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Main
Date: 02 Dec 2008 13:36:22
From:
Subject: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
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OLYMPIAD: RESULTS MAY BE REVIEWED
[12:38 pm] 02 December, 2008
The results of the recent World Chess Olympiad in Dresden may be
reviewed.
Leading chess player of Ukraine Vasili Ivanchuk refused to move on to
a doping test after the 11th round. As a result, the renowned
grosmeister may be disqualified for 2 years and Ukraine may lose the
Gaprindashvili cup, which was given after the counting of the results
of the Ukrainian men and women chess players.
Based on these results, Ukraine was in first place and Armenia came in
second because the men=92s team placed 1st, while the women placed 6th.
If Ukraine is disqualified, Armenia will place first with the total of
men=92s and women=92s results.
The president of FIDE Kirsan Ilyumzhinov has personally made an
announcement regarding the possible disqualification of Ukraine.
Source: http://www.a1plus.am/
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Date: 19 Dec 2008 14:47:19
From:
Subject: Re: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
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On Dec 19, 5:11=A0pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected] > wrote:
> I disapprove strongly of drug-testing. However, I must note that
> Zukertort relied on a substance called aconite (I believe this is also
> called wolf-bane) in his greatest performance, the London 1883
> tournament. It isn't clear whether this is an "illegal substance";
Not likely it was illegal back then; few drugs were. Opiates,
cocaine, and other now "controlled substances" were often ingredients
in various patent nostrums.
> I would think it is roughly like steroids, available if prescribed by a
> doctor, but it could well be considered an illegal drug in the context
> of sport.
>
> Aconite has strange properties; I think for Zukertort it could roughly
> be classed as calming his tendency towards nervousness.
That fits with what is said about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aconitum#Uses
It is described as lowering the pulse and respiration rate, and
relieving pain. Interestingly, it says "The cerebrum is totally
unaffected by aconite, consciousness and the intelligence remaining
normal to the last." This would be essential for a chess player.
However, in too-large doses, it can be fatal, causing respiration to
stop altogether.
Did Zukertort suffer from high blood pressure? As I recall, he died
of a stroke, like Capablanca. He might have been using aconite to get
some relief from his chronic condition.
> On Dec 2, 7:46=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > WHAT A FARCE!
>
> > See "The Case Against Drug Testing" by this writer and GM Larry Evans
> > in his latest book THE CRAZY WORLD OF CHESS =A0(page 82).
>
> > Also "Not Keene On Testing" (page 80)
>
> > "Never in.history has any illegal substance enabled anyone to win a
> > single game of chess. Yet FIDE is now pushing for universal drug
> > testing on the pretext of getting chess into the Olympics, thus making
> > it eligible for government funding in many nations." -- GM Evans
>
> > Mike Murray wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:36:22 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > >The president of FIDE Kirsan Ilyumzhinov has personally made an
> > > >announcement regarding the possible disqualification of Ukraine.
>
> > > He could have had the space aliens abduct said refusenik and test him
> > > anyway.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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Date: 19 Dec 2008 14:11:33
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
|
I disapprove strongly of drug-testing. However, I must note that
Zukertort relied on a substance called aconite (I believe this is also
called wolf-bane) in his greatest performance, the London 1883
tournament. It isn't clear whether this is an "illegal substance"; I
would think it is roughly like steroids, available if prescribed by a
doctor, but it could well be considered an illegal drug in the context
of sport.
Aconite has strange properties; I think for Zukertort it could roughly
be classed as calming his tendency towards nervousness.
Jerry Spinrad
On Dec 2, 7:46=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected] > wrote:
> WHAT A FARCE!
>
> See "The Case Against Drug Testing" by this writer and GM Larry Evans
> in his latest book THE CRAZY WORLD OF CHESS =A0(page 82).
>
> Also "Not Keene On Testing" (page 80)
>
> "Never in.history has any illegal substance enabled anyone to win a
> single game of chess. Yet FIDE is now pushing for universal drug
> testing on the pretext of getting chess into the Olympics, thus making
> it eligible for government funding in many nations." -- GM Evans
>
>
>
> Mike Murray wrote:
> > On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:36:22 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:
>
> > >The president of FIDE Kirsan Ilyumzhinov has personally made an
> > >announcement regarding the possible disqualification of Ukraine.
>
> > He could have had the space aliens abduct said refusenik and test him
> > anyway.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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Date: 19 Dec 2008 14:21:22
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
|
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:11:33 -0800 (PST),
"[email protected]" <[email protected] >
wrote:
.
>Zukertort relied on a substance called aconite (I believe this is also
>called wolf-bane) in his greatest performance, the London 1883
>tournament..
It led to his downfall. Steinitz kept toying with a silver bullet
during the match and ....
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Date: 19 Dec 2008 11:42:56
From: None
Subject: Re: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
|
On Dec 19, 2:05=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected] > wrote:
> FROM CHESSBASE
>
> During the Grand Prix in Elista the organisers thankfully used the
> opportunity to poll everyone =96 well, nine of the fourteen players at
> any rate =96 on their opinions regarding doping in chess. Here are their
> answers:
>
> Shakhriyar Mamedyarov: I have no idea what doping is because I have
> never used it. I think doping doesn=92t assist chess-players that much
> and I doubt if anybody uses it at the top-level tournaments. Chess
> isn=92t sport in its original scope, it=92s not an Olympic kind of sport
> like track-and-field or gymnastics. The older players may use
> something to feel better, to support themselves during the game =96 say,
> drink a lot of coffee. Actually I don=92t care at all whether there is
> chess doping or not.
>
> Ernesto Inarkiev: For me the main chess doping is psychological
> motivation. There were a couple of cases in my life when I seemed to
> have exhausted my resources but I overcame myself. In case we speak
> about doping in its denotative meaning, I think that it is possible if
> you feel exhausted.
>
> Alexander Grischuk: The principal doping in our profession is the
> desire to play, to struggle at the chessboard. It gives me strength,
> because when you don=92t feel like playing but have to, you cannot do
> everything you could. As for food and beverages=85 in case of a
> professional approach it can be very promising. I think some
> stimulating agents could be suitable for chess. Any doping agent
> should be applied with care because in the event that you use it on a
> long-term basis, it can result in severe consequences.
>
> Evgeny Alexeev: If under the doping one can understand the stimulus
> for the chess game, as for me, I have only one =96 it is striving to the
> victory.
>
> Rustam Kasimdzhanov: In point of fact, as far as I understand, you
> want to hear something about concrete chemical substances used by
> chess players? For many chess players alcohol can act as doping during
> the tough period of their chess career. It helps them to come to life,
> to organize themselves for the further emotions. I am trying to
> abstain from any kind of doping lately, including alcohol and coffee
> during the game. I am trying to play on human resources. And you can
> see the results now=85 (Yesterday Kasimdzhanov lost his second straight
> game). May be, I should stop all this?
>
> Peter Leko: I think chess is a more intellectual than physical kind of
> sport. There is no point in speaking about chess doping.
>
> Teimour Radjabov: It is difficult to say what you can use in order to
> win the game. Coffee, tea, cigarettes can=92t promote good results. If
> you have slept well, have come to the game in a good mood =96 it is not
> a guarantee of success as well. But if we talk about real doping, in
> particular, to comment the case at the Dresden Chess Olympiad, when
> the leader of the Ukrainian team Vasily Ivanchuk has not come to the
> doping test, it will take a lot of time...
>
> Vladimir Akopian: Chess is a job for grandmasters since childhood,
> though a pleasant one, and the attitude to this profession is serious,
> as to the real one. Playing at top level, one has to work hard and
> spend a lot of time on the preparation for the tournaments. A strong
> tea helps me to be in good shape, while I have never liked coffee.
> During the game I can drink several cups of tea.
>
> Vugar Gashimov: Usually during the game I drink only water. Chess, I
> can say, is a kind of doping itself, even a drug. All grandmasters
> have become addicts of this wise game since childhood and can=92t get
> rid of it for the rest of their life.
>
>
>
> [email protected] wrote:
> > WHAT A FARCE!
>
> > See "The Case Against Drug Testing" by this writer and GM Larry Evans
> > in his latest book THE CRAZY WORLD OF CHESS =A0(page 82).
>
> > Also "Not Keene On Testing" (page 80)
>
> > "Never in.history has any illegal substance enabled anyone to win a
> > single game of chess. Yet FIDE is now pushing for universal drug
> > testing on the pretext of getting chess into the Olympics, thus making
> > it eligible for government funding in many nations." -- GM Evans
>
> > Mike Murray wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:36:22 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > >The president of FIDE Kirsan Ilyumzhinov has personally made an
> > > >announcement regarding the possible disqualification of Ukraine.
>
> > > He could have had the space aliens abduct said refusenik and test him
> > > anyway.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Try Ritalin, it won't make you any more knowledgeable, just mentally
sharper.
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Date: 18 Dec 2008 23:05:26
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
|
FROM CHESSBASE
During the Grand Prix in Elista the organisers thankfully used the
opportunity to poll everyone =96 well, nine of the fourteen players at
any rate =96 on their opinions regarding doping in chess. Here are their
answers:
Shakhriyar Mamedyarov: I have no idea what doping is because I have
never used it. I think doping doesn=92t assist chess-players that much
and I doubt if anybody uses it at the top-level tournaments. Chess
isn=92t sport in its original scope, it=92s not an Olympic kind of sport
like track-and-field or gymnastics. The older players may use
something to feel better, to support themselves during the game =96 say,
drink a lot of coffee. Actually I don=92t care at all whether there is
chess doping or not.
Ernesto Inarkiev: For me the main chess doping is psychological
motivation. There were a couple of cases in my life when I seemed to
have exhausted my resources but I overcame myself. In case we speak
about doping in its denotative meaning, I think that it is possible if
you feel exhausted.
Alexander Grischuk: The principal doping in our profession is the
desire to play, to struggle at the chessboard. It gives me strength,
because when you don=92t feel like playing but have to, you cannot do
everything you could. As for food and beverages=85 in case of a
professional approach it can be very promising. I think some
stimulating agents could be suitable for chess. Any doping agent
should be applied with care because in the event that you use it on a
long-term basis, it can result in severe consequences.
Evgeny Alexeev: If under the doping one can understand the stimulus
for the chess game, as for me, I have only one =96 it is striving to the
victory.
Rustam Kasimdzhanov: In point of fact, as far as I understand, you
want to hear something about concrete chemical substances used by
chess players? For many chess players alcohol can act as doping during
the tough period of their chess career. It helps them to come to life,
to organize themselves for the further emotions. I am trying to
abstain from any kind of doping lately, including alcohol and coffee
during the game. I am trying to play on human resources. And you can
see the results now=85 (Yesterday Kasimdzhanov lost his second straight
game). May be, I should stop all this?
Peter Leko: I think chess is a more intellectual than physical kind of
sport. There is no point in speaking about chess doping.
Teimour Radjabov: It is difficult to say what you can use in order to
win the game. Coffee, tea, cigarettes can=92t promote good results. If
you have slept well, have come to the game in a good mood =96 it is not
a guarantee of success as well. But if we talk about real doping, in
particular, to comment the case at the Dresden Chess Olympiad, when
the leader of the Ukrainian team Vasily Ivanchuk has not come to the
doping test, it will take a lot of time...
Vladimir Akopian: Chess is a job for grandmasters since childhood,
though a pleasant one, and the attitude to this profession is serious,
as to the real one. Playing at top level, one has to work hard and
spend a lot of time on the preparation for the tournaments. A strong
tea helps me to be in good shape, while I have never liked coffee.
During the game I can drink several cups of tea.
Vugar Gashimov: Usually during the game I drink only water. Chess, I
can say, is a kind of doping itself, even a drug. All grandmasters
have become addicts of this wise game since childhood and can=92t get
rid of it for the rest of their life.
[email protected] wrote:
> WHAT A FARCE!
>
> See "The Case Against Drug Testing" by this writer and GM Larry Evans
> in his latest book THE CRAZY WORLD OF CHESS (page 82).
>
> Also "Not Keene On Testing" (page 80)
>
> "Never in.history has any illegal substance enabled anyone to win a
> single game of chess. Yet FIDE is now pushing for universal drug
> testing on the pretext of getting chess into the Olympics, thus making
> it eligible for government funding in many nations." -- GM Evans
>
> Mike Murray wrote:
> > On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:36:22 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >
> > >The president of FIDE Kirsan Ilyumzhinov has personally made an
> > >announcement regarding the possible disqualification of Ukraine.
> >
> > He could have had the space aliens abduct said refusenik and test him
> > anyway.
|
| |
Date: 03 Dec 2008 14:12:30
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
|
FFS man... Vassily is a USER, he's a crack WHORE! Try to live with it.
|
| |
Date: 03 Dec 2008 08:23:56
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
|
On Dec 3, 10:07=A0am, zdrakec <[email protected] > wrote:
> > > "Never in.history has any illegal substance enabled anyone to win a
> > > single game of chess."
> Ridiculous. No drug can figure out the moves for you, however
> "clearly" it my help you think.
Think again: the claim was not that drugs can
figure out what moves you should play. Mr.
Keene's innumerable gaffes have aroused the
ire of The Great Pedant, for though a tireless
worker, even he cannot manage to keep track
of them all!
Compounding Mr. Keene's idiocy is the fact
that there are some who rely upon his rather
unique stupidity as the foundation for "their
own" -- and I use the term very loosely here --
opinions. Dregs like Larry Evans regurgitate
Mr. Keene's gibberish, and our own Larry Parr
in turn mindlessly parrots Evans. But that's
not the end of the story-- far from it. We have
brown-nosers like Mr. IMnes who parrot Parr,
and other mindless dregs who believe almost
anything they read, who follow these others
off the same cliff of ignorance.
When Virgil wrote that /fortune favors the
bold/, I don't believe what he had in mind was
this lemming-like rashness in jumping off cliffs
of ignorance, only to go *splat* on the rocks of
reason.
-- help bot
|
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Date: 03 Dec 2008 07:07:53
From: zdrakec
Subject: Re: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
|
On Dec 3, 8:51=A0am, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Dec 2, 8:46=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Never in.history has any illegal substance enabled anyone to win a
> > single game of chess."
>
> =A0 Not only is that comment pure nonsense, but
> worse, it overlooks the obvious fact that many
> substances which enhance performance are
> /perfectly legal/. =A0 LOL
>
> =A0 It is widely known that the U.S. military uses
> and has long used drugs to enhance the
> performance of certain folks, such as for
> instance, fighter pilots. =A0 And anyone who has
> read, say, Consumer Reports magazine, will
> recognize that although many "herbs" are
> dismissed as unproven or ineffectual, there
> are several which are proven in this area--
> though none can substitute for chess skill
> (too bad, for I could certainly use all the
> help I can get).
>
> =A0 A few of these drugs are proven to improve
> alertness, while others affect blood circulation
> to the brain or some other vital function, such
> as memory recall. =A0 =A0In grandmaster-level
> chess, recall is doubly important, for these
> guys can sometimes play half a normal-
> length game just by rote.
>
> =A0 In sum, quoting Ray Keene for the facts is
> about as useful as shuffling deck chairs on a
> sinking Titanic. =A0 It's like putting on a raincoat
> to shield against nuclear radiation. =A0 It's like
> throwing an anchor to a drowning man... .
>
> =A0 -- help bot
Ridiculous. No drug can figure out the moves for you, however
"clearly" it my help you think.
|
| |
Date: 03 Dec 2008 07:03:03
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
|
On Dec 2, 9:28=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> =A0 So what did he supposedly take -- an aspirin?
Don't knock it. If the stress of a really tough
game is too much, downing a bit of aspirin
could save you from a coronary-- though the
laws of chess are clear on this: you can still
lose on time, and the game counts for rating
purposes.
The easiest way to dupe the drug-police is
to suck on a peppermint candy when you
want to be more alert; if you want to relax,
just play over some really boring games in
your mind. And if you *really* want to
snooker the drug-testers, rely on excercise
and good nutrition-- this always leaves 'em
scratching their heads; but watch out or you
might get accused of consulting a
computer.
-- help bot
|
| |
Date: 03 Dec 2008 06:51:44
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
|
On Dec 2, 8:46=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "Never in.history has any illegal substance enabled anyone to win a
> single game of chess."
Not only is that comment pure nonsense, but
worse, it overlooks the obvious fact that many
substances which enhance performance are
/perfectly legal/. LOL
It is widely known that the U.S. military uses
and has long used drugs to enhance the
performance of certain folks, such as for
instance, fighter pilots. And anyone who has
read, say, Consumer Reports magazine, will
recognize that although many "herbs" are
dismissed as unproven or ineffectual, there
are several which are proven in this area--
though none can substitute for chess skill
(too bad, for I could certainly use all the
help I can get).
A few of these drugs are proven to improve
alertness, while others affect blood circulation
to the brain or some other vital function, such
as memory recall. In grandmaster-level
chess, recall is doubly important, for these
guys can sometimes play half a normal-
length game just by rote.
In sum, quoting Ray Keene for the facts is
about as useful as shuffling deck chairs on a
sinking Titanic. It's like putting on a raincoat
to shield against nuclear radiation. It's like
throwing an anchor to a drowning man... .
-- help bot
|
| |
Date: 03 Dec 2008 05:46:01
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
|
On Dec 2, 9:36=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> OLYMPIAD: RESULTS MAY BE REVIEWED
> [12:38 pm] 02 December, 2008
>
> The results of the recent World Chess Olympiad in Dresden may be
> reviewed.
>
> Leading chess player of Ukraine Vasili Ivanchuk refused to move on to
> a doping test after the 11th round. As a result, the renowned
> grosmeister may be disqualified for 2 years and Ukraine may lose the
> Gaprindashvili cup, which was given after the counting of the results
> of the Ukrainian men and women chess players.
>
> Based on these results, Ukraine was in first place and Armenia came in
> second because the men=92s team placed 1st, while the women placed 6th.
> If Ukraine is disqualified, Armenia will place first with the total of
> men=92s and women=92s results.
>
> The president of FIDE Kirsan Ilyumzhinov has personally made an
> announcement regarding the possible disqualification of Ukraine.
>
> Source:http://www.a1plus.am/
Although Ivanchuk is a hatmless heroin addict when not competing,
during tournaments he like to freebase on crack cocaine. During games
he leaves the building to go to alleyways where he smokes skunk.
|
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Date: 02 Dec 2008 18:28:12
From:
Subject: Re: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
|
On Dec 2, 4:36=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> OLYMPIAD: RESULTS MAY BE REVIEWED
> [12:38 pm] 02 December, 2008
>
> The results of the recent World Chess Olympiad in Dresden may be
> reviewed.
>
> Leading chess player of Ukraine Vasili Ivanchuk refused to move on to
> a doping test after the 11th round. As a result, the renowned
> grosmeister may be disqualified for 2 years and Ukraine may lose the
> Gaprindashvili cup, which was given after the counting of the results
> of the Ukrainian men and women chess players.
>
> Based on these results, Ukraine was in first place and Armenia came in
> second because the men=92s team placed 1st, while the women placed 6th.
> If Ukraine is disqualified, Armenia will place first with the total of
> men=92s and women=92s results.
>
> The president of FIDE Kirsan Ilyumzhinov has personally made an
> announcement regarding the possible disqualification of Ukraine.
>
> Source:http://www.a1plus.am/
So what did he supposedly take -- an aspirin?
|
| |
Date: 02 Dec 2008 17:46:23
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
|
WHAT A FARCE!
See "The Case Against Drug Testing" by this writer and GM Larry Evans
in his latest book THE CRAZY WORLD OF CHESS (page 82).
Also "Not Keene On Testing" (page 80)
"Never in.history has any illegal substance enabled anyone to win a
single game of chess. Yet FIDE is now pushing for universal drug
testing on the pretext of getting chess into the Olympics, thus making
it eligible for government funding in many nations." -- GM Evans
Mike Murray wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:36:22 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:
>
>
> >The president of FIDE Kirsan Ilyumzhinov has personally made an
> >announcement regarding the possible disqualification of Ukraine.
>
> He could have had the space aliens abduct said refusenik and test him
> anyway.
|
| |
Date: 02 Dec 2008 14:40:47
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: Drugs at Olympics - Ivanchuk is the Refusenik
|
On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:36:22 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:
>The president of FIDE Kirsan Ilyumzhinov has personally made an
>announcement regarding the possible disqualification of Ukraine.
He could have had the space aliens abduct said refusenik and test him
anyway.
|
|
