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Which famous chess player appears in John Donne's poem "At the Round
Earth's Imagined Corners"?
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Date: 07 Oct 2008 09:26:03
From: William Hyde
Subject: Re: Chess quiz question
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On Oct 7, 10:34=A0am, The Historian <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> While on the subject, the sonnet Taylor Kingston quoted is part of a
> series. The best known one is below. As far as I know, there is no
> chess player mentioned in it, aside from Death:
No chess players? Why, there are two I've met in every tournament I
ever played in.
.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1Death, be not proud, though some have called=
thee
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2Mighty and dreadful, for thou art not so;
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 3For those whom thou think'st thou dost overt=
hrow,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 4Die not, poor Death, nor yet canst thou kill=
me.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 5From rest and sleep, which but thy pictures =
be,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 6Much pleasure; then from thee much more must=
flow,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 7And soonest our best men with thee do go,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 8Rest of their bones, and soul's delivery.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 9Thou art slave to fate, chance, kings, and d=
esperate
> men,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 10And dost with poison, war, and sickness dwell;
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 11And poppy or charms can make us sleep as well
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 12And better than thy stroke; why swell'st thou t=
hen?
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 13One short sleep past, we wake eternally,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 14And death shall be no more; Death, thou shalt d=
ie.
William Hyde
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Date: 07 Oct 2008 07:36:18
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Chess quiz question
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On Oct 5, 1:17=A0pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected] > wrote:
> Which famous chess player appears in John Donne's poem "At the Round
> Earth's Imagined Corners"?
Death. See the film "The Seventh Seal."
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Date: 07 Oct 2008 07:34:13
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Chess quiz question
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On Oct 5, 5:41=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 5, 2:17=A0pm, "[email protected]"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Which famous chess player appears in John Donne's poem "At the Round
> > Earth's Imagined Corners"?
>
> =A0 If this is the poem you had in mind, I fail to see where any
> particular human person is mentioned, let alone a chess player:
>
> AT the round earths imagin'd corners, blow
> Your trumpets, Angells, and arise, arise
> From death, you numberlesse infinities
> Of soules, and to your scattred bodies goe,
> All whom the flood did, and fire shall o'erthrow,
> All whom warre, dearth, age, agues, tyrannies,
> Despaire, law, chance, hath slaine, and you whose eyes,
> Shall behold God, and never tast deaths woe.
> But let them sleepe, Lord, and mee mourne a space,
> For, if above all these, my sinnes abound,
> 'Tis late to aske abundance of thy grace,
> When wee are there; here on this lowly ground,
> Teach mee how to repent; for that's as good
> As if thou'hadst seal'd my pardon, with thy blood.
>
> =A0 Furthermore, through Donne's lifetime (1572-1631), there had been
> very few famous chess players, at least in Europe. Ruy L=F3pez
> (1530?-1580?) and Giacchino Greco (1600-1634) are about the only ones
> that come to mind offhand.
> =A0 So whom did you have in mind?
While on the subject, the sonnet Taylor Kingston quoted is part of a
series. The best known one is below. As far as I know, there is no
chess player mentioned in it, aside from Death:
1Death, be not proud, though some have called thee
2Mighty and dreadful, for thou art not so;
3For those whom thou think'st thou dost overthrow,
4Die not, poor Death, nor yet canst thou kill me.
5From rest and sleep, which but thy pictures be,
6Much pleasure; then from thee much more must flow,
7And soonest our best men with thee do go,
8Rest of their bones, and soul's delivery.
9Thou art slave to fate, chance, kings, and desperate
men,
10And dost with poison, war, and sickness dwell;
11And poppy or charms can make us sleep as well
12And better than thy stroke; why swell'st thou then?
13One short sleep past, we wake eternally,
14And death shall be no more; Death, thou shalt die.
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Date: 07 Oct 2008 07:28:48
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Chess quiz question
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On Oct 6, 3:52=A0pm, "John Salerno" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "Offramp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:b2a2afb4-e351-45e8-8f10-bfefd5dd7d56@t65g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Actually, this was my question - I used someone else's computer.
> No chess player is mentioned. He *appears* in the first line.
> And his name is....
> (it's a bit farther down....)
>
> Interesting. Was it intentional?
Considering Donne died in 1631, probably not.
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Date: 07 Oct 2008 12:17:29
From: John Salerno
Subject: Re: Chess quiz question
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"The Historian" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>Considering Donne died in 1631, probably not.
Heh, I knew more about Donne than Simagin. :)
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Date: 06 Oct 2008 15:48:27
From:
Subject: Re: Chess quiz question
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On Oct 6, 4:37=A0pm, Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 6, 2:21 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > On Oct 6, 12:23 am, Offramp <[email protected]> wrote:
> > =A0 Ah, yes -- "Earth'S IMAGINed corners." I tried reading down the
> > first letter of each line for a hidden name, and got nothing, but it
> > did not occur to me treat the whole poem like a word search puzzle.
> > Clever. And it got me reading Donne for the first time since high
> > school, and made me realize where sci-fi author Philip Jose Farmer got
> > the title for one of his novels.
>
> And I have just acquired the novel, following your advice.
> I have never heard of him - Farmer - and I have a few other books to
> read. But hopefully I'll be able to read it soon.
Farmer is a very famous sci-fi author. This book is part of his
"Riverworld" series, several novels set on a far-off planet created by
some mysterious and incredibly advanced alien race, on which every
human who has ever lived is somehow reincarnated. Everyone, from
Neanderthals to 20th-century people, is restored as an adult in his/
her prime, with all his memories of life on Earth but nothing else.
The various novels feature such famous folks as Jesus Christ, Herman
G=F6ring, Mark Twain, actor Tom Mix, explorer Richard Francis Burton,
Alice Plesasance Liddell (of Lewis Carroll fame) and others. Perhaps
not as good as his "World of Tiers" series, but pretty good.
> Thank you Taylor.
You're quite welcome.
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Date: 06 Oct 2008 15:47:34
From: William Hyde
Subject: Re: Chess quiz question
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On Oct 6, 4:37=A0pm, Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 6, 2:21 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > On Oct 6, 12:23 am, Offramp <[email protected]> wrote:
> > =A0 Ah, yes -- "Earth'S IMAGINed corners." I tried reading down the
> > first letter of each line for a hidden name, and got nothing, but it
> > did not occur to me treat the whole poem like a word search puzzle.
> > Clever. And it got me reading Donne for the first time since high
> > school, and made me realize where sci-fi author Philip Jose Farmer got
> > the title for one of his novels.
>
> And I have just acquired the novel, following your advice.
> I have never heard of him - Farmer - and I have a few other books to
> read. But hopefully I'll be able to read it soon.
When I read this years ago I quite liked it. There are a number of
sequels, and opinions vary as to how fast they decline in quality, but
not as to the decline itself.
Personally I recommend reading the first two, then carry on to the
third only if you really liked the second.
He has another series, the "World of the Tiers" series which is
somewhat similar in theme (starts with "A Private Cosmos"). This
series is good for about four books, though again, opinions differ.
Farmer was under considerable pressure from fans to finish these
series, so possibly wrote the books before he was ready to, and as I
understand it he had money problems as well.
William Hyde
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Date: 06 Oct 2008 14:25:29
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Chess quiz question
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On Oct 6, 9:52 pm, "John Salerno" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "Offramp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:b2a2afb4-e351-45e8-8f10-bfefd5dd7d56@t65g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Actually, this was my question - I used someone else's computer.
> No chess player is mentioned. He *appears* in the first line.
> And his name is....
> (it's a bit farther down....)
>
> Interesting. Was it intentional?
My English teacher pointed this oddity out to me.
He said, "Vladimir Pavlovich Simagin was a much-admired Soviet player
and teacher. He was a late bloomer by chess standards, although much
of this can be put down to the timing of World War II, which stopped
most chess competition in the Soviet Union for several years. He
became an International Master in 1950, and earned the Grandmaster
title in 1962. He also earned the International Master title in
Correspondence Chess in 1965, and was Soviet correspondence champion
in 1964. He scored 8.5/17 in the 1945 Moscow Championship, for a tied
7th-8th places, well behind champion Vasily Smyslov. Simagin's first
important high-class result was second place in the 1946 Moscow
Championship, with 11/15, behind winner David Bronstein. In the 1946
Baltic Championship at Vilnius, he scored 13/19 while playing 'hors
concours', and this was good for fourth place, behind the top placed
Yuri Averbakh (also h.c.). In the 1947 Moscow Championship, he tied
for top place with Bronstein and Georgy Rivinsky, with 9/14, and then
won the playoff match-tournament. Also in 1947, he tied for 1st-2nd
with Semyon Furman in the Championship of the Spartak Club, with
15/19, and also won that playoff match. It took him some time to
qualify for his first Soviet final. He was unsuccessful in the semi-
final at Leningrad 1945 (URSchsf-14) with 5.5/15 for a tied 14th-15th
place. He improved the next year, also at Leningrad (URSchsf-15) with
9.5/18, but this was not good enough to advance. In the semi-final at
Vilnius 1949 (URSchsf-17), he again failed to move on with a tied
7th-8th place, at 9/17, with the winners being Furman, Vladas Mikenas,
and Alexei Sokolsky. He improved at Tula 1950 (URSchsf-18) with 8/15
for a tied 5th-7th place, but still fell short, as the winners were
Averbakh and Georgi Boriskenko. At P=E4rnu 1947, he struggled with 4/13,
far behind winner Paul Keres. Being Moscow champion helped earn him a
place on the Moscow side for the home-and-home match series with
Budapest in 1949. This was one of the very best results of his career,
as he scored a powerful 12/16, good for a 2732 performance, according
to chessmetrics.com. Chessmetrics ranks Simagin as #21 in the world
from December 1946 to February 1947, and calculates his peak rating at
2650 in October 1949. However, this data seems to be missing several
of his tournament results. In the Moscow Championship of 1949, he made
8.5/15 for 4th place, behind winner Averbakh. In the Moscow
Championship of 1950, he scored 8/15 for 5th place, behind winners
Averbakh and Alexander Chistiakov.
Simagin, along with Vladimir Makogonov, trained Vasily Smyslov for
several years, leading to his World Championship title in 1957. His
best results were a tied 2nd place at Sarajevo 1963, and a tied 1st
place at Sochi 1967. Simagin had a bold and imaginitive playing style,
and he was an expert tactician. His style has been compared to both
Richard Reti and Bent Larsen. He was a profound originator in the
openings. Examples of his contributions include the Accelerated Dragon
variation in the Sicilian Defence, the Grunfeld Defence, the Simagin
variation of the Nimzo-Indian Defence (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e3
0-0 5.Nge2 d5 6.a3 Bd6), and Simagin's Defence (1.e4 d6 2.d4 c6 3.Nf3
Bg4). Simagin was most highly regarded by his peers. Bronstein had
some very complimentary words in his acclaimed book The Sorcerer's
Apprentice (co-author Tom Furstenberg). Mikhail Botvinnik, who devoted
many pioneering years to computer chess research, relied on Simagin's
assistance in 1966 to publish a preview article from his forthcoming
book Algorithm of Chess in the Bulletin of the Central Chess Club, of
which Simagin was editor. The article's publication had first met with
resistance, so Botvinnik was grateful, and the article was a success.
The Russian chess writer and master Lev Khariton wrote a touching
tribute to Simagin on his chesscircle.net site. Khariton had met
Simagin when he was still a young junior player, and trained in a
group setting with him. Khariton quotes Simagin as saying: "In chess,
as in life, all the time you have to overcome obstacles. When you play
a game, your opponent with each move sets up barriers before you, the
barriers you have to overcome. It seems that you have overcome one
barrier, but at his next move you encounter another obstacle to
overcome. And it goes on all the time, and he appeared in the
following poem by John Donne."
He then recited the poem, which we had to copy out and memorise.
He was a very good teacher, but he often went off on TANGENTS.
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Date: 06 Oct 2008 13:37:04
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Chess quiz question
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On Oct 6, 2:21 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 6, 12:23 am, Offramp <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ah, yes -- "Earth'S IMAGINed corners." I tried reading down the
> first letter of each line for a hidden name, and got nothing, but it
> did not occur to me treat the whole poem like a word search puzzle.
> Clever. And it got me reading Donne for the first time since high
> school, and made me realize where sci-fi author Philip Jose Farmer got
> the title for one of his novels.
And I have just acquired the novel, following your advice.
I have never heard of him - Farmer - and I have a few other books to
read. But hopefully I'll be able to read it soon.
Thank you Taylor.
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Date: 06 Oct 2008 06:21:03
From:
Subject: Re: Chess quiz question
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On Oct 6, 12:23=A0am, Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 5, 11:41 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 5, 2:17 pm, "[email protected]"
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Which famous chess player appears in John Donne's poem "At the Round
> > > Earth's Imagined Corners"?
>
> > =A0 If this is the poem you had in mind, I fail to see where any
> > particular human person is mentioned, let alone a chess player:
>
> > AT the round earths imagin'd corners, blow
> > Your trumpets, Angells, and arise, arise
> > From death, you numberlesse infinities
> > Of soules, and to your scattred bodies goe,
> > All whom the flood did, and fire shall o'erthrow,
> > All whom warre, dearth, age, agues, tyrannies,
> > Despaire, law, chance, hath slaine, and you whose eyes,
> > Shall behold God, and never tast deaths woe.
> > But let them sleepe, Lord, and mee mourne a space,
> > For, if above all these, my sinnes abound,
> > 'Tis late to aske abundance of thy grace,
> > When wee are there; here on this lowly ground,
> > Teach mee how to repent; for that's as good
> > As if thou'hadst seal'd my pardon, with thy blood.
>
> > =A0 Furthermore, through Donne's lifetime (1572-1631), there had been
> > very few famous chess players, at least in Europe. Ruy L=F3pez
> > (1530?-1580?) and Giacchino Greco (1600-1634) are about the only ones
> > that come to mind offhand.
> > =A0 So whom did you have in mind?
>
> Actually, this was my question - I used someone else's computer.
> No chess player is mentioned. He *appears* in the first line.
> And his name is....
> (it's a bit farther down....)
>
> Vladimir Simagin.
> Greetings to all! Keep up your efforts!
Ah, yes -- "Earth'S IMAGINed corners." I tried reading down the
first letter of each line for a hidden name, and got nothing, but it
did not occur to me treat the whole poem like a word search puzzle.
Clever. And it got me reading Donne for the first time since high
school, and made me realize where sci-fi author Philip Jose Farmer got
the title for one of his novels.
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Date: 05 Oct 2008 21:23:50
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Chess quiz question
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On Oct 5, 11:41 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 5, 2:17 pm, "[email protected]"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Which famous chess player appears in John Donne's poem "At the Round
> > Earth's Imagined Corners"?
>
> If this is the poem you had in mind, I fail to see where any
> particular human person is mentioned, let alone a chess player:
>
> AT the round earths imagin'd corners, blow
> Your trumpets, Angells, and arise, arise
> From death, you numberlesse infinities
> Of soules, and to your scattred bodies goe,
> All whom the flood did, and fire shall o'erthrow,
> All whom warre, dearth, age, agues, tyrannies,
> Despaire, law, chance, hath slaine, and you whose eyes,
> Shall behold God, and never tast deaths woe.
> But let them sleepe, Lord, and mee mourne a space,
> For, if above all these, my sinnes abound,
> 'Tis late to aske abundance of thy grace,
> When wee are there; here on this lowly ground,
> Teach mee how to repent; for that's as good
> As if thou'hadst seal'd my pardon, with thy blood.
>
> Furthermore, through Donne's lifetime (1572-1631), there had been
> very few famous chess players, at least in Europe. Ruy L=F3pez
> (1530?-1580?) and Giacchino Greco (1600-1634) are about the only ones
> that come to mind offhand.
> So whom did you have in mind?
Actually, this was my question - I used someone else's computer.
No chess player is mentioned. He *appears* in the first line.
And his name is....
(it's a bit farther down....)
Vladimir Simagin.
Greetings to all! Keep up your efforts!
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Date: 06 Oct 2008 16:52:07
From: John Salerno
Subject: Re: Chess quiz question
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"Offramp" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:b2a2afb4-e351-45e8-8f10-bfefd5dd7d56@t65g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Actually, this was my question - I used someone else's computer.
No chess player is mentioned. He *appears* in the first line.
And his name is....
(it's a bit farther down....)
Interesting. Was it intentional?
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Date: 05 Oct 2008 15:41:45
From:
Subject: Re: Chess quiz question
|
On Oct 5, 2:17=A0pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected] > wrote:
> Which famous chess player appears in John Donne's poem "At the Round
> Earth's Imagined Corners"?
If this is the poem you had in mind, I fail to see where any
particular human person is mentioned, let alone a chess player:
AT the round earths imagin'd corners, blow
Your trumpets, Angells, and arise, arise
From death, you numberlesse infinities
Of soules, and to your scattred bodies goe,
All whom the flood did, and fire shall o'erthrow,
All whom warre, dearth, age, agues, tyrannies,
Despaire, law, chance, hath slaine, and you whose eyes,
Shall behold God, and never tast deaths woe.
But let them sleepe, Lord, and mee mourne a space,
For, if above all these, my sinnes abound,
'Tis late to aske abundance of thy grace,
When wee are there; here on this lowly ground,
Teach mee how to repent; for that's as good
As if thou'hadst seal'd my pardon, with thy blood.
Furthermore, through Donne's lifetime (1572-1631), there had been
very few famous chess players, at least in Europe. Ruy L=F3pez
(1530?-1580?) and Giacchino Greco (1600-1634) are about the only ones
that come to mind offhand.
So whom did you have in mind?
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