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Date: 26 Mar 2008 13:57:42
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Has there even been a chess game that has been played twice ?
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Has there ever been a chess game that has had the exact same
moves ever been recorded ?
Understand that question ?
Lets say two players play a 47 move game or 50 move or 36 move game ,
has that game ever been played by two other people ?
In all the recorded games that you have in a computer data basse has
there ever been two games with the same moves for the whole game?
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Date: 27 Mar 2008 06:49:19
From:
Subject: Re: Has there even been a chess game that has been played twice ?
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On 26, 4:57=A0pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> =A0 =A0Has there ever been a chess game that has =A0 =A0 =A0had the exact =
same
> moves ever been recorded ?
>
> =A0 Understand that question ?
>
> Lets say two players play a 47 move game or 50 move or 36 move game ,
> has that game ever been played by two other people ?
>
> In all the recorded games that you have in a computer data basse has
> there ever been two games with the same moves for the whole game?
Many instances of duplicate games are known, and many other unknown
duplicates have surely occurred. One known instance is described here:
http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/index.html#5465._Early_uses_of_world_ch=
ess
Scan down to CN #5466, which describes a 1939 game duplicating one
from 1860. I have read of others, but unfortunately can't recall
specifics offhand.
The example Winter gives is a 17-move game. Naturally, the chance of
duplication lessens with the length of the game. Duplicates of 50
moves would be highly improbable.
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Date: 27 Mar 2008 07:18:47
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Has there even been a chess game that has been played twice ?
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Thanks for that info , 48 games and 4 games of the same game and they
were short games.
Just think of all the millions of games played that is why i do not
thin chess will ever be solved..
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Date: 27 Mar 2008 12:03:32
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Has there even been a chess game that has been played twice ?
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SAT W-7 <[email protected] > wrote:
> Has there ever been a chess game that has had the exact same moves
> ever been recorded ?
Yes, plenty of them. All the ones I'm aware of have been `grandmaster
draws' of under twenty moves. A while ago (probably a few years,
now), I posted some examples from Karpov's play in the Ruy Lopez but I
can't find them with Google and I don't have my copy of Fritz to hand.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Gigantic Expensive Watch (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a precision chronometer but it'll
break the bank and it's huge!
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Date: 28 Mar 2008 10:30:52
From: David Kane
Subject: Re: Has there even been a chess game that has been played twice ?
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"David Richerby" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:Wkz*[email protected]...
> SAT W-7 <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Has there ever been a chess game that has had the exact same moves
>> ever been recorded ?
>
> Yes, plenty of them. All the ones I'm aware of have been `grandmaster
> draws' of under twenty moves. A while ago (probably a few years,
> now), I posted some examples from Karpov's play in the Ruy Lopez but I
> can't find them with Google and I don't have my copy of Fritz to hand.
>
At the scholastic level, there are many duplicate decisive games.
I've only been involved in scholastics a short time and have seen
1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 d6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Qxf7++ twice. I'd guess that
the short games with mates on f7 or f2 have occurred hundreds
and hundreds of times.
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Date: 27 Mar 2008 13:14:57
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Has there even been a chess game that has been played twice ?
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David Richerby <[email protected] > wrote:
> A while ago (probably a few years, now), I posted some examples from
> Karpov's play in the Ruy Lopez but I can't find them with Google and
> I don't have my copy of Fritz to hand.
The line I was thinking of is the one that has subsequently been
mentioned in
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.misc/msg/ae4a16e59865e941
Dave.
--
David Richerby Slimy Chair (TM): it's like a chair
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ but it's covered in goo!
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Date: 26 Mar 2008 18:30:58
From:
Subject: Re: Has there even been a chess game that has been played twice ?
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On 26, 4:57=A0pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> =A0 =A0Has there ever been a chess game that has =A0 =A0 =A0had the exact =
same
> moves ever been recorded ?
I've done Fool's Mate on different people. So as long as people think
along similar lines, it is possible, although improbable as the game
progresses, and the evidence would be almost negligable when you have
to prove it by record. I do believe that more repetitive games can be
found playing computer programs that evaluate the move with no attempt
of randomization.
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Date: 26 Mar 2008 19:33:49
From:
Subject: Re: Has there even been a chess game that has been played twice ?
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On 26, 9:57=A0pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> I just re-read your post and i understand what your saying =A0, there mite=
> be a better chance of the same game played when computers play each
> other..
Yeah, novices may depend on certain openings, so the games they play
against each other will show many similarities, but you gotta think
that the loser will pick a certain point and say, not gonna go there
again.
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Date: 27 Mar 2008 05:06:48
From:
Subject: Re: Has there even been a chess game that has been played twice ?
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On 27, 2:53=A0am, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> =A0 You would think there have been but i have no idea how to look that
> up..
Each game is classified by opening-- start with that.
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Date: 27 Mar 2008 12:05:33
From: wtfai
Subject: Re: Has there even been a chess game that has been played twice ?
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On Wed, 26 2008 23:53:35 -0700, SAT W-7 wrote:
> Yes but still that does not answer the question , if there are millions
> of recorded games , have two games ever been played the same ?
> You would think there have been but i have no idea how to look that
> up..
There certainly are games that are the same. In my database there are 48
cases of this game 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1
b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.c3 O-O 9.h3 Re8 10.Ng5 Rf8 11.Nf3 Re8 12.Ng5 1/2-1/2 and
I'm sure there would be other cases of drawing lines.
There are also games where one player has fallen into an opening trap and
then resigned, such as 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 d4 4.e3 Bb4+ 5.Bd2 dxe3
6.Bxb4 exf2+ 7.Ke2 fxg1=N+ 8.Rxg1 Bg4+ 0-1 which has appeared 4 times in
my database.
Longer games, especially ones that go some distance from the opening
would be much less likely to be duplicated, but I do remember hearing of
cases when it has happened.
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Date: 26 Mar 2008 23:53:35
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Has there even been a chess game that has been played twice ?
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Yes but still that does not answer the question , if there are millions
of recorded games , have two games ever been played the same ?
You would think there have been but i have no idea how to look that
up..
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Date: 26 Mar 2008 18:57:05
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Has there even been a chess game that has been played twice ?
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I just re-read your post and i understand what your saying , there mite
be a better chance of the same game played when computers play each
other..
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Date: 26 Mar 2008 18:52:35
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Has there even been a chess game that has been played twice ?
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I am talking about two humans , i just said the computer data base
because they hold a million recorded games i think ?
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