewhat difficult to locate things by placing a
number of unrelated items on the "front page", and
the bulk of the rest in archives... which will almost
invariably score either too many "hits", or else
none at all in any given search.
So then, what constitutes a, shall I say, /more
elegant/ design? Try taking a gander at the Web
site: www.shredderchess.com. I'm not saying it's
perfect, mind you, but it lacks the clutter which so
often plagues many other sites. The obvious flaw
is that the entire right-hand third of the screen is
blank-- but this means I could, if I wanted, enlarge
the text without mucking up the works. And
besides, the "tablebases" link plays the endgame
almost as well as I do... .
-- help bot
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Date: 16 Jun 2008 13:55:54
From: SBD
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 16, 11:39 am, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> Chessville is simply overtaking everyone else
That would surprise me, as it is a very unattractive site - to my eyes
as least. Too busy, too much content I have no interest in, and
difficult to maneuver through.
Or is that just me?
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Date: 17 Jun 2008 08:16:28
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
"SBD" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:af01632f-2528-4000-8dc4-a0cfc7b17e20@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 16, 11:39 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Chessville is simply overtaking everyone else
>
> That would surprise me, as it is a very unattractive site - to my eyes
> as least. Too busy, too much content I have no interest in, and
> difficult to maneuver through.
>
> Or is that just me?
It may not be just you, and you are in a minority - and that is objective
fact to those who do find the site interesting and can manage to negotiate
our weekly content.
Of course, the reader is left in doubt to what content would be of interest,
either at Chessville or at CL Online, to the writer.
Perhaps only people who actual like chess enough to bother to study and play
the game should answer - since otherwise this sort of commentary is yet
another attempt to suppress any opinion whatever, and merely a vague
nihilism, by yet another USCF writer who is quite content to make his own
vague utterances in public.
Phil Innes
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Date: 16 Jun 2008 16:49:38
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:55:54 -0700 (PDT), SBD <[email protected] >
wrote:
>On Jun 16, 11:39 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Chessville is simply overtaking everyone else
>That would surprise me, as it is a very unattractive site - to my eyes
>as least. Too busy, too much content I have no interest in, and
>difficult to maneuver through.
>Or is that just me?
No. It has the jumbled and cluttered appearance of something from the
early ages of commercial web sites. However, there *are* some worthy
nuggets there, if one pokes around.
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Date: 16 Jun 2008 09:17:35
From: pdboddy
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
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I just want to know why all the rabid paranoia over pdf. :P
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Date: 15 Jun 2008 16:54:57
From:
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
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Chess One wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:bd191b15-e96c-44d2-8ca6-1596373c5edc@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Chess One wrote:
> >> >
> >> > And it is possible to restrict the pdf to USCF membership only, and if
> >> > someone were to distribute it, it is possible to know who, and to take
> >> > steps to rectify the situation.
> >>
> >> Its easy to publish the whole thing as an anon, therefore, what remedy is
> >> there?
> >
> > Encrypted PDFs can only be read on an "activated" computer (takes
> > about two minutes to register), and cannot be printed.
>
> What then is the point of the download, compared to just reading the
> material on a website? This thread actually follows the idea of a download
> and then printing the mag at home. I wonder if our Taylor hasn't gone off on
> a *special* tangent again? I expect this will be my fault.
>
> > That's what
> > most e-book sellers do. Whether this is actually what the USCF wants
> > is an open question,
>
> That means Our Taylor doesn't know, but this does not inhibit his opinion.
>
> > but it seems clear that Philsy knows nothing
>
> But naturally, since our Taylor is never at fault, his nothingness is the
> fault of others, including not sticking to any context that others are
> using, while still replying to their text.
>
> > about the subject and ought to keep quiet about things he doesn't
> > understand.
> >
> >
> >> Chessville is vastly larger per week than the proposed USCF On Line is
> >> per
> >> month, but there are rarely copyright probems.
> >
> > How do you measure your "circulation"? I believe you send it to me
> > every week, but it goes straight to the junk folder.
>
> We measure it 4 ways - same as most everyone else. Most reliable for page
> views is the server itself. For comparisons with others, and trends, there
> are at least 2 engines - these cannot always descriminate against wholesale
> auto-SPAM, but over the long term, trending is good. Plus we have a
> proprietary option.
>
> But -ROFL- Our Taylor diverts again to his *own* special context, and that
> is reason to insult other people. Personally I think the range and scope of
> material at Chessville is at least equivalent with Our Taylor's favorite,
> Chesscafe. But I do read there, which makes mine a considered opinion.
>
> Perhaps Our Taylor thinks Chesscafe is the best US oriented chess site
> because he doesn't dare compare - all the while Chessville's circulation
> numbers a re overhauling that of Chesscafe!
>
> But that too is how CL or CL on-line aughta work! Measure measure measure!
>
> [btw] I asked a few days ago if anyone knew the readership of the On-line
> CL, and number of page hits. Is this an official secret?
>
> I have a number of per/month hits for all USCF site reading, and Chessville
> [and Chesscafe] have half as much again. But what is CL on-lines readership?
>
> >>The difficulty with the
> >> rip-off is that on-line columns can't usually be re-presented as simply
> >> print articles.
> >
> > Does this make any sense at all? An on-line column can be copied,
> > pasted, modified and reformatted a lot more easily than hard copy.
>
> Gawd! Representing the full range of online copy requires another website! -
> otherwise where is the replay engine? For this media, [text only] where are
> the photos, the charts? Where are the chess positions? Where are the chess
> fonts and other iconography?
>
> If anyone at all can consistently get things wrong, its Our Taylor, the
> computer 'expert' who has only recently managed to use usenet posting
> protocols, but and as ani ful no, that too is my fault.
>
> Phil Innes
1) I'm much taller than Taylor Kingston, Philsy.
2) How can someone work in the web publishing business and be as
ignorant of the subject as Innes? (Well, perhaps he's an unpaid
volunteer. He'd be worth every penny. Almost.) "(R)equires another web
site"? They're dirt cheap. I have about half a dozen, though a couple
of them are legacies or test sites. Speaking of tests, I just copied
the source code of an "Alekhine's Parrot" page, plugged it into a
blank HTML doc, and uploaded it. Worked fine. (Don't worry, I deleted
it afterward. Wouldn't want to pollute my server.) It's true that the
photos/graphics might take an extra minute or two to download/upload,
and maybe tweak the HTML, but the effort involved is trivial.
Certainly it's trivial compared to xeroxing and reprinting a hard-copy
magazine.
You should get out more, Phil. And maybe take a high school
equivalency course. You might also benefit from a course in English as
a second language.
|
| | |
Date: 16 Jun 2008 12:39:25
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 1) I'm much taller than Taylor Kingston, Philsy.
And I'm not gay, John, so stop trying ;)
> 2) How can someone work in the web publishing business and be as
> ignorant of the subject as Innes?
Well, since you write only trash about others here - is that they extent of
your own knowledge - come on, who reads John Hillery and what does he know
about web-publishing? If he knew something to contribute, why doesn't he do
it? ROFL.
> (Well, perhaps he's an unpaid
> volunteer. He'd be worth every penny. Almost.) "(R)equires another web
> site"? They're dirt cheap. I have about half a dozen, though a couple
> of them are legacies or test sites.
Ah... I see. Or rather, what has this to do with the conversation here?
Against who or what is Hillery arguing?
> Speaking of tests, I just copied
> the source code of an "Alekhine's Parrot" page, plugged it into a
> blank HTML doc, and uploaded it. Worked fine. (Don't worry, I deleted
> it afterward. Wouldn't want to pollute my server.) It's true that the
> photos/graphics might take an extra minute or two to download/upload,
> and maybe tweak the HTML, but the effort involved is trivial.
Sure it is. What I do every week in that very column is the same, from
websites around the world. That's how you know who winning, and what people
look like :)
Quite why anyone should download CL remains entirely unclear.
> Certainly it's trivial compared to xeroxing and reprinting a hard-copy
> magazine.
>
> You should get out more, Phil. And maybe take a high school
> equivalency course. You might also benefit from a course in English as
> a second language.
Chessville is simply overtaking everyone else, and this goon from the CJA is
content to offer spurious advice to me, who doubled its readership over 4
years - ignoring the nominal topic of Chess Life online.
I think John Hillery will be able to read a series of reports soon at
Chessville about CJA itself - ballot irregularity, financial irregularities,
even legal irregularities - all brought to you by the geniuses who fuel
USCF's sense of immunity to its, uh... complete failure on all fronts?
As yet another example of contributions to chess, its hard to beat Hillery
here. He is so in denial that he can't even broach the subject - instead
does the usual good-old-boy thing, of trying to ensure no one else does
either.
Phil Innes
|
| |
Date: 15 Jun 2008 15:59:28
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 15, 11:29 am, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:bd191b15-e96c-44d2-8ca6-1596373c5edc@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Chess One wrote:
>
> >> > And it is possible to restrict the pdf to USCF membership only, and if
> >> > someone were to distribute it, it is possible to know who, and to take
> >> > steps to rectify the situation.
>
> >> Its easy to publish the whole thing as an anon, therefore, what remedy is
> >> there?
>
> > Encrypted PDFs can only be read on an "activated" computer (takes
> > about two minutes to register), and cannot be printed.
>
> What then is the point of the download, compared to just reading the
> material on a website? This thread actually follows the idea of a download
> and then printing the mag at home. I wonder if our Taylor hasn't gone off on
> a *special* tangent again? I expect this will be my fault.
>
> > That's what
> > most e-book sellers do. Whether this is actually what the USCF wants
> > is an open question,
>
> That means Our Taylor doesn't know, but this does not inhibit his opinion.
>
> > but it seems clear that Philsy knows nothing
>
> But naturally, since our Taylor is never at fault, his nothingness is the
> fault of others, including not sticking to any context that others are
> using, while still replying to their text.
>
> > about the subject and ought to keep quiet about things he doesn't
> > understand.
>
> >> Chessville is vastly larger per week than the proposed USCF On Line is
> >> per
> >> month, but there are rarely copyright probems.
>
> > How do you measure your "circulation"? I believe you send it to me
> > every week, but it goes straight to the junk folder.
>
> We measure it 4 ways - same as most everyone else. Most reliable for page
> views is the server itself. For comparisons with others, and trends, there
> are at least 2 engines - these cannot always descriminate against wholesale
> auto-SPAM, but over the long term, trending is good. Plus we have a
> proprietary option.
>
> But -ROFL- Our Taylor diverts again to his *own* special context, and that
> is reason to insult other people. Personally I think the range and scope of
> material at Chessville is at least equivalent with Our Taylor's favorite,
> Chesscafe. But I do read there, which makes mine a considered opinion.
>
> Perhaps Our Taylor thinks Chesscafe is the best US oriented chess site
> because he doesn't dare compare - all the while Chessville's circulation
> numbers a re overhauling that of Chesscafe!
>
> But that too is how CL or CL on-line aughta work! Measure measure measure!
>
> [btw] I asked a few days ago if anyone knew the readership of the On-line
> CL, and number of page hits. Is this an official secret?
>
> I have a number of per/month hits for all USCF site reading, and Chessville
> [and Chesscafe] have half as much again. But what is CL on-lines readership?
>
> >>The difficulty with the
> >> rip-off is that on-line columns can't usually be re-presented as simply
> >> print articles.
>
> > Does this make any sense at all? An on-line column can be copied,
> > pasted, modified and reformatted a lot more easily than hard copy.
>
> Gawd! Representing the full range of online copy requires another website! -
> otherwise where is the replay engine? For this media, [text only] where are
> the photos, the charts? Where are the chess positions? Where are the chess
> fonts and other iconography?
>
> If anyone at all can consistently get things wrong, its Our Taylor, the
> computer 'expert' who has only recently managed to use usenet posting
> protocols, but and as ani ful no, that too is my fault.
>
> Phil Innes
He must be Your Taylor. To the rest of the world, he is John Hillery.
|
| | |
Date: 17 Jun 2008 08:22:39
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
"The Historian" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:92a7f1b0-de4d-4f4c-9838-552d7c2ec144@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> Gawd! Representing the full range of online copy requires another
>> website! -
>> otherwise where is the replay engine? For this media, [text only] where
>> are
>> the photos, the charts? Where are the chess positions? Where are the
>> chess
>> fonts and other iconography?
>>
>> If anyone at all can consistently get things wrong, its Our Taylor, the
>> computer 'expert' who has only recently managed to use usenet posting
>> protocols, but and as ani ful no, that too is my fault.
>>
>> Phil Innes
>
> He must be Your Taylor. To the rest of the world, he is John Hillery.
I know I am replying to Hillery, but citing another nay-sayer Kingston as
similar example to what Hillery does.
Meanwhile USCF boosters have contributed nothing to how CL On-line would
work, and simple do the usual thing, ignore every objective fact, mock
experience more than their own any time they encounter it, and devolve the
entire conversation to personality assassination.
And people wonder why USCF is in trouble when it is surrounded by this
clueless crew!
Phil Innes
|
| |
Date: 15 Jun 2008 03:47:09
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 14, 11:55 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> Chess One wrote:
>
> > > And it is possible to restrict the pdf to USCF membership only, and if
> > > someone were to distribute it, it is possible to know who, and to take
> > > steps to rectify the situation.
>
> > Its easy to publish the whole thing as an anon, therefore, what remedy is
> > there?
>
> Encrypted PDFs can only be read on an "activated" computer (takes
> about two minutes to register), and cannot be printed. That's what
> most e-book sellers do. Whether this is actually what the USCF wants
> is an open question, but it seems clear that Philsy knows nothing
> about the subject and ought to keep quiet about things he doesn't
> understand.
But then he'd never post at all, on any subject! Wait.....
> > Chessville is vastly larger per week than the proposed USCF On Line is per
> > month, but there are rarely copyright probems.
>
> How do you measure your "circulation"? I believe you send it to me
> every week, but it goes straight to the junk folder.
Ah, it reminds me of the early days of Chessville, where they "auto-
subscribed" folks (AKA harvested email addresses.) To be removed from
the list they made you register at their website. Just a reminder that
the low road is the normal path Chessville takes. It didn't start with
P Innes.
> >The difficulty with the
> > rip-off is that on-line columns can't usually be re-presented as simply
> > print articles.
>
> Does this make any sense at all? An on-line column can be copied,
> pasted, modified and reformatted a lot more easily than hard copy.
Have you read Alekhine's Parrot? P Innes has copied stuff from
newsgroup posts and screwed up even a simple cut and paste. Is it any
wonder he doesn't think one can reformat online material?
|
| | |
Date: 15 Jun 2008 12:40:27
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
"The Historian" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Jun 14, 11:55 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>> Chess One wrote:
>>
>> > > And it is possible to restrict the pdf to USCF membership only, and
>> > > if
>> > > someone were to distribute it, it is possible to know who, and to
>> > > take
>> > > steps to rectify the situation.
>>
>> > Its easy to publish the whole thing as an anon, therefore, what remedy
>> > is
>> > there?
>>
>> Encrypted PDFs can only be read on an "activated" computer (takes
>> about two minutes to register), and cannot be printed. That's what
>> most e-book sellers do. Whether this is actually what the USCF wants
>> is an open question, but it seems clear that Philsy knows nothing
>> about the subject and ought to keep quiet about things he doesn't
>> understand.
>
> But then he'd never post at all, on any subject! Wait.....
The resident abuser who writes on chess subject at the same frequency as Ray
Gordon, has agreed with Our Taylor that a way to print the magazine at home
is to use an interface which does not allow printing.
Neither genius say what the use of a download therefore is... Wonder what
other gems they got to say about?
>> > Chessville is vastly larger per week than the proposed USCF On Line is
>> > per
>> > month, but there are rarely copyright probems.
>>
>> How do you measure your "circulation"? I believe you send it to me
>> every week, but it goes straight to the junk folder.
>
> Ah, it reminds me of the early days of Chessville, where they "auto-
> subscribed" folks (AKA harvested email addresses.) To be removed from
> the list they made you register at their website. Just a reminder that
> the low road is the normal path Chessville takes. It didn't start with
> P Innes.
A onetime list purchase of an outfit about to be defunct required
cancellation if you didn't want to receive it. Our Neil remembers this from
8 years ago, and it still smarts! All that effort!
But there is nothing like Our Neil for passing up the opportunity to whine -
and twist stuff too. All he needs is some bozo to attack others off-topic
and its open season.
>> >The difficulty with the
>> > rip-off is that on-line columns can't usually be re-presented as simply
>> > print articles.
>>
>> Does this make any sense at all? An on-line column can be copied,
>> pasted, modified and reformatted a lot more easily than hard copy.
>
> Have you read Alekhine's Parrot? P Innes has copied stuff from
> newsgroup posts and screwed up even a simple cut and paste. Is it any
> wonder he doesn't think one can reformat online material?
No you twit! he already said he receives the newsletter [never reads it] and
throws it away unread! Learn to read.
As for our recent columns since Christmas, we have the first regular column
on Women's Chess in the world, we have a new guy from the military writing a
very well received column on tactics, a chess publisher writing for
typically more advanced players, and a new column out of the Marshall
illustrating some of the best chess being played in the country every
month - and with high level contributions to that column. Not bad for a few
months!
Neither of these bozos stoop to write on chess, can't understand much of
what others write, or rather, don't care too. But have more opinions than
those who do.
Phil Innes
|
| |
Date: 15 Jun 2008 01:13:09
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 15, 1:20 am, johnny_t <[email protected] > wrote:
> samsloan wrote:
> > [quote="Mulfish"]All of this debate about which medium is better is
> > rather pointless, since it is a matter of personal preference. Some
> > despise print, some despise on-line, and some prefer one but are
> > flexible. That's the only really relevant reality.[/quote]
>
> > You miss the whole point. The point is that Bill Goichberg wants to
> > offer the online version of Chess Life at $12 less than the print
> > version.
>
> > The concern is that so many members will chose the cheaper online
> > version that there will not be enough subscribers to the printed
> > version and the printed version will cease to be published.
>
> > When that happens those subscribers will drop out and the only members
> > left will be those who get the online version, most of whom will be
> > members only so they can play in rated tournaments.
>
> > Soon, there will be so few of those that even the online version of
> > Chess Life will cease publication and before long the entire
> > organization will fold.
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> But Sam you miss the whole point. As with your mythic members that will
> drop because there is no print CL, there are all they mythic members
> that will join because membership is 12 dollars cheaper.
>
> The question is who has more mythic members???
The only people like that will be those who want to play in a rated
tournament who are willing to pay $29 to join the USCF but would not
have been willing to pay $42 to join the USCF.
There will no doubt be some for whom the difference between the $29
rate and the $42 rate is vital, but I think their numbers will be
small.
I do not believe that there will be anybody who wants to join the USCF
just to get a $29 online Chess Life and does not want to play in a
rated tournament.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2008 21:55:41
From:
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
Chess One wrote:
> >
> > And it is possible to restrict the pdf to USCF membership only, and if
> > someone were to distribute it, it is possible to know who, and to take
> > steps to rectify the situation.
>
> Its easy to publish the whole thing as an anon, therefore, what remedy is
> there?
Encrypted PDFs can only be read on an "activated" computer (takes
about two minutes to register), and cannot be printed. That's what
most e-book sellers do. Whether this is actually what the USCF wants
is an open question, but it seems clear that Philsy knows nothing
about the subject and ought to keep quiet about things he doesn't
understand.
> Chessville is vastly larger per week than the proposed USCF On Line is per
> month, but there are rarely copyright probems.
How do you measure your "circulation"? I believe you send it to me
every week, but it goes straight to the junk folder.
>The difficulty with the
> rip-off is that on-line columns can't usually be re-presented as simply
> print articles.
Does this make any sense at all? An on-line column can be copied,
pasted, modified and reformatted a lot more easily than hard copy.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Jun 2008 12:29:18
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:bd191b15-e96c-44d2-8ca6-1596373c5edc@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Chess One wrote:
>> >
>> > And it is possible to restrict the pdf to USCF membership only, and if
>> > someone were to distribute it, it is possible to know who, and to take
>> > steps to rectify the situation.
>>
>> Its easy to publish the whole thing as an anon, therefore, what remedy is
>> there?
>
> Encrypted PDFs can only be read on an "activated" computer (takes
> about two minutes to register), and cannot be printed.
What then is the point of the download, compared to just reading the
material on a website? This thread actually follows the idea of a download
and then printing the mag at home. I wonder if our Taylor hasn't gone off on
a *special* tangent again? I expect this will be my fault.
> That's what
> most e-book sellers do. Whether this is actually what the USCF wants
> is an open question,
That means Our Taylor doesn't know, but this does not inhibit his opinion.
> but it seems clear that Philsy knows nothing
But naturally, since our Taylor is never at fault, his nothingness is the
fault of others, including not sticking to any context that others are
using, while still replying to their text.
> about the subject and ought to keep quiet about things he doesn't
> understand.
>
>
>> Chessville is vastly larger per week than the proposed USCF On Line is
>> per
>> month, but there are rarely copyright probems.
>
> How do you measure your "circulation"? I believe you send it to me
> every week, but it goes straight to the junk folder.
We measure it 4 ways - same as most everyone else. Most reliable for page
views is the server itself. For comparisons with others, and trends, there
are at least 2 engines - these cannot always descriminate against wholesale
auto-SPAM, but over the long term, trending is good. Plus we have a
proprietary option.
But -ROFL- Our Taylor diverts again to his *own* special context, and that
is reason to insult other people. Personally I think the range and scope of
material at Chessville is at least equivalent with Our Taylor's favorite,
Chesscafe. But I do read there, which makes mine a considered opinion.
Perhaps Our Taylor thinks Chesscafe is the best US oriented chess site
because he doesn't dare compare - all the while Chessville's circulation
numbers a re overhauling that of Chesscafe!
But that too is how CL or CL on-line aughta work! Measure measure measure!
[btw] I asked a few days ago if anyone knew the readership of the On-line
CL, and number of page hits. Is this an official secret?
I have a number of per/month hits for all USCF site reading, and Chessville
[and Chesscafe] have half as much again. But what is CL on-lines readership?
>>The difficulty with the
>> rip-off is that on-line columns can't usually be re-presented as simply
>> print articles.
>
> Does this make any sense at all? An on-line column can be copied,
> pasted, modified and reformatted a lot more easily than hard copy.
Gawd! Representing the full range of online copy requires another website! -
otherwise where is the replay engine? For this media, [text only] where are
the photos, the charts? Where are the chess positions? Where are the chess
fonts and other iconography?
If anyone at all can consistently get things wrong, its Our Taylor, the
computer 'expert' who has only recently managed to use usenet posting
protocols, but and as ani ful no, that too is my fault.
Phil Innes
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2008 14:53:16
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 14, 4:39 pm, pdboddy <[email protected] > wrote:
> Not sure what the rest of your rant has to do with whether they should
> go with a pdf/download model or not. Though, if you think the
> reporting and writing sucks, and that the articles are not aimed at
> you... why do you care if the magazine folds, or switches formats?
> You seem to imply things have been this way for a while and won't
> change in the near future. So why do you care?
"Those grapes were probably sour anyway."
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2008 14:39:08
From: pdboddy
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 14, 2:15 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "pdboddy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Its easy to publish the whole thing as an anon, therefore, what remedy is
> there?
It is possible to digitally sign, or watermark, each downloaded pdf,
with the user's name, or account number, or the order number, or
whatever other identifier you wish to use. Removing that isn't
exactly easy, but I'll grant that it can be done. If someone is going
to crack it and then distribute it, you at least have the one sale.
If someone doesn't crack it, then you have an identifying feature you
can trace to them, and through that, pursue them in court.
> Chessville is vastly larger per week than the proposed USCF On Line is per
> month, but there are rarely copyright probems. The difficulty with the
> rip-off is that on-line columns can't usually be re-presented as simply
> print articles.
Uh, it is possible to convert HTML into pdf, or other file formats,
and it's not exactly difficult either. Any protection you have for a
website can be cracked, if someone wants to take the time to do so.
As mentioned above, it can be done for pdfs too. Damned if you do and
damned if you don't.
> What on-line publications do is other than what print can - you can, eg, use
> a game replay engine to go through a game, or capture the game directly in
> e-format for your own database - not to mention e-links to material cited
> elsewhere as providing a rich intercontextual market impoossible to do in
> print - the weakest of all web-publishing is direct conversion of
> print-to-web which is merely common in two senses of the word. Each media
> have their benefits, but these depend on intelligent use of media chosen.
> Images, charts and interactive resources make web-publications a different
> animal than print ones.
Yes, thank you. I do work in print production, and web publication.
I do know the difference.
> What I want in print is something worth considering for longer than I wish
> to look at a computer screen, or when screens are unavailable. I want
> something that is indexed, can go into a chess library. I want it for 10
> years, more!
If you have a pdf, you can view it electronically, or print it (or
have it printed for you). So you can have your index, and it'll last
as long as ink and paper last. What is your point here?
Not sure what the rest of your rant has to do with whether they should
go with a pdf/download model or not. Though, if you think the
reporting and writing sucks, and that the articles are not aimed at
you... why do you care if the magazine folds, or switches formats?
You seem to imply things have been this way for a while and won't
change in the near future. So why do you care?
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2008 12:51:19
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 14, 1:15 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
The semi-literate troll P Innes opines:
> The first aspect is that journalism at CL sucks - opinion is not
> independent, is usually anodyne, cannot be critical of USCF itself,
We await an article in Alekhine's Parrot criticizing Chessville.
and
> neither is it well marketed to any target audience, whether the article is
> historical, about chess management, or the main subject of chess, which is a
> level of appreciation of chess skill. CL's level is somewhere between
> tactics for post-beginners up to and mid-club player. It rarely goes into
> anything in depth for the active tournament player, or anyone much above
> 1800 rating - and these are the people who play most rated chess!
Snip P Innes twaddle.
Real journals
> require good journalism. CL don't got none of that these days, neither is
> that supported by it's own editor, nor is it allowed by Cap'n Bill, the
> President, since this is after all, all about.
Please note P Innes has stated on more than one occasion he never
reads Chess Life. That fact noted, recall P Innes has never been
published anywhere aside from Chessville; he is Business Manager for
the site.Add in P Innes' strange assumption that journalism must bite
the hand that feeds it, and you have a flesh and thud derangement of a
journalist-manque.
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2008 20:59:41
From: pdboddy
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 13, 9:15 pm, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> [quote="Mulfish"]All of this debate about which medium is better is
> rather pointless, since it is a matter of personal preference. Some
> despise print, some despise on-line, and some prefer one but are
> flexible. That's the only really relevant reality.[/quote]
>
> You miss the whole point. The point is that Bill Goichberg wants to
> offer the online version of Chess Life at $12 less than the print
> version.
>
> The concern is that so many members will chose the cheaper online
> version that there will not be enough subscribers to the printed
> version and the printed version will cease to be published.
>
> When that happens those subscribers will drop out and the only members
> left will be those who get the online version, most of whom will be
> members only so they can play in rated tournaments.
>
> Soon, there will be so few of those that even the online version of
> Chess Life will cease publication and before long the entire
> organization will fold.
>
> Sam Sloan
Yes, and after a long while, the sun will use up it's fuel and go
supernova. :P
Seriously though, this is a bit of paranoia, isn't it?
DriveThruRPG offers discount prices on PDF versions of popular
roleplaying games. Usually 1/4 to 1/3 off the paper versions. Do you
see Wizards of the Coast (and thusly, Hasbro) going bankrupt? Or
White Wolf? Steve Jackson Games? DriveThruRPG does a brisk business
in selling the pdfs, and the gaming companies do just fine putting out
the paper versions. Done well, a magazine can do the same. And
there's an advantage to having pdf version, in that you can always,
always, always offer your back catalogue, long after the original
print run has vanished.
It's only proper to offer a lower price on something many people see
as ephemeral, you can't hold or smell a pdf file, there's almost a
visceral bliss or joy holding and reading a book or magazine,
something that's missing from a pdf. And, as many people might
acknowledge, there are a few drawbacks to pdfs, namely a difficulty
some people having reading a computer screen for lengths of time that
people might take to read a magazine or book.
The future of publishing, whether it be novels, newspapers or
magazines, is going to be a melding of print and electronic. Some
people will pay extra to have a physical copy, while others will
happily download pdf (or whatever future file formats become the
"lingua franca" of the online world). If you cannot offer both, then
you will not be reaching the maximum number of subscribers.
But, I doubt this path will make you happy. You sound like the type
who'll pout sourly if this direction succeeds, but be the first to
say, "I told you so!" should it fail.
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2008 18:15:09
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
[quote="Mulfish"]All of this debate about which medium is better is
rather pointless, since it is a matter of personal preference. Some
despise print, some despise on-line, and some prefer one but are
flexible. That's the only really relevant reality.[/quote]
You miss the whole point. The point is that Bill Goichberg wants to
offer the online version of Chess Life at $12 less than the print
version.
The concern is that so many members will chose the cheaper online
version that there will not be enough subscribers to the printed
version and the printed version will cease to be published.
When that happens those subscribers will drop out and the only members
left will be those who get the online version, most of whom will be
members only so they can play in rated tournaments.
Soon, there will be so few of those that even the online version of
Chess Life will cease publication and before long the entire
organization will fold.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2008 10:27:53
From: pdboddy
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 13, 12:45 pm, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> Chess Life is currently sent to the printers in PDF Format. Therefore,
> no conversion would be required to put it on line.
>
> However, the file is large, 85 Megabytes for the current issue. It
> would be time consuming and expensive to download and print it. Also,
> someone could and, no doubt, someone would simply download and post it
> on the Internet, so USCF membership would no longer be required to get
> it.
>
> Sam Sloan
Obviously, if 85 megs is too large for downloading, then some
conversion is necessary.
And it is possible to restrict the pdf to USCF membership only, and if
someone were to distribute it, it is possible to know who, and to take
steps to rectify the situation.
But, as with anything, there are no guarantees that the magazine,
print or pdf, won't be stolen.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2008 14:15:14
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
"pdboddy" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Jun 13, 12:45 pm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Chess Life is currently sent to the printers in PDF Format. Therefore,
>> no conversion would be required to put it on line.
>>
>> However, the file is large, 85 Megabytes for the current issue. It
>> would be time consuming and expensive to download and print it. Also,
>> someone could and, no doubt, someone would simply download and post it
>> on the Internet, so USCF membership would no longer be required to get
>> it.
>>
>> Sam Sloan
>
> Obviously, if 85 megs is too large for downloading, then some
> conversion is necessary.
>
> And it is possible to restrict the pdf to USCF membership only, and if
> someone were to distribute it, it is possible to know who, and to take
> steps to rectify the situation.
Its easy to publish the whole thing as an anon, therefore, what remedy is
there?
Chessville is vastly larger per week than the proposed USCF On Line is per
month, but there are rarely copyright probems. The difficulty with the
rip-off is that on-line columns can't usually be re-presented as simply
print articles.
NOT EITHER OR, BUT APPROPRIATE FOR...
What on-line publications do is other than what print can - you can, eg, use
a game replay engine to go through a game, or capture the game directly in
e-format for your own database - not to mention e-links to material cited
elsewhere as providing a rich intercontextual market impoossible to do in
print - the weakest of all web-publishing is direct conversion of
print-to-web which is merely common in two senses of the word. Each media
have their benefits, but these depend on intelligent use of media chosen.
Images, charts and interactive resources make web-publications a different
animal than print ones.
What I want in print is something worth considering for longer than I wish
to look at a computer screen, or when screens are unavailable. I want
something that is indexed, can go into a chess library. I want it for 10
years, more!
DON'T FORGET THE WRITING
The problems here are multifold, and not only as has been discussed in these
threads.
The first aspect is that journalism at CL sucks - opinion is not
independent, is usually anodyne, cannot be critical of USCF itself, and
neither is it well marketed to any target audience, whether the article is
historical, about chess management, or the main subject of chess, which is a
level of appreciation of chess skill. CL's level is somewhere between
tactics for post-beginners up to and mid-club player. It rarely goes into
anything in depth for the active tournament player, or anyone much above
1800 rating - and these are the people who play most rated chess!
It does engage scholastic interest, but not for long, the drop-pout rate, or
turn-over rate among Scholastic members is something like 85% per year. An
appalling statistic! And let us presume that CL as is does little to keep
them in the game.
That is the result of one-publication-serves-all mentality, whereas its
obvious that it serves hardly anyone or any identified skill range.
DORKS, READ ON
I have to think back to when I received it - my favorite column was a Silman
one, which I subtitled 'insult a Yank', but which proper title was something
like Professional Mind, Amateur Mind. While it was entirely understandable
that "amateur's" would play certain moves, as demonstrated in the column,
and "professionals" other moves, there was never any sense of what to do
about the difference!
Since there could only have been about 2 players in the entire country who
could call themselves "professionals" by virtue of //playing// chess at the
time, Seirawan and maybe then, Browne, I thought the column a fantastic
send-up of what any column should be. Imagine insulting 100% of your
audience all the time! He might have just called it "Patzer's Mind,
Nevermind."
FABULOUS
So yeah - nevermind the electronic or business aspects. Real journals
require good journalism. CL don't got none of that these days, neither is
that supported by it's own editor, nor is it allowed by Cap'n Bill, the
President, since this is after all, all about.
And he don't care two shakes for your opinion, nor mine, nor anyone else's!
He is a bit like the Gollum character in LotR, and he has gained his
'precious', though tragically he is no Frodo, and doesn't know he must not
'own it', otherwise there will be tears.
Phil Innes
> But, as with anything, there are no guarantees that the magazine,
> print or pdf, won't be stolen.
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2008 09:45:30
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
Chess Life is currently sent to the printers in PDF Format. Therefore,
no conversion would be required to put it on line.
However, the file is large, 85 Megabytes for the current issue. It
would be time consuming and expensive to download and print it. Also,
someone could and, no doubt, someone would simply download and post it
on the Internet, so USCF membership would no longer be required to get
it.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2008 09:32:19
From: pdboddy
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 10:49 pm, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> You apparently fail to understand that our magazines already have
> editors. Dan Lucas is the editor of Chess Life and Glenn Petersen is
> the editor of Chess Life For Kids.
>
> Do you plan to fire them and replace them with yourself, or do you
> plan merely to convert the existing magazines into PDF or HTML format?
>
> Sam Sloan
I was speaking to your statement that they would have to hire a new
person to do the work, and I pointed out that I could do it for less
than the figure you stated. As could any number of experienced folks,
who would likely undercut me. That's IF they decided it was worth
hiring an extra body.
The current editors could certainly do the job. Converting the
existing magazines to pdf is child's play, converting it to HTML is
simply tedious. No firing is required or necessary.
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2008 09:13:56
From: pdboddy
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 13, 12:10 pm, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jun 13, 11:57 am, pdboddy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I think the key word there is: proposal. Obviously such a proposal
> > will be debated and thought about, right?
>
> It is more than just a proposal. It has already been passed by the
> USCF Executive Board 6-0. Apparently there was
> very little debate on the issue. Almost nothing has appeared on the
> BINFOS about this, nor was there much discussion about this during the
> public session of the last board meeting.
>
> Sam Sloan
Then obviously they thought it a good idea.
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2008 09:10:21
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 13, 11:57 am, pdboddy <[email protected] > wrote:
> I think the key word there is: proposal. Obviously such a proposal
> will be debated and thought about, right?
It is more than just a proposal. It has already been passed by the
USCF Executive Board 6-0. Apparently there was
very little debate on the issue. Almost nothing has appeared on the
BINFOS about this, nor was there much discussion about this during the
public session of the last board meeting.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2008 08:57:28
From: pdboddy
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 12, 9:47 am, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jun 12, 9:03 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Quadibloc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:601b0686-4353-4a70-a5bd-8bfe87c54416@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > On Jun 11, 5:25 am, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >> The current Chess Life of 80 pages, if converted to PDF Format, would
> > >> be a 86 megabyte download.
>
> > 1) Are people really discussing printing 80 downloaded pages with color
> > images on their home printers? :))
>
> > 2) What is the current hit-rate for CL On-line in terms of (a) unique visits
> > per week, and (b) number of pages viewed per visit?
>
> > Phil Innes
>
> These are good questions, and Bill Goichberg should have thought about
> and addressed those
> questions before making his ridiculous and half-baked proposal.
>
> Sam Sloan
I think the key word there is: proposal. Obviously such a proposal
will be debated and thought about, right?
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2008 08:45:35
From: pdboddy
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 11:16 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> The advantages of PDF are that the editor can generate a file after
> the issue is done with no additional effort, and the experience of the
> "electronic" recipients will be as close as possible to that of the
> "real" subscribers. The disadvantages are heavy load on bandwidth (at
> both ends), and the absence of things that some people have come to
> expect from on-line material, like hyperlinks and interactive boards.
Actually, the latest versions of PDFs allow hyperlinking, including
mailto links. And Acrobat 9 offers embedded flash, so it won't be
long before a pdf can offer interactive boards and chat rooms. :)
The biggest issues with offering a magazine on pdf is the bandwidth
load, especially for popular magazines.
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2008 08:41:11
From: pdboddy
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 12, 9:26 am, The Historian <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jun 12, 8:03 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Quadibloc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > 1) Are people really discussing printing 80 downloaded pages with color
> > images on their home printers? :))
>
> Why must they PRINT it? Couldn't it be read on the computer?
It's not a matter of having to print it. Print should be an option
though, and there are people who might have trouble reading a magazine
on a computer. By not offering the option of printing it, or having
it printed and mailed, you would stand to lose some of your readership
base. There's no point in switching your publishing models to save
money, if you're only going to lose a chunk of your readership base...
especially since offering a print version and an online, downloadable
version, is easy.
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2008 08:24:05
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 13, 6:26 am, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "The Historian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > On Jun 12, 8:03 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> "Quadibloc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >> 1) Are people really discussing printing 80 downloaded pages with color
> >> images on their home printers? :))
>
> > Why must they PRINT it? Couldn't it be read on the computer?
>
> Quite. The only reason to download anything is to print it, or use it
> otherwise.
Which reminds me, you still haven't given the newsgroups your 'expert'
comments on the big historical article in the June Chess Life.
|
| |
Date: 12 Jun 2008 12:14:52
From: SBD
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 12, 8:26 am, The Historian <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jun 12, 8:03 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Quadibloc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > 1) Are people really discussing printing 80 downloaded pages with color
> > images on their home printers? :))
>
> Why must they PRINT it? Couldn't it be read on the computer?
I have one those little disk drives (thumbnails?) and I have
downloaded probably a thousand years (yes I have entire print runs of
some magazines) worth of different chess magazines onto it. I use it
all the time, and would probably treat a digital CL the same way.
Actually it seems to me that I can get to the part of the magazine
that is most important to me quicker with pdf copies - for CL, that
would be Benko for me....
|
| |
Date: 12 Jun 2008 06:47:24
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 12, 9:03 am, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "Quadibloc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:601b0686-4353-4a70-a5bd-8bfe87c54416@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Jun 11, 5:25 am, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> The current Chess Life of 80 pages, if converted to PDF Format, would
> >> be a 86 megabyte download.
>
> 1) Are people really discussing printing 80 downloaded pages with color
> images on their home printers? :))
>
> 2) What is the current hit-rate for CL On-line in terms of (a) unique visits
> per week, and (b) number of pages viewed per visit?
>
> Phil Innes
These are good questions, and Bill Goichberg should have thought about
and addressed those
questions before making his ridiculous and half-baked proposal.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 12 Jun 2008 06:26:08
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 12, 8:03 am, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "Quadibloc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> 1) Are people really discussing printing 80 downloaded pages with color
> images on their home printers? :))
Why must they PRINT it? Couldn't it be read on the computer?
|
| | |
Date: 13 Jun 2008 07:26:46
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
"The Historian" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Jun 12, 8:03 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Quadibloc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> 1) Are people really discussing printing 80 downloaded pages with color
>> images on their home printers? :))
>
> Why must they PRINT it? Couldn't it be read on the computer?
Quite. The only reason to download anything is to print it, or use it
otherwise.
Most people don't download anything from chess sites except perhaps game
scores - which are in .pgn format eg. and which they then add to their own
database. PI
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 20:16:06
From:
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
samsloan wrote:
> You apparently fail to understand that our magazines already have
> editors. Dan Lucas is the editor of Chess Life and Glenn Petersen is
> the editor of Chess Life For Kids.
>
> Do you plan to fire them and replace them with yourself, or do you
> plan merely to convert the existing magazines into PDF or HTML format?
>
> Sam Sloan
Sam, you apparently don't understand the concepts of "work" and "pay,"
having had little experience with either. Reformatting all the CL
articles and columns for HTML would significantly increase the
editor's workload. Doubling might be an exaggeration, but x1.5 is
probably a fair estimate. If you ask an employee to do half again as
much work, you're going to have to pay him more.
There is an alternative, of course: stuff the text into HTML and post
the pages any old way. This would result in a crudsite. I believe you
have some experience with those.
The advantages of PDF are that the editor can generate a file after
the issue is done with no additional effort, and the experience of the
"electronic" recipients will be as close as possible to that of the
"real" subscribers. The disadvantages are heavy load on bandwidth (at
both ends), and the absence of things that some people have come to
expect from on-line material, like hyperlinks and interactive boards.
I realize that contact with reality is painful for you, Sam, but it
you want to have any influence on this discussion you should ditch the
paranoid delusions (maybe Marcus can use some extras?), and address
the facts.
|
| | |
Date: 13 Jun 2008 08:58:53
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:16:06 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
>The advantages of PDF are that the editor can generate a file after
>the issue is done with no additional effort, and the experience of the
>"electronic" recipients will be as close as possible to that of the
>"real" subscribers. The disadvantages are heavy load on bandwidth (at
>both ends), and the absence of things that some people have come to
>expect from on-line material, like hyperlinks and interactive boards.
All too often, a PDF reminds me of a lumbering fat man in a room full
of delicate furniture not designed for someone of his frame.
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 19:49:33
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
You apparently fail to understand that our magazines already have
editors. Dan Lucas is the editor of Chess Life and Glenn Petersen is
the editor of Chess Life For Kids.
Do you plan to fire them and replace them with yourself, or do you
plan merely to convert the existing magazines into PDF or HTML format?
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 19:37:53
From: pdboddy
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 7:25 am, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> The current Chess Life of 80 pages, if converted to PDF Format, would
> be a 86 megabyte download.
It could be a lot more, and it could be a lot less. It depends on how
many images, their size and complexity, how many different fonts are
used, page size, the list goes on. But, from reading further down
below, they use QuarkXPress, it should be very easy to get a
manageable sized pdf. You could even make multiple versions of the
pdf, one with minimal graphics and larger font sizes to make it easy
on the eyes to read off of a computer screen (or a device like
Kindle), as well as making a full colour, all-the-bells-and-whistles
pdf that could then be printed on demand, at a place like Lulu.
> 86 megabytes is a big download, even for those of us with cable
> Internet access, as I have. 86 MB is an impossible download for
> anybody using dialup. I would be interested in seeing statistics. How
> many USCF members have Internet access, how many have dial-up, how
> many have cable, how many have DSL? Many USCF members probably access
> the Internet from the public library. The library probably gives them
> only 30 minutes. It is not practical to read Chess Life that way.
Uhm, 86 mg with cable access (even crap cable access that Rogers
Canada has) is easy. And it's not like you have to watch every second
of the download. People wait four weeks for a monthly magazine,
surely they can wait 30 minutes, or 30 hours for that matter.
> What would the format be? For photographs, the standard for print
> publications is at least 300 dpi. However, for normal HTML access,
> standard is 72 dpi. This is because computer screens are 72 dpi. Does
> Bill Goichberg anticipate that most USCF members will download Chess
> Life each month and then print it out on his home printer? Have you
> ever tried to print out even one page at 300 dpi? It takes a long
> time. Do you know what the price of ink for most printers is now? The
> cost of just printing Chess Life every month on your home printer,
> just for the ink alone not to mention the time and inconvenience, will
> be considerable.
They could use a print on demand partner, like Lulu.com. They could
offer free versions of the magazine for download, and full colour jobs
printed at Lulu for a decent price. They don't have to pay for
warehousing, and they don't have to put the whole thing together
themselves, and members wouldn't have to print it off on their own
home printer.
As for the cost, I could probably set up a pdf magazine, and work
things out with a printer company, and do it for less than the 86,000
you mentioned. Heck, there are lots of people who could undercut my
bid. Yes, people doing this expect to get paid well, but once the
initial setup is done, doing the monthly/bimonthly/yearly schedule of
a magazine is easier.
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 15:27:44
From:
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
Quadibloc wrote:
> On Jun 11, 5:25 am, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > The current Chess Life of 80 pages, if converted to PDF Format, would
> > be a 86 megabyte download.
>
> Even documents that are converted to PDF format simply by using
> scanned images aren't 86 megabytes for 80 pages. And that is a very
> inefficient method of conversion; presumably, Chess Life is typeset by
> phototypesetting, not by hand setting of type or by an old-fashioned
> Linotype or Monotype machine, so the text of its articles exists in
> machine-readable form.
>
> So I really don't think that *this* is the major issue here.
>
> John Savard
CL is produced with QuarkXPress and sent to the printer in PDF. So, if
the "electronic version" were a PDF, it would be a free byproduct of
the print magazine production. Putting all the articles on line as
HTML would require significant redesign and layout work, for which
someone would have to be paid. Sloan's comments are obviously drivel,
but I agree that the USCF should make a decision on this and prepare
an implementation plan before asking the Delegates to buy into it.
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 13:48:10
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 3:54 pm, J=FCrgen R. <[email protected] > wrote:
> "samsloan" <[email protected]> schrieb im Newsbeitragnews:05286865-567f-=
[email protected]...
> On Jun 11, 11:52 am, J=FCrgen R. <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > [...]
>
> > >I keep asking,
>
> > You talk but you don't listen
>
> > > Do you know
> > > of any other organization that has made this transformation
> > > successfully?
>
> > Yes: the Swiss, French and English Chess Federations.
>
> You have not been keeping up.
>
> The English Chess Federation has been cited above as an example of
> exactly of what happens when they divest their magazine.
>
> The English Chess Federation now consists of a small group that meet
> regularly to discuss issues but which has absolutely no impact or
> influence any more.
>
> Sam Sloan
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> How do you expect anybody to take you seriously?
>
> Nothing that you say has any basis.
I am just quoting Grandmaster Raymond Keene.
Perhaps you may have heard of him.
Sam Sloan
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 23:56:00
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_R.?=
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
"samsloan" <[email protected] > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
On Jun 11, 3:54 pm, J�rgen R. <[email protected] > wrote:
> "samsloan" <[email protected]> schrieb im
> Newsbeitragnews:05286865-567f-43a9-9fea-22e8e944e1a8@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 11, 11:52 am, J�rgen R. <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > [...]
>
> > >I keep asking,
>
> > You talk but you don't listen
>
> > > Do you know
> > > of any other organization that has made this transformation
> > > successfully?
>
> > Yes: the Swiss, French and English Chess Federations.
>
> You have not been keeping up.
>
> The English Chess Federation has been cited above as an example of
> exactly of what happens when they divest their magazine.
>
> The English Chess Federation now consists of a small group that meet
> regularly to discuss issues but which has absolutely no impact or
> influence any more.
>
> Sam Sloan
>
> ===============================================
>
> How do you expect anybody to take you seriously?
>
> Nothing that you say has any basis.
I am just quoting Grandmaster Raymond Keene.
Perhaps you may have heard of him.
Sam Sloan
======================================================
Yes, I have heard of him. He isn't as completely unreliable as you
are, but it's close.
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 09:33:03
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 9:29 am, SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> It seems to me that the USCF is trying to fix its financial problems
> and come into the Electronic Age. That could be suicidal.
Exactly.
I am a Libertarian and, as a Libertarian, I believe that Bill
Goichberg has every right to commit suicide.
Provided that he does it himself. The rest of us members should not
have to drink his cool-aid.
Just about every long time insider has expressed the view that the
ultimate result of this plan, if it passes, will be to scuttle Chess
Life.
Fortunately, Mike Nolan reports over on the USCF Issues Forum that
powerful forces are assembling to scuttle the Goichberg proposal. I am
like the Pope, to the extent that I have no army. However, there are
chess organizers out there who do have armies and, even as I write
this, they are assembling the troops to defeat the Goichberg "New
Plan".
Just because powerful groups are now assembling to try to kill the
Goichberg "New Plan", that does not mean that anybody should be
sanguine about this.
It is to be noted that the Goichberg "New Plan" was passed by the
board 6-0 and only became known to the general chess-playing public
after I discovered it in the confidential BINFOS and broadcast it.
Even now, few members know about it except those who have been reading
my stuff.
It is a well-known personality characteristic of Bill Goichberg that
when he is convinced of something, he does not care whether everybody
else disagrees with it. He is convinced that he is right and everybody
else is wrong. This is fine as long as he is running the Continental
Chess Association, where he has to suffer the losses if he is wrong
and gets to enjoy the profits if he is right. However, this tendency
to go ahead with a plan even though almost everybody else is telling
him that he is wrong, makes him unsuitable to be the president of a
membership organization like the USCF.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 09:19:20
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 11:52 am, J=FCrgen R. <[email protected] > wrote:
> [...]
>
> >I keep asking,
>
> You talk but you don't listen
>
> > Do you know
> > of any other organization that has made this transformation
> > successfully?
>
> Yes: the Swiss, French and English Chess Federations.
You have not been keeping up.
The English Chess Federation has been cited above as an example of
exactly of what happens when they divest their magazine.
The English Chess Federation now consists of a small group that meet
regularly to discuss issues but which has absolutely no impact or
influence any more.
Sam Sloan
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 21:54:43
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_R.?=
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
"samsloan" <[email protected] > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:05286865-567f-43a9-9fea-22e8e944e1a8@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 11, 11:52 am, J�rgen R. <[email protected] > wrote:
> [...]
>
> >I keep asking,
>
> You talk but you don't listen
>
> > Do you know
> > of any other organization that has made this transformation
> > successfully?
>
> Yes: the Swiss, French and English Chess Federations.
You have not been keeping up.
The English Chess Federation has been cited above as an example of
exactly of what happens when they divest their magazine.
The English Chess Federation now consists of a small group that meet
regularly to discuss issues but which has absolutely no impact or
influence any more.
Sam Sloan
===============================================
How do you expect anybody to take you seriously?
Nothing that you say has any basis.
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 08:12:33
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 10:03 am, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jun 11, 10:27 am, The Historian <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > There are no "secret moves" in chess.
>
> Not that you know of anyway. That is the reason your rating is 1571
> and you have not been a member for four years.
>
> http://uschess.org/msa/MbrDtlMain.php?12672893
>
> There is lots of secret opening analysis in chess. Do you think
> Grandmasters give away all their opening secrets when they write for
> Chess Life? Every grandmaster has secret moves they are waiting to
> spring on their victims. That is the reason they are grandmasters.
Chess is a game of complete information. If you wish to misuse the
term "secret", who am I to stop you. That doesn't make your usage
correct.
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 08:03:07
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 10:27 am, The Historian <[email protected] >
wrote:
>
> There are no "secret moves" in chess.
Not that you know of anyway. That is the reason your rating is 1571
and you have not been a member for four years.
http://uschess.org/msa/MbrDtlMain.php?12672893
There is lots of secret opening analysis in chess. Do you think
Grandmasters give away all their opening secrets when they write for
Chess Life? Every grandmaster has secret moves they are waiting to
spring on their victims. That is the reason they are grandmasters.
>> Does the magazine of the League of American Bicyclists teach you how to ride a bicycle? Does is contain any
> > information that people would be willing to pay money for?
>
> LAB is an advocacy organization:
Exactly my point, the League of American Bicyclists advocates more
bicycle lanes. It makes sense for them to give away their online
publication, and then hope that you join them to get the printed and
more easy to read version.
If that was the Goichberg plan, it would make some sense. However,
Goichberg wants to get people to subscribe at $29 per year just to get
to read the online version of Chess Life. I keep asking, Do you know
of any other organization that has made this transformation
successfully? The one example we have, Inside Chess, ceased
publication not long after it went online.
Sam Sloan
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 11:57:58
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:03:07 -0700 (PDT), samsloan
<[email protected] > wrote:
>If that was the Goichberg plan, it would make some sense. However,
>Goichberg wants to get people to subscribe at $29 per year just to get
>to read the online version of Chess Life. I keep asking, Do you know
>of any other organization that has made this transformation
>successfully? The one example we have, Inside Chess, ceased
>publication not long after it went online.
Consumer Reports lets one subscribe to both the online and print
version ($26 + $18) or just the online ($26)
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 17:52:05
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_R.?=
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
[...]
>
>I keep asking,
You talk but you don't listen
> Do you know
> of any other organization that has made this transformation
> successfully?
Yes: the Swiss, French and English Chess Federations.
> The one example we have, Inside Chess, ceased
> publication not long after it went online.
>
> Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 07:27:42
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 8:03 am, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jun 11, 8:04 am, The Historian <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > I've downloaded an entire year's worth of several magazines at less
> > > than 86, probably half that.
>
> > > Sam you really need to think before you type. The reason why Goichberg
> > > is for this is because he travels from race track to race track,
> > > "never putting down roots"? What a specious argument... you could just
> > > as well say his travels around the country have made him more aware of
> > > member issues....
>
> > > I know of several countries that post the pdfs of their nation's chess
> > > magazines on-line... have you made a comparison with those? Didn't
> > > think so.
>
> > It's not just chess. The League of American Bicyclists and the
> > Adventure Cycling Association also make their magazines available for
> > download. A number of commercial bike magazines, such as Dirt Rag and
> > Mountain Bike Action, also have 'electronic editions.' The practice is
> > spreading.
>
> Following your suggestion I just downloaded an issue of the League of
> American Bicyclists magazine. It is a free download.
>
> http://www.bikeleague.org/members/pdfs/american_bicyclist_nov-dec_07.pdf
>
> That is another issue. People who download things from the Internet
> expect to get them for free. Can you cite an example of an comparable
> organization that charges a subscription fee for their online
> publication?
No, I cannot cite an example of a 'comparable organization' that
regulates both amateur and professional events.
> Or, are you advocating that the USCF should start giving away Chess
> Life free of charge?
I don't care how they distribute the magazine. I merely write for
them.
> Players subscribe to Chess Life because it contains valuable
> information on how to win chess games, such as secret moves, opening
> innovations and the like.
There are no "secret moves" in chess.
Does the magazine of the League of American
> Bicyclists teach you how to ride a bicycle? Does is contain any
> information that people would be willing to pay money for?
LAB is an advocacy organization:
***************
Our Mission
To promote bicycling for fun, fitness and transportation and work
through advocacy and education for a bicycle-friendly America.
We do this by representing the interests of the nation's 57 million
cyclists. With a current membership of 300,000 affiliated cyclists,
including 40,000 individuals and 600 affiliated organizations, the
League works to bring better bicycling to your community.
*************
So is USCF:
*************
Mission
USCF is a not-for-profit membership organization devoted to extending
the role of chess in American society.
USCF promotes the study and knowledge of the game of chess, for its
own sake as an art and enjoyment, but also as a means for the
improvement of society. It informs, educates, and fosters the
development of players (professional and amateur) and potential
players. It encourages the development of a network of institutions
devoted to enhancing the growth of chess, from local clubs to state
and regional associations, and it promotes chess in American schools.
To these ends, USCF offers a monthly magazine, as well as targeted
publications to its members and others. It supervises the organization
of the U.S. chess championship, an open tournament every summer, and
other national events. It offers a wide range of books and services to
its members and others at prices consistent with the benefit of its
members.
USCF serves as the governing body for chess in the United States and
as a participant in international chess organizations and projects. It
is structured to ensure effective democratic procedures in accord with
its bylaws and the laws of the state of Illinois.
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 10:09:02
From: Ray Gordon, creator of the \pivot\
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
not 86mb.
Btw, I suggested doing this five years ago or so. I consider it an
inevitability.
Those who want a printed version of the magazine can print it.
--
Ray Gordon, The ORIGINAL Lifestyle Seduction Guru
Finding Your A-Game:
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
Includes 29 Reasons Not To Be A Nice Guy (FREE!)
The book Neil Strauss and VH-1 STOLE The Pivot From
Click HERE: for the ORIGINAL pivot chapter:
http://www.cybersheet.com/pivot.pdf
Here's my Myspace Page: And Pickup Blog (FREE advice)
http://www.myspace.com/snodgrasspublishing
Don't rely on overexposed, mass-marketed commercial seduction methods which
no longer work. Learn the methods the gurus USE with the money they make
from what they teach.
Thinking of taking a seduction "workshiop?" Read THIS:
http://www.dirtyscottsdale.com/?p=1187
Beware! VH-1's "The Pickup Artst" was FRAUDULENT. Six of the eight
contestants were actors, and they used PAID TARGETS in the club. The paid
targets got mad when VH-1 said "there are no actors in this club" and ruined
their prromised acting credit. What else has Mystery lied about?
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 15:57:06
From: =?Windows-1252?Q?J=FCrgen_R.?=
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
None of the problems you raise below is real. The diatribe
shows, once again that you have no idea what you are
talking about. PDF, HTML, printing speed - as usual you
are off by a factor 10 or more.
"samsloan" <[email protected] > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
How would the Online Chess Life work?
Bill Goichberg continues aggressively to push his �New Plan� to turn
Chess Life into an online publication, but he has failed to explain
how this would work.
The current Chess Life of 80 pages, if converted to PDF Format, would
be a 86 megabyte download.
86 megabytes is a big download, even for those of us with cable
Internet access, as I have. 86 MB is an impossible download for
anybody using dialup. I would be interested in seeing statistics. How
many USCF members have Internet access, how many have dial-up, how
many have cable, how many have DSL? Many USCF members probably access
the Internet from the public library. The library probably gives them
only 30 minutes. It is not practical to read Chess Life that way.
What would the format be? For photographs, the standard for print
publications is at least 300 dpi. However, for normal HTML access,
standard is 72 dpi. This is because computer screens are 72 dpi. Does
Bill Goichberg anticipate that most USCF members will download Chess
Life each month and then print it out on his home printer? Have you
ever tried to print out even one page at 300 dpi? It takes a long
time. Do you know what the price of ink for most printers is now? The
cost of just printing Chess Life every month on your home printer,
just for the ink alone not to mention the time and inconvenience, will
be considerable.
I believe that most USCF members do what I do, which is flip through
the magazine when we first receive it and then put Chess Life aside,
planning to read it later but rarely getting around to it. However, if
online, most members will not even look at it.
Frankly, I doubt that Bill Goichberg has even thought about these
problems. He is just pushing ahead with an online Chess Life, as
though this were a magic bullet.
Perhaps Bill Goichberg wants to convert Chess Life to HTML Format, and
convert all the pictures to 72 dpi. That would make it more readable,
but then the assumption is that the member will only read it on his
computer screen, and never actually download it. It will also require
an additional staff member to perform the time consuming task of
converting Chess Life from PDF to HTML. So, the USCF will have to hire
a new person. The cost of this extra person will probably eliminate
the savings by his �New Plan�. Remember that Goichberg is claiming
that his �New Plan� will �save� $86,000 per year. How much will this
new person cost? By the way, people who do this sort of work expect to
be paid well.
One way to answer these questions would be for Bill Goichberg to
produce one issue of Chess Life in the online format that he proposes.
Then we could all look at it and see if we like it. Just take the
current, already published, issue of Chess Life and post it online.
Then we will all be able to see if like it and are willing to give up
our paper printed Chess Life to be replaced by this. We will also be
able to see how many members even look at it.
I will bet that Bill Goichberg cannot produce even one acceptable
issue of an online Chess Life. Frankly, I do not believe that
Goichberg has even thought about these issues. Goichberg lives a
vagabond life, traveling from chess tournament to chess tournament and
horse racing track to horse racing track. He does not put down roots
long enough to be familiar with these issues.
The Goichberg �New Plan� will send us into a black hole from which
there will be no return. If Gouchberg gets a majority of the votes at
the USCF Delegates Meeting in Dallas on August 9, 2008, that will be
it and that will be, in the opinion of many, the end of Chess Life
magazine as we know it.
Would it not be a good idea to have the answers to these questions
before the meeting and the vote?
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 06:38:30
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 9:29 am, SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> It seems to me that the USCF is trying to fix its financial problems
> and come into the Electronic Age. That could be suicidal, or it could
> rejuvenate the organization.
This is precisely the problem. Goichberg is taking an enormous risk.
Problem is, he does not seem to realize it. Almost every long time
USCF insider has come out against this plan. For starters, every
former USCF President is against it.
If the plan fails, it will kill the organization. If the plan
succeeds, benefits will be small. That is the reason that there is
such tremendous opposition. But, Goichberg is so bull-headed that he
is pushing forward with it, not willing to listen to what anybody else
has to say.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 06:29:51
From: SBD
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 8:03 am, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> organization that charges a subscription fee for their online
> publication?
>
> Or, are you advocating that the USCF should start giving away Chess
> Life free of charge?
>
> Players subscribe to Chess Life because it contains valuable
> information on how to win chess games, such as secret moves, opening
> innovations and the like. Does the magazine of the League of American
> Bicyclists teach you how to ride a bicycle? Does is contain any
> information that people would be willing to pay money for?
Doing business on the Internet - and in certain cases, that may
involve "giving away a magazine for free" in return for other benefits
- is definitely not for the weak of heart.
It seems to me that the USCF is trying to fix its financial problems
and come into the Electronic Age. That could be suicidal, or it could
rejuvenate the organization.
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 06:03:22
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 8:04 am, The Historian <[email protected] > wrote:
> > I've downloaded an entire year's worth of several magazines at less
> > than 86, probably half that.
>
> > Sam you really need to think before you type. The reason why Goichberg
> > is for this is because he travels from race track to race track,
> > "never putting down roots"? What a specious argument... you could just
> > as well say his travels around the country have made him more aware of
> > member issues....
>
> > I know of several countries that post the pdfs of their nation's chess
> > magazines on-line... have you made a comparison with those? Didn't
> > think so.
>
> It's not just chess. The League of American Bicyclists and the
> Adventure Cycling Association also make their magazines available for
> download. A number of commercial bike magazines, such as Dirt Rag and
> Mountain Bike Action, also have 'electronic editions.' The practice is
> spreading.
Following your suggestion I just downloaded an issue of the League of
American Bicyclists magazine. It is a free download.
http://www.bikeleague.org/members/pdfs/american_bicyclist_nov-dec_07.pdf
That is another issue. People who download things from the Internet
expect to get them for free. Can you cite an example of an comparable
organization that charges a subscription fee for their online
publication?
Or, are you advocating that the USCF should start giving away Chess
Life free of charge?
Players subscribe to Chess Life because it contains valuable
information on how to win chess games, such as secret moves, opening
innovations and the like. Does the magazine of the League of American
Bicyclists teach you how to ride a bicycle? Does is contain any
information that people would be willing to pay money for?
Sam Sloan
|
| | |
Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 05:55:52
From: Quadibloc
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 5:25 am, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> The current Chess Life of 80 pages, if converted to PDF Format, would
> be a 86 megabyte download.
Even documents that are converted to PDF format simply by using
scanned images aren't 86 megabytes for 80 pages. And that is a very
inefficient method of conversion; presumably, Chess Life is typeset by
phototypesetting, not by hand setting of type or by an old-fashioned
Linotype or Monotype machine, so the text of its articles exists in
machine-readable form.
So I really don't think that *this* is the major issue here.
John Savard
|
| | |
Date: 12 Jun 2008 09:03:23
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
"Quadibloc" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:601b0686-4353-4a70-a5bd-8bfe87c54416@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 11, 5:25 am, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The current Chess Life of 80 pages, if converted to PDF Format, would
>> be a 86 megabyte download.
1) Are people really discussing printing 80 downloaded pages with color
images on their home printers? :))
2) What is the current hit-rate for CL On-line in terms of (a) unique visits
per week, and (b) number of pages viewed per visit?
Phil Innes
> Even documents that are converted to PDF format simply by using
> scanned images aren't 86 megabytes for 80 pages. And that is a very
> inefficient method of conversion; presumably, Chess Life is typeset by
> phototypesetting, not by hand setting of type or by an old-fashioned
> Linotype or Monotype machine, so the text of its articles exists in
> machine-readable form.
>
> So I really don't think that *this* is the major issue here.
>
> John Savard
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 05:55:00
From: SBD
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
I just accessed the 48 page June 2008 edition of the Schweizerische
Schachzeitung (freely available online) and it was 1.9 Meg in size. My
computer is 10 years old and had no problem with it....
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 05:04:52
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 6:57 am, SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jun 11, 6:25 am, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > How would the Online Chess Life work?
>
> > Bill Goichberg continues aggressively to push his =93New Plan=94 to turn=
> > Chess Life into an online publication, but he has failed to explain
> > how this would work.
>
> > The current Chess Life of 80 pages, if converted to PDF Format, would
> > be a 86 megabyte download.
>
> I access a lot of pdfs at various chess sites. For most magazines, it
> seems that about 3-4 megabytes is about right, and can't such things
> be easily compressed these days?
>
> I've downloaded an entire year's worth of several magazines at less
> than 86, probably half that.
>
> Sam you really need to think before you type. The reason why Goichberg
> is for this is because he travels from race track to race track,
> "never putting down roots"? What a specious argument... you could just
> as well say his travels around the country have made him more aware of
> member issues....
>
> I know of several countries that post the pdfs of their nation's chess
> magazines on-line... have you made a comparison with those? Didn't
> think so.
It's not just chess. The League of American Bicyclists and the
Adventure Cycling Association also make their magazines available for
download. A number of commercial bike magazines, such as Dirt Rag and
Mountain Bike Action, also have 'electronic editions.' The practice is
spreading.
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2008 04:57:36
From: SBD
Subject: Re: How would the Online Chess Life work?
|
On Jun 11, 6:25 am, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> How would the Online Chess Life work?
>
> Bill Goichberg continues aggressively to push his =93New Plan=94 to turn
> Chess Life into an online publication, but he has failed to explain
> how this would work.
>
> The current Chess Life of 80 pages, if converted to PDF Format, would
> be a 86 megabyte download.
I access a lot of pdfs at various chess sites. For most magazines, it
seems that about 3-4 megabytes is about right, and can't such things
be easily compressed these days?
I've downloaded an entire year's worth of several magazines at less
than 86, probably half that.
Sam you really need to think before you type. The reason why Goichberg
is for this is because he travels from race track to race track,
"never putting down roots"? What a specious argument... you could just
as well say his travels around the country have made him more aware of
member issues....
I know of several countries that post the pdfs of their nation's chess
magazines on-line... have you made a comparison with those? Didn't
think so.
|
|
