Which desktop chess computer ?

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Date: 07 Mar 2007 18:41:47
From: Hans
Subject: Which desktop chess computer ?

I am looking for a desktop chess computer.

My playing skills are very moderate but I am willing to learn.

A chess board needs to be big enough to get a comfortable overview for me.
Autosensor fields would be great but is not a breaking point for me.
Connectability to a Mac would be great. A reasonable price difference
is no big deal for me.

Four candidates I found interesting so far:

Novag Citrine
Excalibur Grandmaster
Both have autosensor

Novag Obsidian
Saitek Master
No autosensor

So what would you advise me to look for ? Any pitfalls, great or bad
experiences with any of these machines?

Thanks, Hans

Date: 07 Mar 2007 10:46:08
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

So the Excalibur GM set can hook up to a computer ?

What does that do when you hook up a computer set to a desk top computer
?

I have webtv so it confuses me ..

Thank you for that info..

I have Ivan the conqueror two ..A Excalibur machine and i like it BUT on
the box it say's est I800 ELO and after playing it vs FRITZ 9 and losing
my friend started to dumb it down and at I700 ELO on his FRITZ 9 , Ivan
started to win a game or two off and lose too..Games can go either way
so that tells my IVAN is about I700 ELO...So the number on the box is
about I00 ELO off and that kind of bugs me but over all i have liked
it..

I have seen the GM set and it looks nice ..But your right do your home
work first ....

Post which one you get ..Thanks ..

Date: 07 Mar 2007 23:17:16
From: Hans
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

On 2007-03-07 19:46:08 +0100, [email protected] (SAT W-7) said:

> So the Excalibur GM set can hook up to a computer ?
>
> What does that do when you hook up a computer set to a desk top computer
> ?
>
> I have webtv so it confuses me ..
>
> Thank you for that info..
>
> I have Ivan the conqueror two ..A Excalibur machine and i like it BUT on
> the box it say's est I800 ELO and after playing it vs FRITZ 9 and losing
> my friend started to dumb it down and at I700 ELO on his FRITZ 9 , Ivan
> started to win a game or two off and lose too..Games can go either way
> so that tells my IVAN is about I700 ELO...So the number on the box is
> about I00 ELO off and that kind of bugs me but over all i have liked
> it..
>
> I have seen the GM set and it looks nice ..But your right do your home
> work first ....
>
> Post which one you get ..Thanks ..

all I know is what I have read on the websites of the producers. What I
want to know is are people around here satisfied or dissatisfied of
table top chess computers I might plan to buy.

Hans

Date: 07 Mar 2007 23:47:18
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

Id compare the NOVAG vs GM autosensor against each other keeping in
mind the ELO on the GM box mite be I00 ELO points less than what the box
say's....

I like my Ivan , i can take it anywhere ..The GM set board and
pieces are larger so it mite not be as easy to take it with you..

But if your going to set it beside your home computer and play on that
vs on line computers and humans , id get one of the two above..

I call those two companies and ask who made the chess programs for them
and ask their ELO's and just check both out ...

Let us know which one you get or are there a few others ? I am not
sure......BUT id get the strongest one because it bugs me that Ivan
loses to other computers ..ha ha ha.....

Date: 11 Mar 2007 00:09:43
From: Hans
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

Today I bought the Novag Citrine. Price was reduced by 50 Euro so I
paid E 225 in stead of E 275. Reason for the reduction was a tiny
production defect on the wood finish which is undetectable without a
microscope.

The machine looks and feels better than every other I have tested
including the Mephisto Senator. The board looks very natural and calm.
Warm wood in nice colours. Medium sized board. No distractive elements
in the design.

Although not as strong as the Mephisto Senator (which has the same
module as Mephisto Master or Saitek Master) it is twice as cheap as the
Senator but it looks twice as cute. It is stronger than the Excalibur
GM.

When I need pure computing strength I will use my computer. On the
other hand my playing strength is way less than my Citrine. So many
happy years of combat to go for me.

There is an RS 232 cable connector but that's only meant for flashing
the ROM. So the machine can not be used as a DGT board which I regret.

The LCD display can be detached and attached at any time even during play.

Of course I still need to get used to everything especially the menu.
The auto sensor is terrific.

I am happy with it so far.

Adios

Hans

On 2007-03-08 08:47:18 +0100, [email protected] (SAT W-7) said:

> Id compare the NOVAG vs GM autosensor against each other keeping in
> mind the ELO on the GM box mite be I00 ELO points less than what the box
> say's....
>
> I like my Ivan , i can take it anywhere ..The GM set board and
> pieces are larger so it mite not be as easy to take it with you..
>
> But if your going to set it beside your home computer and play on that
> vs on line computers and humans , id get one of the two above..
>
> I call those two companies and ask who made the chess programs for them
> and ask their ELO's and just check both out ...
>
> Let us know which one you get or are there a few others ? I am not
> sure......BUT id get the strongest one because it bugs me that Ivan
> loses to other computers ..ha ha ha.....

Date: 11 Mar 2007 19:21:04
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

Glad you got one and it sounds like a good deal too and you did your
home work..

i think you will be happy with it ..

Any pics or i am sure they have a web site , i mite look it up later..

It would walk all over my Ivan but still it is fun to play computer vs
computer , when Fritz beats ivan i can see the weakness i the end game
but i am not good enough to exploit that weakness ..I have only won one
game at the strongest level and lost 400 + games over the years...But i
am still proud i beat it because i earned it..

If you ever feel like playing Ivan vs your computer feel free to let
me know...

Have fun with it and it will last years ......

After you play it a few times let us know how you like it .....

Date: 12 Mar 2007 17:08:51
From: Hans
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

>
> Any pics or i am sure they have a web site , i mite look it up later..
>
>

https://www.schachversand.de/startneue.htm

Date: 13 Mar 2007 22:04:54
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

Thank you..

How do you like playing it ?

Date: 14 Mar 2007 22:21:13
From: Hans
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

On 2007-03-14 06:04:54 +0100, [email protected] (SAT W-7) said:

> Thank you..
>
> How do you like playing it ?

Playing
1. strength
The computer is way too strong for me to beat at the middle or higher
levels. I can beat the computer though when I play carefully at the
easier levels. That is good to keep my frustration level controlled. It
plays quickly and won't make tactical errors. It looks like years of
enjoyment here for me since I need to learn a lot before I master this
machine.

I have set the Citrine up against my twenty year old Kasparov Team Mate
computer on 15 seconds/move several times now. The Citrine wins no
matter playing White or Black.

Persons at the shop told me that the Citrine is stronger than the
Excalibur Grandmaster and the Novag Osidian but weaker than Mephisto
Chess Challenger (Admiral) and Master Chess.

2. comfort
The looks and feel are just great. The board is just the size I like to
look at. Not too big, not too small. Stable wooden pieces, warm
colours. This machine really looks and feels better than the Mephisto
Exclusive Senator. The Senator is over twice as expensive and plays
stronger but the finish is poor and the drawer containing the chess
module feels like cheap "dont-touch-me-plastic". Not being a top level
player (both machines beat me) the choice between the two was a no
brainer for me.
Not having to press the pieces every move is a dream. The pieces are
magnetic so they lift up a magnetic contact underneath the wood. Lift a
piece and place it where you want just like human counterplay.

3. menu
The menu is displayed on a detachable small LCD screen. A menu button
on the side of the board activates the menue. The fields of the board
act as menu items. One gets used to the menu layout in a short time. I
would prefer a few buttons on the LCD screen for this purpose.

Date: 14 Mar 2007 19:22:33
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

I looked at that one too ( Mephisto ) and i like yours better ..I did
not see the Admiral one but id still buy yours ......

Yes you will probably never beat it on the strongest level but still
it will give you years of fun ...

My ivan is about I700 ELO and when i play Fritz 9 i can see ivans
weaknesses and i am still not good enough to exploit them myself but i
try..
have a good day ..

Date: 14 Mar 2007 12:37:18
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

I looked at their chess website and you did get a VERY nice one and
powerful , that is the one id get too ....If i ever get a real computer
.
Yes i looked at the GM one too and i like yours better .....

well let us know how you like it ..

How are the lights that light the board and does it hook up easy to your
computer ? How do you like the pieces ? Those looked good to me too.
How do they feel , heavy ? good weight ?
well have a good day..

If you ever want to play my Ivan feel free to e mail me or leave a
message here.....If not that is OK too ........

Yes that is the one i want in the future ....

Date: 14 Mar 2007 22:29:07
From: Hans
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

>
> How are the lights that light the board and does it hook up easy to your
> computer ?

The lights: 91 diodes so 4 diodes per field... looks good.
Hooking up to the computer: no way. There is a RS 232 (serial) cable in
the box. No hooking up instructions in the manual though. No practical
every day use for that cable so far. I think the only use for that
cable is to flash the ROM in case there might come up a program update
or so. At least until the time that someone will take the effort to
write drivers and a ROM update to use this board as a DGT board.

The rest of you questions in the other posting.....
Playing against your Ivan when I have time sounds like fun. I'll let you know.

Hans

Date: 14 Mar 2007 19:35:41
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

That is cool they give you that cable for a future update ...

ivan vs fritz 9 ...

One game in the end game ivans king was under pressure and ivan had
his rook protecting a lowly pawn and i was thinking why ? I am not a GM
but get that rook over to help the king.
ha ha ha..i was bugged ..ha ha....
I know how powerful those chess programs are and i expect ivan to lose
, it is my own pride that wants ivan to win..ha ha ha.....
Still all those games were interesting in their own way...

Hey when your computer plays white is it from the first and second rank
? When Ivan is white he plays white from the 7th and 8th rank and that
bugs me a little.....Black on the first and second rank.....

have a good day

Date: 15 Mar 2007 21:56:04
From: Hans
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

On 2007-03-15 03:35:41 +0100, [email protected] (SAT W-7) said:

>
>
> Hey when your computer plays white is it from the first and second rank
> ? When Ivan is white he plays white from the 7th and 8th rank and that
> bugs me a little.....Black on the first and second rank.....
>
>

Citrine can do both: play white from regular setup rank 1 and 2. It can
also flip the board and play from rank 7 and 8.

Date: 16 Mar 2007 20:15:21
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

That is good it can do both , Ivan can not .....

Date: 14 Mar 2007 19:36:37
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

Wow all those lights must look cool in the dark..

Date: 07 Mar 2007 10:47:41
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

By the way what does the autosensor do ?

Date: 07 Mar 2007 23:14:37
From: Hans
Subject: Re: Which desktop chess computer ?

On 2007-03-07 19:47:41 +0100, [email protected] (SAT W-7) said:

> By the way what does the autosensor do ?

Autosensor knows where the pieces are without having to press before
leaving a field and press before entering a field.

I have no experience with it but it sounds good to me that the board
has magnetic sensors so that it knows where the pieces are.

Hans