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Date: 13 Jul 2008 18:23:12
From: Michael Diosi
Subject: Fritz 10 opening library
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Hello Chesslovers,
Here is an example of the "high quality" of the opening library of Fritz
10, a ChessBase product.
As you can see the entire game is contained in the opening library. At the
end of the game the position is a mate in two.
[Event "*"]
[Site "New York"]
[Date "1923.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Field"]
[Black "Tenner"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C58"]
[Annotator "Michael Diosi"]
[PlyCount "34"]
[TimeControl "300"]
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5
6. d3 h6 7. Nf3 e4 8. Qe2 Nxc4 9. dxc4 Bc5 10. O-O O-O 11. Nfd2 Bg4 12. Qe1
Qd7
13. Nb3 Bf3 14. Bf4 Qg4 15. Bg3 Nh5 16. Nxc5 Nf4 17. Nxe4 Qh3 *
This was not fixed from Fritz 8 = > Fritz 9 => Fritz 10. I doubt it if it was
fixed for Fritz 11. Of course they were notified about this.
Remember you pay for this software.
Don't you think it is about time that ChessBase hires payed competent staff
for writing opening libraries, testing them and also comepetent server
sysops ?
Michael Diosi
http://www.playwitharena.com
Mind the Base... Join the Arena
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Date: 21 Jul 2008 21:32:02
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Fritz 10 opening library
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Michael Diosi <[email protected] > wrote:
> Hello Chesslovers,
>
> Here is an example of the "high quality" of the opening library of
> Fritz 10, a ChessBase product. As you can see the entire game is
> contained in the opening library. At the end of the game the
> position is a mate in two.
>
> 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. d3 h6 7. Nf3
> e4 8. Qe2 Nxc4 9. dxc4 Bc5 10. O-O O-O 11. Nfd2 Bg4 12. Qe1 Qd7
> 13. Nb3 Bf3 14. Bf4 Qg4 15. Bg3 Nh5 16. Nxc5 Nf4 17. Nxe4 Qh3 *
>
> This was not fixed from Fritz 8 => Fritz 9 => Fritz 10. I doubt it
> if it was fixed for Fritz 11. Of course they were notified about
> this.
The move 10.O-O is marked as `?' in the Fritz 8 opening book, and
given a probability of 0% -- Fritz will never play that move as White.
It's only in the book so that Fritz knows how to respond as Black, in
the case taht White is foolish to play 10.O-O.
Nice try but no cigar.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Sadistic Spoon (TM): it's like a piece
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ of cutlery but it wants to hurt you!
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Date: 22 Jul 2008 09:21:17
From: Michael Diosi
Subject: Re: Fritz 10 opening library
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Hi,
Maybe you should take a look at the opening book yourself. This was of
course just an example of what is in there. Serious also free opening books
don't have such moves included. There is no need for them. The only reason
for including such moves is to say "look our book is 200 Mb in size" and
size might matter in some conditions but not here.
If the program needs the book to "know" what to after the catling answer
then it is even more crap.
Michael
Mind the Base...join the Arena
"David Richerby" <[email protected] > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Yvv*[email protected]...
> Michael Diosi <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hello Chesslovers,
>>
>> Here is an example of the "high quality" of the opening library of
>> Fritz 10, a ChessBase product. As you can see the entire game is
>> contained in the opening library. At the end of the game the
>> position is a mate in two.
>>
>> 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. d3 h6 7. Nf3
>> e4 8. Qe2 Nxc4 9. dxc4 Bc5 10. O-O O-O 11. Nfd2 Bg4 12. Qe1 Qd7
>> 13. Nb3 Bf3 14. Bf4 Qg4 15. Bg3 Nh5 16. Nxc5 Nf4 17. Nxe4 Qh3 *
>>
>> This was not fixed from Fritz 8 => Fritz 9 => Fritz 10. I doubt it
>> if it was fixed for Fritz 11. Of course they were notified about
>> this.
>
> The move 10.O-O is marked as `?' in the Fritz 8 opening book, and
> given a probability of 0% -- Fritz will never play that move as White.
> It's only in the book so that Fritz knows how to respond as Black, in
> the case taht White is foolish to play 10.O-O.
>
> Nice try but no cigar.
>
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby Sadistic Spoon (TM): it's like a
> piece
> www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ of cutlery but it wants to hurt
> you!
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Date: 22 Jul 2008 15:32:27
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Fritz 10 opening library
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Michael Diosi <[email protected] > wrote:
> "David Richerby" <[email protected]> schrieb:
>> The move 10.O-O is marked as `?' in the Fritz 8 opening book, and
>> given a probability of 0% -- Fritz will never play that move as
>> White. It's only in the book so that Fritz knows how to respond as
>> Black, in the case taht White is foolish to play 10.O-O.
>
> Maybe you should take a look at the opening book yourself. This was
> of course just an example of what is in there.
And it was just an example that didn't back up your argument at all.
How about *you* take a look at the opening book and come up with the
evidence to support your statements? (Note: I'm not claiming there
are no bad lines in there; I'm just saying that it's not my job to
find them, since I'm not the one who's claiming they exist.)
> Serious also free opening books don't have such moves included.
> There is no need for them. The only reason for including such moves
> is to say "look our book is 200 Mb in size" and size might matter in
> some conditions but not here.
OK, so it's not really necessary to include this sort of stuff in the
book but it's not really harmful, either. Yes, it allows the
marketroids to claim this huge book but it's easy to see through that.
> If the program needs the book to "know" what to after the catling
> answer then it is even more crap.
Oh, come on. Fritz isn't the strongest engine in the world but it's a
long way from being `crap'. Are you still confused about why
ChessBase won't provide you with a review copy?
Dave.
--
David Richerby Technicolor Gerbil (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ children's pet but it's in realistic
colour!
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Date: 22 Jul 2008 17:59:19
From: Michael Diosi
Subject: Re: Fritz 10 opening library
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Hi,
This is the way I usualy start my mails. How abou you ?
>
> And it was just an example that didn't back up your argument at all.
> How about *you* take a look at the opening book and come up with the
> evidence to support your statements? (Note: I'm not claiming there
> are no bad lines in there; I'm just saying that it's not my job to
> find them, since I'm not the one who's claiming they exist.)
>
No this is the job of ChessBase, they advertise the the product as handmade
by opening experts and are selling it to you and give you a bad book for the
money.
So what do you claim ?
>> Serious also free opening books don't have such moves included.
>> There is no need for them. The only reason for including such moves
>> is to say "look our book is 200 Mb in size" and size might matter in
>> some conditions but not here.
>
> OK, so it's not really necessary to include this sort of stuff in the
> book but it's not really harmful, either. Yes, it allows the
> marketroids to claim this huge book but it's easy to see through that.
>
So why not putting each and every possible in the book, your logic is
brilliant.
>> If the program needs the book to "know" what to after the catling
>> answer then it is even more crap.
>
> Oh, come on. Fritz isn't the strongest engine in the world but it's a
> long way from being `crap'. Are you still confused about why
> ChessBase won't provide you with a review copy?
>
It is if it needs that line in the book to "know" what to do then it is more
than crap shall I call the company GarbageBase (a lot of "high quality
games" can be found in their BigBase and MegaBase products some are even 3
moves long and also some games from the future 2015, 2049, 2050,... are
included wow that's what I call quality). It is a crap engine for analysis
and doesn't know the rules of chess. What else do you call crap ? Ever seen
this mentioned by people who usualy got a review copy anywhere ? Did you see
it mentioned by them anywhere ? Did you ever call them on the phoone to see
their reaction ?
Belive me they are not interested in chess or serving custemers, they are
just interested in making money and then kicking those custemers. .
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby Technicolor Gerbil (TM): it's
> like a
> www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ children's pet but it's in
> realistic
> colour!
Michael Diosi
Mind the Base (as soon as possible) ...join the Arena (till it's not to
late)
http://www.playwitharena.com
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Fritz 10 opening library
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Date: 23 Jul 2008 16:07:44
From: Michael Diosi
Subject: Re: Fritz 10 opening library
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Hello,
Here is an example of the 1-3 moves "high qulaity" games contained in the
Fritz 10 database. Yes they call games from players with 1817 ELO high
qulaity: http://www.playwitharena.com/common/pic/cb-highquality.
I only checked my 1999 BigBase and wouldn't ever buy such a crap ever again.
A friend told me there are such games also contained in the BigDatabase
2006. Not installed right now, I don't keep crap on my PC.
Michael Diosi
http://www.playwitharena.com
Mind the Base... join the Arena
"Martin Brown" <
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Fritz 10 opening library
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Date: 23 Jul 2008 16:59:46
From: Michael Diosi
Subject: Re: Fritz 10 opening library
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Hello,
" >
> You do your case no good at all when you complain about another products
> "qulaity" (sic) whilst making mistakes of your own.
I don't sell anything. I don't kick users for telling me about bugs in Arena
what ChessBase does.
Regards,
Michael Diosi
http://www.playwitharena.com
Mind the Base...join the Arena
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Fritz 10 opening library
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