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Date: 28 Mar 2006 17:08:25
From: tjb
Subject: [Fritz 9] Sides?
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How do I determine who plays white and who plays black? As far as I can
tell, all I can do is flip the board and force the computer to move, or
take back the computer's move and make my own, depending on the situation.
But when I do this, the game still reports that the engine is playing on
the other side.
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Date: 28 Mar 2006 16:30:40
From: CeeBee
Subject: Re: [Fritz 9] Sides?
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tjb <[email protected] > wrote in rec.games.chess.computer:
> How do I determine who plays white and who plays black? As far as I can
> tell, all I can do is flip the board and force the computer to move, or
> take back the computer's move and make my own, depending on the situation.
> But when I do this, the game still reports that the engine is playing on
> the other side.
>
If you start a game and make a move with the white pieces, Fritz will
respond with black. If you want to play black, flip the board, hit the space
key and Fritz will move. Now respond with black and Fritz will continue to
play white.
I don't know what "the game reports that the engine is playing white" means;
maybe you mean that you'll always see the calculation and evaluation of
Fritz in the engine pane (right below). With standard settings, Fritz will
always calculate, even with you to move. This thinking in the oppponent's
time is called "pondering".
--
CeeBee
*** The Cookie Has Spoken ***
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Date: 28 Mar 2006 21:48:01
From: David Vancina
Subject: Re: [Fritz 9] Sides?
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Maybe the OP is referring to the fact that the position evaluation is
always positive when white's winning, negative when black's winning.
As far as I know this is non-negotiable. I do seem to remember someone
saying that it wasn't always that way though.
> tjb <[email protected]> wrote in rec.games.chess.computer:
>
>
>>How do I determine who plays white and who plays black? As far as I can
>>tell, all I can do is flip the board and force the computer to move, or
>>take back the computer's move and make my own, depending on the situation.
>>But when I do this, the game still reports that the engine is playing on
>>the other side.
>>
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Date: 29 Mar 2006 10:27:03
From: HD
Subject: Re: [Fritz 9] Sides?
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David Vancina skrev:
> Maybe the OP is referring to the fact that the position evaluation is
> always positive when white's winning, negative when black's winning.
>
> As far as I know this is non-negotiable. I do seem to remember someone
> saying that it wasn't always that way though.
>
True. Some GUI's though may offer this in their setup, but I don't which.
Some programs still shows the evaluation from it's own point of view,
like Genius.
For years now, most programs have shown evaluations from White's point
of view, a "-"sign indicates that Black is better in the oppinon of the
engine, and no sign means "+"; White has the upper hand.
BTW: When playing a program, it's normally better not to watch the
engine evaluations :) Watch the game!
>
>> tjb <[email protected]> wrote in rec.games.chess.computer:
>>
>>
>>> How do I determine who plays white and who plays black? As far as I can
>>> tell, all I can do is flip the board and force the computer to move, or
>>> take back the computer's move and make my own, depending on the
>>> situation.
>>> But when I do this, the game still reports that the engine is playing on
>>> the other side.
>>>
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Date: 29 Mar 2006 02:41:50
From: tjb
Subject: Re: [Fritz 9] Sides?
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CeeBee <[email protected] > wrote:
>> How do I determine who plays white and who plays black? As far as I can
>> tell, all I can do is flip the board and force the computer to move, or
>> take back the computer's move and make my own, depending on the situation.
>> But when I do this, the game still reports that the engine is playing on
>> the other side.
>
> If you start a game and make a move with the white pieces, Fritz will
> respond with black. If you want to play black, flip the board, hit the space
> key and Fritz will move. Now respond with black and Fritz will continue to
> play white.
Right. And if Fritz is playing white and I want to play white, I have to
flip the board, take back Fritz's move, and make my own.
BTW, if I hit the space key, doesn't it give a weaker move than usual? (I
get this impression from the fact that it usually doesn't take very long to
make a move when I hit the space key.)
> I don't know what "the game reports that the engine is playing white" means;
> maybe you mean that you'll always see the calculation and evaluation of
> Fritz in the engine pane (right below). With standard settings, Fritz will
> always calculate, even with you to move. This thinking in the oppponent's
> time is called "pondering".
Sorry for the vagueness. I meant that in the annotations pane, it still
reports that Fritz is playing on the side Fritz started on, even if I
changed sides using either of the above techniques.
Just wondering if there's a simpler method than flipping and hitting space
or taking back Fritz's move, depending on the context -- one which updates
the display of who's white and who's black in the annotations pane.
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Date: 29 Mar 2006 23:09:20
From: CeeBee
Subject: Re: [Fritz 9] Sides?
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tjb <[email protected] > wrote in rec.games.chess.computer:
> Right. And if Fritz is playing white and I want to play white, I have
> to flip the board, take back Fritz's move, and make my own.
No. You don't have to take back any move by Fritz. Hit CTRL-N and you'll
get a "clean" new board. Now hit space; this is the "move now" command for
Fritz. You have to use it only this one time. Fritz will move a white
piece. You can respond now with black. Fritz will automatically answer
after that move with white. No need to press keys. Just wait for its
answer, depending on time controls.
You don't have to flip the board to operate properly. It's just for your
convenience. If you don't mind playing with black on the top of your
screen, you can keep it that way.
Again: get a clean new board and simply hit space and Fritz moves. Now you
can move and Fritz will follow with its next move. Flipping the board is
only for convenience. There's even an option "flip board after each game"
or something similar.
> BTW, if I hit the space key, doesn't it give a weaker move than usual?
> (I get this impression from the fact that it usually doesn't take very
> long to make a move when I hit the space key.)
No. It takes its first move out of the openings book - unless this book
file is closed of course, but you have to do that manually.
You can change the preferences for this choice in the edit menu for the
openings book (variety of play, tournament book only. book learning etc.)
> Sorry for the vagueness. I meant that in the annotations pane, it still
> reports that Fritz is playing on the side Fritz started on, even if I
> changed sides using either of the above techniques.
I understand, it doesn't switch names in your case. Basically that should
just be cosmetic and not essential for the engine response, but it is not
correct. I suspect it happens because of your taking back of the first
move.
Fritz _does_ switch names as soon as I let Fritz start. Normally, if I
start a new game (CRTL-N) the pane reports "New game - Fritz 9" with the
time control beneath. Now I start moving, say 1. e4. The pane now changes
into "Ceebee - Fritz 9" But if I hit "space" to let Fritz make the first
move, the notation pane changes into "Fritz 9- CeeBee"
> Just wondering if there's a simpler method than flipping and hitting
> space or taking back Fritz's move, depending on the context -- one which
> updates the display of who's white and who's black in the annotations
> pane.
When taking back moves Fritz supposes the sides stay the same. It's not a
new game, just the continuation of an already started game with Fritz on
the white side. Try the above procedure and see if that helps.
--
CeeBee
*** The Cookie Has Spoken ***
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Date: 30 Mar 2006 12:39:17
From: tjb
Subject: Re: [Fritz 9] Sides?
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CeeBee <[email protected] > wrote:
>> Right. And if Fritz is playing white and I want to play white, I have
>> to flip the board, take back Fritz's move, and make my own.
>
> No. You don't have to take back any move by Fritz. Hit CTRL-N and you'll
> get a "clean" new board. Now hit space; this is the "move now" command for
> Fritz. You have to use it only this one time. Fritz will move a white
> piece. You can respond now with black. Fritz will automatically answer
> after that move with white. No need to press keys. Just wait for its
> answer, depending on time controls.
I meant that if I want to play white but Fritz started as white (it happens
every so often but I can't reproduce it right now) I have to take back
Fritz's white move and make my own white move. Thereafter the game goes as
planned, but the annotations pane still reports that Fritz is white.
Hitting Ctrl-N doesn't help in this situation, by the way; it just starts
Fritz off as white again.
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Date: 30 Mar 2006 22:09:14
From: CeeBee
Subject: Re: [Fritz 9] Sides?
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tjb <[email protected] > wrote in rec.games.chess.computer:
> I meant that if I want to play white but Fritz started as white (it
> happens every so often but I can't reproduce it right now) I have to
> take back Fritz's white move and make my own white move. Thereafter the
> game goes as planned, but the annotations pane still reports that Fritz
> is white. Hitting Ctrl-N doesn't help in this situation, by the way; it
> just starts Fritz off as white again.
If you have to take back a move and enter your own move this is logical
behaviour of course, as I explained.
But I'm puzzled what you mean with "Fritz starts off". Fritz doesn't start
of automatically at all. Either _you_ begin the game with a white move, and
Fritz will answer with black, or you press space and let Fritz begin with
white, after which you respond with black. In those cases Fritz indicates
the names correctly.
--
CeeBee
*** The Cookie Has Spoken ***
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Date: 30 Mar 2006 16:52:16
From: HD
Subject: Re: [Fritz 9] Sides?
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tjb skrev:
> CeeBee <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Right. And if Fritz is playing white and I want to play white, I have
>>> to flip the board, take back Fritz's move, and make my own.
>> No. You don't have to take back any move by Fritz. Hit CTRL-N and you'll
>> get a "clean" new board. Now hit space; this is the "move now" command for
>> Fritz. You have to use it only this one time. Fritz will move a white
>> piece. You can respond now with black. Fritz will automatically answer
>> after that move with white. No need to press keys. Just wait for its
>> answer, depending on time controls.
>
> I meant that if I want to play white but Fritz started as white (it happens
> every so often but I can't reproduce it right now) I have to take back
> Fritz's white move and make my own white move. Thereafter the game goes as
> planned, but the annotations pane still reports that Fritz is white.
> Hitting Ctrl-N doesn't help in this situation, by the way; it just starts
> Fritz off as white again.
In options - game, there's a checkbox called "flip board on new game"
used by people who likes practice with both colors.
If that one is checked, then it's logical that the board flips...
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