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Main
Date: 25 Aug 2007 08:03:27
From: Sanny
Subject: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
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Today 2 errors were removed which make GetClub Chess much better than
it was ever back.
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
The two strange errors were removed which were causing it to play
weaker moves.
Now, It will play best moves without errors.
However it will take a little longer on some moves which needs more
analysis. While it will play very fast in most of the cases.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 27 Aug 2007 18:44:19
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
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On Aug 25, 4:31 pm, Kenneth Sloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> Sanny wrote:
> > Today 2 errors were removed which make GetClub Chess much better than
> > it was ever back.
>
> > Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> > The two strange errors were removed which were causing it to play
> > weaker moves.
>
> > Now, It will play best moves without errors.
>
> > However it will take a little longer on some moves which needs more
> > analysis. While it will play very fast in most of the cases.
>
> So, does it forfeit on time when it oversteps the time control? Or,
> does it still cheat?
I was finally able to manage to reach the screen where
you play against Sanny's computer once again, and for
some reason my former game was gone and it allowed
me to start a new one. Just to be safe, I chose the
quickest-moving level and wham, we blasted through
some book opening moves without a hitch. But as soon
as the program went out of book (HA! I know more than
Sanny does about the openings), it slowed down. As
more and more pieces were developed, it slowed to a
crawl and in fact, it seems to be taking a half-hour per
move as I type this post.
The good news is the program has not yet hung any
material whatever, and is playing okay. But this kind
of speed is simply unacceptable; I'd rather it was taking
two minutes per move and hanging pawns, so at least
we could complete a game once in a while.
-- help bot
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 15:06:10
From: Rob
Subject: Re: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
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On Aug 26, 3:01 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "help bot" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > On Aug 26, 9:18 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > The punishment should fit the crime.
>
> > I just happen to have a book here on the Latvian
> > Gambit, so I thought, what the heck? I'll try it out
> > against some really weak player and see what
> > happens. The problem arises when I am just
> > following along the authors' analysis, and take their
> > enthusiastic use of exclamation points to mean
> > that White has serious trouble gaining any edge
> > versus his favorite move (5. ...Qf7!).
>
> White has 3 choices at move 3. I just tried two of them last week, with some
> advantage, which line is this?
>
> Essentially there is [3] Bc4, Nxe5 and ef. I tried the first two.
>
> Seems to me the only way to play the 'Latvian' is the deferred means of
> playing it against the Ruy, [Schliemann] either directly or after a6, [the
> deferred] which has a certain preference.
>
> Phil
>
> > Unfortunately,
> > despite being completely unfamiliar with this
> > opening, I can recognize a lost position when I see
> > it, and see it I did once my low-rated opponent
> > varied from the authors' horrible analysis!
>
> > Holy cow! THIS is the sort of position which the
> > authors, presumably experts on this opening, had
> > in mind as worthy of exclams? It's obviously lost,
> > and I found the same thing happening when I tried
> > to wing it with GM Kortchnoi's book on the King's
> > Gambit. All I can say is that these guys must be
> > connected, for their analysis is horrible, and no
> > self-respecting publisher should kill any more trees
> > on their account. For god sakes, save the trees
> > for toothpicks, firewood, or anything else but this.
>
> > One of these guys has a GM title, and his co-
> > author has an IM title, while the other two co-authors
> > have nothing but their swagger sticks, but it seems
> > to make no difference, as the analysis is just cr*p!
> > My Fritz 5.32 could do a better job, given sufficient
> > time and some help from say, Chess Assistant 0.9
> > or Chessbase, free trial edition. I used to make fun
> > of Eric Schiller for cranking out "books" in a day or
> > two, but he had merely *perfected* the art. These
> > other guys are no better.
>
> > -- help bot
Being Phil's hapless victim playing a "Latvian". I must say the
experience left me ill!
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 09:22:51
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
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On Aug 26, 9:18 am, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> > All of these players have the low starting ratings, so
> > I decided to "experiment" with some oddball openings,
> > like the Latvian Gambit (hell if I'll ever do that again!)
>
> ROFL! THAT'S why /he/ is is playing that!
> he doesn't like it either.
>
> Sanny should sign-himself up at chessworld and enter his offspring, though I
> don't know if that is legal. At least it will avert what Ken Sloan rightly
> says is illegal, by ignoring its own clock - since it takes all day to move
> anyway, correspondance chess might be just the ticket for Sanny-bot, and
> Sanny can get to wait for the machine to make its move <ggg> which imo,
> seems like the fastest way to fix it.
The punishment should fit the crime.
I just happen to have a book here on the Latvian
Gambit, so I thought, what the heck? I'll try it out
against some really weak player and see what
happens. The problem arises when I am just
following along the authors' analysis, and take their
enthusiastic use of exclamation points to mean
that White has serious trouble gaining any edge
versus his favorite move (5. ...Qf7!). Unfortunately,
despite being completely unfamiliar with this
opening, I can recognize a lost position when I see
it, and see it I did once my low-rated opponent
varied from the authors' horrible analysis!
Holy cow! THIS is the sort of position which the
authors, presumably experts on this opening, had
in mind as worthy of exclams? It's obviously lost,
and I found the same thing happening when I tried
to wing it with GM Kortchnoi's book on the King's
Gambit. All I can say is that these guys must be
connected, for their analysis is horrible, and no
self-respecting publisher should kill any more trees
on their account. For god sakes, save the trees
for toothpicks, firewood, or anything else but this.
One of these guys has a GM title, and his co-
author has an IM title, while the other two co-authors
have nothing but their swagger sticks, but it seems
to make no difference, as the analysis is just cr*p!
My Fritz 5.32 could do a better job, given sufficient
time and some help from say, Chess Assistant 0.9
or Chessbase, free trial edition. I used to make fun
of Eric Schiller for cranking out "books" in a day or
two, but he had merely *perfected* the art. These
other guys are no better.
-- help bot
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 20:01:07
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
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"help bot" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Aug 26, 9:18 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> The punishment should fit the crime.
>
>
> I just happen to have a book here on the Latvian
> Gambit, so I thought, what the heck? I'll try it out
> against some really weak player and see what
> happens. The problem arises when I am just
> following along the authors' analysis, and take their
> enthusiastic use of exclamation points to mean
> that White has serious trouble gaining any edge
> versus his favorite move (5. ...Qf7!).
White has 3 choices at move 3. I just tried two of them last week, with some
advantage, which line is this?
Essentially there is [3] Bc4, Nxe5 and ef. I tried the first two.
Seems to me the only way to play the 'Latvian' is the deferred means of
playing it against the Ruy, [Schliemann] either directly or after a6, [the
deferred] which has a certain preference.
Phil
> Unfortunately,
> despite being completely unfamiliar with this
> opening, I can recognize a lost position when I see
> it, and see it I did once my low-rated opponent
> varied from the authors' horrible analysis!
>
> Holy cow! THIS is the sort of position which the
> authors, presumably experts on this opening, had
> in mind as worthy of exclams? It's obviously lost,
> and I found the same thing happening when I tried
> to wing it with GM Kortchnoi's book on the King's
> Gambit. All I can say is that these guys must be
> connected, for their analysis is horrible, and no
> self-respecting publisher should kill any more trees
> on their account. For god sakes, save the trees
> for toothpicks, firewood, or anything else but this.
>
> One of these guys has a GM title, and his co-
> author has an IM title, while the other two co-authors
> have nothing but their swagger sticks, but it seems
> to make no difference, as the analysis is just cr*p!
> My Fritz 5.32 could do a better job, given sufficient
> time and some help from say, Chess Assistant 0.9
> or Chessbase, free trial edition. I used to make fun
> of Eric Schiller for cranking out "books" in a day or
> two, but he had merely *perfected* the art. These
> other guys are no better.
>
>
> -- help bot
>
>
>
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 09:04:08
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
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On Aug 26, 7:51 am, Bjoern <[email protected] > wrote:
> Stop kidding yourself:
>
> Over 2 hours in this position!
>
> 6k1/p4p1p/4p1p1/5PP1/2p3P1/3r4/1p2K3/8 w - - 0 1
> wKe2,Pf5,g4,g5/bKg8,Rd3,Pa7,b2,c4,e6,f7,g6,h7
>
> Any half-way decent amateur chess program can see that it will be mated
> in 4 moves.
Ah, you must be using Rybka, for how else could
you have achieved a winning position against the
new, improved GetClub program!
-- help bot
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 08:59:45
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
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On Aug 26, 5:53 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> As you noticed the Getclub Chess recovered from bad position. So you
> can see the game is playing better than earlier.
On the contrary, the program erased several of
my moves which had led to a decisive advantage,
(originally, I had a Queen in the hole at d3 and so
it could never castle and was a sitting duck) and
when I resumed this game at some random point,
I played much worse than before. This is not the
same as the program playing strongly. I still have
a playable position, but I am going to have to sac
a piece to keep from losing my extra, passed and
very far advanced, pawn. I now must work in order
to win.
I play a good deal of blitz (five minute) chess on
my computer, so when the program was moving
quickly, I naturally fell into the same tempo, but
this is not a Fritz 5.32 handicap game, where the
strength of play is severely limited by the program
itself! The program froze up just when I had made
a serious error, my Queen has nowhere to run and
I will lose a piece. Your explanations (the program
was being worked on for a few hours) never make
any sense; for instance, I tried to resume the game
on two different days, but to no avail. And what
happened to my earlier moves, the ones where I
had entrenched my Queen at d3? I seriously
wonder if these problems occur as often when the
program is winning (although I cannot really say,
since it almost never is, against me).
Sanny, it is neigh well impossible to play decent
chess under such conditions; intermittent freezes,
multiple take-backs at random, and essentially
nonexistent time controls. This sort of thing was
hashed out around the turn of the twentieth
century, I believe; we don;t want to have to do it
all over again.
-- help bot
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 03:56:18
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
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> For good measure, I tried yet again to finish this awful
> game but although the Java applet loaded and the
> position was displayed with Sanny's program to move,
> it never did. I let it run in the background, checking
> intermittently, but to no avail. The clock timer just
> keeps ticking away (which is an improvement over
> how things used to work atGetClub, admittedly).
The game was edited, So there was a problem for an hour. Now it will
play quicker. Also for some moves it will take longer but not longer
than 5-10 minutes.
While most of the moves will be played in 10-20 seconds
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 14:51:37
From: Bjoern
Subject: Re: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
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Sanny wrote:
>> For good measure, I tried yet again to finish this awful
>>game but although the Java applet loaded and the
>>position was displayed with Sanny's program to move,
>>it never did. I let it run in the background, checking
>>intermittently, but to no avail. The clock timer just
>>keeps ticking away (which is an improvement over
>>how things used to work atGetClub, admittedly).
>
>
> The game was edited, So there was a problem for an hour. Now it will
> play quicker. Also for some moves it will take longer but not longer
> than 5-10 minutes.
>
> While most of the moves will be played in 10-20 seconds
>
Stop kidding yourself:
Over 2 hours in this position!
6k1/p4p1p/4p1p1/5PP1/2p3P1/3r4/1p2K3/8 w - - 0 1
wKe2,Pf5,g4,g5/bKg8,Rd3,Pa7,b2,c4,e6,f7,g6,h7
Any half-way decent amateur chess program can see that it will be mated
in 4 moves.
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 03:53:36
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
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> I logged on recently and it placed me in the middle of
> an unfinished game I had been playing under a different
> handle (help bot), but a few moves before where I had
> left off. Playing very quickly (both of us), I erred and
> lost all my advantage, but then the program froze up,
> refusing to move at all but showing the clock as ticking
> away, on and on, and on.
Last 2 days a lot of correction was done. so the game was not playing
correctly. In such cases best thing is to play after an hour in a new
window. Since if you have loaded the program when it is having errors,
the game will not play good.
Now most of the problems regarding game strength is solved. Now, you
can play a descent game.
Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html
As you noticed the Getclub Chess recovered from bad position. So you
can see the game is playing better than earlier.
On some moves it takes longer while on some it plays rekably fast.
you can see the recorded games to know how fast the game plays.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 25 Aug 2007 19:57:31
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
|
On Aug 25, 7:09 pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> > So, does it forfeit on time when it oversteps the time control? Or,
> > does it still cheat?
>
> I logged on recently and it placed me in the middle of
> an unfinished game I had been playing under a different
> handle (help bot), but a few moves before where I had
> left off. Playing very quickly (both of us), I erred and
> lost all my advantage, but then the program froze up,
> refusing to move at all but showing the clock as ticking
> away, on and on, and on.
>
> My take is that the Web site is buggy, and probably
> always will be. These announcements of "fixed" errors
> and "improvements" will never end, so long as Sanny
> is physically able to type.
For good measure, I tried yet again to finish this awful
game but although the Java applet loaded and the
position was displayed with Sanny's program to move,
it never did. I let it run in the background, checking
intermittently, but to no avail. The clock timer just
keeps ticking away (which is an improvement over
how things used to work at GetClub, admittedly).
I have occasionally run across tournament opponents
who will do this, just freeze up and refuse to ever move,
but generally it is because they are about to be mated
or their Queen is trapped -- something like that. And of
course they eventually run out of time and lose because
of the limit.
-- help bot
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Date: 25 Aug 2007 17:09:03
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
|
On Aug 25, 4:31 pm, Kenneth Sloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> > However it will take a little longer on some moves which needs more
> > analysis. While it will play very fast in most of the cases.
>
> So, does it forfeit on time when it oversteps the time control? Or,
> does it still cheat?
I logged on recently and it placed me in the middle of
an unfinished game I had been playing under a different
handle (help bot), but a few moves before where I had
left off. Playing very quickly (both of us), I erred and
lost all my advantage, but then the program froze up,
refusing to move at all but showing the clock as ticking
away, on and on, and on.
My take is that the Web site is buggy, and probably
always will be. These announcements of "fixed" errors
and "improvements" will never end, so long as Sanny
is physically able to type.
----
Another Web site called chessworld.net has no such
issues, but I must say that I was shocked to log on
(to see if Rob Mitchell or my one other opponent had
moved yet) and find that I had been entered in some
tournament without my knowledge or consent! Ten
games were started by the system, automatically I
suppose, one with White and one with Black against
each of five different newcomers like myself.
All of these players have the low starting ratings, so
I decided to "experiment" with some oddball openings,
like the Latvian Gambit (hell if I'll ever do that again!)
and the King's Gambit, which is now a Faulkbeer in
which I blindly followed some line in a book I happen
to have handy by GM Kortchnoi. As luck would have
it, my low-rated opponent seems to have effortlessly
refuted the analysis given by GM Kortchnoi, and I
won't be surprised if this player, now rated at around
700, beats me soundly! LOL
-- help bot
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 14:18:03
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
|
"help bot" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Another Web site called chessworld.net has no such
> issues, but I must say that I was shocked to log on
> (to see if Rob Mitchell or my one other opponent had
> moved yet) and find that I had been entered in some
> tournament without my knowledge or consent! Ten
> games were started by the system, automatically I
> suppose, one with White and one with Black against
> each of five different newcomers like myself.
I don't remember that happening to me, but maybe the 'system' encourages
newbies to establish themselves this way?
> All of these players have the low starting ratings, so
> I decided to "experiment" with some oddball openings,
> like the Latvian Gambit (hell if I'll ever do that again!)
ROFL! THAT'S why /he/ is is playing that!
he doesn't like it either.
Sanny should sign-himself up at chessworld and enter his offspring, though I
don't know if that is legal. At least it will avert what Ken Sloan rightly
says is illegal, by ignoring its own clock - since it takes all day to move
anyway, correspondance chess might be just the ticket for Sanny-bot, and
Sanny can get to wait for the machine to make its move <ggg > which imo,
seems like the fastest way to fix it.
Phil Innes
> and the King's Gambit, which is now a Faulkbeer in
> which I blindly followed some line in a book I happen
> to have handy by GM Kortchnoi. As luck would have
> it, my low-rated opponent seems to have effortlessly
> refuted the analysis given by GM Kortchnoi, and I
> won't be surprised if this player, now rated at around
> 700, beats me soundly! LOL
>
>
> -- help bot
>
>
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Date: 25 Aug 2007 16:31:01
From: Kenneth Sloan
Subject: Re: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
|
Sanny wrote:
> Today 2 errors were removed which make GetClub Chess much better than
> it was ever back.
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> The two strange errors were removed which were causing it to play
> weaker moves.
>
> Now, It will play best moves without errors.
>
> However it will take a little longer on some moves which needs more
> analysis. While it will play very fast in most of the cases.
>
So, does it forfeit on time when it oversteps the time control? Or,
does it still cheat?
--
Kenneth Sloan [email protected]
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/
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Date: 25 Aug 2007 08:33:25
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Now, GetClub.com Playing quite good moves.
|
> However it will take a little longer on some moves which needs more
> analysis. While it will play very fast in most of the cases.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Here is a recorded Game Played with Easy Level with LudoChess.
Can Someone Analyze this Game.
White: Ludochess
Black: GetClub (Easy Level)
Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM7933&game=Chess
White: Black
Me {Using Computer}, GetClub Easy Level
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 d6
3. Nc3 Bd7
4. d4 Nc6
5. d5 Ne7
6. Be2 Nf6
7. Bg5 Bg4
8. Nd2 Bd7
9. Bf6 f6
10. Nc4 Bh6
11. Bd3 Bg5
12. h4 Bf4
13. g3 Bh6
14. Qh5 Bg7
15. 0-0-0 a5
16. Ne3 Ng6
17. Nf5 Bf5
18. f5 Nf8
19. Bb5 Nd7
20. Rg1 Qe7
21. Re1 0-0-0
22. g4 Nf8
23. f4 Nd7
24. Na4 Qf8
25. Re4 Bh6
26. g5 g5
27. g5 g7
28. Bd7 Rd7
29. f6 Bf6
30. f6 f4
31. Rg7 b5
32. Nc3 b4
33. Nb5 K-b8
34. Nd4 h6
35. Qe2 Rd8
36. Nc6 Kc8
37. Qa6 Kd7
38. Ne5 e5
39. Qe6 And White Wins the Game
Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM7933&game=Chess
So you can see the moves played by GetClub Easy Level. Though it lost
the game It mantained a good fight.
Can someone tell me wrong moves in this game by GetClub {Playing
BLACK}
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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