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Main
Date: 19 Nov 2006 17:46:00
From: Emil Koch
Subject: Visual Basic Chess project
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Hi,
Do you know any project, GUI or Engine,
in Visual Basic source for learning purposes ?
Thanks in advance
Emil
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Date: 21 Nov 2006 18:31:47
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Visual Basic Chess project
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Emil Koch <[email protected] > wrote:
> Hi,
> Do you know any project, GUI or Engine,
> in Visual Basic source for learning purposes ?
>
Who uses Visual Basic anymore? Does Microsoft even support it?
;-)
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
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Date: 21 Nov 2006 22:54:06
From: Emil Koch
Subject: Re: Visual Basic Chess project
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"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <[email protected] > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
> Who uses Visual Basic anymore? Does Microsoft even support it?
Your are right, but I have a lot of great addins within my IDE and its hard
to witch to another language. On the other hand VB is a rapid fast
development
Language for making a GUI, isn't it ?
Imho it was wrong from Microsoft to support and develop it no more longer.
By the way, what do You advise me to go to?
I know most Engines are developed in C++ , but it would fit me to
have a GUI simular to Arena, prily focused on Analyses and Bookevents.
Emil
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Date: 24 Nov 2006 06:22:39
From: Michael Vondung
Subject: Re: Visual Basic Chess project
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:54:06 +0100, Emil Koch wrote:
> On the other hand VB is a rapid fast development
> Language for making a GUI, isn't it ?
There's nothing wrong with using VB, except that it's no longer supported
by MS (the non-.NET versions anyway). If you would like to switch to
something that is very similar to VB and still supported (and exists for
other platforms also), then look at RealBasic. Personally, I use PureBasic
for my small applications (I prefer 50 KB exes over 3 MB ones, and you get
the software for Mac and Linux on top of the Windows package) and Ruby for
scripting. I did use VB for many years but eventually grew tired of the
never ending updates and upgrades. It's also way too bloated for my taste.
Like I said, I like small, fast executables that do not require runtime
DLLs.
M.
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Date: 24 Nov 2006 21:42:11
From: Emil Koch
Subject: Re: Visual Basic Chess project
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"Michael Vondung" <[email protected] > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
>If you would like to switch to
> something that is very similar to VB and still supported (and exists for
> other platforms also), then look at RealBasic.
Thank You for this great advice.
>Personally, I use PureBasic
Now I have to decide: RealBasic or PureBasic or both ?
> for my small applications (I prefer 50 KB exes over 3 MB ones, and you get
> the software for Mac and Linux on top of the Windows package) and Ruby for
> scripting.
> Like I said, I like small, fast executables that do not require runtime
> DLLs.
me too.
Thanks
Emil
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Date: 25 Nov 2006 05:03:31
From: Michael Vondung
Subject: Re: Visual Basic Chess project
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On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 21:42:11 +0100, Emil Koch wrote:
> Now I have to decide: RealBasic or PureBasic or both ?
RealBasic if you don't mind the relatively high costs (especially the
recurring ones) and do like rapid development. It's much like VB when it
comes to GUI-creation and adding code to GUI-elements, and changing to it
from VB would be least complicated. PureBasuc is a little simpler in that
area, but produces much smaller and much faster EXE files and is, as far as
the actual language design is concerned, the better Basic. But you can look
at both -- there are demo versions available: http://www.realbasic.com and
http://www.purebasic.com. German documentation is available for both.
M.
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Date: 22 Nov 2006 08:17:34
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Visual Basic Chess project
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Emil Koch <[email protected] > wrote:
> By the way, what do You advise me to go to? I know most Engines are
> developed in C++ , but it would fit me to have a GUI simular to
> Arena, prily focused on Analyses and Bookevents.
If your goal is to write a chess engine, you don't need to write a
GUI: just make your engine speak the Winboard or UCI protocol (or even
both) and you can plug it in to the pre-existing GUI of your choice.
Alternativelty, if it's writing the GUI that appeals to you most, you
can write that to speak the other end of the protocol and plug any
pre-existing engine you want into it.
Of course, if you want to write both an engine and a GUI, that's cool
too. :-)
Dave.
--
David Richerby Carnivorous Lead Chair (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a chair that weighs a ton but it
eats flesh!
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Date: 23 Nov 2006 01:03:00
From: Emil Koch
Subject: Re: Visual Basic Chess project
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"David Richerby" <[email protected] > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:ETn*[email protected]...
> Alternativelty, if it's writing the GUI that appeals to you most, you
> can write that to speak the other end of the protocol and plug any
> pre-existing engine you want into it.
Do you have any ideas how the WB or UCI Protocoll works ?
While there are numberless very good engines all around, I see no need in
making
a new engine. My intention is to make a GUI with much more book-functions
then
most comman products. Nice Analyses output too.
This could save a lot of time, creating a chess-repertoire for active
players.
Making a nice GUI i think a fast development tool like VB is OK.
How do you think about it ? Is there someone out, who has started the same
once and has some code available ? Book Handling Code is newland to me.
Emil
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Date: 23 Nov 2006 08:59:45
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Visual Basic Chess project
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Emil Koch <[email protected] > wrote:
> "David Richerby" <[email protected]> schrieb:
>> Alternativelty, if it's writing the GUI that appeals to you most, you
>> can write that to speak the other end of the protocol and plug any
>> pre-existing engine you want into it.
>
> Do you have any ideas how the WB or UCI Protocoll works ?
No but IIRC Google does.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Revolting Mentholated Widget
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ (TM): it's like a thingy but it's
invigorating and it'll turn your
stomach!
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Date: 22 Nov 2006 04:48:01
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Visual Basic Chess project
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Emil Koch <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <[email protected]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Who uses Visual Basic anymore? Does Microsoft even support it?
>
> Your are right, but I have a lot of great addins within my IDE and its hard
> to witch to another language. On the other hand VB is a rapid fast
> development
> Language for making a GUI, isn't it ?
> Imho it was wrong from Microsoft to support and develop it no more longer.
> By the way, what do You advise me to go to?
> I know most Engines are developed in C++ , but it would fit me to
> have a GUI simular to Arena, prily focused on Analyses and Bookevents.
If you are going to write an engine, I think a non-interpretive language is a
good place to start. C, C++, Pascal, etc.
VB is dead ... get over it or software development will get over you [if it
hasn't already].
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
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Date: 21 Nov 2006 22:35:19
From: Mr. Question
Subject: Re: Visual Basic Chess project
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"Emil Koch" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <[email protected]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Who uses Visual Basic anymore? Does Microsoft even support it?
>
> Your are right, but I have a lot of great addins within my IDE and its
> hard
> to witch to another language. On the other hand VB is a rapid fast
> development
> Language for making a GUI, isn't it ?
> Imho it was wrong from Microsoft to support and develop it no more longer.
> By the way, what do You advise me to go to?
> I know most Engines are developed in C++ , but it would fit me to
Actually, most engines are probably still done in C.
The C++ classes can add a little extra overhead due to the 'this' pointer
dereferencing. That may or may not be a problem depending on how you
design the classes. Some are indeed done in C++, though.
Go with whatever language you are comfortable with.
The reality is that about any language except Java or .net based stuff will
have enough speed.
(Well, assuming it has a decent optimizer. This rules out FreePascal.
Borland's TurboC++ Express isn't too good either, but it's tolerable. Just
expect a 50% performance loss over GCC, which itself is probably 15%-25%
slower than Intel C compiler.)
Whatever language you are comfortable in is best because you're going to
have enough trouble dealing with the basic algorithms etc. and you'll
rewrite the program many many times.
Just make sure it supports the data types you need. For example, if you
used 'bitboards' then any language that doesn't have 64 bit unsigned
integers would be a problem. This would rule out Borland's Delphi language.
On the other hand, if you intend to use some variation of the classic
'mailbox' method, then about any compiler would do, provided it can handle
unsigned 8 bit integers fairly efficiently.
Sure, if you want the best possible performance, you'll probably need to go
to C. But even slower languages can do fairly well because most of the hard
work is done in the search and evaluation algorithms, not the compiler's
optimizer.
> have a GUI simular to Arena, prily focused on Analyses and Bookevents.
>
> Emil
>
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Date: 22 Nov 2006 04:51:00
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Visual Basic Chess project
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Mr. Question <[email protected] > wrote:
> Just make sure it supports the data types you need. For example, if you
> used 'bitboards' then any language that doesn't have 64 bit unsigned
> integers would be a problem. This would rule out Borland's Delphi language.
>
Delphi isn't a language per se; it is Pascal with a Delphi framework on top
... and perhaps a few compiler or preprocessor hacks.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
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Date: 22 Nov 2006 12:43:25
From: Mr. Question
Subject: Re: Visual Basic Chess project
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"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mr. Question <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Just make sure it supports the data types you need. For example, if you
>> used 'bitboards' then any language that doesn't have 64 bit unsigned
>> integers would be a problem. This would rule out Borland's Delphi
>> language.
>>
>
> Delphi isn't a language per se; it is Pascal with a Delphi framework on
> top
> ... and perhaps a few compiler or preprocessor hacks.
But, Borland doesn't have a compiler called "Pascal" anymore.
It's called "Delphi". No matter what the underlying language looks like,
and was originally based upon, they called it "Delphi". Period.
(And technically, Delphi isn't Pascal. It was based on Pascal and is still
very Pascal like, but it's definetly not real Pascal. If you've ever tried
to use Real Pascal, with all the restrictions and limiations and undefined
areas, you wouldn't even think to say that Delphi is Pascal. You'd say
"Pascal like" or some such.)
And Delphi doesn't have 64 bit unsigned integers.
If you'll notice, I didn't say GNU Pascal or FreePascal didn't have 64 bit
unsigned integers. I said Borland Delphi, which is the name of their
compiler.
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Date: 19 Nov 2006 17:30:24
From: Tony M
Subject: Re: Visual Basic Chess project
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On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 17:46:00 +0100, "Emil Koch" <[email protected] >
wrote:
>Hi,
>Do you know any project, GUI or Engine,
>in Visual Basic source for learning purposes ?
>
>Thanks in advance
>Emil
>
LarsenVB
http://xoomer.alice.it/ludormio/download.htm
Migoya Chess
http://www.gmap.com.mx/MigoyaChess/
Tony
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Date: 19 Nov 2006 22:06:44
From: Emil Koch
Subject: Re: Visual Basic Chess project
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"Tony M" <[email protected] > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 17:46:00 +0100, "Emil Koch" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> LarsenVB
> http://xoomer.alice.it/ludormio/download.htm
>
> Migoya Chess
> http://www.gmap.com.mx/MigoyaChess/
>
> Tony
Both very interesting projects, but do not work with VB5-le.
Migoya needs numberless active-x components i don't have,
Larsen does work fine as compiled exe, but the source code
commented in italy i can't fix to work anyway.
On the other hand, both programs are excellent code.
Thanks for responding
Emil
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