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Main
Date: 07 Jan 2009 03:32:05
From: Sanny
Subject: GetClub Chess made Twice Stronger.
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There was an improvement in GetClub Chess today, that will make it
very strong opponent.
GetClub is now so strong that even Beginner is giving tough challenge.
Even Help Bot was beaten by Beginner Level once. However majority of
games were won by him.
You can win only if you play very seriously. The moment you play quick
game you are lost.
Now I feel Taylor Kingston will also feel the tough games by GetClub
Chess.
I think now Zebediah will find it much difficult to win against the
Master Level.
99% of the players will be beaten by the Beginner & Easy Levels.
New Rating for each Level (assumed USFC Rating)
Beginner: 1900+
Easy: 2100+
Normal: 2300+
Master: 2500+
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 13 Jan 2009 05:35:17
From: Simon Krahnke
Subject: Re: Positional evaluation Corrected.
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* David Richerby <[email protected] > (15:35) schrieb:
> Simon Krahnke <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Sanny <[email protected]> (2009-01-08) schrieb:
>>> To avoid such things now I have reduced the Positional Advantage by
>>> half. So instead of giving +1 point for such advantages now it will
>>> now give just 0.5 points.
>>
>> Maybe I could understand what you mean by that If I knew what you
>> mean by "point".
>
> I assume that, from his earlier explanation that a knight is worth a
> pawn plus two points' worth of positional advantage, a `point' is the
> value of one pawn.
Thanks, now I understand what's wrong with his positional evaluation.
mfg, simon .... l
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Date: 12 Jan 2009 09:20:47
From: Simon Krahnke
Subject: Re: Positional evaluation Corrected.
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* Sanny <[email protected] > (2009-01-08) schrieb:
> To avoid such things now I have reduced the Positional Advantage by
> half. So instead of giving +1 point for such advantages now it will
> now give just 0.5 points.
Maybe I could understand what you mean by that If I knew what you mean
by "point".
mfg, simon .... l
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Date: 12 Jan 2009 14:35:44
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Positional evaluation Corrected.
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Simon Krahnke <[email protected] > wrote:
> Sanny <[email protected]> (2009-01-08) schrieb:
>> To avoid such things now I have reduced the Positional Advantage by
>> half. So instead of giving +1 point for such advantages now it will
>> now give just 0.5 points.
>
> Maybe I could understand what you mean by that If I knew what you
> mean by "point".
I assume that, from his earlier explanation that a knight is worth a
pawn plus two points' worth of positional advantage, a `point' is the
value of one pawn.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Happy Flower (TM): it's like a flower
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ that makes your troubles melt away!
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Date: 08 Jan 2009 03:05:33
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess made Twice Stronger.
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> =A0 In one of my games against one of the very
> weak levels, I won a piece quite easily but
> soon wished I hadn't, for strange things befell
> my undeveloped position; I was the idiot who
> failed to castle, who left his King exposed all
> day long, etc. =A0 Nevertheless, I soon managed
> to cut my losses, trading Queens (whew!) to
> a horrid ending in which I needlessly hung a
> Knight while flipping back and forth between
> GetClub and reading my emails. =A0 I drew, but
> only because GC can't ever seem to win a
> won game unless a full Rook ahead.
Now I found a game where Easy was able to win by trapping your Rook.
Then it trapped your Queen with Rook and you resigned.
I hope now GetClub is stronger than ever and you will have tough time
in winning the Easy Level.
And Beginner Level will give a tough challenge to most of the players.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 07 Jan 2009 23:38:44
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess made Twice Stronger.
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On Jan 7, 6:38=A0pm, zzz <[email protected] > wrote:
> > =A0 Oh boy-- a single position where GC erred; that
> > proves a lot.
> The move illustrates a particular and often fatal weakness of the
> program.
> If you go through GetClub's games you could find many positions where
> it does something very similar: throwing away material for
> misunderstood positional compensation.
Uh... er... yeah; like in the thousands of games
I've played at GC, and reported on here in rgc
many times. I was merely expressing my
surprise that someone would think a single flaw
like this one is something new, or startling.
> > > 4rrk1/p1p2pp1/3b3p/2pp4/3B2P1/1P2PN1P/P1PPK3/R7 w - - 0 24
> > =A0 I believe I've cracked your code: it's latitude
> > and longitude for the missile-launch sites. =A0A
> > Mr. Bond will be paying you a little visit soon.
> It is a perfectly good FEN description of the position in question.
On the fens, eh? We'll sniff 'em all out-- no
matter how many launch sites there are! (Hey,
you do realize you are dealing with Sanny: the
chap who is/was unfamiliar with the rules of
chess, right? How's he supposed to crack yer
FEN code-- hire a real chess player?)
In my most recent games, I've spotted a few
positions where Sanny's program gives credit
for all sorts of ludicrous things, such as getting
near the enemy King (even where this is a bad
idea), yet it fails to value a passed pawn until
the critter is half-way up the board!
In one of my games against one of the very
weak levels, I won a piece quite easily but
soon wished I hadn't, for strange things befell
my undeveloped position; I was the idiot who
failed to castle, who left his King exposed all
day long, etc. Nevertheless, I soon managed
to cut my losses, trading Queens (whew!) to
a horrid ending in which I needlessly hung a
Knight while flipping back and forth between
GetClub and reading my emails. I drew, but
only because GC can't ever seem to win a
won game unless a full Rook ahead.
-- help bot
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Date: 07 Jan 2009 23:26:37
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess made Twice Stronger.
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> =A0 I see the spread has broadened out to 200
> points between levels-- very good; Sanny is
> finally beginning to get the picture.
> =A0 But the numbers are still far too high. =A0I would
> say about four or five hundred points too high.
Yes I took your suggestion to reduce the rating and have a Gap of 200
points.
Beginner Level Plays as Good as Taylor Kingston. Earlier I used to
think he is 2300+ rated So I gave Beginner 2300+ But now He said he is
just 1900+ So I gave Beginner a rating of 1900
As Beginner Plays as good as Taylor Kingston I can easily set the
Correct rating for Beginner Level and it is 1900 and give +200 points
for each higher Level as they think 4 times longer than lower levels.
I saw your game where you were able to draw with Easy Level with White
pieces. I feel you play as good as Easy Level. And You will not be
able to win against the Normal Level.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 07 Jan 2009 23:22:00
From: Sanny
Subject: Positional evaluation Corrected.
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> 4rrk1/p1p2pp1/3b3p/2pp4/3B2P1/1P2PN1P/P1PPK3/R7 w - - 0 24
>
> In this already bad position GetClub managed to make it a lot worse by
> playing 24.Bxg7???
> Explanation? Let me guess: 1 point for the pawn + 1 point for reducing
> king safety + 1 point for isolating the f+h pawns = 3 points for the
> bishop.
Yes correct this is the way GetClub thinks. But many times positional
advantage lead to material sacrifice as in this case it sacrificed
Bishop for a Pawn.
To avoid such things now I have reduced the Positional Advantage by
half. So instead of giving +1 point for such advantages now it will
now give just 0.5 points.
I hope that way GetClub will play without sacrifices now.
> As long as GetClub keeps throwing away material for phantom positional
> bonuses, it will never make any real progress
Now this thing has been corrected. Now it will not sacrifice its
pieces for Positional Advantages.
Thankyou for your suggestions. Now with reduced Positional points It
will not sacrifice its pieces as earlier.
I will soon play a game against Rybka and lets see what happens now.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 07 Jan 2009 15:38:54
From: zzz
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess made Twice Stronger.
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> =A0 Oh boy-- a single position where GC erred; that
> proves a lot.
The move illustrates a particular and often fatal weakness of the
program.
If you go through GetClub's games you could find many positions where
it does something very similar: throwing away material for
misunderstood positional compensation.
> > 4rrk1/p1p2pp1/3b3p/2pp4/3B2P1/1P2PN1P/P1PPK3/R7 w - - 0 24
>
> =A0 I believe I've cracked your code: it's latitude
> and longitude for the missile-launch sites. =A0A
> Mr. Bond will be paying you a little visit soon.
It is a perfectly good FEN description of the position in question.
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Date: 07 Jan 2009 14:53:14
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess made Twice Stronger.
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On Jan 7, 4:20=A0pm, zzz <[email protected] > wrote:
> Improvements? Where? I don't see any.
Have you tried /opening your eyes/? Apparently
not.
> Take a look at this position
Oh boy-- a single position where GC erred; that
proves a lot.
Have you seen the positions in which all the
world champions have blundered? In some of
these, even GetClub would have done far better.
> from a game just played against "Easy":
>
> 4rrk1/p1p2pp1/3b3p/2pp4/3B2P1/1P2PN1P/P1PPK3/R7 w - - 0 24
I believe I've cracked your code: it's latitude
and longitude for the missile-launch sites. A
Mr. Bond will be paying you a little visit soon.
> In this already bad position GetClub managed to make it a lot worse by
> playing 24.Bxg7???
> Explanation? Let me guess: 1 point for the pawn + 1 point for reducing
> king safety + 1 point for isolating the f+h pawns =3D 3 points for the
> bishop.
>
> As long as GetClub keeps throwing away material for phantom positional
> bonuses, it will never make any real progress.
Actually, it already is making some headway,
but this handicap is a large one.
Sanny's crack programming team is going to
reinvent the wheel-- single-handedly reinventing
how to write a chess program. Most of his
programmers are obviously checkers players.
-- help bot
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Date: 07 Jan 2009 14:43:54
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess made Twice Stronger.
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On Jan 7, 6:32=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> There was an improvement in GetClub Chess today
I think the improvement has been in effect for
some time now-- several days at the least.
> that will make it very strong opponent.
>
> GetClub is now so strong that even Beginner is giving tough challenge.
>
> Even Help Bot was beaten by Beginner Level once. However majority of
> games were won by him.
I also drew a couple of games... one of them, after
allowing a simple pawn fork.
> You can win only if you play very seriously. The moment you play quick
> game you are lost.
>
> Now I feel Taylor Kingston will also feel the tough games by GetClub
> Chess.
Not likely; Mr. Kingston plays with a stack of
ECOs at his side, along with Middlegame Tactics
and Mr. Fine's BCE. He may also use Fritz...
"to check for blunders", as the correspondence
chess cheaters put it.
> I think now Zebediah will find it much difficult to win against the
> Master Level.
In my opinion, Mr. Zebediah is using some other
chess engine-- not quite so strong as Rybka, but
far superior (of course) to GetClub's.
As the record shows, his few losses were the
result of bugs in the GC program or Web site, and
this also accounts for his preference for the White
pieces, as the bugs only seem to affect him when
he takes Black.
> 99% of the players will be beaten by the Beginner & Easy Levels.
This could be true if a random sampling of weak
players could be forced to play at GC. Unfortunately,
there are a lot of people who despise Sanny and/or
GC, and these are the ones who keep coming back
for more-- especially those who believe they can win.
> New Rating for each Level (assumed USFC Rating)
>
> Beginner: 1900+
> Easy: 2100+
> Normal: 2300+
> Master: 2500+
I have no estimate for the higher levels now, as
I stopped playing them. But as for Beginner and
Easy -- the levels I've been practicing against --
they are still much weaker than I am, despite my
occasional slips.
The thing is, I deliberately play a variety of chess
openings and take chances in the middle game
in an effort to make the games more interesting.
If I wanted to, I could go into anti-computer mode
and easily destroy these lower levels, although
that could mean enduring some /very long/ and
boring games.
I see the spread has broadened out to 200
points between levels-- very good; Sanny is
finally beginning to get the picture.
But the numbers are still far too high. I would
say about four or five hundred points too high.
-- help bot
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Date: 07 Jan 2009 13:20:55
From: zzz
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess made Twice Stronger.
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On 7 jan, 12:32, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> There was an improvement in GetClub Chess today, that will make it
> very strong opponent.
>
> GetClub is now so strong that even Beginner is giving tough challenge.
>
> Even Help Bot was beaten by Beginner Level once. However majority of
> games were won by him.
>
> You can win only if you play very seriously. The moment you play quick
> game you are lost.
>
> Now I feel Taylor Kingston will also feel the tough games by GetClub
> Chess.
>
> I think now Zebediah will find it much difficult to win against the
> Master Level.
>
> 99% of the players will be beaten by the Beginner & Easy Levels.
>
> New Rating for each Level (assumed USFC Rating)
>
> Beginner: 1900+
> Easy: 2100+
> Normal: 2300+
> Master: 2500+
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Improvements? Where? I don't see any.
Take a look at this position from a game just played against "Easy":
4rrk1/p1p2pp1/3b3p/2pp4/3B2P1/1P2PN1P/P1PPK3/R7 w - - 0 24
In this already bad position GetClub managed to make it a lot worse by
playing 24.Bxg7???
Explanation? Let me guess: 1 point for the pawn + 1 point for reducing
king safety + 1 point for isolating the f+h pawns = 3 points for the
bishop.
As long as GetClub keeps throwing away material for phantom positional
bonuses, it will never make any real progress.
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