Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.

Main

Date: 26 Jan 2008 23:24:09
From: Sanny
Subject: Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.

Here is a game between Help Bot & Normal Level. See what mistake
Normal did that it lost the match in 60 moves. Since both are very
strong players and they both thought 1-2 min per move so it would need
very long calculations and analysis to find weakness in the game.

If you think there was any mistake by Normal Level [Strategical
Mistake] or [Tactical Mistake] then let me know it.

Game Played between help bot and normal at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
normal: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM15169&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(normal) -- (help bot)

1. e2-e4{2} c7-c5{10}
2. Ng1-f3{0} d7-d6{4}
3. d2-d4{0} c5-d4{4}
4. Nf3-d4{0} Ng8-f6{6}
5. Nb1-c3{132} e7-e6{24}
6. Bc1-e3{108} Bf8-e7{26}
7. h2-h3{112} Ke8-g8{16}
8. g2-g4{124} d6-d5{40}
9. e4-e5{140} Nf6-d7{12}
10. f2-f4{138} Be7-h4{18}
11. Ke1-d2{122} Bh4-e7{92}
12. Kd2-e1{124} Nb8-c6{30}
13. g4-g5{104} Be7-b4{50}
14. Bf1-g2{208} Nd7-b6{120}
15. Bg2-f3{114} Nb6-c4{26}
16. Be3-c1{104} Qd8-a5{58}
17. Qd1-d3{82} Bc8-d7{134}
18. Nd4-b3{92} Qa5-b6{70}
19. Ke1-f1{80} Ra8-c8{144}
20. Nc3-d5{88} e6-d5{62}
21. Bf3-d5{162} Nc6-b8{56}
22. Bd5-e4{164} Nc4-e5{78}
23. Qd3-e3{120} Qb6-e3{78}
24. Bc1-e3{94} Bd7-c6{34}
25. Be4-c6{110} Ne5-c6{12}
26. a2-a3{104} Bb4-e7{50}
27. Ra1-e1{160} Rf8-e8{54}
28. h3-h4{124} b7-b6{150}
29. h4-h5{126} Be7-f8{44}
30. h5-h6{136} g7-g6{22}
31. f4-f5{106} Nc6-e7{128}
32. f5-g6{90} f7-g6{8}
33. Nb3-d4{90} Ne7-d5{32}
34. Be3-f2{112} Re8-e1{42}
35. Kf1-e1{84} Nb8-c6{48}
36. Rh1-h4{98} Bf8-e7{40}
37. Rh4-e4{82} Be7-g5{190}
38. Nd4-c6{80} Rc8-c6{14}
39. Re4-e5{116} Bg5-h6{18}
40. Re5-d5{106} Rc6-c2{22}
41. Bf2-d4{108} Rc2-c7{206}
42. b2-b4{98} Bh6-g7{56}
43. Rd5-d8{122} Kg8-f7{8}
44. Ke1-f1{128} Kf7-e7{60}
45. Rd8-d5{110} Ke7-e6{22}
46. Rd5-d8{104} Bg7-d4{46}
47. Rd8-d4{96} g6-g5{34}
48. b4-b5{168} h7-h5{26}
49. a3-a4{120} Rc7-f7{56}
50. Kf1-g2{138} Rf7-f4{22}
51. Rd4-f4{126} g5-f4{6}
52. Kg2-h2{150} Ke6-e5{30}
53. Kh2-h1{104} Ke5-e4{12}
54. Kh1-h2{80} f4-f3{38}
55. Kh2-g3{132} Ke4-e3{10}
56. a4-a5{114} f3-f2{24}
57. a5-b6{82} Qf2-f1{Q}{24}
58. b6-b7{118} Qf1-f3{52}
59. Kg3-h4{118}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
normal: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM15169&game=Chess

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at:: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.

Date: 30 Jan 2008 04:31:01
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.

With little more improvents GetClub played much better today but
Beginner Level lost to Jester.

Here is the game Below. You can see the moves by Beginner is now much
better. But still it lost 2 Pawns and White was able to Queen with
Extra Pawns.

Was there any way to save those Pawns?

Game Played between Jester and beginner at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jester: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM15313&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(Jester) -- (beginner)

1. e2-e4{6} e7-e5{2}
2. Nb1-c3{6} Ng8-f6{0}
3. Ng1-f3{6} Nb8-c6{0}
4. g2-g3{6} Bf8-c5{10}
5. Bf1-g2{8} Ke8-g8{6}
6. d2-d3{12} d7-d6{14}
7. Nc3-a4{10} Bc5-b6{18}
8. Na4-b6{10} a7-b6{10}
9. h2-h3{10} d6-d5{22}
10. e4-d5{10} Nf6-d5{20}
11. Ke1-g1{10} h7-h6{10}
12. Rf1-e1{12} Rf8-e8{12}
13. Bc1-d2{10} Nd5-f6{22}
14. Bd2-c3{12} Qd8-d6{22}
15. Nf3-d2{10} Bc8-e6{22}
16. a2-a3{14} Re8-d8{6}
17. Qd1-e2{14} Nc6-d4{8}
18. Bc3-d4{12} e5-d4{10}
19. Nd2-e4{18} Nf6-e4{6}
20. Qe2-e4{10} Be6-d7{6}
21. Ra1-d1{32} Bd7-c6{6}
22. Qe4-e7{28} Bc6-g2{8}
23. Qe7-d6{10} Rd8-d6{10}
24. Kg1-g2{10} f7-f5{18} {Is this move Wrong?}
25. Re1-e7{22} Rd6-c6{16}
26. Rd1-d2{18} Kg8-h8{22}
27. Rd2-e2{10} Ra8-a5{16}
28. Re7-f7{12} Kh8-g8{6}
29. Re2-e7{10} g7-g5{6}
30. Rf7-g7{14} Kg8-h8{18}
31. Rg7-h7{14} Kh8-g8{18}
32. Re7-g7{12} Kg8-f8{10}
33. Rg7-c7{10} Rc6-c7{6}
34. Rh7-c7{10} Kf8-g8{16}
35. Rc7-b7{10} Ra5-c5{12}
36. Rb7-b6{10} Kg8-h7{22}
37. a3-a4{12} Rc5-c2{20}
38. a4-a5{8} f5-f4{10}
39. g3-f4{10} g5-f4{10}
40. a5-a6{12} Rc2-e2{22}
41. a6-a7{10} Re2-e5{22}
42. Qa7-a8{Q}{12} Re5-e7{22}
43. Kg2-f3{12} Re7-f7{16}
44. Qa8-c6{14} Kh7-g8{10}
45. Qc6-h6{8} Rf7-f5{22}
46. Rb6-b7{10} Rf5-e5{12}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jester: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM15313&game=Chess

Bye
Sanny

24. Kg1-g2{10} f7-f5{18} {Is this move Wrong?} Because after that
White took 2 pawns. Is there any way by which Two pawns could be
saved. As after 16 moves White gains 2 Pawns.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.

Date: 29 Jan 2008 22:27:19
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.

> So far so good.
>
> > 15. g2-g4{6} c6-d5{68}
>
> In heavens name why? This is a horrible losing move!
> It wrecks a promising position by giving away the d pawn for no
> compensation.
> Strongest was 15. d6 =A0with equality but Bxf6, c4 or dxc6 might be
> tolerable.

It played 15. g4 as BxN(h3) Then gxh3 Would made Double pawn at h
file. and playing d6 the pawn would not be defendable what if Black
plays R-d8 followed by Ne8. How will we defend the pawn at d6 then?

And one pawn was always going. See 15. Qxb2. So there was no way to
save one Pawn.

If we save d5 then b2 will go. If we save b2 then d5 would go. And
BxN(h3) would have made double pawn at h3 and h2. So to avoid double
pawn formation weakening the King it played 15. g2-g4

> > 19. f2-f3{6} d4-d3{252}
>
> 19. f3 is terminally stupid and demostrates a serious problem with the
> programs look ahead.

Beginner Level sees 8-10 depth deep and this move was 12 depth long so
it was unable to see the threath. I hope Easy level would have seen
such threath.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.

Date: 29 Jan 2008 08:42:01
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.

Good Analysis.

Here is another game for analysis.

Game Played between Stinky Garlnoot and beginner at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stinky Garlnoot: (Black)
beginner: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM15250&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(beginner) -- (Stinky Garlnoot)

1. Nb1-c3{8} d7-d5{6}
2. d2-d4{8} Ng8-f6{6}
3. Bc1-g5{6} g7-g6{6}
4. a2-a3{6} Bf8-g7{10}
5. e2-e3{10} Ke8-g8{16}
6. Bf1-e2{16} Nb8-d7{46}
7. Be2-f3{6} c7-c6{70}
8. Ng1-h3{8} Qd8-b6{168}
9. Nc3-a4{6} Qb6-a6{324}
10. Na4-c3{14} e7-e5{32}
11. Bf3-e2{10} Qa6-b6{20}
12. Ke1-g1{6} Nf6-e4{100}
13. Nc3-e4{6} d5-e4{4}
14. d4-d5{6} Nd7-f6{68}
15. g2-g4{6} c6-d5{68}
16. b2-b3{12} d5-d4{70}
17. Kg1-h1{6} h7-h5{328}
18. e3-d4{8} e5-d4{34}
19. f2-f3{6} d4-d3{252}
20. c2-d3{6} e4-f3{12}
21. Be2-f3{6} h5-g4{16}
22. Nh3-f4{16} g4-f3{34}
23. Qd1-f3{8} Qb6-b3{78}
24. Bg5-h4{6} Bc8-f5{142}
25. Ra1-b1{6} Qb3-a3{40}
26. Rb1-b7{6} Ra8-b8{102}
27. Nf4-g6{6} Bf5-g6{110}
28. Rb7-b8{8} Rf8-b8{118}
29. Bh4-f6{6} Qa3-d3{44}
30. Kh1-g1{8} Qd3-f3{102}
31. Rf1-f3{6} Bg7-f6{34}
32. Rf3-f6{10} a7-a5{6}
33. Rf6-f4{10} Rb8-b4{32}
34. Rf4-f2{6} a5-a4{22}
35. h2-h3{6} a4-a3{18}
36. Rf2-d2{6} Rb4-b1{12}
37. Kg1-h2{12} Rb1-b2{4}
38. Rd2-g2{8} Rb2-g2{46}
39. Kh2-g2{10} a3-a2{2}
40. h3-h4{6} Qa2-a1{Q}{18}
41. Kg2-f2{10} Qa1-c3{6}
42. h4-h5{6} Bg6-h5{10}
43. Kf2-g2{10}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stinky Garlnoot: (Black)
beginner: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM15250&game=Chess

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.

Date: 29 Jan 2008 01:42:31
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.

> =A0 No computer "thinks" that way; even strong
> programs will object to hanging a pawn for
> nothing here, and unless its algorithm allows
> for full-pawn sacrifices just to keep a pair of
> Rooks on the board, would do this sort of
> thing. =A0GetClubdoes not see far enough
> ahead to comprehend that the pawns will
> Queen by force. =A0Even a few moves later when
> it began chucking pawns, it was only because
> this gained material or else delayed the pawn
> promotion, *not* as part of a strategy to enable
> the possibility of a stalemate, as a clever
> human player might have attempted.

Today GetClub Chess was further Improved. Now it will be very
difficult to win Beginner Level than it used to be earlier . Earlier
Jester used to win in 50-60 Moves. But today it took 67 Moves to win.

Today after improving the GetClub Game, I tried with Jester here is
the Game. Beginner Vs Jester.

Game Played between Jester and beginner at GetClub.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
Jester:: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM15232&game=3D=
Chess
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

White -- Black
(Jester:) -- (beginner)

1. e2-e4{6} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{6} Nb8-c6{0}
3. Bf1-b5{6} a7-a6{0}
4. Bb5-c6{6} d7-c6{8}
5. Nb1-c3{8} f7-f6{6}
6. Ke1-g1{10} Bf8-c5{6}
7. d2-d3{12} Ng8-e7{10}
8. Nc3-a4{12} Bc5-a7{10}
9. Bc1-d2{10} Ke8-g8{6}
10. Bd2-b4{10} b7-b5{8}
11. Bb4-e7{10} Qd8-e7{8}
12. Na4-c3{10} b5-b4{12}
13. Nc3-a4{10} Qe7-d6{6}
14. Nf3-d2{12} Bc8-e6{16}
15. Qd1-h5{12} Be6-f7{6}
16. Qh5-h4{12} h7-h5{6}
17. a2-a3{10} b4-a3{16}
18. Ra1-a3{10} Rf8-b8{10}
19. Ra3-a1{14} Ba7-d4{10}
20. Rf1-b1{20} g7-g5{12}
21. Qh4-h3{46} Bd4-a7{6}
22. Na4-c3{12} g5-g4{6}
23. Qh3-h4{12} Ba7-d4{8}
24. Nc3-d1{10} Rb8-b6{6}
25. Nd2-c4{26} Bf7-c4{6}
26. d3-c4{12} f6-f5{6}
27. Qh4-g5{18} Kg8-f8{10}
28. Qg5-f5{16} Kf8-g8{8}
29. Qf5-h5{10} g4-g3{8}
30. h2-g3{10} Bd4-c5{10}
31. Ra1-a5{14} Ra8-f8{6}
32. Rb1-a1{14} Rb6-b8{6}
33. Ra5-a6{10} Qd6-f6{8}
34. Qh5-g4{10} Kg8-h8{6}
35. Qg4-h4{8} Kh8-g8{10}
36. Qh4-f6{10} Rf8-f6{8}
37. Ra6-a5{10} Bc5-d6{6}
38. b2-b3{10} Rb8-f8{8}
39. f2-f3{12} Kg8-h8{10}
40. Nd1-e3{16} c6-c5{8}
41. Ra5-a7{12} Bd6-e7{6}
42. Ra7-c7{22} Be7-d6{6}
43. Rc7-c6{10} Bd6-e7{6}
44. Rc6-f6{10} Rf8-f6{8}
45. Ne3-d5{12} Rf6-e6{6}
46. Nd5-e7{10} Re6-e7{6}
47. Ra1-a8{10} Kh8-g7{8}
48. Ra8-c8{10} Re7-a7{6}
49. Rc8-c5{16} Ra7-e7{6}
50. Kg1-f2{10} Kg7-h8{6}
51. Kf2-e3{10} Re7-d7{8}
52. Rc5-e5{10} Rd7-h7{8}
53. Ke3-d2{12} Rh7-h2{6}
54. Re5-g5{10} Rh2-g2{6}
55. Kd2-d3{10} Kh8-h7{6}
56. c4-c5{10} Rg2-h2{6}
57. c5-c6{10} Rh2-h6{6}
58. Rg5-c5{10} Rh6-g6{8}
59. c6-c7{10} Rg6-g8{12}
60. Qc7-c8{Q}{12} Rg8-c8{8}
61. Rc5-c8{10} Kh7-g7{12}
62. b3-b4{10} Kg7-h7{6}
63. b4-b5{8} Kh7-g6{8}
64. b5-b6{10} Kg6-f7{6}
65. b6-b7{10} Kf7-g7{6}
66. Qb7-b8{Q}{8} Kg7-f7{6}
67. Qb8-a7{10} Kf7-e7{6}
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
Jester: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM15232&game=3D=
Chess

Is the game now playing OK, Or are you finding any mistake in GetClub
Beginner Level Moves? Please indicate which moves are wrong So that I
may correct them.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 28 Jan 2008 17:36:55
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.

On Jan 28, 5:16 am, tin Brown <

Date: 28 Jan 2008 09:49:16
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.

> > At 14th move King is at e1 how can it make its king to Kg2??? Should
> > it =A0jump like a knight? Or you are saying Kf2?
>
> Obviously should be 14. Kf2
>

I think king should never go up in Middle game as there is risk of
being killed. So it should be in the first lane always so that it is
far away from opponent pieces.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.

Date: 28 Jan 2008 03:14:27
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.

> This is sufficiently far off the plot that had the program chosen a
> move at entirely random from the 38 possibilities it would have a
> better than evens chance of improving things over the move chosen. =A0My
> instinct is that 14. Bd3 would be very playable (although Shredder
> preferred 14. Kg2). It took an overnight run and 12h at 20 ply before
> it agreed with my instincts and ranked Bd3 as the strongest move (Kg2
> was still pretty good but I don't like it).

At 14th move King is at e1 how can it make its king to Kg2??? Should
it jump like a knight? Or you are saying Kf2?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Please analyze Game between Normal + HelpBot.