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Main
Date: 28 Oct 2007 22:21:41
From: Rich Hutnik
Subject: Chess magic trick
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http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=XaODx-alm4k
Derron Brown, poor chess player, beats 9 chess masters.
- Rich
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Date: 30 Oct 2007 00:41:07
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: Chess magic trick
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Taylor Kingston wrote:
>If, however, as Brown seemed to insist, no other trickery was
>involved, he beat Chan on his own. One would not necessarily have to
>be a very strong player to hold a post such as club president. I've
>belonged to clubs where the president was well below average in
>playing skill, but he held the post because he did the administrative
>work well, or because he supplied the club's quarters, or various
>other reasons unrelated to OTB skill.
This reminds me of the old saying about the four ways to
be part of a local rock band and never be kicked out:
[1] Be a good musician.
[2] Own a good practice room.
[3] Own a PA system.
[4] Own a van.
Did Derren Brown -- a professional illusionist / magician -- actually
insist that "no other trickery was involved?" I find that hard to believe.
--
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/ >
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Date: 30 Oct 2007 11:08:13
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Chess magic trick
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Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/ > wrote:
> Did Derren Brown -- a professional illusionist / magician --
> actually insist that "no other trickery was involved?" I find that
> hard to believe.
He claims that he's `dishonest but honest about his dishonesty', i.e.,
that he cheats like a Professor of Cheating from Cheating College,
Oxford, but that he admits to it afterwards. My guess is that this is
just a further trick to get the audience to trust him.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Fluorescent Accelerated Dictator (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a totalitarian leader but
it's twice as fast and it'll hurt
your eyes!
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Date: 30 Oct 2007 11:16:36
From: Nick Cramer
Subject: Re: Chess magic trick
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David Richerby <[email protected] > wrote:
> Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote:
> > Did Derren Brown -- a professional illusionist / magician --
> > actually insist that "no other trickery was involved?" I find that
> > hard to believe.
>
> He claims that he's `dishonest but honest about his dishonesty', i.e.,
> that he cheats like a Professor of Cheating from Cheating College,
> Oxford, but that he admits to it afterwards. My guess is that this is
> just a further trick to get the audience to trust him.
Sounds like a politician to me!
--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~
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Date: 30 Oct 2007 18:35:49
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: Chess magic trick
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Nick Cramer wrote:
>
>David Richerby <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote:
>>
>>> Did Derren Brown -- a professional illusionist / magician --
>>> actually insist that "no other trickery was involved?" I find that
>>> hard to believe.
>>
>> He claims that he's `dishonest but honest about his dishonesty', i.e.,
>> that he cheats like a Professor of Cheating from Cheating College,
>> Oxford, but that he admits to it afterwards. My guess is that this is
>> just a further trick to get the audience to trust him.
>
>Sounds like a politician to me!
Not really. A politician never admits anything unless he has
already been exposed. The description sounds like a magician
to me.
--
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/ >
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Date: 29 Oct 2007 09:01:23
From: Taylor Kingston
Subject: Re: Chess magic trick
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On Oct 29, 10:01 am, Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
> The method used is the same as that used in the old fable about a man
> drawing at correspondence chess playing Alekhine/Lasker and Capablanca.
I knew that as soon as I saw that (a) Brown's opponents were arrayed
in a circle, with Brown walking around the _outside_, instead of
being inside as is normal in a simul, (b) Brown played Black in some
games, White in others, instead of White only as is normal in a simul,
and (c) he first went around the circle without replying to the white
moves, instead of replying immediately as is normal in a simul. To
someone familiar with chess literature, this was as clear a giveaway
as seeing the trap door through which the disappearing lady
disappears.
If, however, as Brown seemed to insist, no other trickery was
involved, he beat Chan on his own. One would not necessarily have to
be a very strong player to hold a post such as club president. I've
belonged to clubs where the president was well below average in
playing skill, but he held the post because he did the administrative
work well, or because he supplied the club's quarters, or various
other reasons unrelated to OTB skill.
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Date: 29 Oct 2007 07:21:41
From: Rich Hutnik
Subject: Re: Chess magic trick
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On Oct 29, 10:01 am, Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 29, 11:24 am, David Richerby <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Rich Hutnik <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=XaODx-alm4k
>
> > > Derron Brown, poor chess player, beats 9 chess masters.
>
> > No he doesn't. The ninth player is the president of a university
> > chess club. From his position, one imagines that he must be a very
> > strong player but, in fact, that doesn't follow -- it just means that
> > he's a student who's enthusiastic about chess.
>
> > I'll not say anything about the rest of it as I don't want to give
> > spoilers to anyone who hasn't seen this before.
>
> I think it means that Brown is not a bad chess player; the prez can't
> be a complete jobbernowl at chess, can he?
> The method used is the same as that used in the old fable about a man
> drawing at correspondence chess playing Alekhine/Lasker and Capablanca.
Also, he revealed it, so it must be something known at least in chess
circles. He still had to play one game. The real trick here anyhow,
was him predicting the number of pieces that would be left by all his
opponents. Note that he didn't reveal how that was done.
- Rich
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Date: 31 Oct 2007 18:46:02
From: Ian Burton
Subject: Re: Chess magic trick
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"Rich Hutnik" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Oct 29, 10:01 am, Offramp <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Oct 29, 11:24 am, David Richerby <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Rich Hutnik <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > >http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=XaODx-alm4k
>>
>> > > Derron Brown, poor chess player, beats 9 chess masters.
>>
>> > No he doesn't. The ninth player is the president of a university
>> > chess club. From his position, one imagines that he must be a very
>> > strong player but, in fact, that doesn't follow -- it just means that
>> > he's a student who's enthusiastic about chess.
>>
>> > I'll not say anything about the rest of it as I don't want to give
>> > spoilers to anyone who hasn't seen this before.
>>
>> I think it means that Brown is not a bad chess player; the prez can't
>> be a complete jobbernowl at chess, can he?
>> The method used is the same as that used in the old fable about a man
>> drawing at correspondence chess playing Alekhine/Lasker and Capablanca.
>
> Also, he revealed it, so it must be something known at least in chess
> circles. He still had to play one game. The real trick here anyhow,
> was him predicting the number of pieces that would be left by all his
> opponents. Note that he didn't reveal how that was done.
>
> - Rich
The predication is the only trick here, one that can be done no doubt by any
illusionist, and one that has nothing at all to do with chess. The chess
"track," as has been noted, is old hat to veteran chess players. Most
disappointing, alas, but thank you for posting.
--
Ian Burton
(Please reply to the Newsgroup)
>
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Date: 29 Oct 2007 15:28:17
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Chess magic trick
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Rich Hutnik <[email protected] > wrote:
> Offramp <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I think it means that Brown is not a bad chess player; the prez
>> can't be a complete jobbernowl at chess, can he? The method used
>> is the same as that used in the old fable about a man drawing at
>> correspondence chess playing Alekhine/Lasker and Capablanca.
>
> Also, he revealed it, so it must be something known at least in
> chess circles.
It's very well known to chess players, yes -- see the ChessBase
article I referenced elsewhere in the thread.
> He still had to play one game.
Yes -- I'm not sure what he did, there.
> The real trick here anyhow, was him predicting the number of pieces
> that would be left by all his opponents. Note that he didn't reveal
> how that was done.
One of the other links I posted was an account by Graham Lee, the
holder of the envelope. He was convinced that it had been switched
and identified the point at which it happened. Distract and switch is
the usual method by which envelopes held by people turn out to contain
exactly what the illusionist needs.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Devil Sword (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ razor-sharp blade that's possessed
by Satan!
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Date: 29 Oct 2007 14:01:52
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Chess magic trick
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On Oct 29, 11:24 am, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
> Rich Hutnik <[email protected]> wrote:
> >http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=XaODx-alm4k
>
> > Derron Brown, poor chess player, beats 9 chess masters.
>
> No he doesn't. The ninth player is the president of a university
> chess club. From his position, one imagines that he must be a very
> strong player but, in fact, that doesn't follow -- it just means that
> he's a student who's enthusiastic about chess.
>
> I'll not say anything about the rest of it as I don't want to give
> spoilers to anyone who hasn't seen this before.
I think it means that Brown is not a bad chess player; the prez can't
be a complete jobbernowl at chess, can he?
The method used is the same as that used in the old fable about a man
drawing at correspondence chess playing Alekhine/Lasker and Capablanca.
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Date: 29 Oct 2007 14:56:36
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Chess magic trick
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Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
> David Richerby <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Rich Hutnik <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Derron Brown, poor chess player, beats 9 chess masters.
>>
>> No he doesn't. The ninth player is the president of a university
>> chess club. From his position, one imagines that he must be a very
>> strong player but, in fact, that doesn't follow -- it just means
>> that he's a student who's enthusiastic about chess.
>
> I think it means that Brown is not a bad chess player; the prez
> can't be a complete jobbernowl at chess, can he?
Brown's opponents were GMs John Emms, Julian Hodgson, Jonathan Levitt
and Chris Ward; IM Paul Littlewood; FMs Nathan Alfred, Graham Lee and
Desmond Tan; and RObert Chan, then president of King's College London
chess club. According to one of Chessbase's correspondents[1] he's a
2200-strength player; however, Chan has neither a FIDE nor BCF/ECF
rating (as far as I can see) so I'm not sure what's going on, here.
There's an interesting account of the event, from FM Graham Lee, at
[3]. Apparently, they'd all realised it was going to be an excercise
in move duplication before the games started. I've no idea how he
beat Chan, though.
I also find it quite amusing that if you Google for "derren brown
chess", you get all kinds of fantastical descriptions of his opponents
such as `nine world chess champions and chess grandmasters'. (Three
of his opponents are, at least, former British champions.)
Dave.
[1] http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=1610
[2] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0558131/combined
[3] http://basic1.easily.co.uk/01201D/01B006/halesontv.htm
--
David Richerby Poisonous Love Pants (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a well-tailored pair of trousers that
you can share with someone special
but it'll kill you in seconds!
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Date: 29 Oct 2007 15:06:18
From: David Richerby
Subject: Richerby is hypocrite and liar! (was Re: Chess magic trick)
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David Richerby <[email protected] > wrote:
> There's an interesting account of the event, from FM Graham Lee.
> Apparently, they'd all realised [how he was going to do it] before
> the games started. I've no idea how he beat Chan, though.
Oops. So much for my claim that I wasn't going to give spoilers. :-)
Dave.
--
David Richerby Chocolate Dish (TM): it's like a fine
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ ceramic dish that's made of chocolate!
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Date: 29 Oct 2007 11:24:44
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Chess magic trick
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Rich Hutnik <[email protected] > wrote:
> http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=XaODx-alm4k
>
> Derron Brown, poor chess player, beats 9 chess masters.
No he doesn't. The ninth player is the president of a university
chess club. From his position, one imagines that he must be a very
strong player but, in fact, that doesn't follow -- it just means that
he's a student who's enthusiastic about chess.
I'll not say anything about the rest of it as I don't want to give
spoilers to anyone who hasn't seen this before.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Hungry Book (TM): it's like a romantic
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ novel but it'll eat you!
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