Does rating correlate to game length???

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Date: 03 Mar 2008 02:22:39
From: J.D. Walker
Subject: Does rating correlate to game length???

Greetings Chess Friends,

Does rating correlate to game length??? Sanny was suggesting something
like that... I doubt it, but here is the score of a recent 3 minute
blitz game for him to chew on...

[Event ""]
[Site "chessclub.com"]
[Date "2008.3.3"]
[Round ""]
[White "TransWarp AKA Rybka"]
[Black "Smallville AKA Hikaru Nakamura"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "A00"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]

1.g3 g6 2.e4 Bg7 3.Bg2 b6 4.d4 Bb7 5.Nc3 d6 6.Nge2 e6 7.O-O Ne7
8.d5 e5 9.Bg5 h6 10.Be3 Nd7 11.a4 a5 12.Nc1 O-O 13.Qd2 Kh7 14.Nd3
Nc5 15.Nxc5 dxc5 16.Bf3 Nc8 17.Nb5 Ba6 18.c4 Bxb5 19.axb5 Nd6
20.Qe2 Qe7 21.Bd2 Rad8 22.Bc3 Rde8 23.b3 Rd8 24.Ra2 Rde8 25.Rd1
Kh8 26.Qe3 Kh7 27.Bg2 Kh8 28.Ra4 Kh7 29.Qe2 Kh8 30.Rb1 Kh7 31.h4
Kh8 32.h5 g5 33.Rd1 f6 34.Ra2 Rd8 35.Re1 Nb7 36.Bh3 Rfe8 37.Be6
Bf8 38.Kg2 Qg7 39.Qf3 Bd6 40.Rea1 Rb8 41.Rd1 Rf8 42.Qg4 Rfe8
43.Bf5 Rf8 44.Bg6 Nd8 45.Rd3 Rg8 46.Rf3 Rf8 47.Ra1 Kg8 48.Rd1
Kh8 49.Re3 Kg8 50.Re2 Kh8 51.Ra1 Nb7 52.Rf1 Rbd8 53.Rb1 Rb8 54.Rc2
Rbd8 55.Rd1 Rd7 56.Qe6 Re7 57.Qh3 Kg8 58.Bf5 Kh8 59.Bc8 Nd8 60.Qg4
Kh7 61.Ra2 Kh8 62.Bf5 Kg8 63.Re2 Kh8 64.Bc8 Kg8 65.Rb2 Kh8 66.Ra2
Kg8 67.Bf5 Kh8 68.Re2 Kg8 69.Rc2 Kh8 70.Rcd2 Kg8 71.Qf3 Kh8 72.Ra2
Kg8 73.Bg6 Kh8 74.Qg4 Kg8 75.Rh1 Kh8 76.Bf5 Kg8 77.Rha1 Kh8 78.Re1
Kg8 79.Bc8 Kh8 80.Rb1 Kg8 81.Bf5 Kh8 82.Rba1 Kg8 83.f3 Kh8 84.Rd1
Kg8 85.Qh3 Kh8 86.Qh1 Kg8 87.Qe1 Kh8 88.Qd2 Kg8 89.Qe2 Kh8 90.Qf2
Kg8 91.Qg1 Kh8 92.Qe3 Kg8 93.Rc1 Kh8 94.Kg1 Kg8 95.Rd1 Kh8 96.Re2
Kg8 97.Rf2 Kh8 98.Kg2 Kg8 99.Rc1 Kh8 100.Rcf1 Kg8 101.Rd2 Kh8
102.Ra1 Kg8 103.Qd3 Kh8 104.Rdd1 Kg8 105.Qe3 Kh8 106.Rh1 Kg8
107.Ra4 Kh8 108.Rb1 Kg8 109.Rd1 Kh8 110.Rh1 Kg8 111.Ra2 Kh8 112.Qd2
Kg8 113.Qe2 Kh8 114.Rd1 Kg8 115.Qe3 Kh8 116.Qd3 Kg8 117.Kg1 Kh8
118.Bd2 Kg8 119.Rf1 Kh8 120.Be3 Kg8 121.Kg2 Kh8 122.Rd1 Kg8 123.Qc3
Kh8 124.Re1 Kg8 125.Rf1 Kh8 126.Rb2 Kg8 127.Rd1 Kh8 128.Rc1 Kg8
129.Ra2 Kh8 130.Rd2 Kg8 131.Rcd1 Kh8 132.Ra2 Kg8 133.g4 Kh8 134.Bd2
Nf7 135.Qe3 Nd8 136.Bc3 Nb7 137.Kg3 Rd8 138.Rh2 Ree8 139.Re2
Rf8 140.Be6 Rfe8 141.Ra2 Rf8 142.Kg2 Rfe8 143.Bf5 Rf8 144.Kh2
Rfe8 145.Rf1 Rf8 146.Be6 Rfe8 147.Rd1 Rf8 148.Rh1 Rfe8 149.Kg3
Rf8 150.Re1 Rfe8 151.Bf5 Rf8 152.Kg2 Rfe8 153.Bg6 Rf8 154.Rf1
Rfe8 155.Bxe8 Rxe8 156.Re1 Rd8 157.Kg3 Kg8 158.Rc1 Kh8 159.Kg2
Kg8 160.Rd1 Kh8 161.Qd3 Kg8 162.Kg3 Kh8 163.Qf1 Kg8 164.Qf2 Kh8
165.Qe3 Kg8 166.Bb2 Kh8 167.Kg2 Kg8 168.Qf2 Kh8 169.Kg1 Kg8 170.Bc3
Kh8 171.Qe3 Kg8 172.Qd3 Kh8 173.Ra4 Kg8 174.Kg2 Kf8 175.Qe2 Ke8
176.Qe3 Kd7 177.Kg3 Kc8 178.Rda1 Rf8 179.Kh3 Kd7 180.R4a2 Kd8
181.Rf2 Kd7 182.Rff1 Ke7 183.Kg2 Kd7 184.Ra4 Ke7 185.Kg3 Kd7
186.Bd2 Ke7 187.Ra2 Kd7 188.Bc3 Ke7 189.Rg1 Kf7 190.Rd1 Kg8 191.Qd3
Kh8 192.Kg2 Kh7 193.Qe3 Kh8 194.Rda1 Kg8 195.Rf2 Kh8 196.Qd3
Kg8 197.Kg3 Kh8 198.Rh1 Kg8 199.Qc2 Kh8 200.Re2 Kg8 201.Rd1 Kh8
202.Qd2 Kg8 203.Qd3 Qe7 204.Kh3 Kh8 205.f4 gxf4 206.Rg2 Rg8 207.Qf3
Rg7 208.Kh2 Rg8 209.Rf1 Rg7 210.Rfg1 Rg8 211.Rb2 Rg7 212.Re2
Rg8 213.Reg2 Rg7 214.Ra1 Rg8 215.Be1 Rg7 216.Bh4 Rg8 217.Kg1
Rg7 218.Rd2 Rg8 219.Kf1 Rg7 220.Rg2 Rg8 221.Ke2 Rg7 222.Kd3 Rg8
223.Kc2 Rg7 224.Be1 Rg8 225.Bc3 Rg7 226.Rgg1 Rg8 227.Rad1 Rg7
228.Rd2 Rg8 229.Rf2 Rg7 230.Kb1 Rg8 231.Qe2 Rg7 232.Ka2 Rg8 233.Ka3
Rg7 234.Qf3 Rg8 235.Kb2 Rg7 236.Ra1 Rg8 237.Rg2 Rg7 238.Kc2 Rg8
239.Ra4 Rg7 240.Bd2 Rg8 241.Be1 Rg5 242.Kb2 Kh7 243.Rg1 Kg7 244.Bh4
Kg8 245.Bxg5 fxg5 246.Raa1 Kg7 247.Rg2 Kh7 248.Kc3 Kg7 249.Rf2
Kh7 250.Kb2 Kg7 251.Qc3 Kh7 252.Rf3 Kg8 253.Rff1 Kh7 254.Kc2
Kg8 255.Rg1 Kh7 256.Kb2 Kg8 257.Rg2 Kh7 258.Rh2 Kg8 259.Rf1 Kh7
260.Rd2 Kg8 261.Qd3 Kf8 262.Rg2 Ke8 263.Kc3 Kd8 264.Qf3 Kd7 265.Ra2
Kd8 266.Rfa1 Kd7 267.Rc2 Kd8 268.Qd3 Kd7 269.Rf2 Kd8 270.Raf1
Kd7 271.Kb2 Kd8 272.Rd2 Kd7 273.Rg1 Kd8 274.Re2 Kd7 275.Ra1 Kd8
276.Qf3 Kd7 277.Rf1 Kd8 278.Rc2 Kd7 279.Qg2 Kd8 280.Rc3 Kd7 281.Rcf3
Kd8 282.Kc3 Kd7 283.Ra1 Kd8 284.Ra4 Kd7 285.Rf1 Kd8 286.Kc2 Kd7
287.Raa1 Kd8 288.Qe2 Kd7 289.Ra3 Kd8 290.Kc3 Kd7 291.Ra2 Kd8
292.Qf3 Kd7 293.Rc2 Kd8 294.Rfc1 Kd7 295.b4 cxb4+ 296.Kb2 Bc5
297.Rf1 Bd6 298.Kb1 Nc5 299.Rb2 Qe8 300.Kc1 Qf7 301.Rb1 Qh7 302.Re1
Qg7 303.Kc2 Qh7 304.Rb2 Qh8 305.Re2 Qh7 306.Qh1 Qh8 307.Rb1 Qh7
308.Ree1 Ke7 309.Qg2 Kf6 310.Kd1 Qh8 311.Qc2 Qf8 312.Ke2 Qd8
313.Kf3 Be7 314.Rf1 Qd6 315.Rb2 Nb7 316.Kg2 Qc5 317.Qf2 Qxf2+
318.Kxf2 Nd6 319.Kf3 Nb7 320.Ra1 Bc5 321.Rab1 Nd6 322.Rc2 Ke7
323.Rb3 Kd7 324.Rd3 Nb7 325.Rd1 Kd6 326.Rb1 Bd4 327.Re2 Kc5 328.Rd2
a4 329.Rc2 b3 330.Rh2 Nd6 331.Rg2 Nxc4 332.Rd1 a3 333.d6 cxd6
334.Rc1 b2 335.Rh1 a2 336.Rxb2 Bxb2 337.Ke2 a1Q 338.Rxa1 Bxa1
339.Kf2 Bd4+ 340.Ke2 Kxb5 341.Kf3 Kc5 342.Ke2 b5 343.Kf3 b4 344.Ke2
b3 345.Kd3 Na3 346.Ke2 Nc2 347.Kd2 Kc4 348.Kc1 Ne3 349.Kb1 Nxg4
350.Kc1 Nf6 351.Kd2 Nxe4+ 352.Kc1 Nf6 353.Kd2 Nxh5 354.Kd1 Nf6
355.Kc1 g4 356.Kd1 h5 357.Kc1 h4 358.Kd2 h3 359.Ke1 g3 360.Kd1
e4 361.Ke1 d5 362.Kd1 f3 363.Ke1 e3 364.Kd1 h2 365.Ke1 g2 366.Kd1
f2 367.Kc1 g1N 368.Kd1 h1N 369.Kc1 f1N 370.Kb1 e2 371.Kc1 e1N
372.Kd1 Nef3 373.Kc1 Nfg3 374.Kb1 Bb2 375.Kxb2 d4 376.Ka3 d3
377.Kb2 d2 378.Ka3 d1N 379.Ka4 b2 380.Ka5 b1N 381.Kb6 Ne3 382.Kc6
Ngf5 383.Kb6 Nhg3 384.Kb7 Nge4 385.Kc6 Nh3 386.Kb7 Nf4 387.Kc6
Nbc3 388.Kb7 Ne5 389.Ka6 Ned5 390.Kb7 Kc5 391.Ka6 Nc4 392.Kb7
Ne6 393.Ka6 Nfd6 394.Ka7 Nb4 395.Ka8 Kc6 396.Ka7 Ncd5 397.Kb8
Nd7+ 398.Ka7 Nef6 399.Ka8 Nfe8 400.Ka7 Nef6 401.Ka8 Nh5 402.Ka7
Nhf4 403.Ka8 Nd5b6+ 404.Ka7 Nb5# 0-1

For those that are too lazy to play this out, in the final position
Nakamura has seven knights!!
--

Cordially,
Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.

Date: 05 Mar 2008 23:16:31
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: False Data, 404 Moves in 180 Seconds???

> > Incase we assume your data is correct, Then 800 Moves were played by
> > both sides in 180 seconds. So every second 4 moves were played that is
> > not possible.
>
> No, each player had 180s. =A0So it's a move every half-second.
>

Yes a move can be made in 1/2 a second then it is possible But 4 moves
in 1 second is not possible.

Because moving mouse and understanding opponents move itself will take
1/4th second.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 05 Mar 2008 02:44:33
From: Sanny
Subject: False Data, 404 Moves in 180 Seconds???

> > I'm assuming there was an increment there (a few seconds added to the
> > clock for each move made). =A0It's hard to imagine making 404 moves in
> > only 180 seconds.

> Actually not. =A0Nakamura likes to play 3/0 against Rybka because he can
> win on time on occasion. =A0He is a very fast player!

See 400 Moves were played in 180 seconds not Possible.

I think this is thisway Rybka was making moves in 1/4th of a second
and Nakamura was playing in 10-20 sec / move. And the information is
not Complete.

It was only Rybkas that made 400 Moves in 180 Seconds.

Ask Nakamura to play at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Then we will have a recorded game with Time taken by each player.

Incase we assume your data is correct, Then 800 Moves were played by
both sides in 180 seconds. So every second 4 moves were played that is
not possible.

Try playing 4 moves / second without thinking Can you play 800 Moves
in 180 seconds answer is NO

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 05 Mar 2008 22:56:26
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: False Data, 404 Moves in 180 Seconds???

Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Incase we assume your data is correct, Then 800 Moves were played by
> both sides in 180 seconds. So every second 4 moves were played that is
> not possible.

No, each player had 180s. So it's a move every half-second.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Disposable Slimy Smokes (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a pack of cigarettes but it's
covered in goo and you never have to
clean it!

Date: 05 Mar 2008 07:37:42
From: J.D. Walker
Subject: Re: False Data, 404 Moves in 180 Seconds???

Sanny wrote:
>>> I'm assuming there was an increment there (a few seconds added to the
>>> clock for each move made). It's hard to imagine making 404 moves in
>>> only 180 seconds.
>
>> Actually not. Nakamura likes to play 3/0 against Rybka because he can
>> win on time on occasion. He is a very fast player!
>
> See 400 Moves were played in 180 seconds not Possible.
>
> I think this is thisway Rybka was making moves in 1/4th of a second
> and Nakamura was playing in 10-20 sec / move. And the information is
> not Complete.
>
> It was only Rybkas that made 400 Moves in 180 Seconds.
>
> Ask Nakamura to play at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> Then we will have a recorded game with Time taken by each player.
>
> Incase we assume your data is correct, Then 800 Moves were played by
> both sides in 180 seconds. So every second 4 moves were played that is
> not possible.
>
> Try playing 4 moves / second without thinking Can you play 800 Moves
> in 180 seconds answer is NO
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
>
Sanny,

This is a matter of public record for members of ICC. Nakamura's game
history is available for inspection at ICC. I watched this particular
game while it was being played.

To be technically precise, ICC has a system of lag compensation in place
that adds a fraction of a second per move to the clock to compensate for
transmission lag. This is not the same as an agreed upon time
increment. There is also the possibility of the pre-move and of move
queuing. Move queuing is dangerous because you lose the ability to
respond to the opponents changes in plans. Rybka wins this way too.

The part that is truly impossible is that GetClub could not possibly
play this fast. On that point I agree.

For your information, Rybka is a winner of the world computer chess
championship, and GM Nakamura has won the US championship as well as a
number of international tournaments. Nakamura is well known as a very
strong blitz player.

Your were looking for new goals for your development. Perhaps you'd
like to improve your program to play at blitz speeds. That might be
welcome by your players who chafe at slower speeds.
--

Cordially,
Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.

Date: 05 Mar 2008 12:14:47
From: ad
Subject: Re: False Data, 404 Moves in 180 Seconds???

>>> I'm assuming there was an increment there (a few seconds added to the
>>> clock for each move made). It's hard to imagine making 404 moves in
>>> only 180 seconds.
>
>> Actually not. Nakamura likes to play 3/0 against Rybka because he can
>> win on time on occasion. He is a very fast player!
>
> See 400 Moves were played in 180 seconds not Possible.

How you proof this?

>
> I think this is thisway Rybka was making moves in 1/4th of a second
> and Nakamura was playing in 10-20 sec / move. And the information is
> not Complete.
>
> It was only Rybkas that made 400 Moves in 180 Seconds.
>
> Ask Nakamura to play at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Your Beginner level is to week for Nakamura, and an other level takes
too much time. Nakamura plays a whole game in 6 minutes how long would a
game with getclub be???

>
> Then we will have a recorded game with Time taken by each player.
>
> Incase we assume your data is correct, Then 800 Moves were played by
> both sides in 180 seconds. So every second 4 moves were played that is
> not possible.

Each player has 180 seconds, so 800 moves in 360 seconds.
>
> Try playing 4 moves / second without thinking Can you play 800 Moves
> in 180 seconds answer is NO

If you are fast with the mouse this COULD by possible.

>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
>

Bye AD

Date: 03 Mar 2008 18:59:12
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Does rating correlate to game length???

Wow , what a game .....That many moves in 3 min ....

You said 7 knights , how come he did not take Queens ?

Date: 04 Mar 2008 18:33:43
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Does rating correlate to game length???

In article <[email protected] >,
SAT W-7 <[email protected] > wrote:
> Wow , what a game .....That many moves in 3 min ....

I'm assuming there was an increment there (a few seconds added to the
clock for each move made). It's hard to imagine making 404 moves in
only 180 seconds.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Mentholated Edible Sushi (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a raw fish but you can eat it
and it's invigorating!

Date: 04 Mar 2008 13:22:41
From: J.D. Walker
Subject: Re: Does rating correlate to game length???

David Richerby wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> SAT W-7 <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Wow , what a game .....That many moves in 3 min ....
>
> I'm assuming there was an increment there (a few seconds added to the
> clock for each move made). It's hard to imagine making 404 moves in
> only 180 seconds.
>
>
> Dave.
>

Actually not. Nakamura likes to play 3/0 against Rybka because he can
win on time on occasion. He is a very fast player!
--

Cordially,
Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.

Date: 04 Mar 2008 09:54:51
From: J.D. Walker
Subject: Re: Does rating correlate to game length???

SAT W-7 wrote:
> Wow , what a game .....That many moves in 3 min ....
>
> You said 7 knights , how come he did not take Queens ?
>

Perhaps it had something to do with the thrill of leading an imaginary,
but successful, cavalry charge against the strongest computer chess
engine in the world.... :) Go humans!
--

Cordially,
Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.