Scid 3.6.23 released

Main

Date: 21 Apr 2008 11:20:34
From: Pascal
Subject: Scid 3.6.23 released

Hi,

I released an updated version of Scid at http://prolinux.free.fr/scid/,
which is mainly a bug fix release.
See the "release notes" section for details.

Scid for Pocket PC has also been updated
http://prolinux.free.fr/scid/PPC.html (with minor fixes and engines
updates).

Pascal

Date: 22 Apr 2008 03:53:58
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: Scid 3.6.23 released

Pascal "The Plagiarist" Georges wrote:

>I released an updated version of Scid at http://[deleted].fr/scid/,
>which is mainly a bug fix release.
>See the "release notes" section for details.

The above software is NOT Scid. "Scid" is a trademark of
Shane Hudson, and stands for Shane's Chess Information
Database. Shane Hudson never gave Pascal permission to
use the name SCid for his forked project. He stole it,
taking advantage of Shane's illness. This is why the
sourceforge admims wouldn't allow him to take over the
Scid project.

>Scid for Pocket PC has also been updated
>http://[deleted].fr/scid/PPC.html (with minor fixes and engines
>updates).

There is no such thing as Scid for Pocket PC. The above is
a fork derived from Scid and from ChessDB. Pascal stole the
name "Scid" without permission, and lifted code from ChessDB
(including typos) while claiming not to do so.

The REAL Scid is found here: [ http://scid.sourceforge.net/ ]
There are at least two forks of Scid, and one program heavily
infuenced by Scid, but Pascal's is the only one that pretends
to be the real Scid -- which is why he cannot host it on
SourceForge.

The Real Scid:
http://scid.sourceforge.net/

Non-stolen chess database programs:
http://chessdb.sourceforge.net/
http://chessx.sourceforge.net/

The real Scid already exists and is already in various name-based
databases, package management systems, the sourceforge page, etc.
Nobody is going to delete the real Scid to make room for this
impostor. Pascal's decision to steal the Scid name kept him from
hosting his project on sourceforge, kept it out of the freebsd
ports system, and many other places. Pascal is shooting himself
in the foot by stealing the Scid name.

Date: 27 Apr 2008 11:02:15
From: Marc Lacrosse
Subject: Re: Scid 3.6.23 released

Guy Macon wrote:
> Pascal "The Plagiarist" Georges wrote:
>
>> I released an updated version of Scid at http://[deleted].fr/scid/,
>> which is mainly a bug fix release.
>> See the "release notes" section for details.
>
> The above software is NOT Scid. "Scid" is a trademark of
> Shane Hudson, and stands for Shane's Chess Information
> Database. Shane Hudson never gave Pascal permission to
> use the name SCid for his forked project. He stole it,
> taking advantage of Shane's illness. This is why the
> sourceforge admims wouldn't allow him to take over the
> Scid project.
>
>> Scid for Pocket PC has also been updated
>> http://[deleted].fr/scid/PPC.html (with minor fixes and engines
>> updates).
>
> There is no such thing as Scid for Pocket PC. The above is
> a fork derived from Scid and from ChessDB. Pascal stole the
> name "Scid" without permission, and lifted code from ChessDB
> (including typos) while claiming not to do so.
>
> The REAL Scid is found here: [ http://scid.sourceforge.net/ ]
> There are at least two forks of Scid, and one program heavily
> infuenced by Scid, but Pascal's is the only one that pretends
> to be the real Scid -- which is why he cannot host it on
> SourceForge.
>
> The Real Scid:
> http://scid.sourceforge.net/
>
> Non-stolen chess database programs:
> http://chessdb.sourceforge.net/
> http://chessx.sourceforge.net/
>
> The real Scid already exists and is already in various name-based
> databases, package management systems, the sourceforge page, etc.
> Nobody is going to delete the real Scid to make room for this
> impostor. Pascal's decision to steal the Scid name kept him from
> hosting his project on sourceforge, kept it out of the freebsd
> ports system, and many other places. Pascal is shooting himself
> in the foot by stealing the Scid name.
>

I cannot agree.

P George versions of SCID are free, with source available.
When you launch the "about SCID" item from within the help menu there is
the following statement :
"Author : Shane Hudson
Contribution: Pascal Georges"
This is clear and satisfying for me.

Ok it is unfortunate that PG could not collaborate with other persons
who showed interest in SCID improvements. OK it's possible he took some
small code from chessdb for his own versions without acknowledging
properly. OK PG-SCID or anything similar could have been a more adequate
name for his version (his fork if you prefer).

On this I do agree.

But there is also (and for me this is far more important) the fact that
P Georges did a lot more than anyone else for offering an improved SCID
to the community while keeping it free and maintaining a clear reference
to S Hudson authorship.

I use P Georges versions on a daily basis and they are much more
powerful than the original SCID and than any other fork.

So I really think we should thank P Georges and I cannot understand why
you are there with such agressive posts anytime P Georges posts anything
on this topic.

Marc Lacrosse

PS If you are the Guy Macon who authored the XBasic programming
language, thanks a lot for this much interesting piece of software!

Date: 28 Apr 2008 11:24:02
From: Pascal
Subject: Re: Scid 3.6.23 released

Marc Lacrosse a �crit :

> Ok it is unfortunate that PG could not collaborate with other persons
> who showed interest in SCID improvements.

Plural is not adequate here. I can not collaborate with ONE person.
Other persons are currently contributing to Scid's development.

OK it's possible he took some
> small code from chessdb for his own versions without acknowledging
> properly.

I still repeat my endless question : how many lines of *code* are
present in Scid and "borrowed" from chessdb ? I'd like to get *any*
*rough* approximation, just for my information, and I will acknowledge
any number "as is". Why don't I get any answer to this simple question ?
Maybe I stole a car one day unaware of it, but if the complainant cannot
even tell me its color, I find his request suspicious.

> But there is also (and for me this is far more important) the fact that
> P Georges did a lot more than anyone else for offering an improved SCID
> to the community while keeping it free and maintaining a clear reference
> to S Hudson authorship.
>
> I use P Georges versions on a daily basis and they are much more
> powerful than the original SCID and than any other fork.
>
> So I really think we should thank P Georges and I cannot understand why
> you are there with such agressive posts anytime P Georges posts anything
> on this topic.

You get so many people in this newsgroup that have nothing clever to
say, that this group is (nearly) dead, and this is why everybody serious
about chess and computers flew away to
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/index.php or to other forums (Hiarcs,
Rybka forums).
It is sad to see that on rec.games.chess.computer there are no engine
version announcement for example (and on Talkchess, maybe there are too
many ;-) ). The problem is that some people (beginners) really
interested in chess and computers may first start here, unaware of other
forums, this is why it seems I am the only person left announcing here (!?).

Concerning "agressive" posts, I suppose there are some given that you
refer to them, but I have some black lists on my news reader that filter
quite well ;-)

Pascal

Date: 28 Apr 2008 12:52:45
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Scid 3.6.23 released

Pascal <[email protected] > wrote:
> Marc Lacrosse a �crit :
>> OK it's possible he took some small code from chessdb for his own
>> versions without acknowledging properly.
>
> I still repeat my endless question : how many lines of *code* are
> present in Scid and "borrowed" from chessdb ?

It doesn't matter how many. If there is any code at all from chessdb
in your version of Scid, then the author of that code should be
acknowledged.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Homicidal Cheese (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a brick of cheese but it wants to
kill you!

Date: 28 Apr 2008 20:23:11
From: Pascal
Subject: Re: Scid 3.6.23 released

David Richerby a �crit :
> Pascal <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Marc Lacrosse a �crit :
>>> OK it's possible he took some small code from chessdb for his own
>>> versions without acknowledging properly.
>> I still repeat my endless question : how many lines of *code* are
>> present in Scid and "borrowed" from chessdb ?
>
> It doesn't matter how many. If there is any code at all from chessdb
> in your version of Scid, then the author of that code should be
> acknowledged.

I agree.

Pascal

Date: 29 Apr 2008 13:48:35
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Scid 3.6.23 released

Pascal <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> I agree.
>
> Pascal

But you just put the onus upon others to find code that you may have borrowed
from ChessDB .... so if they fail to do this effort, will you fail to
acknowledge?

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

Religion is a crutch, but that's okay... humanity is a cripple.

Date: 22 Apr 2008 09:04:47
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Scid 3.6.23 released

Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/ > wrote:
> "Scid" is a trademark of Shane Hudson

No it isn't. I'm not taking sides in your argument with Pascal but
please stick to the facts.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Disgusting Tool (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a screwdriver but it'll turn your
stomach!

Date: 22 Apr 2008 12:30:44
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Trademarks (again)

David Richerby wrote:

>Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote:
>
>> "Scid" is a trademark of Shane Hudson
>
>No it isn't.

Yes it is. You appear to have an ongoing misconception as
to the basis upon which trademarks are established.

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/doc/basic/appcontent.htm#basis
says "the mark must appear on the goods, the container for the
goods, or displays associated with the goods, and the goods must
be sold or transported in commerce." Feel free to search the USPTO
website for any addition requirements. There aren't any.

A trademark can be established without the trademark owner
registering it, defending it (there may be no infringement
to defend against) or even knowing what a trademark is.

>I'm not taking sides in your argument with Pascal

Actually, you are encouraging him to keep stealing the name
"Scid." In the past he has referenced your posts as
justification for doing so.

>but please stick to the facts.

You are allowed to have your own opinion, but not your own
facts. "Scid" is a trademark of Shane Hudson for the exact
same reason that "Linux" is a trademark of Linus Torvalds.

Here, once again, is the reasoning behind the above claim.
If you disagree, please state why. The last time you just
went silent, only to surface later with the same wrong ideas
about how trademarks are established.

The question of who owns the Trademark "Linux" and the legal
decision made in that case clearly show what is and what is
not the basis for trademark ownership.

Linus Torvalds created Linux in 1991. At that time and for
years afterward he made no trademark claims, didn't register
it, didn't add (TM) to it when he wrote about it, and did
absolutely nothing to stop many other people from calling
their products "Linux."

Then, in 1994, William R. Della Croce Jr. made the very first
claim in history that "Linux" is a trademark and that he is
the owner. Everyone ignored him until 1996 started demanding
10 percent royalties on sales from Linux vendors.

In the resulting lawsuit, R. Della Croce's claim was nullified
and the Linux trademark was legally assigned to Linus Torvalds.
See [ http://www.linuxmark.org/ ]. It would have been nice if
it had come down to a court decicion, but Della Croce folded
like a cheap suit and gave Linus everything he wanted as soon
as it became evident how weak his case was.

Especially instructive is the Petition to Cancel filed by
Linus Torvalds and others: [ http://lwn.net/Articles/148228/ ].
Nowhere in that document is there any claim that anyone other
than Croce was the first to claim that Linux is a trademark.
That Petition to Cancel was written by some of the top lawyers
in the field, so it is safe to say that the Petition to Cancel
is based upon what is and what is not the basis for trademark
ownership.

The only reason given -- and this is a key point -- for assigning
it to Linus Torvalds is that it was in use in commerce long
before he made his claim.

"Linux" became a trademark when the first dollar changed hands
while buying a copy. That is the only requirement.

You could make an argument (although you have not done so in
the past) that Shane Hudson has abandoned his trademark by not
defending it, in which case the court would have to take into
consideration whether he was aware of the infringement, whether
he was well enough to make a defense possible, and whether
"Scid" has become a generic term for any chess database.
That could be a reasonable legal argument. The assertion that
you have made in the past ("Nothing is trademarked unless you
explicitly say that it is") is inconsistent with the claims
made in the Linux Trademark case and with the USPTO document
referenced above.

--
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/ >

Date: 22 Apr 2008 12:38:53
From: David Kane
Subject: Re: Trademarks (again)

"Guy Macon" <http://www.guymacon.com/ > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Here, once again, is the reasoning behind the above claim.
> If you disagree, please state why. The last time you just
> went silent, only to surface later with the same wrong ideas
> about how trademarks are established.

This is Mr. Richerby's modus operandi. Demonstrate
that his bluster is false and he goes silent.

That would be OK (if a little immature), but then
he brings the same false arguments out a little
later.

Date: 21 Apr 2008 19:22:39
From:
Subject: Re: Scid 3.6.23 released

On Apr 21, 7:20=A0pm, Pascal <[email protected] > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I released an updated version of Scid athttp://prolinux.free.fr/scid/,
> which is mainly a bug fix release.
> See the "release notes" section for details.
>
> Scid for Pocket PC has also been updatedhttp://prolinux.free.fr/scid/PPC.h=
tml(with minor fixes and engines
> updates).
>
> Pascal

Any versions of this for a Palm PDA, like a Zire22?. Suggestions for
a Zire22 PDA.

Date: 22 Apr 2008 18:26:06
From: Pascal
Subject: Re: Scid 3.6.23 released

[email protected] a �crit :
> On Apr 21, 7:20 pm, Pascal <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I released an updated version of Scid athttp://prolinux.free.fr/scid/,
>> which is mainly a bug fix release.
>> See the "release notes" section for details.
>>
>> Scid for Pocket PC has also been updatedhttp://prolinux.free.fr/scid/PPC.html(with minor fixes and engines
>> updates).
>>
>> Pascal
>
> Any versions of this for a Palm PDA, like a Zire22?. Suggestions for
> a Zire22 PDA.

I know pretty well Palm OS and I don't think it is technically feasible.
I can suggest Hiarcs (very good) and Palm OpenChess.

Pascal

Date: 21 Apr 2008 17:12:39
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Scid 3.6.23 released

Pascal <[email protected] > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I released an updated version of Scid at http://prolinux.free.fr/scid/,
> which is mainly a bug fix release.
> See the "release notes" section for details.
>
> Scid for Pocket PC has also been updated
> http://prolinux.free.fr/scid/PPC.html (with minor fixes and engines
> updates).
>

You assumed SCID without the author's permission. You know what they say
about assuming don't you? Well, I think you should call your version, Asscid.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

In the land of the dark the Ship of the Sun is driven by the Grateful Dead.
-- Egyptian Book of the Dead