Main
Date: 28 Aug 2006 20:26:57
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
If you use Pocket Fritz 2, you may have noticed you can no longer look
up moves on their database.

I pointed this out to Chessbase a couple of months ago, but received no
reply. Then on a second attempt I got an email (dated 7th Aug 2006)
which said:

"We received the same information from other users of the program. We
are working for a solution and I hope, that it is available soon !"

But still no solution 3 weeks later.

So I emailed them again, and today got this reply:

"I forwarded your email and the description to the developer team again.
I hope, that they can solve the problem. "

If others who use Pocket Fritz 2 want to look up moves (i.e. find games
where a particular position is reached), then perhaps they will email
Chessbase too.

It is annoying that they make changes to their database and/or web
server, which breaks a program they have sold, and don't really seem to
consider it urgent to fix. I don't know when they were first aware of
it, but I suspect it is several months ago, since others have reported
telling them about it too.


--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)




 
Date: 29 Aug 2006 13:04:06
From: Ange1o DePa1ma
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase

"Dave (from the UK)" <[email protected] >
wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> If you use Pocket Fritz 2, you may have noticed you can no longer look up
> moves on their database.

Just out of curiosity, how does one go about doing that? What do you need
(when it worked)?

Angelo




  
Date: 30 Aug 2006 00:59:28
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
Ange1o DePa1ma wrote:
> "Dave (from the UK)" <[email protected]>
> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>If you use Pocket Fritz 2, you may have noticed you can no longer look up
>>moves on their database.
>
>
> Just out of curiosity, how does one go about doing that? What do you need
> (when it worked)?
>
> Angelo
>
>

You used to be able to make a few moves on the board (lets say 1.e6 e6)
then go to

Edit - > Search Online database
then tick "Current Position" and hit "Move Statistics". It would then
find the stats about that particular position - i.e. what are the most
common replies etc.

This used to work, but no longer does, and as I relayed earlier,
Chessbase don't see fixing it as a high priority.


You can do much the same at the chessbase web site:

http://www.chesslive.de/

although that is not usable on my PDA since it needs Java. In any case,
unless the interface has been optimised for a PDA, it would be very
difficult to use.

We can live in hope that they might get around to fixing it. Given the
high profile this feature is given on their web page, had I just bought
a copy and found it did not work, I'd seek a refund.

I'm sure if paid by credit card, the credit card company would give a
refund if you show that one of the features advertised simply does not
work. It needs a few people to buy it and put in a claim with their
credit card company for a refund before Chessbase might get of their
***** and fix the problem they have created.

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)


   
Date: 30 Aug 2006 11:00:11
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
Dave (from the UK) <[email protected] > wrote:
> (lets say 1.e6 e6)

I'd rather we didn't! :-)


Dave.

--
David Richerby Expensive Dictator (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ totalitarian leader but it'll break
the bank!


    
Date: 30 Aug 2006 14:42:09
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
David Richerby wrote:
> Dave (from the UK) <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>(lets say 1.e6 e6)
>
>
> I'd rather we didn't! :-)
>
>
> Dave.
>
Why not, it means the board can be smaller if we places the pieces on
top of each other!

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)


 
Date: 28 Aug 2006 15:02:37
From: mike
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
I just sent a plea for PF3.

ChessBase's lack of support is becoming legendary. I certainly would never
risk $400 on their flagship product.




  
Date: 29 Aug 2006 17:34:54
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
mike wrote:
> I just sent a plea for PF3.

Don't hold your breath, since the email I received a few days ago from
Peter Schreiner at chessbase, said he had not heard anything about a
Pocket Fritz 3.

It's a shame really, as it would give Pocket Grandmaster some serious
competition. At the minute, that seems to be the leading product in this
category.

The one feature that Pocket Fritz had which Pocket Grandmaster does not
have (access to an online database) seems to have been broken now.

> ChessBase's lack of support is becoming legendary.

I was not aware of that, but the email I received a few hours ago seems
to back up your point. I've copied part below.

me > Thanks a lot. Perhaps they might just act on it.

me > I find it very odd that changes that stops a useful
me > feature of an application you sell from working, is
me > not made a high priority.

chessbase > From
chessbase > Peter Schreiner
chessbase > ChessBase GmbH

chessbase > Hello,


chessbase > I informed the developers again.
chessbase > The feature does not have a high priority, but
chessbase > it should naturally work !

chessbase > Kind regards
chessbase > -Peter Schreiner

So despite being made aware of this be several people over a period of
months, they don't consider it a high priority. (I've got builders
working on the house at the minute, and their attitude is very similar -
nothing is high priority for them).

> I certainly would never
> risk $400 on their flagship product.

No, me neither. If it suddenly stops working with their web site and you
are unable to look up moves of a game, it wont be a high priority to fix
it !!!

It's times like this you realise the advantage of open-source software.
Support is generally *much* better.

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)


   
Date: 30 Aug 2006 10:59:17
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
Dave (from the UK) <[email protected] > wrote:
> mike wrote:
>> ChessBase's lack of support is becoming legendary.
>
> I was not aware of that, but the email I received a few hours ago seems
> to back up your point. I've copied part below.
> [...]
> So despite being made aware of this be several people over a period
> of months, they don't consider it a high priority.

Well, to be fair, you don't know what else is on their plate.


> (I've got builders working on the house at the minute, and their
> attitude is very similar - nothing is high priority for them).

What, not even drinking tea and eyeing up any women within a hundred
yards? Very slack.


>> I certainly would never risk $400 on their flagship product.
>
> No, me neither. If it suddenly stops working with their web site and
> you are unable to look up moves of a game, it wont be a high
> priority to fix it !!!

Chessbase's flagship product is their database software. It doesn't
need to look up the moves of the game from their website because you
already have the database locally.


> It's times like this you realise the advantage of open-source
> software. Support is generally *much* better.

That's a gross generalization. There are hundreds of dead open-source
projects for which one can only obtain support if one is willing to
count help from other users as support (and one certainly wouldn't for
a commercial product). There have been plenty of cases where I've
gone so far as to mail a patch to an open-source developer and not
even received an acknowledgment. On the other hand, there have been
plenty of cases where I've received excellent support from open-
source developers. It's a very mixed bag.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Impossible Gigantic Tool (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a hammer but it's huge and it
can't exist!


    
Date: 30 Aug 2006 15:05:26
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
David Richerby wrote:
> Dave (from the UK) <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>mike wrote:
>>
>>>ChessBase's lack of support is becoming legendary.
>>
>>I was not aware of that, but the email I received a few hours ago seems
>>to back up your point. I've copied part below.
>>[...]
>>So despite being made aware of this be several people over a period
>>of months, they don't consider it a high priority.
>
>
> Well, to be fair, you don't know what else is on their plate.

No, but a few months they have been aware of this. I would not mind if
it was their web site broken in some other way, but when they break it
in such a way to disable arguably the best feature of Pocket Fritz 2, I
think its not unreasonable they sort the problem out in less time than
they appear to want to do.


>>(I've got builders working on the house at the minute, and their
>>attitude is very similar - nothing is high priority for them).
>
>
> What, not even drinking tea

I would not know - getting them to turn up is hard enough!

> and eyeing up any women within a hundred
> yards? Very slack.

I live in a rural area, so there are only 4 women within 100 yards and
only one who is under 50, so it's not the ideal place for looking at the
local females. Perhaps that is why getting them to do the work is hard!!!

>>>I certainly would never risk $400 on their flagship product.
>>
>>No, me neither. If it suddenly stops working with their web site and
>>you are unable to look up moves of a game, it wont be a high
>>priority to fix it !!!
>
>
> Chessbase's flagship product is their database software. It doesn't
> need to look up the moves of the game from their website because you
> already have the database locally.

OK. But I assume one has to update the database from their web site?

>>It's times like this you realise the advantage of open-source
>>software. Support is generally *much* better.
>
>
> That's a gross generalization. There are hundreds of dead open-source
> projects for which one can only obtain support if one is willing to
> count help from other users as support (and one certainly wouldn't for
> a commercial product).

But when the other users have access to the source code, it gives other
users an advantage over the uses of closed-source software.

> There have been plenty of cases where I've
> gone so far as to mail a patch to an open-source developer and not
> even received an acknowledgment.

I don't deny that. People tend to loose interest in their open-source
products after a while.

> On the other hand, there have been
> plenty of cases where I've received excellent support from open-
> source developers.

Yes, me too.

> It's a very mixed bag.

True, but generally I find support better. Adding the word "generally"
means I accept it is a generalization.

I will only tend to use free programs that are well supported. Finding
those which are well supported is easy with open-source products.

With commercial products you don't normally find out how good or bad the
support is until after you have bought the product and need the support.

All too often I have found that if you try to obtain support on
commercial products you end up paying a premium rate phone call to speak
to someone who clearly knows far less about the product than you. My
first experience of this was with QEMM (an old memory manager that
worked under DOS). The lady in technical support clearly knew far less
than I did about QEMM.

>
> Dave.
>


--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)


     
Date: 30 Aug 2006 15:45:33
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
Dave (from the UK) <[email protected] > wrote:
> David Richerby wrote:
>> Dave (from the UK) <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> (I've got builders working on the house at the minute, and their
>>> attitude is very similar - nothing is high priority for them).
>>
>> What, not even drinking tea and eyeing up any women within a
>> hundred yards? Very slack.
>
> I live in a rural area, so there are only 4 women within 100 yards
> and only one who is under 50, so it's not the ideal place for
> looking at the local females. Perhaps that is why getting them to do
> the work is hard!!!

That'll be it, yes. Try hiring strippers?


>> Chessbase's flagship product is their database software. It doesn't
>> need to look up the moves of the game from their website because you
>> already have the database locally.
>
> OK. But I assume one has to update the database from their web site?

Not sure. I'd assumed that one had to pay another few hundred bucks
to upgrade to version n+1 next year.


>>> It's times like this you realise the advantage of open-source
>>> software. Support is generally *much* better.
>>
>> It's a very mixed bag.
>
> True, but generally I find support better. Adding the word
> "generally" means I accept it is a generalization.

Point. :-)


> All too often I have found that if you try to obtain support on
> commercial products you end up paying a premium rate phone call to
> speak to someone who clearly knows far less about the product than
> you. My first experience of this was with QEMM (an old memory
> manager that worked under DOS). The lady in technical support
> clearly knew far less than I did about QEMM.

That's because it's very easy to fix computer software so you don't
need to know anything about it. All you have to do is reboot your
computer, switch off your firewall and reboot again. If that doesn't
work, uninstall the software and reinstall it. If that doesn't work,
uninstall the operating system and reinstall it. If *that* doesn't
work, there must be something wrong with your computer because all
software is perfect.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Solar-Powered Cheese (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a brick of cheese but it doesn't work
in the dark!


  
Date: 28 Aug 2006 21:34:14
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
mike wrote:
> I just sent a plea for PF3.

I asked about a new release:

My Question:
---------------
Do you have any plans to develop Pocket Fritz 2 to a Pocket Fritz 3 or
whatever? One feature I'd very much like to see (and I think many others
would too), is the ability to play online games on ICC, FICS and similar.

Their reply:
---------------
In the moment I don`t hear anything about a Pocket Fritz 3 from our
developer tam. Playing on a Chess server with a Pocket PC or a Mobile
Phone is interesting..

> ChessBase's lack of support is becoming legendary.

That a way to loose customers.

> I certainly would never
> risk $400 on their flagship product.

I'd look at scid. That could do with developing more, but it is quite a
usable tool at a cost of $0.00. Being open-source, others can fix things
if there is a problem. The interface is not exactly intuitive, but its
fine once you are used to it.

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)


   
Date: 29 Aug 2006 10:23:08
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
Dave (from the UK) <[email protected] > wrote:
> My Question:
> ---------------
> Do you have any plans to develop Pocket Fritz 2 to a Pocket Fritz 3
> or whatever? One feature I'd very much like to see (and I think many
> others would too), is the ability to play online games on ICC, FICS
> and similar.

Very little chance of that. Chessbase have their own chess server
(www.playchess.com) and I'd be very surprised if they added support
for their rivals. Note that playchess.com requires a subscription but
you get a year for free with many chessbase products.


>> ChessBase's lack of support is becoming legendary.
>
> That a way to loose customers.

There's no commercial competition.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Disposable Electronic Umbrella (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like an umbrella but it uses
electricity and you never have to
clean it!


    
Date: 29 Aug 2006 17:42:40
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
David Richerby wrote:
> Dave (from the UK) <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>My Question:
>>---------------
>>Do you have any plans to develop Pocket Fritz 2 to a Pocket Fritz 3
>>or whatever? One feature I'd very much like to see (and I think many
>>others would too), is the ability to play online games on ICC, FICS
>>and similar.
>
>
> Very little chance of that. Chessbase have their own chess server
> (www.playchess.com) and I'd be very surprised if they added support
> for their rivals. Note that playchess.com requires a subscription but
> you get a year for free with many chessbase products.


Although it Pocket Grandmaster ever do it (and I have reason to belive
they are considering it), then they might find it hard to well Pocket
Fritz.


>>>ChessBase's lack of support is becoming legendary.
>>
>>That a way to loose customers.
>
>
> There's no commercial competition.

There is competition in the PDA ket from Pocket Grandmaster, as well
as over 70 other chess programs on that platform (some are pretty
useless it must be said).

Then there are open-source programs database programs like 'scid' and
others. If chessbase ****-off their customers (as they have me over
(Pocket Fritz 2), people will look at other products, either free or
commercial.


--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)


     
Date: 30 Aug 2006 10:51:22
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
Dave (from the UK) <[email protected] > wrote:
> David Richerby wrote:
>> Dave (from the UK) <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> One feature I'd very much like to see (and I think many others
>>> would too), is the ability to play online games on ICC, FICS and
>>> similar.
>>
>> Very little chance of that. Chessbase have their own chess server
>> (www.playchess.com) and I'd be very surprised if they added support
>> for their rivals.
>
> Although it Pocket Grandmaster ever do it (and I have reason to belive
> they are considering it), then they might find it hard to well Pocket
> Fritz.

I'm sorry -- I can't understand that sentence. :-)


>>>> ChessBase's lack of support is becoming legendary.
>>>
>>> That a way to loose customers.
>>
>> There's no commercial competition.
>
> There is competition in the PDA ket from Pocket Grandmaster

OK. There's no commercial competition in the desktop ket, though.


> Then there are open-source programs database programs like 'scid'
> and others. If chessbase ****-off their customers (as they have me
> over (Pocket Fritz 2), people will look at other products, either
> free or commercial.

Sure but I think a large fraction of the ket is so hooked on the
idea that software costs money that they'll never consider the free
options. `Computer experts' will consider using SCID and what have
you but Chessbase's target ket is `chess players'.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Electronic Cheese (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a brick of cheese but it uses
electricity!


      
Date: 30 Aug 2006 14:37:44
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
David Richerby wrote:

>>Although it Pocket Grandmaster ever do it (and I have reason to belive
>>they are considering it), then they might find it hard to well Pocket
>>Fritz.
>
>
> I'm sorry -- I can't understand that sentence. :-)

Sorry - I would admit is was poorly put!!

What I mean is that if Kai Skibbe & Frank Schneider (the two developers
of PocketGrandmaster)

http://www.pocketgrandmaster.com/english/index.html

ever add online chess support (FICS & ICC in particular) and Chessbase
fail to add such support in Pocket Fritz, then Chessbase might have
problems selling Pocket Fritz.

PocketGrandmaster usually beats Pocket Fritz in reviews now and so
adding the online play will reduce Pocket Fritz's attraction even more.

I've got both Pocket Grandmaster and Pocket Fritz on my PDA. Overall I
prefer Pocket Grandmaster, although the database facility in Pocket
Fritz was useful when it worked. Unfortunately, neither Pocket Fritz or
Pocket Grandmaster support online play and the only two chess programs
do (Intellichess and ThinkerBoard) are much poorer in other respects -
in particular their user interfaces are very poor.

The Intellichess web site looks good

http://www.intellichess.com/

but its a shame their software developers are not as good as their web
developers!!! The program is *really* bad. I don't know if they actually
get many people pay for registered copies, but I doubt it very much.

The *ideal* chess program on the PDA would have a mix of the features of
the current programs on PDAs.

1) Nice Interface that PocketGrandmaster has.
http://www.geocities.com/thechessthinker/

2) Online chess support that ThinkerBoard has.
http://www.geocities.com/thechessthinker/

3) Online database support (when it worked) of Pocket Fritz.
http://www.chessbase.com/shop/product.asp?pid=152

4) Excellent support for viewing editing PGN files that CE Board has.
http://www.zanchetta.net/CEBoard/default.htm

5) Tactics training that Pocket Fritz has.

6) Tablebase support that CE board has

7) Good support from the developers which PocketGrandmaster has.

8) User customisable Opening Books which I know some support, but I'm
not sure which ones.

9) FEN support of Pocket Fritz.

10) Free demos, which all have, except Pocket Fritz.

11) Available for immediate download which all are except Pocket Fritz.

Being open-source and free would be nice too, but I am practical about
what is likely to be achieved.

The strength of the chess engines is never going to be as strong as
those on fast power-hungry desktop processors, but the top ones are well
over 2000 ELO so good enough for most people to play against.

FWIW, on my PDA I have ThinkerBoaed (best online chess support, cost is
$0.00), PocketGrandmaster (best interface), Pocket Fritz (online
database support when it worked) and CE board (best PGN support).

I've tried many others and have usually deleted them in less time that
is took to install them. Some are *really* bad indeed. Some don't appear
to know the rules of chess for example.

>>There is competition in the PDA ket from Pocket Grandmaster
>
>
> OK. There's no commercial competition in the desktop ket, though.

That might be so. I've not looked much, as I don't tend to use Windows
on x86 hardware more than necessary.

But in the PDA ket there is a huge number of chess games, although
the difference in quality between the best and the worst is huge.

There's a 57 page review of 24 Palm and 39 Pocket PC chess programs at:

http://www.grailmaster.com/misc/chess/comp/chessrev/chessreview.html

For Pocket PC (the most common platform), PocketGrandmaster was the
winner with Pocket Fritz in third place.


>>Then there are open-source programs database programs like 'scid'
>>and others. If chessbase ****-off their customers (as they have me
>>over (Pocket Fritz 2), people will look at other products, either
>>free or commercial.
>
>
> Sure but I think a large fraction of the ket is so hooked on the
> idea that software costs money that they'll

I think Linux must be reducing the fraction that will not consider free
alternatives.

I realise Windows is still much more popular than Linux (especially on
the desktop), but the increasing popularity of Linux must be introducing
people to the idea that there is good free software around.

> `Computer experts' will consider using SCID and what have
> you but Chessbase's target ket is `chess players'.

I've no idea how many 'Chess Players' use scid, but given it runs on
Windows, and UNIX and is free on both platforms, I suspect there are
quite a few. If Chessbase put off customers with poor support, which
someone said is legendary, then the fraction looking at alternatives
will only increase.

There must be a large number of chess players that can't afford the
commercial products.

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)


       
Date: 30 Aug 2006 15:39:36
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
By the way, your monthly E-mail address rotator seems to be a few
months out of date.

Dave (from the UK) <[email protected] > wrote:
> David Richerby wrote:
>> Dave (from the UK) <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Although it Pocket Grandmaster ever do it (and I have reason to
>>> belive they are considering it), then they might find it hard to
>>> well Pocket Fritz.
>>
>> I'm sorry -- I can't understand that sentence. :-)
>
> Sorry - I would admit is was poorly put!!

Ah -- from your explanation, I now understand that `it' is a typo for
`if' and `well' for `sell'. Amazing how much difference two letters
can make!


> I think Linux must be reducing the fraction that will not consider
> free alternatives.

Not significantly. I'd wager that most computer users think that
`Linux is hard to use'. Consider, for example, the number of people
who complain here about how difficult it is to use the textual
commands on FICS. So, if Linux, the paragon of free software is hard
to use, all the other stuff must be, too. And commandlines are, like,
so backward. So all the other stuff must be that, too.


>> `Computer experts' will consider using SCID and what have you but
>> Chessbase's target ket is `chess players'.
>
> I've no idea how many 'Chess Players' use scid, but given it runs on
> Windows, and UNIX and is free on both platforms, I suspect there are
> quite a few.

I suspect they're mainly chess players who are also `computer
experts'.


> There must be a large number of chess players that can't afford the
> commercial products.

Definitely. And who can't afford computers powerful enough to run the
commercial products.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Hungry Radioactive Drink (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a refreshing juice beverage but
it'll make you glow in the dark and
eat you!


        
Date: 30 Aug 2006 16:44:40
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: Pocket Fritz 2 - please complain to chessbase
David Richerby wrote:
> By the way, your monthly E-mail address rotator seems to be a few
> months out of date.

Yes, I am aware of this. It not set automatically, but I change the
reply to address once/month manually in the options on the browser. For
reasons I can't work out, it then seems to go back to another month. I
don't know where it is storing the old address and what makes it decide
randomly to change it!!

I'll have to look into this. THANKS FOR REMINDING ME.

>>Sorry - I would admit is was poorly put!!
>
>
> Ah -- from your explanation, I now understand that `it' is a typo for
> `if' and `well' for `sell'. Amazing how much difference two letters
> can make!

Yes, and the use of "they" a lot of times is probably not too helpful.

>>I think Linux must be reducing the fraction that will not consider
>>free alternatives.
>
>
> Not significantly. I'd wager that most computer users think that
> `Linux is hard to use'. Consider, for example, the number of people
> who complain here about how difficult it is to use the textual
> commands on FICS. So, if Linux, the paragon of free software is hard
> to use, all the other stuff must be, too. And commandlines are, like,
> so backward. So all the other stuff must be that, too.

Looking in the local news agents (W H Smith for example) there are tons
of computer magazines and tons of them have Linux distros on the front
covers, even if you buy "Personal Computer World" or other mag which is
not Linux specific.

I would think a lot of people try Linux this way. They might well find
it hard to use, since there is a steep learning curve. But once you are
a decent way up that curve, you realise just how slow windows is at
doing things you can do in a few seconds on the command line.

BTW, I don't run Linux myself:

teal /export/home/drkirkby % uname -a
SunOS teal 5.10 Generic_118833-17 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-80


>>>`Computer experts' will consider using SCID and what have you but
>>>Chessbase's target ket is `chess players'.
>>
>>I've no idea how many 'Chess Players' use scid, but given it runs on
>>Windows, and UNIX and is free on both platforms, I suspect there are
>>quite a few.
>
>
> I suspect they're mainly chess players who are also `computer
> experts'.

True. I'm not sure how hard scid is to use compared to Chessbase, since
I've never used the latter.

>>There must be a large number of chess players that can't afford the
>>commercial products.
>
>
> Definitely. And who can't afford computers powerful enough to run the
> commercial products.

True, although lack of CPU power is always going to be an issue for deep
analysis, no matter if you use a commercial product or a free one.

Is Sanny going to develop his program so it can analyse games and report
on the best moves? That would be 'interesting'.

--
Dave (from the UK)

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It is always of the form: [email protected]
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http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)