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Date: 29 Oct 2008 07:27:10
From:
Subject: Anand-Kramnik game 11
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In game 11 of the match we have a Najdorf Sicilian, in pleasant
contrast to the Slavs and Nimzo-Indians of earlier games:
http://www.chesscafe.com/wc2008/client.html
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Date: 30 Oct 2008 12:53:12
From: William Hyde
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11 drawn -- Anand wins the match
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On Oct 30, 1:24=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 30, 12:49=A0pm, William Hyde <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 29, 1:52=A0pm, zdrakec <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > 6=BD - 4=BD : a score worthy of a candidate's semifinal, not a world
> > > championship. If the match had been best of 24, this game might have
> > > been played out a bit more thoroughly; and the meat of the struggle
> > > still to come. Congrats to Anand, but it's a pity the match is so
> > > short.
>
> > I agree completely. =A0These short matches are absurd.
>
> =A0 The problem, if I understand correctly, is finding sponsors willing
> to pay for longer matches. No one wants to shell out enough for 24 or
> more games.
The less prestigious the event, the less people will pay for it. The
disarray in the world chess title has cost chess badly in terms of
prestige, but short matches won't bring that back. The winner of a
short match may carry the title of world champion, but personally, I
don't regard such winners in quite the same way as I regarded the
winners of the old FIDE 24 game matches. But at least the Kalmykian
KO is no longer attached to the world title.
Of course, the "you only exist to be ripped off" attitude players have
taken to sponsors for some time now (Anand-Kasparov, Kasparov-Kramnik,
and the Kasparov/Intel fiasco) doesn't help either. I've just been
looking over the games from Kortchnoi-Karpov I. Not a lot of short
draws there, despite length of the match and comparatively low per
game pay ($560k for the match, I think. After inflation, maybe not
that much less than for Anand Kramnik, but for 32 games)..
William Hyde
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Date: 30 Oct 2008 10:24:37
From:
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11 drawn -- Anand wins the match
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On Oct 30, 12:49=A0pm, William Hyde <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 29, 1:52=A0pm, zdrakec <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > 6=BD - 4=BD : a score worthy of a candidate's semifinal, not a world
> > championship. If the match had been best of 24, this game might have
> > been played out a bit more thoroughly; and the meat of the struggle
> > still to come. Congrats to Anand, but it's a pity the match is so
> > short.
>
> I agree completely. =A0These short matches are absurd.
The problem, if I understand correctly, is finding sponsors willing
to pay for longer matches. No one wants to shell out enough for 24 or
more games.
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Date: 30 Oct 2008 09:49:17
From: William Hyde
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11 drawn -- Anand wins the match
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On Oct 29, 1:52=A0pm, zdrakec <[email protected] > wrote:
> 6=BD - 4=BD : a score worthy of a candidate's semifinal, not a world
> championship. If the match had been best of 24, this game might have
> been played out a bit more thoroughly; and the meat of the struggle
> still to come. Congrats to Anand, but it's a pity the match is so
> short.
I agree completely. These short matches are absurd.
William Hyde
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 10:52:35
From: zdrakec
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11 drawn -- Anand wins the match
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> =A0 Well, waddya know. They agreed to a draw at move 24. Kramnik must
> not have felt like fighting any longer. So that, as they say, is that.
> My congratulations to Viswanathan Anand
6=BD - 4=BD : a score worthy of a candidate's semifinal, not a world
championship. If the match had been best of 24, this game might have
been played out a bit more thoroughly; and the meat of the struggle
still to come. Congrats to Anand, but it's a pity the match is so
short.
Regards,
zdrakec
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 10:27:59
From:
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
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On Oct 29, 1:12=A0pm, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 29, 10:06=A0pm, EJAY <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > It is now official.Anand draws (WINS the Match !!!)
>
> So now Anand is World Champion? Or any other match left?
Anand already was World Champion. Kramnik was the challenger in this
match. By winning the match Anand retains the title.
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 10:12:51
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
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On Oct 29, 10:06=A0pm, EJAY <[email protected] > wrote:
> It is now official.Anand draws (WINS the Match !!!)
So now Anand is World Champion? Or any other match left?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 10:06:42
From: EJAY
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
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It is now official.Anand draws (WINS the Match !!!)
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Date: 30 Oct 2008 06:31:50
From:
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
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On Oct 30, 3:32=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 30, 10:33=A0am, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
>
> > Who offered the draw ? =A0NO WAY would i have accepted a draw in this g=
ame
> > , i would have to be checkmated ..Maybe in the last game i mite draw bu=
t
> > he still had a chance to tie it up with a win in this game ..
> > =A0 If Kramnik offered the draw then that is really , really bad in my
> > eyes ....
>
> Both sides agree draw after Anand offered Draw.
Sanny as usual is wrong. As one can read here:
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3D4988
it was Kramnik who offered the draw.
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Date: 30 Oct 2008 08:45:19
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
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Thanks for that website it was a interesting read and after see what the
GM's say about the game i guess Kramnik did not have any winning chances
BUT still for me i would have rather lost this game outright
.Checkmated ..I mite have traded my bishop for his knight ..
I would not have drawn in this game..
Now in the last game if i lost this game i mite accept or offer a
draw since the match is over .
I would have did in this game what the Japanese did in WW2 and BANSI or
KAMIKAZE MYSELF .....ha ha......
Id rather go down fighting to the end in a match.
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Date: 30 Oct 2008 00:32:50
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
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On Oct 30, 10:33=A0am, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> Who offered the draw ? =A0NO WAY would i have accepted a draw in this gam=
e
> , i would have to be checkmated ..Maybe in the last game i mite draw but
> he still had a chance to tie it up with a win in this game ..
> =A0 If Kramnik offered the draw then that is really , really bad in my
> eyes ....
Both sides agree draw after Anand offered Draw.
Draw can only take place when both players agree. If any player thinks
he can win then he can continue the game.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 22:33:05
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
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Who offered the draw ? NO WAY would i have accepted a draw in this game
, i would have to be checkmated ..Maybe in the last game i mite draw but
he still had a chance to tie it up with a win in this game ..
If Kramnik offered the draw then that is really , really bad in my
eyes ....
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 10:04:50
From: EJAY
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
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On Oct 29, 11:55=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 29, 12:44=A0pm, EJAY <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > that should be easy enough.- Hard to disagree with you now... So no=
w you agree with me.
>
> > > 19. Nxc8 Kf8
> > > Now after Bishop taken by knight.
>
> > > Anand can take the f5 pawn. and be 1 pawn up.
>
> > > 20. Qxf5
>
> > > Now Anand being 1 pawn up and Blacks weak King position can easily wi=
n
> > > the game.
>
> > > Bye
> > > Sanny
>
> > Kramnik is making a few checks which will not have a good chance of
> > sucess.Sanny said it could be easy.Kramnik's weak King will be the
> > end.He may have a couple of cheapo threats but I think I could defend
> > the position for white...
>
> =A0 It surprised me that Kramnik played 16...fxe4 instead of 16...Be6.
> Now, after 21.Nc1, it looks like K has no good way to avoid an
> exchange of queens, after which we go into a rather drawish-looking
> opposite-color-bishops situation, where Kramnik would seem to be in
> little danger of losing, but he has virtually no chance to win, unless
> he can somehow capitalize soon on A's undeveloped kingside. Mind you,
> this just off-the-top-of-my-head stuff, with a little Frtiz8
> assistance, so I could well be proven wrong.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Looks like I have to amend my statements again.ith the queens off the
board Kramnik's Kings position does not look as critical as it did a
few moves ago.Kramnik due to the match situation will press on.Anand
could capitalize if Kramnik tries to do too much.I think Anand will be
satified to sit on the position to clinch the Title.All Anand has to
do is activate his bishop and I see no way for kramnik to improve his
position.16...Be6 would have been interesting.
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 10:03:15
From:
Subject: Anand-Kramnik game 11 drawn -- Anand wins the match
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On Oct 29, 12:55=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 29, 12:44=A0pm, EJAY <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > that should be easy enough.- Hard to disagree with you now... So no=
w you agree with me.
>
> > > 19. Nxc8 Kf8
> > > Now after Bishop taken by knight.
>
> > > Anand can take the f5 pawn. and be 1 pawn up.
>
> > > 20. Qxf5
>
> > > Now Anand being 1 pawn up and Blacks weak King position can easily wi=
n
> > > the game.
>
> > > Bye
> > > Sanny
>
> > Kramnik is making a few checks which will not have a good chance of
> > sucess.Sanny said it could be easy.Kramnik's weak King will be the
> > end.He may have a couple of cheapo threats but I think I could defend
> > the position for white...
>
> =A0 It surprised me that Kramnik played 16...fxe4 instead of 16...Be6.
> Now, after 21.Nc1, it looks like K has no good way to avoid an
> exchange of queens, after which we go into a rather drawish-looking
> opposite-color-bishops situation, where Kramnik would seem to be in
> little danger of losing, but he has virtually no chance to win, unless
> he can somehow capitalize soon on A's undeveloped kingside. Mind you,
> this just off-the-top-of-my-head stuff, with a little Frtiz8
> assistance, so I could well be proven wrong
Well, waddya know. They agreed to a draw at move 24. Kramnik must
not have felt like fighting any longer. So that, as they say, is that.
My congratulations to Viswanathan Anand.
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 10:01:43
From: Sanny
Subject: Game Drawn
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On Oct 29, 9:55=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 29, 12:44=A0pm, EJAY <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > that should be easy enough.- Hard to disagree with you now... So no=
w you agree with me.
>
> > > 19. Nxc8 Kf8
> > > Now after Bishop taken by knight.
>
> > > Anand can take the f5 pawn. and be 1 pawn up.
>
> > > 20. Qxf5
>
> > > Now Anand being 1 pawn up and Blacks weak King position can easily wi=
n
> > > the game.
>
> > > Bye
> > > Sanny
>
> > Kramnik is making a few checks which will not have a good chance of
> > sucess.Sanny said it could be easy.Kramnik's weak King will be the
> > end.He may have a couple of cheapo threats but I think I could defend
> > the position for white...
>
> =A0 It surprised me that Kramnik played 16...fxe4 instead of 16...Be6.
> Now, after 21.Nc1, it looks like K has no good way to avoid an
> exchange of queens, after which we go into a rather drawish-looking
> opposite-color-bishops situation, where Kramnik would seem to be in
> little danger of losing, but he has virtually no chance to win, unless
> he can somehow capitalize soon on A's undeveloped kingside. Mind you,
> this just off-the-top-of-my-head stuff, with a little Frtiz8
> assistance, so I could well be proven wrong.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
GAME DRAWN
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 09:55:00
From:
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
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On Oct 29, 12:44=A0pm, EJAY <[email protected] > wrote:
> > > that should be easy enough.- Hard to disagree with you now... So now =
you agree with me.
>
> > 19. Nxc8 Kf8
> > Now after Bishop taken by knight.
>
> > Anand can take the f5 pawn. and be 1 pawn up.
>
> > 20. Qxf5
>
> > Now Anand being 1 pawn up and Blacks weak King position can easily win
> > the game.
>
> > Bye
> > Sanny
>
> Kramnik is making a few checks which will not have a good chance of
> sucess.Sanny said it could be easy.Kramnik's weak King will be the
> end.He may have a couple of cheapo threats but I think I could defend
> the position for white...
It surprised me that Kramnik played 16...fxe4 instead of 16...Be6.
Now, after 21.Nc1, it looks like K has no good way to avoid an
exchange of queens, after which we go into a rather drawish-looking
opposite-color-bishops situation, where Kramnik would seem to be in
little danger of losing, but he has virtually no chance to win, unless
he can somehow capitalize soon on A's undeveloped kingside. Mind you,
this just off-the-top-of-my-head stuff, with a little Frtiz8
assistance, so I could well be proven wrong.
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 09:44:44
From: EJAY
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
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> > that should be easy enough.- Hard to disagree with you now... So now you agree with me.
>
> 19. Nxc8 Kf8
> Now after Bishop taken by knight.
>
> Anand can take the f5 pawn. and be 1 pawn up.
>
> 20. Qxf5
>
> Now Anand being 1 pawn up and Blacks weak King position can easily win
> the game.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
Kramnik is making a few checks which will not have a good chance of
sucess.Sanny said it could be easy.Kramnik's weak King will be the
end.He may have a couple of cheapo threats but I think I could defend
the position for white...
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 09:35:25
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
|
> > > Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
ok
> After18...Kf8 Kramnik's King is not looking so good.The counterplay I
> mentioned earlier appears to be limited for Kramnik.Kramnik's weak f7
> square is going to haunt him I suspect.At this point I would say today
> maybe the day.Anand only has to keep the bishop on g7 in check and
> that should be easy enough.- Hide quoted text -
So now you agree with me.
19. Nxc8 Kf8
Now after Bishop taken by knight.
Anand can take the f5 pawn. and be 1 pawn up.
20. Qxf5
Now Anand being 1 pawn up and Blacks weak King position can easily win
the game.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 09:33:13
From:
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
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On Oct 29, 12:06=A0pm, EJAY <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 29, 10:04=A0am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 29, 7:27=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > =A0 In game 11 of the match we have a Najdorf Sicilian, in pleasant
> > > contrast to the Slavs and Nimzo-Indians of earlier games:
>
> > Looks like Anand will win this game.
>
> > Till now only 12 moves have been played.
>
> > 12. 0-0-0 exf5
>
> > I think the 13th move by anand will be exf5
>
> > 13. exf5
>
> > Anand has already Chastled and Kramnik has double Pawn So its a
> > positive position for anand.
>
> > So I think Anand will win this game easily.
>
> > Bye
> > Sanny
>
> > Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> I don't think the game is that simple.For the tripled pawns ( I am
> sure will be doubled soon) Kramnik will have a nice diagonal for his
> dark squared bishop. I think there is a lot of counterplay.To me Anand
> has to find a plan to coordinate his pieces.I don't see this as an
> easy win for Anand.He has to be careful. I also suspect that this is a
> prepared line by Kramnik.Now after 14 moves Rd5 If the queens come off
> the board at some point it will be tough for Kramnik.You know Sanny
> perhaps your right that Anand has the edge as he his threatening
> (after Qg3) to capture the d6 pawn and bishop on g7
Whether this is one of Kramnik's prepared lines or not, it seems to
be quite rare in high-level play, at least through 2005, the last year
my database has. The position through Black's 11th move has occurred
at least twice before, in Kavalek-Chandler, Bundesliga, 1982, and
Cullip-Le Quang, Oakham 1992. The former continued 12.fxe6, while the
latter continued as Anand has, with 12.0-0-0, but Black replied
12...Bd7.
Going back a couple of moves, the position after 10.Qd3 was seen in
Litvinov-Yuferov, Minsk Ch 1972. That continued 10...Bh6.
The most recent game I have with this line is Velasquez-Leitao,
Santiago 2004. After 10...Nc6 that proceeded 11.0-0-0 Bh6+ 12.Kb1
Nxd4. So it's hard to tell what if any prepared TNs may be involved
here, for either player.
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 09:29:15
From: EJAY
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
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On Oct 29, 11:06=A0am, EJAY <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 29, 10:04=A0am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 29, 7:27=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > =A0 In game 11 of the match we have a Najdorf Sicilian, in pleasant
> > > contrast to the Slavs and Nimzo-Indians of earlier games:
>
> > Looks like Anand will win this game.
>
> > Till now only 12 moves have been played.
>
> > 12. 0-0-0 exf5
>
> > I think the 13th move by anand will be exf5
>
> > 13. exf5
>
> > Anand has already Chastled and Kramnik has double Pawn So its a
> > positive position for anand.
>
> > So I think Anand will win this game easily.
>
> > Bye
> > Sanny
>
> > Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> I don't think the game is that simple.For the tripled pawns ( I am
> sure will be doubled soon) Kramnik will have a nice diagonal for his
> dark squared bishop. I think there is a lot of counterplay.To me Anand
> has to find a plan to coordinate his pieces.I don't see this as an
> easy win for Anand.He has to be careful. I also suspect that this is a
> prepared line by Kramnik.Now after 14 moves Rd5 If the queens come off
> the board at some point it will be tough for Kramnik.You know Sanny
> perhaps your right that Anand has the edge as he his threatening
> (after Qg3) to capture the d6 pawn and bishop on g7- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
After18...Kf8 Kramnik's King is not looking so good.The counterplay I
mentioned earlier appears to be limited for Kramnik.Kramnik's weak f7
square is going to haunt him I suspect.At this point I would say today
maybe the day.Anand only has to keep the bishop on g7 in check and
that should be easy enough.
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 09:06:38
From: EJAY
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
|
On Oct 29, 10:04=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 29, 7:27=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > =A0 In game 11 of the match we have a Najdorf Sicilian, in pleasant
> > contrast to the Slavs and Nimzo-Indians of earlier games:
>
> Looks like Anand will win this game.
>
> Till now only 12 moves have been played.
>
> 12. 0-0-0 exf5
>
> I think the 13th move by anand will be exf5
>
> 13. exf5
>
> Anand has already Chastled and Kramnik has double Pawn So its a
> positive position for anand.
>
> So I think Anand will win this game easily.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
I don't think the game is that simple.For the tripled pawns ( I am
sure will be doubled soon) Kramnik will have a nice diagonal for his
dark squared bishop. I think there is a lot of counterplay.To me Anand
has to find a plan to coordinate his pieces.I don't see this as an
easy win for Anand.He has to be careful. I also suspect that this is a
prepared line by Kramnik.Now after 14 moves Rd5 If the queens come off
the board at some point it will be tough for Kramnik.You know Sanny
perhaps your right that Anand has the edge as he his threatening
(after Qg3) to capture the d6 pawn and bishop on g7
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Date: 29 Oct 2008 08:04:46
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Anand-Kramnik game 11
|
On Oct 29, 7:27=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> =A0 In game 11 of the match we have a Najdorf Sicilian, in pleasant
> contrast to the Slavs and Nimzo-Indians of earlier games:
Looks like Anand will win this game.
Till now only 12 moves have been played.
12. 0-0-0 exf5
I think the 13th move by anand will be exf5
13. exf5
Anand has already Chastled and Kramnik has double Pawn So its a
positive position for anand.
So I think Anand will win this game easily.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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