GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

Main

Date: 22 Feb 2008 23:11:22
From: Sanny
Subject: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

Normally Rybka ends the game in Middle game (25-30 moves). But today
Beginner Level was able to play till end Game. It took Rybka 51 Moves
to win GetClub Beginner Level.

Today an improvement was done So Rybka (Hard Level) was unable to Mate
in 25-30 Moves as it used to earlier.

How many players / Programs has beaten Rybka. I think with the
improvement Normal Level may some day win Rybka.

Here is the game with Beginner Level

Game Played between Rybka and beginner at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka : (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16978&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(Rybka ) -- (beginner)

1. e2-e4{2} d7-d6{0}
2. g2-g3{12} Ng8-f6{8}
3. Nb1-c3{10} Bc8-e6{14}
4. Ng1-f3{26} Nb8-c6{6}
5. Bf1-g2{14} d6-d5{6}
6. e4-d5{22} Nf6-d5{18}
7. Ke1-g1{12} Ra8-b8{6}
8. Rf1-e1{16} Nd5-c3{6}
9. b2-c3{14} g7-g6{14}
10. d2-d4{22} Bf8-g7{6}
11. Nf3-g5{24} Be6-d5{8}
12. Bc1-f4{16} Bd5-g2{6}
13. Kg1-g2{20} h7-h6{8}
14. Ng5-e4{18} g6-g5{8}
15. Bf4-e3{14} Qd8-d5{6}
16. Qd1-f3{22} e7-e6{6}
17. Be3-g5{20} Ke8-f8{6}
18. Bg5-f4{72} Rb8-c8{6}
19. Ra1-d1{32} Rh8-g8{6}
20. Rd1-b1{18} b7-b6{6}
21. a2-a4{26} f7-f5{8}
22. Rb1-b5{28} Qd5-d7{6}
23. d4-d5{24} e6-d5{10}
24. Ne4-g5{20} h6-g5{6}
25. Rb5-d5{20} Qd7-f7{6}
26. Rd5-f5{22} Bg7-f6{6}
27. Qf3-c6{22} Rg8-g6{8}
28. Bf4-g5{14} Rc8-e8{6}
29. Re1-e8{18} Qf7-e8{8}
30. Rf5-f6{26} Rg6-f6{6}
31. Qc6-f6{14} Kf8-g8{8}
32. Qf6-d8{18} Qe8-d8{6}
33. Bg5-d8{14} c7-c5{10}
34. Bd8-b6{16} a7-b6{8}
35. Kg2-f3{20} Kg8-f8{6}
36. Kf3-e4{16} Kf8-e8{6}
37. Ke4-d5{14} Ke8-d8{6}
38. Kd5-c6{16} Kd8-e8{8}
39. Kc6-b6{18} c5-c4{54}
40. h2-h4{14} Ke8-d8{6}
41. a4-a5{18} Kd8-d7{6}
42. a5-a6{34} Kd7-e6{6}
43. h4-h5{16} Ke6-f6{6}
44. h5-h6{14} Kf6-g6{6}
45. h6-h7{12} Kg6-h7{6}
46. Kb6-c5{14} Kh7-g8{6}
47. g3-g4{14} Kg8-h7{14}
48. a6-a7{16} Kh7-g6{8}
49. f2-f4{18} Kg6-f7{6}
50. Kc5-d6{16} Kf7-g6{14}
51. Kd6-e6{22} Kg6-h5{6}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka : (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16978&game=Chess

So you can see GetClub Struggled till End Game. And for the first time
Stopped Rybka from winning till 51 Moves.

I found Rybka's end game is as poor as GetClub End Game.

Instead of getting Queen and doing Check Mate it played its King and
Pawns aimlessly. Beginner level was able to killl its pawns for no
reasions.

Play a game fast and tell me if you see the GetClub Program improved?

What is the Rating of Rybka?

Some say its Rating is 3000.

So Since Beginner Level was able to defend till 51 Moves I think I
need to increase Rating of each Level.

Here is the new Rating to each level.

Beginner: 2100 [5-10 sec/move]
Easy: 2200 [20-40 sec/move]
Normal: 2300 [1-2 min / move]
Master: 2400 [5-10 min / move]

I increased rating of each level by +100, As it played very well
against Rybka.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 26 Feb 2008 11:04:48
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

> However below things may be improved Like
>
> 1. End Game
> 2. Think on Opponents Time
> 3. Use Dual/Core Quad Core power

To which I would add

4. Play by the rules of chess.

Date: 26 Feb 2008 09:31:31
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

Further improvements of GetClub Chess is not possible as whenver the
program is changed it beings more bugs and play slower but never
faster. Looks like the wall has come where the program cannot be
further improved.

However below things may be improved Like

1. End Game
2. Think on Opponents Time
3. Use Dual/Core Quad Core power

Only thing that can increase its speed is to convert it into
downloadable version. Then may be it will be much faster.

I saw your game against easy levels. I find you take 60-70 moves to
win Easy Level. I think now Normal will play as good as you play and
Master Level will win against you. What do you think can you beat the
higher level or not?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 26 Feb 2008 08:41:21
From:
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

On Feb 26, 10:07=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:

> Crafty uses power of all processors in quad core and dual core.
> further it thinks in opponents move also these make it much better
> than getclub chess. Further Applet is generally slower than C /
> Assembly language program.
>
> However that rating was wrong as that was based on single game against
> Rybka.
>
> I find Normally Beginner Level plays till 30 moves against Rybka.
> Easy Level plays till 35 moves against Rybka.
> and Normal Level plays till 40 moves against Rybka.
>
> So I think
> Beginner: 1800 (5-10 sec/move)
> Easy: 1900 (20-40 sec/move)
> Normal: 2000 (1-2 min/move)
> Master: 2100 (5-10 min/move)
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Still grossly optomistic to say the least.
First off the PC I use for internet surfing and gaming
is an old 1 GHz AMD Athalon with 512 MB of RAM
So the comments about Quad and Dual Core
processors do not apply. As for Crafty thinking on
a human's time - humans do the exact same thing
and I fail to understand why your program does not
do the same! Finally any inefficiencies in your
program due to the development platform chosen
are beyond my ability to assist you with.

There is no way Beginner and Easy are 1800/1900
in strength, I stick by my 1200-1400 estimates.
As for Normal/Master, my time is too valuable to
toss it away on such an unrewarding endeavor.

Date: 26 Feb 2008 08:25:43
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

On Feb 24, 10:16 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected] >
wrote:

> > Here we go again. You two seem to place
> > your own /convenience/ ahead of such things
> > as getting meaningful results. Try playing
> > the two programs against one another on
> > two separate machines, so there is **no
> > possibility** of what is discussed above.
>
> In fact, I place a high value on my convenience as I am not paid to
> evaluate GitClub, and anything I do is likely to be rough and ready.
> But despite your clever comments, a little thought shows that doing a
> true scientific evaluation in a home environment is extremely
> difficult. To really do things correctly, a laboratory environment,
> with a pair of identically configured machines, would be necessary.
> Additional knowledge about the workings of the two programs being
> competed would also be required --- answering the question, for
> instance, of whether one machine thinks on the other machine's time
> has nothing to do with whether the contest takes place on one physical
> box or two, though the effect on the results will definitely differ.
> Often, from the available user options and the available
> documentation, it is not at all clear what is going on, and detailed
> monitoring could be required to determine the answers.
>
> My goal has been simply to provide anecdotal information, not
> scientific test results for which my home environment is not well
> suited. Enough anecdotal information, however, may at least give some
> idea of the strength of GitClub. This is the difference between
> scientific method, which requires controlled conditions and sufficient
> data, and intelligence analysis, which recognizes that complete
> information can't be gathered and draws conclusions --- at times
> erroneous to be sure --- from what is available and what actually
> *can* be gathered.
>
> But constantly running into bugs has soured my enthusiasm. While I
> have been able to finish some games with GC, spending an hour of
> precious spare time only to find yet another frustrating bug is not
> what I wish to do any longer. However, if you are indeed willing, and
> are equipped for laboratory grade testing, and you will do it merely
> for a supply of Twinkies and Ding Dongs, I am sure something can be
> worked out.

Whenever a situation arises where, say, two
machines are unequal in speed, I would just
give Sanny's program the faster machine, as
it needs all the help it can get. ; >D

From Sanny's commentary it is unclear
which version of Rybka he uses, how many
times he went to get a drink of water vs.
Rybka "thinking" during the times he reports,
and so forth; in sum, for all we know he may
be giving Rybka beta 0.001 only one second
per move to think, and this could explain his
funky results.

I think someone else could do better---
MUCH better than this. Yes, there are big
problems, like the fact that he keeps on
modifying the program at random, weaker
and then stronger, back and forth like a
pendulum. With a "normal" tester, we
might at least be able to discern the
version of Rybka being tested, and maybe
the technical problems would tend to
balance out, and not all be reported as
GetClub "winning" because the opponent
"resigned".

Maybe my hopes are set to high; maybe
Sanny's style of reporting is up to the
standards which are acceptable to the
average Joe; maybe. But I don't think so!

Personally, I find lots of blunders when
going over such games with Fritz 5.32-- a
very outdated program which is far weaker
than Rybka. So it makes sense to give
the GetClub program a sizable handicap,
and see what (the real) Rybka can do.

Maybe I will do this myself-- eventually.
I have downloaded free versions of such
programs as "Rebel" and "Shredder", and
it might prove interesting if I can guess
the proper handicaps somehow. I have
the hardware... strewn about everywhere.

Seriously, I don't see how anyone can
play two engines on the same machine
and not realize there is a good chance
that this is mucking up the testing
process; if we wanted to muck it up, we
could just send Sanny the Twinkies-- he
is like Ace Ventura-- the best there is at
mucking up! Everybody will be "resigned"
and GetClub will win every test; the
Russians did not fix world chess; Sanny
did!

-- help bot

Date: 26 Feb 2008 08:07:51
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

> I occasionally play a bit against Crafty 5.0 scoring about
> 25% against it in 5 and 15 minute games. This program
> is vastly stronger then yours but would equally be
> crushed by Rybka. Frankly I am confident that the very
> first computerchessprogram I had, Chessmaster,
> would also crush your program.

Crafty uses power of all processors in quad core and dual core.
further it thinks in opponents move also these make it much better
than getclub chess. Further Applet is generally slower than C /
Assembly language program.

However that rating was wrong as that was based on single game against
Rybka.

I find Normally Beginner Level plays till 30 moves against Rybka.
Easy Level plays till 35 moves against Rybka.
and Normal Level plays till 40 moves against Rybka.

So I think
Beginner: 1800 (5-10 sec/move)
Easy: 1900 (20-40 sec/move)
Normal: 2000 (1-2 min/move)
Master: 2100 (5-10 min/move)

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 26 Feb 2008 07:10:23
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

> It is GETCLUB and NOT GITCLUB
>
> Bye
> Sanny

Actually, I was attempting a transcontinental play on words, using
both British and American expressions, as in:

"GitClub -- where the gits git together to play chess."

Date: 26 Feb 2008 06:41:26
From:
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

On Feb 23, 1:11=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:

> Beginner: 2100 [5-10 sec/move]
> Easy: 2200 [20-40 sec/move]
> Normal: 2300 [1-2 min / move]
> Master: 2400 [5-10 min / move]

You are incredibly deluded with regard to the strength
of your program to say the least. While it has reasonable
enough tactical strength, perhaps 1600/1700/1800/2000,
this is paired with a strategic strength (ie evaluation
function) and engame ability that compares unfavorably
to that of a <1000 scholastic player. Overall it seems to
be 1200 - 1600 in strength, if that. With a reasonably
deep opening book it would probably be 1600+ in strength
and be able to beat most players simply by never reaching
an ending where it is incredibly weak.

The program also has a very poor interface and incredibly
anoying background sounds. I cannot believe that these
haven't been corrected long ago.

On another note, the length of the games it plays have a
very low correlation to it's actual strength. Given that your
program doesn't resign in postions that are hopelessly
lost the games are extended to an urealistic length.

I occasionally play a bit against Crafty 5.0 scoring about
25% against it in 5 and 15 minute games. This program
is vastly stronger then yours but would equally be
crushed by Rybka. Frankly I am confident that the very
first computer chess program I had, Chessmaster,
would also crush your program.

None of this is meant to disuade you from your efforts.
A powerful program that doesn't use stored openings
and engame table bases would be quite interesting.
Unfortunately your deluded statements here with
regard to the playing strength of your program at this
time make you seem like a complete idiot.

Date: 24 Feb 2008 07:39:45
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

On Feb 24, 8:16=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected] > wrote:
> > =A0 Here we go again. =A0You two seem to place
> > your own /convenience/ ahead of such things
> > as getting meaningful results. =A0Try playing
> > the two programs against one another on
> > two separate machines, so there is **no
> > possibility** of what is discussed above.
>
> In fact, I place a high value on my convenience as I am not paid to
> evaluate GitClub, and anything I do is likely to be rough and ready.
> But despite your clever comments, a little thought shows that doing a
> true scientific evaluation in a home environment is extremely
> difficult. =A0To really do things correctly, a laboratory environment,
> with a pair of identically configured machines, would be necessary.
> Additional knowledge about the workings of the two programs being
> competed would also be required --- answering the question, for
> instance, of whether one machine thinks on the other machine's time
> has nothing to do with whether the contest takes place on one physical
> box or two, though the effect on the results will definitely differ.
> Often, from the available user options and the available
> documentation, it is not at all clear what is going on, and detailed
> monitoring could be required to determine the answers.
>
> My goal has been simply to provide anecdotal information, not
> scientific test results for which my home environment is not well
> suited. =A0Enough anecdotal information, however, may at least give some
> idea of the strength of GitClub. =A0This is the difference between
> scientific method, which requires controlled conditions and sufficient
> data, and intelligence analysis, which recognizes that complete
> information can't be gathered and draws conclusions --- at times
> erroneous to be sure --- from what is available and what actually
> *can* be gathered.
>
> But constantly running into bugs has soured my enthusiasm. =A0While I
> have been able to finish some games with GC, spending an hour of
> precious spare time only to find yet another frustrating bug is not
> what I wish to do any longer. =A0However, if you are indeed willing, and
> are equipped for laboratory grade testing, and you will do it merely
> for a supply of Twinkies and Ding Dongs, I am sure something can be
> worked out.

It is GETCLUB and NOT GITCLUB

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 24 Feb 2008 07:16:59
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

> Here we go again. You two seem to place
> your own /convenience/ ahead of such things
> as getting meaningful results. Try playing
> the two programs against one another on
> two separate machines, so there is **no
> possibility** of what is discussed above.

In fact, I place a high value on my convenience as I am not paid to
evaluate GitClub, and anything I do is likely to be rough and ready.
But despite your clever comments, a little thought shows that doing a
true scientific evaluation in a home environment is extremely
difficult. To really do things correctly, a laboratory environment,
with a pair of identically configured machines, would be necessary.
Additional knowledge about the workings of the two programs being
competed would also be required --- answering the question, for
instance, of whether one machine thinks on the other machine's time
has nothing to do with whether the contest takes place on one physical
box or two, though the effect on the results will definitely differ.
Often, from the available user options and the available
documentation, it is not at all clear what is going on, and detailed
monitoring could be required to determine the answers.

My goal has been simply to provide anecdotal information, not
scientific test results for which my home environment is not well
suited. Enough anecdotal information, however, may at least give some
idea of the strength of GitClub. This is the difference between
scientific method, which requires controlled conditions and sufficient
data, and intelligence analysis, which recognizes that complete
information can't be gathered and draws conclusions --- at times
erroneous to be sure --- from what is available and what actually
*can* be gathered.

But constantly running into bugs has soured my enthusiasm. While I
have been able to finish some games with GC, spending an hour of
precious spare time only to find yet another frustrating bug is not
what I wish to do any longer. However, if you are indeed willing, and
are equipped for laboratory grade testing, and you will do it merely
for a supply of Twinkies and Ding Dongs, I am sure something can be
worked out.

Date: 24 Feb 2008 00:06:36
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

On Feb 24, 1:01=A0pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Feb 24, 12:34 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > I played another game-- a Benoni. Everything
> > > seemed "normal" again; I sort of won a pawn
> > > (don't count 'em; just look at how my pawn is
> > > usable while its is superfluous) but ran into
> > > some trouble with regard to my King's safety.
> > > The program choked its opportunities, and
> > > next thing I know I am mopping up a won
> > > endgame, as usual. =A0I would say it put up a
>
> > Thats what I am looking for. Please show me the recorded game where
> > this happened along with the Move number and which moves are wrong and
> > what was the correct move at that time. If I know a mistake then only
> > I can ask to improve it.
>
> =A0 Okay, I said it was a "Benoni"; that is the recent
> game whereGetClubhad White, and the opening
> moves went:
>
> =A01. d4 =A0c5
>
> =A02. d5 =A0e5
>
> =A0 =A0That is the Benoni defense.
>
> > Whenever you find a wrong move Just tell me the move number along with
> > recorded game link. As Below,
>
> =A0 In this game, I left my King exposed to
> attacks which involve the sacrifice of material;
> I do not think the program was looking deeply
> enough to spot my mistake, but it could have
> "lucked into it" if only it had found the first
> move: B-h6. =A0Immediately afterward, I moved
> my King's Rook from f8 to b8, addressing the
> problem. =A0Then the program allowed me to
> pin its Queen with ...R-b1; right after that it
> moved K-e2, which allowed ...Qxc2+; it put
> up very little defense and I won easily.
>
> =A0 The dumbest error was obviously K-e2, letting
> me capture a pawn with check. =A0That qualifies
> as what former world champ Boris Spassky
> termed a "one-move blunder". =A0But letting me
> pin the Queen with my Rook was also a big
> mistake, a game-losing error.
>

There was a big bug which was removed today, To play a new game
without that bug you need to restart your computer so that latest
version of the Game is loaded into your computer and you play against
the strong version.

Here is a new game where Easy Level was able to fight till 51 moves
against Rybka.

Game Played between sanjay11 and easy at GetClub.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=AD-----
sanjay11: (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM17095&game=3D=
Chess
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=AD-----

White -- Black
(sanjay11) -- (easy)

1. e2-e4{4} e7-e6{0}
2. d2-d4{14} d7-d5{0}
3. Nb1-c3{16} d5-e4{0}
4. Nc3-e4{14} Bc8-d7{0}
5. Ng1-f3{12} f7-f5{42}
6. Ne4-g3{16} Nb8-c6{38}
7. Bf1-c4{16} Nc6-a5{36}
8. Bc4-d3{16} Bf8-b4{20}
9. c2-c3{14} Bb4-d6{22}
10. Qd1-e2{12} g7-g6{28}
11. d4-d5{16} Qd8-e7{26}
12. b2-b4{16} e6-d5{34}
13. b4-a5{12} f5-f4{34}
14. Qe2-e7{16} Ng8-e7{36}
15. Ng3-e2{12} Ke8-g8{30}
16. Ne2-d4{16} c7-c5{28}
17. Bc1-a3{14} Rf8-f6{32}
18. Nd4-b5{14} Rf6-e6{36}
19. Ke1-d2{42} Bd7-b5{20}
20. Bd3-b5{22} a7-a6{30}
21. Bb5-d7{12} Re6-e4{30}
22. Nf3-g5{12} Re4-e5{20}
23. Ng5-e6{28} Kg8-h8{32}
24. Ra1-e1{14} Ne7-f5{30}
25. Re1-e5{16} Bd6-e5{26}
26. Ba3-c5{20} f4-f3{32}
27. g2-f3{14} Nf5-d6{32}
28. Kd2-c2{14} Nd6-c4{20}
29. Rh1-d1{50} Be5-h2{20}
30. f3-f4{16} Nc4-a5{24}
31. Rd1-h1{26} Na5-c6{34}
32. Rh1-h2{18} Kh8-g8{38}
33. Rh2-h6{14} Nc6-b8{26}
34. Bd7-c8{14} b7-b6{20}
35. Ne6-c7{18} b6-c5{28}
36. Nc7-a8{14} d5-d4{22}
37. Na8-c7{16} Nb8-c6{42}
38. Bc8-a6{16} Nc6-e7{32}
39. Ba6-c4{20} Kg8-h8{32}
40. Rh6-h1{22} h7-h5{20}
41. Nc7-e6{16} Kh8-h7{20}
42. c3-d4{12} c5-d4{26}
43. Ne6-d4{12} Kh7-g7{26}
44. a2-a4{16} Ne7-c8{20}
45. a4-a5{12} Nc8-d6{22}
46. Kc2-d3{12} Nd6-c4{24}
47. Kd3-c4{10} Kg7-h7{34}
48. a5-a6{14} Kh7-g8{34}
49. a6-a7{16} g6-g5{72}
50. Qa7-a8{Q}{12} Kg8-h7{24}
51. Rh1-h5{18} Kh7-g6{34}
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=AD-----
sanjay11: (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM17095&game=3D=
Chess

Whenever a bug is removced one should restart the computer so that
older version of the Applet do not run.

Now Since Easy Level gave a good fight to Rybka I will try a game with
Normal Level against Rybka. I think Normal level will play as good as
Rybka and may win 1/5 Games against Rybka.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 24 Feb 2008 00:01:09
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

On Feb 24, 12:34 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:

> > I played another game-- a Benoni. Everything
> > seemed "normal" again; I sort of won a pawn
> > (don't count 'em; just look at how my pawn is
> > usable while its is superfluous) but ran into
> > some trouble with regard to my King's safety.
> > The program choked its opportunities, and
> > next thing I know I am mopping up a won
> > endgame, as usual. I would say it put up a
>
> Thats what I am looking for. Please show me the recorded game where
> this happened along with the Move number and which moves are wrong and
> what was the correct move at that time. If I know a mistake then only
> I can ask to improve it.

Okay, I said it was a "Benoni"; that is the recent
game where GetClub had White, and the opening
moves went:

1. d4 c5

2. d5 e5

That is the Benoni defense.

> Whenever you find a wrong move Just tell me the move number along with
> recorded game link. As Below,

In this game, I left my King exposed to
attacks which involve the sacrifice of material;
I do not think the program was looking deeply
enough to spot my mistake, but it could have
"lucked into it" if only it had found the first
move: B-h6. Immediately afterward, I moved
my King's Rook from f8 to b8, addressing the
problem. Then the program allowed me to
pin its Queen with ...R-b1; right after that it
moved K-e2, which allowed ...Qxc2+; it put
up very little defense and I won easily.

The dumbest error was obviously K-e2, letting
me capture a pawn with check. That qualifies
as what former world champ Boris Spassky
termed a "one-move blunder". But letting me
pin the Queen with my Rook was also a big
mistake, a game-losing error.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Tonight I played another game in which the
program sacrificed a Knight for a single pawn;
there was nothing-- just retreat the attacked
piece or lose the game; GetClub decided to
lose the game; it obviously does not like to
retreat and live to fight another day... .

-- help bot

Date: 24 Feb 2008 00:00:33
From: Sanny
Subject: Game with Easy Level till 51 Moves.

After the Bug was removed I played a game against Easy Level and it
played Very well and managed to escape Mate till 51 Moves.

Despite the fact it lost its knight in the beginning Easy level was
able to give good fight to Rybka.

Game Played between sanjay11 and easy at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM17095&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(sanjay11) -- (easy)

1. e2-e4{4} e7-e6{0}
2. d2-d4{14} d7-d5{0}
3. Nb1-c3{16} d5-e4{0}
4. Nc3-e4{14} Bc8-d7{0}
5. Ng1-f3{12} f7-f5{42}
6. Ne4-g3{16} Nb8-c6{38}
7. Bf1-c4{16} Nc6-a5{36}
8. Bc4-d3{16} Bf8-b4{20}
9. c2-c3{14} Bb4-d6{22}
10. Qd1-e2{12} g7-g6{28}
11. d4-d5{16} Qd8-e7{26}
12. b2-b4{16} e6-d5{34}
13. b4-a5{12} f5-f4{34}
14. Qe2-e7{16} Ng8-e7{36}
15. Ng3-e2{12} Ke8-g8{30}
16. Ne2-d4{16} c7-c5{28}
17. Bc1-a3{14} Rf8-f6{32}
18. Nd4-b5{14} Rf6-e6{36}
19. Ke1-d2{42} Bd7-b5{20}
20. Bd3-b5{22} a7-a6{30}
21. Bb5-d7{12} Re6-e4{30}
22. Nf3-g5{12} Re4-e5{20}
23. Ng5-e6{28} Kg8-h8{32}
24. Ra1-e1{14} Ne7-f5{30}
25. Re1-e5{16} Bd6-e5{26}
26. Ba3-c5{20} f4-f3{32}
27. g2-f3{14} Nf5-d6{32}
28. Kd2-c2{14} Nd6-c4{20}
29. Rh1-d1{50} Be5-h2{20}
30. f3-f4{16} Nc4-a5{24}
31. Rd1-h1{26} Na5-c6{34}
32. Rh1-h2{18} Kh8-g8{38}
33. Rh2-h6{14} Nc6-b8{26}
34. Bd7-c8{14} b7-b6{20}
35. Ne6-c7{18} b6-c5{28}
36. Nc7-a8{14} d5-d4{22}
37. Na8-c7{16} Nb8-c6{42}
38. Bc8-a6{16} Nc6-e7{32}
39. Ba6-c4{20} Kg8-h8{32}
40. Rh6-h1{22} h7-h5{20}
41. Nc7-e6{16} Kh8-h7{20}
42. c3-d4{12} c5-d4{26}
43. Ne6-d4{12} Kh7-g7{26}
44. a2-a4{16} Ne7-c8{20}
45. a4-a5{12} Nc8-d6{22}
46. Kc2-d3{12} Nd6-c4{24}
47. Kd3-c4{10} Kg7-h7{34}
48. a5-a6{14} Kh7-g8{34}
49. a6-a7{16} g6-g5{72}
50. Qa7-a8{Q}{12} Kg8-h7{24}
51. Rh1-h5{18} Kh7-g6{34}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM17095&game=Chess

I saw Help Bot played 2 games after the Bug was removed But he do not
restart his computer So the Buggy applet was not replaced by newer
version. So the lost a game because of that Bug.

Whenever a bug is removced one should restart the computer so that
older version of the Applet do not run.

Now Since Easy Level gave a good fight to Rybka I will try a game with
Normal Level against Rybka. I think Normal level will play as good as
Rybka and may win 1/5 Games against Rybka.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 23 Feb 2008 23:09:29
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: A Big Bug Found.

Here is a game with Beginner Level. Beginner Level Surviuved till 30
Moves after the Bug removed Earlier it lost in just 24 Moves.

Game Played between sanjay11 and beginner at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM17077&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(sanjay11) -- (beginner)

1. e2-e4{4} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{28} Nb8-c6{0}
3. Bf1-b5{12} a7-a6{0}
4. Bb5-a4{10} Ng8-f6{0}
5. Ke1-g1{20} b7-b5{8}
6. Ba4-b3{14} Bc8-b7{8}
7. a2-a4{10} Nf6-e4{6}
8. Rf1-e1{14} Nc6-d4{10}
9. Nf3-d4{14} e5-d4{16}
10. Qd1-f3{44} f7-f5{10}
11. Qf3-f5{18} Qd8-e7{8}
12. d2-d3{12} g7-g6{8}
13. Qf5-g4{14} d7-d5{8}
14. d3-e4{12} d5-e4{6}
15. a4-b5{18} a6-a5{10}
16. Nb1-d2{22} Qe7-b4{10}
17. Re1-e4{12} Bf8-e7{6}
18. Re4-d4{12} Qb4-c5{10}
19. Qg4-d7{16} Ke8-f8{12}
20. Rd4-f4{16} Qc5-f5{6}
21. Rf4-f5{36} g6-f5{6}
22. Qd7-c7{22} h7-h5{6}
23. Qc7-b7{64} Ra8-d8{10}
24. b5-b6{12} h5-h4{10}
25. Ra1-a5{12} Rh8-h5{8}
26. Ra5-a8{16} Rd8-a8{6}
27. Qb7-a8{10} Be7-d8{6}
28. b6-b7{26} Kf8-g7{8}
29. Qb7-b8{Q}{12} Rh5-h8{6}
30. Qb8-e5{20} Bd8-f6{8}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM17077&game=Chess

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 23 Feb 2008 22:47:36
From: Sanny
Subject: A Big Bug Found.

Toaday a Big Bug was Found which was causing it not to see all the
moves. If say in Chipchap move QxR It just do not see KxQ????

So it was a big bug. For every move it made it was not seeing all
moves and leaving a few moves just like a blind cannot see things.

Now that Bug has been removed and it will not play such game. Since
the game was improved a lot of things were changed And even if a small
code is wrongly written it plays horrible game.

I will play more games against Rybka to see if there is any more bug
left out.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 23 Feb 2008 21:44:43
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: A new game with Rybka (Wins in 24 Moves only)

On Feb 23, 11:52=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected] >
wrote:
> > Here Rybka again played very stly and won the game.
>
> I don't think Rybka played a brilliant game, but in honesty if you
> look closely you must say that GC played a really terrible game.
> 19.... Qe6 for instance, throwing away the queen; even I know better
> than that. =A0How can you possibly think something this bad rates above
> 2000? =A0You seem to have Rybka, well, do an analysis and find all the
> bad GC moves.

There was no good Move other than 19. ... Qe6.

Why
If you Play any other Move White will play 20 Nxc6 and the Queen is
gone and you are Check Mated.

So to prevent Mate in 2 It played 19 ... Qe6 Can you suggest any other
move where you do not see a Mate in 2.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 23 Feb 2008 21:34:22
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

> I played another game-- a Benoni. Everything
> seemed "normal" again; I sort of won a pawn
> (don't count 'em; just look at how my pawn is
> usable while its is superfluous) but ran into
> some trouble with regard to my King's safety.
> The program choked its opportunities, and
> next thing I know I am mopping up a won
> endgame, as usual. =A0I would say it put up a

Thats what I am looking for. Please show me the recorded game where
this happened along with the Move number and which moves are wrong and
what was the correct move at that time. If I know a mistake then only
I can ask to improve it.

Whenever you find a wrong move Just tell me the move number along with
recorded game link. As Below,

----------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>
EXAMPLE STARTS

int the game Recorded Game Link: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html?link=3Dxy=
z

Like 35: Qe3 is wrong Move.

The reasion it is wrong:
1......
2. ....
3. ....

Correct Move is Qf4, Why: ......

25. Qe3 gives a loss of 2 points.

EXAMPLE ENDS
----------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>

This way I will know why a move is wrong. And once I correct the game
you will not find such weak move again.

Bye
Sanny

Date: 23 Feb 2008 19:50:26
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

On Feb 23, 1:36 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected] > wrote:

> > I think Chess Master took was thinking on GetClubs Move and that may
> > be the reasion of such poor game.
>
> To my knowledge CM was not thinking on GC's time.

Here we go again. You two seem to place
your own /convenience/ ahead of such things
as getting meaningful results. Try playing
the two programs against one another on
two separate machines, so there is **no
possibility** of what is discussed above.

That is what we technical folks call scientific
research; it is the precise opposite of funky
research in which the operators hope, pray,
or just assume that the test has any validity.

The key difference is that in science, you
remove everything related just to the operator
from the equation, focusing on the actual
subjects, the chess programs. If the operators
like Twinkies, you factor that out. And if they
make typos, you factor that out. Once you
remove the operators, and all their weird idio-
synchrocies, what is left yields information
about the chess programs themselves, the
actual subjects of the study.

If you folks are not up to the task, then
forward all your Twinkies to me, along with
any Hostess Ding Dongs you have lying
around, and I will be happy to do the job,
/gratis/.
A few changes: operator time, including
typing, eating and drinking, will no longer
be reported as Rybka's thinking time (duh!).
Rybka's selected level will no longer be
given here as "easy" or "hard", nor will the
version tested be kept a deep, dark secret.
You may notice that both programs can
actually finish a game, now and then, on
account of a *competent* operator taking
over for these two.
Finally, please supply more Twinkies;
bots do not live by bread alone... .

-- helpful bot

Date: 23 Feb 2008 19:29:42
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

On Feb 23, 11:28 am, "J.D. Walker" <[email protected] > wrote:

> It seems very simple to me. If a program can not play by the rules, its
> rating is zero.

Hey, Fritz looks up its opening moves in a
"book" it has stored on my machine-- which
is cheating. And Shredder has a lookup
table where it stores prefabricated answers
to test questions I have to solve on the fly!
It is understood that programmers just aren't
st enough to do the job correctly, so we
let them cheat a bit; Sanny's programmers
aren't st enough to even figure out the
basics, so why not let them cheat even more?

Well, we are not really trying to assign an
official rating anyhow; all we are doing is
trying to estimate the program's *strength*,
when and if it does play legal moves.

-- help bot

Date: 23 Feb 2008 19:23:55
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

On Feb 23, 11:02 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected] >
wrote:

> I tried again to play a game to start to triangulate on a rating for
> GitClub. Here's what happened. I thought I would try ChessMaster 10
> with its rated personalities (who knows how good the ratings are and
> under what conditions they were taken, but what the heck). I used a
> personality with an 1193 rating and set the game for 2/6 Fischer time,
> with CM as black, GC as white; GC at "easy" level (40 seconds per move
> in theory). Here is the game:
>
> White -- Black
> (easy) -- (CM 1193)
>
> 1. d2-d4{34} e7-e5{24}
> 2. d4-e5{28} Bf8-c5{18}
> 3. Nb1-c3{26} Ng8-f6{20}
> 4. Ng1-f3{74} Rh8-g8{14}
> 5. e5-f6{20} Qd8-f6{12}
> 6. Nc3-d5{32} Qf6-d8{14}
> 7. Bc1-f4{32} d7-d6{28}
> 8. Qd1-d3{36} c7-c6{12}
> 9. Qd3-h7{42} Ke8-f8{12}
> 10. Nd5-c3{22} Qd8-e7{18}
> 11. Qh7-g8{20}
>
> I never actually saw GC's 11th move; the board disappeared and GC
> claimed a win when it had in fact just thrown away its queen (I looked
> up the move in GC's move records afterwards). I guess GC thought this
> was checkmate even though the white queen is unprotected.
>
> Now, up to this point I was reasonably impressed. ChessMaster was
> doing its usual stupid thing of throwing away material to lower its
> rating, but GitClub was handily taking advantage of it (though when CM
> threw away a knight GC waited an extra move to pick it up; luckily CM
> left it hanging). Still, under these conditions thus far in the game
> it seemed like GC was on the way to victory.
>
> But with stupid bugs like claiming a checkmate in error, who has the
> patience to try to evaluate GC properly, with a long enough series of
> games under controlled conditions? I was about to do that but I was
> frustrated again.
>
> No doubt Sanny will fix this bug and proclaim the program better than
> ever and ready to trounce Rybka in the future, but I'm about ready to
> give it all up. After so many months the program ought to at least
> play by the rules. And it would be really nice to show the final
> position and not just delete the board and say "game over."

You know, it's funny how people suddenly
"show up" to report their test results when
the GetClub program is freaking out. Most
of the time, the program is playing a decent
game of chess and nobody "reports" on
their latest results, but when the serious
bugs pop up, invariably, several posters will
appear, complaining that this is the worst
chess program they've ever seen!

In my recent games, I have never seen the
program fail to make a one-move capture like
this, and in fact I had one position where the
program made a clever sacrifice, which was
to regain its material by force (I declined)
two moves later! Where it really has trouble
is in the endgame, and in misjudging spite
checks as something of real value. I think
the fact that Sanny keeps making reckless
changes is distorting the reporting here, by
encouraging reports by those who beat the
program like a carrot, while allowing those
who lose to remain silent; look at the Web
site itself and you will see that plenty of
players are losing games, but who are they
and where are their reports? Not here, that's
for sure! Not one player has come here to
"report" that they were outplayed-- ain't that
odd?

As for the program which hangs pieces as
quickly as possible to simulate the strength
of an 1100 player, that is a very poor way to
go about it. Human players tend to overlook
forks and mating attacks, but they don't just
move their pieces where they can be taken
by an enemy pawn-- except in scholastic
chess, way down below 1100. The 4. ...Rg8
move reminds me of little kids, who don't
quite know how all the pieces move yet;
these days, they might have ratings well
below 1000 at that level. And yet each time
its Queen was attacked, the program saved
it-- like someone who could play decent
chess. Who knows-- maybe this bizarre
combination of tactical alertness with regard
to the Queen, and suicidal tendencies with
regard to Knights balances out, resulting in
a net 1100 strength.

After Sanny said he had fixed the bugs
which were letting other people beat GC like
carrots (I was stuck in a won position where
the program refused to move, remember?),
I played another game-- a Benoni. Everything
seemed "normal" again; I sort of won a pawn
(don't count 'em; just look at how my pawn is
usable while its is superfluous) but ran into
some trouble with regard to my King's safety.
The program choked its opportunities, and
next thing I know I am mopping up a won
endgame, as usual. I would say it put up a
decent fight, but that its play was a bit
peculiar; no way is this thing anywhere near
USCF 1100 *strength*, although its style
could be compared to that of such a player.
More like 1700 or so is my guess. I think I
would far rather play a human 1500 player
than this monstrosity in a tournament; this
critter /can be/ dangerous, while the 1500
will not likely "see" anything I would miss.

-- help bot

Date: 23 Feb 2008 10:52:47
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: A new game with Rybka (Wins in 24 Moves only)

> Here Rybka again played very stly and won the game.

I don't think Rybka played a brilliant game, but in honesty if you
look closely you must say that GC played a really terrible game.
19.... Qe6 for instance, throwing away the queen; even I know better
than that. How can you possibly think something this bad rates above
2000? You seem to have Rybka, well, do an analysis and find all the
bad GC moves.

I don't know why you test beginner level, unless it is for the reason
I previously did, that it is not slow like the other levels. But
really play at least from Easy level. Easy seems to play much better
than Beginner.

Date: 23 Feb 2008 10:36:18
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

> Very Strange thing There must be something wrong somewhere.

Well no kidding.

> That game has been restored and Computer played 11. g3 instead of >
> 11. Qh7-g8{20}

That is cheating. GitClub should live with the move it actually made
in the game.

> I think Chess Master took was thinking on GetClubs Move and that may
> be the reasion of such poor game.

To my knowledge CM was not thinking on GC's time. But until the last
move GC was doing just fine and was handily winning.

> You may continue this game with
> 11. g2-g3{--}

Thank you but no. It is more trouble than it is worth. I will wait a
couple of weeks and see if the buggy interface is fixed before I spend
more time on this.

Date: 23 Feb 2008 10:27:10
From: Sanny
Subject: A new game with Rybka (Wins in 24 Moves only)

> Ok I will play a new game with Beginner Level and see if there is any
> improvement or not. As nothing can be said with single game.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Here is another game, Here Rybka won Beginner Level in just 24 Moves.

Game Played between sanjay11 and beginner at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM17032&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(sanjay11) -- (beginner)

1. e2-e4{4} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{58} Nb8-c6{0}
3. Bf1-b5{16} Bf8-c5{0}
4. Nb1-c3{18} Bc5-d4{6}
5. Nc3-d5{16} Bd4-c5{6}
6. b2-b4{18} Nc6-b4{10}
7. Bc1-a3{26} Nb4-d5{6}
8. Ba3-c5{22} Nd5-f6{8}
9. Nf3-e5{18} c7-c6{6}
10. Bb5-c4{22} Ng8-h6{6}
11. Bc5-d6{20} b7-b5{10}
12. Bc4-b3{18} Nf6-e4{10}
13. Qd1-e2{14} Qd8-f6{18}
14. Qe2-e4{28} Ke8-d8{6}
15. Qe4-b4{24} a7-a5{6}
16. Qb4-c5{22} a5-a4{8}
17. Qc5-b6{26} Kd8-e8{14}
18. Ke1-g1{22} a4-b3{6}
19. Rf1-e1{26} Qf6-e6{8}
20. Ne5-c6{28} Bc8-a6{8}
21. a2-b3{48} Ra8-c8{6}
22. Qb6-a6{24} Rc8-d8{8}
23. Nc6-d8{36} Nh6-g8{14}
24. Qa6-a8{18} Qe6-e7{6}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM17032&game=Chess

Here Rybka again played very stly and won the game.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 23 Feb 2008 14:08:44
From: Terry
Subject: Re: A new game with Rybka (Wins in 24 Moves only)

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:27:10 -0800 (PST), Sanny
<[email protected] > wrote:

>Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM17032&game=Chess
>
>Here Rybka again played very stly and won the game.
>
>Bye
>Sanny
>
>Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>

You don't get games with time added to the clock?
Standard time games suck.
Games with more moves should get more time.

Date: 23 Feb 2008 10:06:25
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

On Feb 23, 1:40=A0pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Feb 23, 2:11 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Normally Rybka ends the game in Middle game (25-30 moves). But today
> > Beginner Level was able to play till end Game. It took Rybka 51 Moves
> > to winGetClubBeginner Level.
>
> > Today an improvement was done So Rybka (Hard Level)
>
> =A0 What is this "hard level"? =A0Does Rybka set
> its strength by allowing you to choose between
> "easy" and "hard"?
>
>
>
>
>
> > White -- Black
> > (Rybka ) -- (beginner)
>
> > 1. e2-e4{2} d7-d6{0}
> > 2. g2-g3{12} Ng8-f6{8}
> > 3. Nb1-c3{10} Bc8-e6{14}
> > 4. Ng1-f3{26} Nb8-c6{6}
> > 5. Bf1-g2{14} d6-d5{6}
> > 6. e4-d5{22} Nf6-d5{18}
> > 7. Ke1-g1{12} Ra8-b8{6}
> > 8. Rf1-e1{16} Nd5-c3{6}
> > 9. b2-c3{14} g7-g6{14}
> > 10. d2-d4{22} Bf8-g7{6}
> > 11. Nf3-g5{24} Be6-d5{8}
> > 12. Bc1-f4{16} Bd5-g2{6}
> > 13. Kg1-g2{20} h7-h6{8}
> > 14. Ng5-e4{18} g6-g5{8}
> > 15. Bf4-e3{14} Qd8-d5{6}
> > 16. Qd1-f3{22} e7-e6{6}
> > 17. Be3-g5{20} Ke8-f8{6}
> > 18. Bg5-f4{72} Rb8-c8{6}
> > 19. Ra1-d1{32} Rh8-g8{6}
> > 20. Rd1-b1{18} b7-b6{6}
> > 21. a2-a4{26} f7-f5{8}
> > 22. Rb1-b5{28} Qd5-d7{6}
> > 23. d4-d5{24} e6-d5{10}
> > 24. Ne4-g5{20} h6-g5{6}
> > 25. Rb5-d5{20} Qd7-f7{6}
> > 26. Rd5-f5{22} Bg7-f6{6}
> > 27. Qf3-c6{22} Rg8-g6{8}
> > 28. Bf4-g5{14} Rc8-e8{6}
> > 29. Re1-e8{18} Qf7-e8{8}
> > 30. Rf5-f6{26} Rg6-f6{6}
> > 31. Qc6-f6{14} Kf8-g8{8}
> > 32. Qf6-d8{18} Qe8-d8{6}
> > 33. Bg5-d8{14} c7-c5{10}
> > 34. Bd8-b6{16} a7-b6{8}
> > 35. Kg2-f3{20} Kg8-f8{6}
> > 36. Kf3-e4{16} Kf8-e8{6}
> > 37. Ke4-d5{14} Ke8-d8{6}
> > 38. Kd5-c6{16} Kd8-e8{8}
> > 39. Kc6-b6{18} c5-c4{54}
> > 40. h2-h4{14} Ke8-d8{6}
> > 41. a4-a5{18} Kd8-d7{6}
> > 42. a5-a6{34} Kd7-e6{6}
> > 43. h4-h5{16} Ke6-f6{6}
> > 44. h5-h6{14} Kf6-g6{6}
> > 45. h6-h7{12} Kg6-h7{6}
> > 46. Kb6-c5{14} Kh7-g8{6}
> > 47. g3-g4{14} Kg8-h7{14}
> > 48. a6-a7{16} Kh7-g6{8}
> > 49. f2-f4{18} Kg6-f7{6}
> > 50. Kc5-d6{16} Kf7-g6{14}
> > 51. Kd6-e6{22} Kg6-h5{6}
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---=AD-----
> > View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM16978&game=
=3DChess
>
> > So you can seeGetClubStruggled till End Game. And for the first time
> > Stopped Rybka from winning till 51 Moves.
>
> > I found Rybka's end game is as poor asGetClubEnd Game.
>
> =A0 That's not really possible; in order for that
> to occur, you would need to gut the program,
> like a fish: remove half its brain, then drug
> the other half so it remains in a state of deep
> sleep... .
>
> > Instead of getting Queen and doing Check Mate it played its King and
> > Pawns aimlessly. Beginner level was able to killl its pawns for no
> > reasions.
>
> =A0 How about operator error?
>
> > What is the Rating of Rybka?
>
> =A0 With Sanny as operator, perhaps 1500.
> With anyone else, somewhere around 3000.
>
> > Here is the new Rating to each level.
>
> > Beginner: 2100 [5-10 sec/move]
> > Easy: 2200 [20-40 sec/move]
> > Normal: 2300 [1-2 min / move]
> > Master: 2400 [5-10 min / move]
>
> > I increased rating of each level by +100, As it played very well
> > against Rybka.
>
> =A0 The trouble is, I recently defeated the Master
> level, so that would seem to make me a 2900
> player! =A0Maybe these numbers are a tad
> optimistic. =A0I am still winning in "offhand" style
> games against the Beginner level, without any
> trouble. =A0And if I hunker down, I can still win
> against any of the other levels-- though not as
> easily or quickly as I would like.
>
> =A0 For purposes of comparison, I once had the
> beta version of the free demo Rybka 1.0-- the
> one with all the bugs. =A0I removed the program's
> Queen's Rook, and proceeded to get
> sumily outplayed; the game went on for
> quite a while, but I eventually traded off enough
> material to *barely* win in the endgame. =A0Next
> time I want to try something like that, I will
> remove the enemy Queen, and hunker down... .
>
> =A0 -- weak bot- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ok I will play a new game with Beginner Level and see if there is any
improvement or not. As nothing can be said with single game.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 23 Feb 2008 09:52:06
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

On Feb 23, 9:02=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected] > wrote:
> I tried again to play a game to start to triangulate on a rating for
> GitClub. =A0Here's what happened. =A0I thought I would try ChessMaster 10
> with its rated personalities (who knows how good the ratings are and
> under what conditions they were taken, but what the heck). =A0I used a
> personality with an 1193 rating and set the game for 2/6 Fischer time,
> with CM as black, GC as white; GC at "easy" level (40 seconds per move
> in theory). =A0Here is the game:
>
> White -- Black
> (easy) -- (CM 1193)
>
> 1. d2-d4{34} e7-e5{24}
> 2. d4-e5{28} Bf8-c5{18}
> 3. Nb1-c3{26} Ng8-f6{20}
> 4. Ng1-f3{74} Rh8-g8{14}
> 5. e5-f6{20} Qd8-f6{12}
> 6. Nc3-d5{32} Qf6-d8{14}
> 7. Bc1-f4{32} d7-d6{28}
> 8. Qd1-d3{36} c7-c6{12}
> 9. Qd3-h7{42} Ke8-f8{12}
> 10. Nd5-c3{22} Qd8-e7{18}
> 11. Qh7-g8{20}
>
> I never actually saw GC's 11th move; the board disappeared and GC
> claimed a win when it had in fact just thrown away its queen (I looked
> up the move in GC's move records afterwards). =A0I guess GC thought this
> was checkmate even though the white queen is unprotected.
>
> Now, up to this point I was reasonably impressed. =A0ChessMaster was
> doing its usual stupid thing of throwing away material to lower its
> rating, but GitClub was handily taking advantage of it (though when CM
> threw away a knight GC waited an extra move to pick it up; luckily CM
> left it hanging). =A0Still, under these conditions thus far in the game
> it seemed like GC was on the way to victory.
>
> But with stupid bugs like claiming a checkmate in error, who has the
> patience to try to evaluate GC properly, with a long enough series of
> games under controlled conditions? =A0 I was about to do that but I was
> frustrated again.
>
> No doubt Sanny will fix this bug and proclaim the program better than
> ever and ready to trounce Rybka in the future, but I'm about ready to
> give it all up. =A0After so many months the program ought to at least
> play by the rules. =A0And it would be really nice to show the final
> position and not just delete the board and say "game over."

Very Strange thing There must be something wrong somewhere.

That game has been restored and Computer played 11. g3 instead of >
11. Qh7-g8{20}

I think Chess Master took was thinking on GetClubs Move and that may
be the reasion of such poor game.

You may continue this game with

1. d2-d4{34} e7-e5{24}
2. d4-e5{28} Bf8-c5{18}
3. Nb1-c3{26} Ng8-f6{20}
4. Ng1-f3{74} Rh8-g8{14}
5. e5-f6{20} Qd8-f6{12}
6. Nc3-d5{32} Qf6-d8{14}
7. Bc1-f4{32} d7-d6{28}
8. Qd1-d3{36} c7-c6{12}
9. Qd3-h7{42} Ke8-f8{12}
10. Nd5-c3{22} Qd8-e7{18}
11. g2-g3{--}

Let me know if you face any other problem, Just login and continue
your game.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 23 Feb 2008 08:02:52
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

I tried again to play a game to start to triangulate on a rating for
GitClub. Here's what happened. I thought I would try ChessMaster 10
with its rated personalities (who knows how good the ratings are and
under what conditions they were taken, but what the heck). I used a
personality with an 1193 rating and set the game for 2/6 Fischer time,
with CM as black, GC as white; GC at "easy" level (40 seconds per move
in theory). Here is the game:

White -- Black
(easy) -- (CM 1193)

1. d2-d4{34} e7-e5{24}
2. d4-e5{28} Bf8-c5{18}
3. Nb1-c3{26} Ng8-f6{20}
4. Ng1-f3{74} Rh8-g8{14}
5. e5-f6{20} Qd8-f6{12}
6. Nc3-d5{32} Qf6-d8{14}
7. Bc1-f4{32} d7-d6{28}
8. Qd1-d3{36} c7-c6{12}
9. Qd3-h7{42} Ke8-f8{12}
10. Nd5-c3{22} Qd8-e7{18}
11. Qh7-g8{20}

I never actually saw GC's 11th move; the board disappeared and GC
claimed a win when it had in fact just thrown away its queen (I looked
up the move in GC's move records afterwards). I guess GC thought this
was checkmate even though the white queen is unprotected.

Now, up to this point I was reasonably impressed. ChessMaster was
doing its usual stupid thing of throwing away material to lower its
rating, but GitClub was handily taking advantage of it (though when CM
threw away a knight GC waited an extra move to pick it up; luckily CM
left it hanging). Still, under these conditions thus far in the game
it seemed like GC was on the way to victory.

But with stupid bugs like claiming a checkmate in error, who has the
patience to try to evaluate GC properly, with a long enough series of
games under controlled conditions? I was about to do that but I was
frustrated again.

No doubt Sanny will fix this bug and proclaim the program better than
ever and ready to trounce Rybka in the future, but I'm about ready to
give it all up. After so many months the program ought to at least
play by the rules. And it would be really nice to show the final
position and not just delete the board and say "game over."

Date: 23 Feb 2008 08:28:20
From: J.D. Walker
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

[email protected] wrote:
> I tried again to play a game to start to triangulate on a rating for
> GitClub. Here's what happened. I thought I would try ChessMaster 10
> with its rated personalities (who knows how good the ratings are and
> under what conditions they were taken, but what the heck). I used a
> personality with an 1193 rating and set the game for 2/6 Fischer time,
> with CM as black, GC as white; GC at "easy" level (40 seconds per move
> in theory). Here is the game:
>
> White -- Black
> (easy) -- (CM 1193)
>
> 1. d2-d4{34} e7-e5{24}
> 2. d4-e5{28} Bf8-c5{18}
> 3. Nb1-c3{26} Ng8-f6{20}
> 4. Ng1-f3{74} Rh8-g8{14}
> 5. e5-f6{20} Qd8-f6{12}
> 6. Nc3-d5{32} Qf6-d8{14}
> 7. Bc1-f4{32} d7-d6{28}
> 8. Qd1-d3{36} c7-c6{12}
> 9. Qd3-h7{42} Ke8-f8{12}
> 10. Nd5-c3{22} Qd8-e7{18}
> 11. Qh7-g8{20}
>
> I never actually saw GC's 11th move; the board disappeared and GC
> claimed a win when it had in fact just thrown away its queen (I looked
> up the move in GC's move records afterwards). I guess GC thought this
> was checkmate even though the white queen is unprotected.
>
> Now, up to this point I was reasonably impressed. ChessMaster was
> doing its usual stupid thing of throwing away material to lower its
> rating, but GitClub was handily taking advantage of it (though when CM
> threw away a knight GC waited an extra move to pick it up; luckily CM
> left it hanging). Still, under these conditions thus far in the game
> it seemed like GC was on the way to victory.
>
> But with stupid bugs like claiming a checkmate in error, who has the
> patience to try to evaluate GC properly, with a long enough series of
> games under controlled conditions? I was about to do that but I was
> frustrated again.
>
> No doubt Sanny will fix this bug and proclaim the program better than
> ever and ready to trounce Rybka in the future, but I'm about ready to
> give it all up. After so many months the program ought to at least
> play by the rules. And it would be really nice to show the final
> position and not just delete the board and say "game over."
>

It seems very simple to me. If a program can not play by the rules, its
rating is zero.
--

Cordially,
Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.

Date: 23 Feb 2008 00:40:17
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub (Beginner) played Rybka till end Game. [51 Moves]

On Feb 23, 2:11 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:

> Normally Rybka ends the game in Middle game (25-30 moves). But today
> Beginner Level was able to play till end Game. It took Rybka 51 Moves
> to win GetClub Beginner Level.
>
> Today an improvement was done So Rybka (Hard Level)

What is this "hard level"? Does Rybka set
its strength by allowing you to choose between
"easy" and "hard"?

> White -- Black
> (Rybka ) -- (beginner)
>
> 1. e2-e4{2} d7-d6{0}
> 2. g2-g3{12} Ng8-f6{8}
> 3. Nb1-c3{10} Bc8-e6{14}
> 4. Ng1-f3{26} Nb8-c6{6}
> 5. Bf1-g2{14} d6-d5{6}
> 6. e4-d5{22} Nf6-d5{18}
> 7. Ke1-g1{12} Ra8-b8{6}
> 8. Rf1-e1{16} Nd5-c3{6}
> 9. b2-c3{14} g7-g6{14}
> 10. d2-d4{22} Bf8-g7{6}
> 11. Nf3-g5{24} Be6-d5{8}
> 12. Bc1-f4{16} Bd5-g2{6}
> 13. Kg1-g2{20} h7-h6{8}
> 14. Ng5-e4{18} g6-g5{8}
> 15. Bf4-e3{14} Qd8-d5{6}
> 16. Qd1-f3{22} e7-e6{6}
> 17. Be3-g5{20} Ke8-f8{6}
> 18. Bg5-f4{72} Rb8-c8{6}
> 19. Ra1-d1{32} Rh8-g8{6}
> 20. Rd1-b1{18} b7-b6{6}
> 21. a2-a4{26} f7-f5{8}
> 22. Rb1-b5{28} Qd5-d7{6}
> 23. d4-d5{24} e6-d5{10}
> 24. Ne4-g5{20} h6-g5{6}
> 25. Rb5-d5{20} Qd7-f7{6}
> 26. Rd5-f5{22} Bg7-f6{6}
> 27. Qf3-c6{22} Rg8-g6{8}
> 28. Bf4-g5{14} Rc8-e8{6}
> 29. Re1-e8{18} Qf7-e8{8}
> 30. Rf5-f6{26} Rg6-f6{6}
> 31. Qc6-f6{14} Kf8-g8{8}
> 32. Qf6-d8{18} Qe8-d8{6}
> 33. Bg5-d8{14} c7-c5{10}
> 34. Bd8-b6{16} a7-b6{8}
> 35. Kg2-f3{20} Kg8-f8{6}
> 36. Kf3-e4{16} Kf8-e8{6}
> 37. Ke4-d5{14} Ke8-d8{6}
> 38. Kd5-c6{16} Kd8-e8{8}
> 39. Kc6-b6{18} c5-c4{54}
> 40. h2-h4{14} Ke8-d8{6}
> 41. a4-a5{18} Kd8-d7{6}
> 42. a5-a6{34} Kd7-e6{6}
> 43. h4-h5{16} Ke6-f6{6}
> 44. h5-h6{14} Kf6-g6{6}
> 45. h6-h7{12} Kg6-h7{6}
> 46. Kb6-c5{14} Kh7-g8{6}
> 47. g3-g4{14} Kg8-h7{14}
> 48. a6-a7{16} Kh7-g6{8}
> 49. f2-f4{18} Kg6-f7{6}
> 50. Kc5-d6{16} Kf7-g6{14}
> 51. Kd6-e6{22} Kg6-h5{6}
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16978&game=Chess
>
> So you can see GetClub Struggled till End Game. And for the first time
> Stopped Rybka from winning till 51 Moves.
>
> I found Rybka's end game is as poor as GetClub End Game.

That's not really possible; in order for that
to occur, you would need to gut the program,
like a fish: remove half its brain, then drug
the other half so it remains in a state of deep
sleep... .

> Instead of getting Queen and doing Check Mate it played its King and
> Pawns aimlessly. Beginner level was able to killl its pawns for no
> reasions.

How about operator error?

> What is the Rating of Rybka?

With Sanny as operator, perhaps 1500.
With anyone else, somewhere around 3000.

> Here is the new Rating to each level.
>
> Beginner: 2100 [5-10 sec/move]
> Easy: 2200 [20-40 sec/move]
> Normal: 2300 [1-2 min / move]
> Master: 2400 [5-10 min / move]
>
> I increased rating of each level by +100, As it played very well
> against Rybka.

The trouble is, I recently defeated the Master
level, so that would seem to make me a 2900
player! Maybe these numbers are a tad
optimistic. I am still winning in "offhand" style
games against the Beginner level, without any
trouble. And if I hunker down, I can still win
against any of the other levels-- though not as
easily or quickly as I would like.

For purposes of comparison, I once had the
beta version of the free demo Rybka 1.0-- the
one with all the bugs. I removed the program's
Queen's Rook, and proceeded to get
sumily outplayed; the game went on for
quite a while, but I eventually traded off enough
material to *barely* win in the endgame. Next
time I want to try something like that, I will
remove the enemy Queen, and hunker down... .

-- weak bot