| |
Main
Date: 20 Jul 2008 13:42:58
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski
Subject: micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 by H.G.Muller
|
I have copied the source programs and
compiled micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 on
my Mac OS X. These cute C programs,
pearls of programming, can be copied
from:
http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/dwnldpage.html
or more precisely, from:
http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/umax4_0.c
and
http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/umax4_8.c
***
I ran these two programs in the so-called
terminal window. They printed the initial
position, they accepted my first move, they
printed the position after my first move, and
... nothing! How frustrated!
I'd like to enjoy these miniatures. Thus I would
appreciate any helpful comments, which would
result in a nice game of chess by the said two
programs.
Best regards,
Wlod
|
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2008 02:04:02
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: wh-micro-Max 4.0 / Re: micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 by H.G.Muller
|
On Jul 23, 2:10 pm, "Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)"
<[email protected] > wrote:
> This slows things down on my Mac too much
> for my taste. But 2e6 is still fast and
> leads to a stronger game.
In fact, I lost my first game against 4.0 at
2e6, but I drew the second one, which is still
stored in my terminal window. I had a pawn
advantage and a passed pawn in a 4 rook ending
but micro-Max succeeded in disconnecting my
rooks, by making them to defend the pawns, and
it connected its own rooks in a successful
attack on my king, hence a draw by repetition
(eternal check). If there is an interest, I can
extract the game from the terminal. Only my moves
are there explicitly, while micro-Max's moves
are given only as a new board diagram. Thus it
takes some work to get a score of the game.
Ok, let me know before I close that window or
overwite its buffer.
Regards,
W=B3od
|
| |
Date: 23 Jul 2008 14:10:31
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: wh-micro-Max 4.0 / Re: micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 by H.G.Muller
|
On Jul 23, 12:57 pm, "Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)"
<[email protected] > wrote:
> [...] the author of the programs, H.G.Muller,
> has written on TalkChess, one can increase his
> programs' constant 1e6 to make micor-Max search
> more nodes (positions). I may try a recompilation
> with 1e7 (ten times more nodes?).
This slows things down on my Mac too much
for my taste. But 2e6 is still fast and
leads to a stronger game.
Wlod
|
| |
Date: 23 Jul 2008 12:57:06
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: wh-micro-Max 4.0 / Re: micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 by H.G.Muller
|
On Jul 23, 9:13 am, "Guest" <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> MicroMax is surprisingly strong for just 2k of C code.
>
> As Mr. Muller points on in the forum, v4.8 is even stronger.
Indeed, micro-Max 4.8 is stronger than me.
Also, as the author of the programs, H.G.Muller
has written on TalkChess, one can increase his
programs' constant 1e6 to make micor-Max search
more nodes (positions). I may try a recompilation
with 1e7 (ten times more nodes?).
> It's a little awkward to play, though.
> Hard coded node count control, etc.
> That's why he also provides a larger
> xboard compatible version.
True, it's a bit primitive and hard to play
the way I did, using the simple screen
output + my magnetic chess set. But I am
poor when it comes to software installations,
and I don't know what works for mini-Mac OS X
(Apple sold me their lousy "Tiger" just a few
days before their new release, LAmpart or
something - Apple is so dishonest, in the
dirty spirit of con artist Steve Jobs; I am a bit
stuck with my Mac but in the future I will avoid
Apple like a disaster; I am already aiming at using
Ubuntu and a different computer, even if it's older
and loud, but it's not Apple :-).
> I think it's safe to say that MicroMax has
> become the modern day "TECH" benchmark program.
>
> Back in the 70's, Jim Gillogly came up with
> the idea of a very simple chess program that
> could be used as a benchmark program to compare
> hardware and other programs. A 'fixed point' in
> space, so to speak.
>
> It never really caught on, but in spite of its
> simplicity, it was stronger than many programs
> of the time. It wasn't very smart positionally,
> but it was pretty good at tactics. And since
> chess *is* tactics at its heart....
> The selective search programs and the "smart but slow"
> programs often had major problems against Tech.
>
> That's pretty much the way MicroMax is.
> In spite of its simplicity, it's > stronger than
> many programs. Only a little positional smarts,
> but it's very good tactically.
Actually, micro-Max 4.8 makes a good impression
on me even positionally--perhaps not perfect but
what do I know? :-) It plays slower than the super-
fast micro-Max 4.0 but still at a good pace.
> If your 'more sophisticated' program can't
> match MicroChess 4.8 at comparable time controls,
> then a programmer knows he has some work to do to
> reach minimal acceptable playing quality.
Hint-hint -- Sanny, r u listening???!!!!! :-)
Thank you for your historical comments,
and for all of them, regards,
Wlod
|
| | |
Date: 23 Jul 2008 17:49:56
From: Guest
Subject: Re: wh-micro-Max 4.0 / Re: micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 by H.G.Muller
|
"Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:be6211be-c0ba-48d9-8aba-817f58eadd1b@y22g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 23, 9:13 am, "Guest" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> MicroMax is surprisingly strong for just 2k of C code.
>>
>> As Mr. Muller points on in the forum, v4.8 is even stronger.
>
> Indeed, micro-Max 4.8 is stronger than me.
> Also, as the author of the programs, H.G.Muller
> has written on TalkChess, one can increase his
> programs' constant 1e6 to make micor-Max search
> more nodes (positions). I may try a recompilation
> with 1e7 (ten times more nodes?).
Right. That would be 10 million nodes, as opposed to 1 million nodes. 10
times as many nodes means 10 times the thinking time and stronger play.
Probably a ply and a half, so maybe 100-150 points higher. (You could check
some of the online rating lists if you are curious about v4.8's ratings.)
The program is too simplistic to have time control, so a simple node counter
is used instead.
That means adjusting the node counter and recompiling it to get whatever
time control you want.
>> It's a little awkward to play, though.
>> Hard coded node count control, etc.
>> That's why he also provides a larger
>> xboard compatible version.
>
> True, it's a bit primitive and hard to play
> the way I did, using the simple screen
> output + my magnetic chess set. But I am
> poor when it comes to software installations,
> and I don't know what works for mini-Mac OS X
I would assume there's a version of xBoard for the Mac, but I don't know any
details. Nor do I know if MicroMax would work properly with it. It was
probably designed more for Windows version since that's what Muller uses.
> (Apple sold me their lousy "Tiger" just a few
> days before their new release, LAmpart or
> something - Apple is so dishonest, in the
> dirty spirit of con artist Steve Jobs; I am a bit
Not as much as Bill G and the rest of the MicroShaft people.
> stuck with my Mac but in the future I will avoid
Hey, it could be worse... You could be using Vista. I have it on my laptop
and I can't stand it.
But there aren't any current XP drivers for it, and the various Linux
distro's (which I don't really like anyway) don't work completely with the
hardware.
So Vista is my only choice.
> Apple like a disaster; I am already aiming at using
> Ubuntu and a different computer, even if it's older
> and loud, but it's not Apple :-).
I've never used a Mac at all, so I don't know what it's like.
I did once think about getting a miniMac and running it as a home server.
Sit it on a shelf somewhere and let it run all the time.
>> That's pretty much the way MicroMax is.
>> In spite of its simplicity, it's > stronger than
>> many programs. Only a little positional smarts,
>> but it's very good tactically.
>
> Actually, micro-Max 4.8 makes a good impression
> on me even positionally--perhaps not perfect but
It doesn't have much positional knowledge. Most of what looks like
positional play is done for tactical reasons. That's why simple brute force
programs can do so well.
> what do I know? :-) It plays slower than the super-
> fast micro-Max 4.0 but still at a good pace.
>> If your 'more sophisticated' program can't
>> match MicroChess 4.8 at comparable time controls,
>> then a programmer knows he has some work to do to
>> reach minimal acceptable playing quality.
>
> Hint-hint -- Sanny, r u listening???!!!!! :-)
(chuckle)
MicroMax is an excellent example of the power of brute force on modern
hardware.
>
> Thank you for your historical comments,
> and for all of them, regards,
>
> Wlod
>
----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
|
| |
Date: 23 Jul 2008 02:41:24
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: wh-micro-Max 4.0 / Re: micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 by H.G.Muller
|
Finally I managed to play against
micro-Max. One needs to enter
[Enter] or [Return] key twice,
after making a move. This is a neat
feature because it allows you to either
make moves for a while for both sides
(by entering [Return] just once after
each move) or making micro-Max to play
against itself. Very nice!
Anyway, here is my first game against
that way under 2KB tiny monster. We were
well matched (I'd play better but the
lighting was so horrible that it turned off
my chess lightnings :-) - enjoy:
white: wh (Elo - cosmic or gastronomic)
black: micro-Max 4.0 (Elo - astronomic)
date: 2008-07-22/23
1.d2d4 c7c5
2.Ng1f3 cd
3.Nf3d4 Nb8c6
4.c2c4 Nc6d4
5.Qd1d4 d7d6
6.Nb1c3 e7e5
7.Qd4d1 Bc8e6
8.e2e4 Qd8b6
9.Bf1e2 Ng8f6
10.O-O O-O-O
11.b2b3 Kc8d7
12.a2a4 Bf8e7
13.a4a5 Qb6-b4
14.Nc3b5 Nf6e4
15.Be2f3 a7a6
16.Bf3e4 a6b5
17.Bc1a3 Qb4c3
18.Be4b7 b5c4
19.a5a6? Qc3b3
I could play 19.b3b4!
20.Qd1b3 c4b3
21.a6a7 Rd8a8
22.Bb7a8 Rh8a8
23.Ba3b2 Be7g5
24.Rf1d1 f7f6
25.Kg1f1 Be6c4+
26.Kf1e1 Kd7e6
27.Ra1a4 Bc4d5
28.Ra4a6 Bg5f4
29.h2h3 Bf4g5
30.g2g3 f6f5
31.Rd1a1 Bd5g2
32.Ra6b6 Bg2h3
33.Rb6b8 Bh3g2
34.Rb8a8 Bg2a8
35.Ra1a6?! Bd8
I could play 35.Ra1a3!
36.Ke1d2 Bd8f6
37.Ra6b6 Bf6g5+
38.Kd2c3 Bg5f6
39.Kc3b3 Ba1d5+
40.Kb3c2 Bd5e4+
41.Kc2d1 Be4f3+
42.Kd1e1 h7h5
41.Rb6b8 h5h4
42.g3h4 Bf6-h4
43.a7a8Q Bf3a8
44.Rb8a8 Bh4g5
45.Ke1e2 Ke6d5
46.f2f3 Kd5e6
47.Ra8a6 Ke6d5
48.Bb2a3 Bg5e7
49.Ra6a7 Kd5e6
50.Ke2d3 Be7f6
51.Kd3c4 g7g5
52.Kc4b5 d6d5
53.Ra7a6+ Ke6f7
54.Kb5c5 e5e4
55.Kc5d5 e4f3
56.Ra6a7+ Kf7g6
57.Ba3c5 Bf6b2
58.Ra7a2 Bb2f6
59.Ra2a6 Kg6g7
60.Bc5d4 Bf6d4
61.Kd5d4 f3f2
62.Ra6a1 Kg7g6
63.Kd4e3 Kg6f7
64.Ke3g2 Kf7e6
65.Kf2e3 Ke6f6
66.Ra1a5 Kf6e6
67.Ke3d4 Ke6f6
68.Ra5a6+ Kf6f7
69.Kd4e5 f5f4
70.Ke5f5 ETC.
Regards,
Wlod
|
| | |
Date: 23 Jul 2008 11:13:10
From: Guest
Subject: Re: wh-micro-Max 4.0 / Re: micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 by H.G.Muller
|
"Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:2f8f45b7-6811-4d19-969d-94d4252db103@r35g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
MicroMax is surprisingly strong for just 2k of C code.
As Mr. Muller points on in the forum, v4.8 is even stronger.
It's a little awkward to play, though. Hard coded node count control, etc.
That's why he also provides a larger xboard compatible version.
I think it's safe to say that MicroMax has become the modern day "TECH"
benchmark program.
Back in the 70's, Jim Gillogly came up with the idea of a very simple chess
program that could be used as a benchmark program to compare hardware and
other programs. A 'fixed point' in space, so to speak.
It never really caught on, but in spite of its simplicity, it was stronger
than many programs of the time. It wasn't very smart positionally, but it
was pretty good at tactics. And since chess *is* tactics at its heart....
The selective search programs and the "smart but slow" programs often had
major problems against Tech.
That's pretty much the way MicroMax is. In spite of its simplicity, it's
stronger than many programs. Only a little positional smarts, but it's very
good tactically.
If your 'more sophisticated' program can't match MicroChess 4.8 at
comparable time controls, then a programmer knows he has some work to do to
reach minimal acceptable playing quality.
You can dismiss it by saying your program has more positional knowledge or
plays differently or has a better Qsearch or some such, but since chess is
tactics, if you loose then you loose. It's just simply a diferent playing
style.
----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
|
| |
Date: 22 Jul 2008 19:09:43
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 by H.G.Muller
|
On Jul 22, 5:02 pm, "Guest" <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> It wasn't when I registered, but
> I've been registered a long time.
>
> But no, I wouldn't expect it to take this long.
I am already activated, and have posted my
question. Thank you again,
Wlod
|
| |
Date: 22 Jul 2008 13:45:49
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 by H.G.Muller
|
On Jul 20, 3:15 pm, "Guest" <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> I'd suggest talking directly with Mr. Muller.
>
> He's a regular at the TalkChess forums.
>
> http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewforum.php?start=0&f=7&topic_view=flat
I registered. I got a welcome emil letter,
including my user name and password, but
my account is still not activated. It's been
already two days. Is this delay standard?
Regards,
Wlod
|
| | |
Date: 22 Jul 2008 19:02:55
From: Guest
Subject: Re: micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 by H.G.Muller
|
"Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:dfa1b3a0-0308-4313-9ce1-282d1915de4c@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 20, 3:15 pm, "Guest" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> I'd suggest talking directly with Mr. Muller.
>>
>> He's a regular at the TalkChess forums.
>>
>> http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewforum.php?start=0&f=7&topic_view=flat
>
> I registered. I got a welcome emil letter,
> including my user name and password, but
> my account is still not activated. It's been
> already two days. Is this delay standard?
It wasn't when I registered, but I've been registered a long time.
But no, I wouldn't expect it to take this long.
The only thing I can think of is they are busy with personal stuff and just
haven't gotten around to it.
Sorry it's taken so long.
One of the current moderators is Ted Summers (tedsummers.com) but I don't
see an email address you could use to contact hime. (He's the only current
ones with a valid web site.)
I knew the direct email addresses of some of the previous moderators but not
the current ones.
One of the problems with these forums is that if there's a problem
registering, you have no good way to resolve it or even contact the admins.
It's like they go out of their way to hide.
----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
|
| |
Date: 20 Jul 2008 22:40:15
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 by H.G.Muller
|
On Jul 20, 3:15 pm, "Guest" <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> I'd suggest talking directly with Mr. Muller.
>
> He's a regular at the TalkChess forums.
>
> http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewforum.php?start=0&f=7&topic_view=flat
Thank you, very much.
I have (almost) joined "talkchess",
and once my account is activated,
I'll ask Mr. Muller my questions
soon.
Regards,
Wlod
|
| |
Date: 20 Jul 2008 19:36:28
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 by H.G.Muller
|
On Jul 20, 2:05 pm, Tony M <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:42:58 -0700 (PDT), Wlodzimierz Holsztynski
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I have copied the source programs and
> >compiled micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 on
> >my Mac OS X. These cute C programs,
> >pearls of programming, can be copied
> >from:
>
> >http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/dwnldpage.html
>
> > or more precisely, from:
>
> >http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/umax4_0.c
>
> > and
>
> >http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/umax4_8.c
>
> >***
>
> >I ran these two programs in the so-called
> >terminal window. They printed the initial
> >position, they accepted my first move, they
> >printed the position after my first move, and
> >... nothing! How frustrated!
>
> >I'd like to enjoy these miniatures. Thus I would
> >appreciate any helpful comments, which would
> >result in a nice game of chess by the said two
> >programs.
>
> >Best regards,
>
> > Wlod
>
> An empty input line is supposed to make the program enter thinking
> mode. It should make the move and display an updated board.
>
> Tony
:-) Thank you, :-)
Wlod
|
| |
Date: 20 Jul 2008 17:15:34
From: Guest
Subject: Re: micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 by H.G.Muller
|
"Wlodzimierz Holsztynski" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'd like to enjoy these miniatures. Thus I would
> appreciate any helpful comments, which would
> result in a nice game of chess by the said two
> programs.
I'd suggest talking directly with Mr. Muller.
He's a regular at the TalkChess forums.
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewforum.php?start=0&f=7&topic_view=flat
----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
|
| |
Date: 20 Jul 2008 21:05:36
From: Tony M
Subject: Re: micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 by H.G.Muller
|
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:42:58 -0700 (PDT), Wlodzimierz Holsztynski
<[email protected] > wrote:
>I have copied the source programs and
>compiled micro-Max 4.0 and 4.8 on
>my Mac OS X. These cute C programs,
>pearls of programming, can be copied
>from:
>
>http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/dwnldpage.html
>
> or more precisely, from:
>
>http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/umax4_0.c
>
> and
>
>http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/umax4_8.c
>
>***
>
>I ran these two programs in the so-called
>terminal window. They printed the initial
>position, they accepted my first move, they
>printed the position after my first move, and
>... nothing! How frustrated!
>
>I'd like to enjoy these miniatures. Thus I would
>appreciate any helpful comments, which would
>result in a nice game of chess by the said two
>programs.
>
>Best regards,
>
> Wlod
An empty input line is supposed to make the program enter thinking
mode. It should make the move and display an updated board.
Tony
|
|
