| |
Main
Date: 19 Sep 2007 23:02:18
From: Sanny
Subject: Getclub Chess beat whitehat with easy level.
|
Whitehat a strong player was beaten by easy level. However nomorechess
was able to win with easy level.
Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html
That game had bugs when nomorechess won. Now the bugs have been
removed. I feel It would be a lot difficult to win Easy & Normal
Levels.
Now the GetClub Chess plays in time.
Beginner - 10-30 sec
Easy - 30-90 sec
Normal 2-4 min
So have fun.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html
|
|
| |
Date: 22 Sep 2007 02:17:37
From:
Subject: Re: Getclub Chess beat whitehat with easy level.
|
On Sep 21, 2:13 am, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Sep 20, 1:02 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Whitehat a strong player was beaten by easy level.
>
> Okay, I replayed that game and it looked like GetClub
> was floundering a bit; Whitehat made several errors
> which no "strong" chess player would ever make, but
> even when the attack was overwhelming GetClub
> somehow managed to nearly get back rank mated,
> luckily losing just its Queen instead.
>
> The ending, cut off at about move 68, had GetClub
> doing some spite checks, apparently having no idea
> how to win with K & Q vs. K
> -- help bot
[groups trimmed to rgcc only]
I've been enjoying reading this thread. As Ralf guessed, this game
was played by a weak computer program - a rudimentary program I wrote
about ten years ago. I thought it would be interesting to try it
against Getclub.
My program has no chess knowledge apart from checkmate and material.
If it can't see a way to win material, it effectively plays randomly.
It uses a standard alpha-beta search with a quiescence search.
I used a fixed depth 5-ply search for this game. That was enough to
beat Getclub on beginner level, but in this game it could not beat
easy level.
My thoughts on the game:
1. Obviously my program played badly, as expected. Knowing how the
program works, the mistakes it made were understandable.
2. I think Getclub's bonus for preventing castling is far too high.
That would explain the sacrifice of a knight for two pawns and a king
move on move 6.
3. Towards the end of the game my program was moving instantly (take
note Sanny!). I wondered about increasing the search depth. I didn't
because I wasn't sure that was fair, and by the time I thought of it
my program had no chance of winning.
4. As help bot observed, Getclub had no idea how to win a K+Q v K
ending. I resigned here as there seemed no point in continuing.
Sanny, in my view you should make a feature of Getclub's weakness, as
it is rare to find a program which gives you a chance to win. There
is still a lot of work to do on the game, such as implementing draws,
removing bugs, and making it faster. But after that it could be an
enjoyable opponent for an average player (who would be weaker than
most rgc* readers).
Whitehat
|
| |
Date: 21 Sep 2007 13:52:15
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Getclub Chess beat whitehat with easy level.
|
I tried a game on the lowest level. I was Black. After 1. d4 d5
GetClubbed took 40+ seconds and then played 2. Nf3. I was not
impressed. I played a few more moves but I didn't have enough
patience; it's still pretty darn slow.
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 21:38:46
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Getclub Chess beat whitehat with easy level.
|
On Sep 20, 10:49 pm, "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <[email protected] > wrote:
> Patzers like "IM Innes"?
>
> Come on? Give Sanny a little credit if that is your only counter at this
> point.
Well, apart from all my other points, it may well be my
only "counter". So if you don't count any of the others,
you may have a point... somewhere. LOL
Here is where I actually went wrong: it was not Smelly
Gnarlynewt, but Stinky Garlnoot... snute... whatever.
> > Right now, I am still seeing numerous cases in which
> > the program allows elementary pawn forks, or sac's a
> > Knight for a pawn and a couple of spite checks
-- help bot
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 18:26:10
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Getclub Chess beat whitehat with easy level.
|
On Sep 20, 6:11 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Today Zebediah played a very nice game and defeated the Master Level
> in just 28 moves. Master had no choice but to give away its bishop for
> one pawn.
Once again, the GetClub program voluntarily sacrificed
a piece for fewer than three pawns.
Never mind the Knights dancing about the board, or any
strategical considerations; when is this "bug"/feature
going to get fixed? If the program justs gives material
away like this, even patzers like IM Innes and Gnarly
Fognewt will beat it. Tell the programmers to make it
hang on to every last piece until it is pried from the
machine's cold, dead hands. Then we may see a battle
in which humans attempt to "outplay" the program
strategically, but where it has winning chances if they
make even a single serious mistake.
Right now, I am still seeing numerous cases in which
the program allows elementary pawn forks, or sac's a
Knight for a pawn and a couple of spite checks which
are of no real value. Selective search does not work as
a *replacement* for brute force calculations; it may be
useful in conjunction with it, but tactics are 90% of the
game.
-- help bot
|
| | |
Date: 21 Sep 2007 03:49:47
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Getclub Chess beat whitehat with easy level.
|
In rec.games.chess.computer help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Sep 20, 6:11 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Today Zebediah played a very nice game and defeated the Master Level
>> in just 28 moves. Master had no choice but to give away its bishop for
>> one pawn.
>
> Once again, the GetClub program voluntarily sacrificed
> a piece for fewer than three pawns.
>
> Never mind the Knights dancing about the board, or any
> strategical considerations; when is this "bug"/feature
> going to get fixed? If the program justs gives material
> away like this, even patzers like IM Innes and Gnarly
> Fognewt will beat it. Tell the programmers to make it
> hang on to every last piece until it is pried from the
> machine's cold, dead hands. Then we may see a battle
> in which humans attempt to "outplay" the program
> strategically, but where it has winning chances if they
> make even a single serious mistake.
>
Patzers like "IM Innes"?
Come on? Give Sanny a little credit if that is your only counter at this
point.
> Right now, I am still seeing numerous cases in which
> the program allows elementary pawn forks, or sac's a
> Knight for a pawn and a couple of spite checks which
> are of no real value. Selective search does not work as
> a *replacement* for brute force calculations; it may be
> useful in conjunction with it, but tactics are 90% of the
> game.
>
Constructive criticism is good, as is the preceding paragraph.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
You will be advanced socially, without any special effort on your part.
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 18:13:23
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Getclub Chess beat whitehat with easy level.
|
On Sep 20, 1:02 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Whitehat a strong player was beaten by easy level.
Okay, I replayed that game and it looked like GetClub
was floundering a bit; Whitehat made several errors
which no "strong" chess player would ever make, but
even when the attack was overwhelming GetClub
somehow managed to nearly get back rank mated,
luckily losing just its Queen instead.
The ending, cut off at about move 68, had GetClub
doing some spite checks, apparently having no idea
how to win with K & Q vs. K; luckily, we are spared
the spectacle, as I suppose Whitehat got tired of
this and just resigned; in any case, sooner or later
the program could have "accidentally" promoted a
pawn and then lucked into a checkmate having two
Queens to play with.
-- help bot
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 17:43:50
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Getclub Chess beat whitehat with easy level.
|
On Sep 20, 1:02 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Whitehat a strong player was beaten by easy level. However nomorechess
> was able to win with easy level.
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html
>
> That game had bugs when nomorechess won. Now the bugs have been
> removed. I feel It would be a lot difficult to win Easy & Normal
> Levels.
Yes, I found that the only way to beat GetClub is by
triple-clicking on the square where its Queen rests;
this changes a White Queen to a Black one, or vice
versa, whereupon I am just barely able to get a win,
after a long, hard struggle.
-------------
Sanny, your program is playing fairly well now, but
there are a few things which even the best commercial
programs get wrong; one of these is misplaying the
opening once out of book; somehow or other, even
top level programs are programmed wrong and will
commit beginner-like positional errors here, if they
are not allowed to retrieve a by-rote correct move in
the opening.
In the middle game, things are different; here the
brute power of calculation reigns supreme, as shown
in the recent odds match where Rybka bested GM
Benjamin repeatedly from very bad positions.
But once the endgame is reached, again the power
of calculation can give way to a much more subtle
understanding based on ideas, not calculations; one
example was the fairly simple Rook ending I won at
GetClub recently, which ought to have been drawn
and if anything, the program had better chances on
account of its one-pawn advantage in conjunction
with my desperate attempts to avoid the
embarrassment of not winning. At one point, I moved
my Rook between two of my own pawns, to avoid any
further material losses; surely, even a cow could draw
this position, but no.
-- help bot
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 16:43:36
From: Ralf Callenberg
Subject: Re: Getclub Chess beat whitehat with easy level.
|
On Sep 20, 6:40 pm, Ralf Callenberg <[email protected] > wrote:
> Looking at the game, Whitehat is obviously not a strong player but
> indeed a rather weak player
... The way he played somehow looked a bit like a weak computer
program. Maybe somebody let your program play against itself!?
Ralf
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 16:40:43
From: Ralf Callenberg
Subject: Re: Getclub Chess beat whitehat with easy level.
|
On Sep 20, 8:09 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Whitehat a strong player was beaten by easy level.
Looking at the game, Whitehat is obviously not a strong player but
indeed a rather weak player (at least presented himself as a weak
one) . He made several severe mistakes no strong player would make.
Ralf
PS: somebody asked you already not to pollute the groups: your
postings belong to rec.games.chess.computer, and not to four more.
[F'up to rgcc]
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 04:11:54
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Getclub Chess beat whitehat with easy level.
|
> Now the GetClub Chess plays in time.
>
> Beginner - 10-30 sec
> Easy - 30-90 sec
> Normal 2-4 min
>
> So have fun.
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html
Today Zebediah played a very nice game and defeated the Master Level
in just 28 moves. Master had no choice but to give away its bishop for
one pawn.
Recorded game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM9742&game=Chess
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at:http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html
|
| | |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 15:03:35
From: Kenneth Sloan
Subject: Re: Getclub Chess beat whitehat with easy level.
|
Sanny wrote:
>> Now the GetClub Chess plays in time.
>>
>> Beginner - 10-30 sec
>> Easy - 30-90 sec
>> Normal 2-4 min
>>
>> So have fun.
>>
>> Play Chess at:http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html
>
> Today Zebediah played a very nice game and defeated the Master Level
> in just 28 moves. Master had no choice but to give away its bishop for
> one pawn.
>
> Recorded game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM9742&game=Chess
>
"Master"????
Hint: it's impossible to play a "very nice game" when your opponent
rolls over and plays dead.
--
Kenneth Sloan [email protected]
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/
|
| |
Date: 19 Sep 2007 23:09:00
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Getclub Chess beat whitehat with easy level.
|
On Sep 20, 11:02 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Whitehat a strong player was beaten by easy level. However nomorechess
> was able to win with easy level.
Here is the recorded game where Easy Level beat Whitehat
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM9724&game=Chess
Easy Level won the match after a lot of struggle.
Can someone analyze and tell how GetClub Chess be further improved?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at:http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html
|
|
