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Date: 26 Aug 2006 21:21:50
From: Keith123
Subject: Need help with Chessmaster 9000 endgame
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Hello. I just installed Chessmaster 9000(purchased new for $9.99 a
Circuit City) and have a question as to why the "endgame" plays s
weak compared to my old 5500 version. I set-up a simple position o
White King on e1 and White Pawn on e4 and Black King on e8 with Whit
to move first using the Chessmaster ID against itself with 30 second
per move allowed. I was suprised to see the white pawn advance all th
way to the end of the board without any help from the White King!
did a "Full" install, not just the "typical" install. Here is the PGN
[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "2006.8.26"]
[Round ""]
[White "Chessmaster"]
[Black "Chessmaster"]
[TimeControl "?"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Setup "1"]
[FEN "4k3/8/8/8/4P3/8/8/4K3 w - - 0 1"]
1.e5 Kd7 2.e6+ Ke8 3.e7 Kd7 4.e8=Q+ Kxe8 1/2-1/2
Quite a silly endgame! What might I have done wrong on my set-up sinc
I didn't see anyone else complain about this situation in a search.
have Windows 98 and a 6 year old Dell Computer but everything else wit
Chessmaster 9000 seems a-ok.
-Keit
--
Keith123
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Date: 02 Sep 2006 22:39:25
From: Bark!
Subject: Re: Need help with Chessmaster 9000 endgame
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On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:21:50 +0200, Keith123 =
<[email protected] > wrote:
>
> Hello. I just installed Chessmaster 9000(purchased new for $9.99 at
> Circuit City) and have a question as to why the "endgame" plays so
> weak compared to my old 5500 version. I set-up a simple position of
> White King on e1 and White Pawn on e4 and Black King on e8 with White
> to move first using the Chessmaster ID against itself with 30 seconds
> per move allowed. I was suprised to see the white pawn advance all the=
> way to the end of the board without any help from the White King! I
> did a "Full" install, not just the "typical" install. Here is the PGN=
-
>
>
> [Event ""]
> [Site ""]
> [Date "2006.8.26"]
> [Round ""]
> [White "Chessmaster"]
> [Black "Chessmaster"]
> [TimeControl "?"]
> [Result "1/2-1/2"]
> [Setup "1"]
> [FEN "4k3/8/8/8/4P3/8/8/4K3 w - - 0 1"]
>
> 1.e5 Kd7 2.e6+ Ke8 3.e7 Kd7 4.e8=3DQ+ Kxe8 1/2-1/2
>
> Quite a silly endgame! What might I have done wrong on my set-up sinc=
e
> I didn't see anyone else complain about this situation in a search. I=
> have Windows 98 and a 6 year old Dell Computer but everything else wit=
h
> Chessmaster 9000 seems a-ok.
>
> -Keith
The game is dead draw. Try replacing positions of white king and pawn an=
d =
you'll see. White will win 100 %.
-- =
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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Date: 03 Sep 2006 19:33:27
From: Keith123
Subject: Re: Need help with Chessmaster 9000 endgame
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Bark! Wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:21:50 +0200, Keith123
> [email protected] wrote:
> -
>
> [Event ""]
> [Site ""]
> [Date "2006.8.26"]
> [Round ""]
> [White "Chessmaster"]
> [Black "Chessmaster"]
> [TimeControl "?"]
> [Result "1/2-1/2"]
> [Setup "1"]
> [FEN "4k3/8/8/8/4P3/8/8/4K3 w - - 0 1"]
>
> 1.e5 Kd7 2.e6+ Ke8 3.e7 Kd7 4.e8=Q+ Kxe8 1/2-1/2
>
> Quite a silly endgame! What might I have done wrong on my set-u
> since
> I didn't see anyone else complain about this situation in a search.
> I
> have Windows 98 and a 6 year old Dell Computer but everything els
> with
> Chessmaster 9000 seems a-ok.
>
> -Keith-
>
> The game is dead draw. Try replacing positions of white king and paw
> and
> you'll see. White will win 100 %.
> I would not send my Pawn alone up the board if I was playing White an
If I was Black I would eat the Pawn right away when it first checke
me. It is a draw with correct play on both sides but I had wondere
why Chessmaster wanted to play out the moves the way it did. Only tw
beginners would play out the moves the way Chessmaster did. I don'
have a problem accepting the position is a draw with best play jus
that the technique of Chessmaster to reach the draw looked funny
--
Keith123
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Date: 04 Sep 2006 11:38:12
From: cbseries
Subject: Re: Need help with Chessmaster 9000 endgame
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Keith123 Wrote:
> Hello. I just installed Chessmaster 9000 (purchased new for $9.99 a
> Circuit City)... -Keith
If you aren't already aware of it, there are three patches availabl
for Chessmaster 9000. I don't know if the patches are cumulative so i
you decide to install any of the patches I would recommend installin
each of them, starting with installing the first released patch first.
The patches a
ver. 1.01
ver. 1.02
ver. 1.02a
This is a link to the patches download page. If the link doesn't wor
you should be able to find the UBI web site page that has the patche
through a search engine. I think it may depend on what country you ar
in as to which patches you use, but the below link is to the U.S. we
site.
http://www.ubi.com/US/Downloads/Info.aspx?dlId=12
I'll also mention, though I don't think it applies to the endgam
problem you presented, that I read that the endgame databases tha
install with Chessmaster 9000 have bugs in them.
See this web page:
http://www.aarontay.per.sg/Winboard/egtb.html#[A.8]
And the web page provides a download to fix the buggy databases. Th
first few sentences on the web page regarding the "FEG or Final Endgam
Generator" can be skipped since this is something entirely differen
than replacing the buggy databases that were installed with Chessmaste
9000.
I will say that about two years ago I actually did generate the 5-ma
databases using the Final Endgame Generator but I'm not qualified t
give advice on doing it, and I did a lot of reading about it before
undertook the operation.
** If you were already aware of all of the above then smack me upsid
the head with a watermelon. *
--
cbseries
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Date: 30 Aug 2006 10:10:30
From:
Subject: Re: Need help with Chessmaster 9000 endgame
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Keith123 wrote:
> [email protected] Wrote:
> >
> > Here's how Chessmaster would play out the ending without endgame
> > databases:
> >
> > [Event ""]
> > [Site ""]
> > [Date "2006.8.28"]
> > [Round ""]
> > [White "CM NO EGDB"]
> > [Black "CM NO EGDB"]
> > [TimeControl "?"]
> > [Result "1/2-1/2"]
> > [Setup "1"]
> > [FEN "4k3/8/8/8/4P3/8/8/4K3 w - - 0 1"]
> >
> > 1.Kd2 Kd7 2.Ke3 Ke6 3.Kf4 Kf6 4.Kg3 Ke5 5.Kf3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Ke5 7.Kd3 Kf6
> > 8.Kd4 Ke6 9.e5 Kf7 10.Ke3 Ke6 11.Kf4 Kf7 12.Kf5 Ke7 13.e6 Ke8 14.Ke4
> > Ke7
> > 15.Kd5 Ke8 16.Kd4 Kf8 17.Ke5 Ke7 18.Kd4 Kxe6 1/2-1/2
> >
> > jmI like your example as Chessmaster at least tries for a win even though
> at move 18.kd4 White suddenly gives up trying to win. My "Chessbase
> Light" program also suggests moves in the above position that allows a
> draw sooner than I would expect. I watched the Waitzkin tutorial on
> Chessmaster 9000 on this kind of basic endgame and it was quite
> excellent in my opinion so the $9.99 I spent will be well worth it!
>
> --
> Keith123
Chessmaster is a phenomenal buy, even if you pay full price. At least,
that's my humble opinion. :-)
jm
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 11:53:27
From:
Subject: Re: Need help with Chessmaster 9000 endgame
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Keith123 wrote:
> [email protected] Wrote:
> >
> > According to the endgame tablebases: Position=0, Kf1=0, Kd2=0, Ke2=0,
> > Kf2=0, e5=0, Kd1=0. In other words, all moves draw and are silly!
> Thanks for the reply. Just seems weird that Chessmaster would send a
> pawn on a guaranteed suicide mission when White might have a chance to
> win if Black does not play perfect. It was easy for me to see not to
> follow the technique of Chessmaster in this simple endgame test, but
> what other situations might lead me the wrong way in my learning?! I
> will try some of your "tweaking" suggestions and see how it goes. Oh
> well, right now I can't reach an endgame in a real game against
> Chessmaster anyway! :)
Almost all implementations of endgame databases will play a
"random-looking" move when the game is determined to be a draw. Another
example is KRB vs KR, when the computer will trade rooks rather than
force the opponent with less material to "prove the draw".
Only a very few engines have implemented what is called a "swindle
mode" for endgames. Crafty is the only one I know of for sure, and it
typically only uses it when it knows it's playing against a human. In
this mode, it will eliminate the kinds of moves that you saw against
Chessmaster in the hopes that the opponent won't properly play the
endgame.
Here's how Chessmaster would play out the ending without endgame
databases:
[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "2006.8.28"]
[Round ""]
[White "CM NO EGDB"]
[Black "CM NO EGDB"]
[TimeControl "?"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Setup "1"]
[FEN "4k3/8/8/8/4P3/8/8/4K3 w - - 0 1"]
1.Kd2 Kd7 2.Ke3 Ke6 3.Kf4 Kf6 4.Kg3 Ke5 5.Kf3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Ke5 7.Kd3 Kf6
8.Kd4 Ke6 9.e5 Kf7 10.Ke3 Ke6 11.Kf4 Kf7 12.Kf5 Ke7 13.e6 Ke8 14.Ke4
Ke7
15.Kd5 Ke8 16.Kd4 Kf8 17.Ke5 Ke7 18.Kd4 Kxe6 1/2-1/2
jm
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Date: 29 Aug 2006 21:58:10
From: Keith123
Subject: Re: Need help with Chessmaster 9000 endgame
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[email protected] Wrote:
>
> Here's how Chessmaster would play out the ending without endgame
> databases:
>
> [Event ""]
> [Site ""]
> [Date "2006.8.28"]
> [Round ""]
> [White "CM NO EGDB"]
> [Black "CM NO EGDB"]
> [TimeControl "?"]
> [Result "1/2-1/2"]
> [Setup "1"]
> [FEN "4k3/8/8/8/4P3/8/8/4K3 w - - 0 1"]
>
> 1.Kd2 Kd7 2.Ke3 Ke6 3.Kf4 Kf6 4.Kg3 Ke5 5.Kf3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Ke5 7.Kd3 Kf6
> 8.Kd4 Ke6 9.e5 Kf7 10.Ke3 Ke6 11.Kf4 Kf7 12.Kf5 Ke7 13.e6 Ke8 14.Ke
> Ke7
> 15.Kd5 Ke8 16.Kd4 Kf8 17.Ke5 Ke7 18.Kd4 Kxe6 1/2-1/2
>
> jmI like your example as Chessmaster at least tries for a win even thoug
at move 18.kd4 White suddenly gives up trying to win. My "Chessbas
Light" program also suggests moves in the above position that allows
draw sooner than I would expect. I watched the Waitzkin tutorial o
Chessmaster 9000 on this kind of basic endgame and it was quit
excellent in my opinion so the $9.99 I spent will be well worth it
--
Keith123
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Date: 26 Aug 2006 20:15:51
From:
Subject: Re: Need help with Chessmaster 9000 endgame
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Keith123 wrote:
> [FEN "4k3/8/8/8/4P3/8/8/4K3 w - - 0 1"]
>
> 1.e5 Kd7 2.e6+ Ke8 3.e7 Kd7 4.e8=Q+ Kxe8 1/2-1/2
> Quite a silly endgame!
According to the endgame tablebases: Position=0, Kf1=0, Kd2=0, Ke2=0,
Kf2=0, e5=0, Kd1=0. In other words, all moves draw and are silly!
I suppose you're studying endgames? You can tweak Chessmaster.
1. In "Setup Persoanlity" choose Chessmaster and uncheck endgame
databaes. Chessmaster will "forget" which endings are won, draw, loss,
etc and calculate its play like usual. It's about 50-100 ELO weaker.
2. Increase the "Randomness" setting. Now it will try to win endgames a
little differently every time, which tests your knowledge better.
Visit forums.ubi.com or rec.chess.computer for the CM9000 experts. :-)
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Date: 27 Aug 2006 23:08:24
From: Keith123
Subject: Re: Need help with Chessmaster 9000 endgame
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[email protected] Wrote:
>
> According to the endgame tablebases: Position=0, Kf1=0, Kd2=0, Ke2=0,
> Kf2=0, e5=0, Kd1=0. In other words, all moves draw and are silly!
> Thanks for the reply. Just seems weird that Chessmaster would send
pawn on a guaranteed suicide mission when White might have a chance t
win if Black does not play perfect. It was easy for me to see not t
follow the technique of Chessmaster in this simple endgame test, bu
what other situations might lead me the wrong way in my learning?!
will try some of your "tweaking" suggestions and see how it goes. O
well, right now I can't reach an endgame in a real game agains
Chessmaster anyway! :
--
Keith123
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