Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

Main

Date: 24 Feb 2008 21:22:38
From: dos-man 64
Subject: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

I've been playing chess for a long time. My father taught me how to
play when I was a teen. My friends and I have played off and on
through the years. Recently, I've been playing most of my games
against an Excalibur machine with magnetic pieces. I've also bought
some very good literature to supplement my existing strategies.

I started off at the lowest level and with each win I crank it up 10
levels. I'm now up to about 60 and the computer just can't be beaten
at this level. The games are always alarmingly close. But the computer
just always seems to win, except for one time when he apparently
didn't feel very comfortable about his positions so he forced a
stalemate. There may have been another time where I missed a chance to
nail him. But we're talking about a lot of narrow losses over several
months. I have to wonder how in the hell can anybody beat these
things.

At one point can one claim to be a chess expert? What level do you
have to be able to consistantly beat the computer at??

dos-man

Date: 27 Feb 2008 22:47:33
From: Sanny
Subject: Play at GetClub

On Feb 25, 6:54=A0pm, laocmo <[email protected] > wrote:
> Frustrating isn't it. I've playedchessfor 50 years and was able to
> beat the electronic machines through most of the 1980's. Then they got
> tough. My current nemesis is being able to keep the game dead even for
> 30 or so moves. Then due to fatigue or impatience I slip up, lose a pawn
> in some wild machine generated exchange, and it's downhill from then on.
> I'm too proud to play the thing on any level but it's tournament level.
> Then boredom on my part takes its toll. I never play anymore with any
> hope of a win, just play to see how long it takes me to get careless.
> Then I start a new game.
>
> Personally I think thechesscomputer has ruinedchessfor a lot of
> beginners. My kids, neighbor kids, nieces and nephews were all taught to
> play by me when they were youngsters. We had fun. Then I made the
> mistake of giving themchesscomputers for gifts. Bad move. After
> getting their butts kicked a couple dozen times, they lost all interest
> in the game. Now I can't get them to play at all.
>
> They see it as I now do more and more so as the years pass.Chessis an
> interesting game, but ultimately a waste of time. I still admire people
> who take it seriously, who can beat the machine, and still love to play
> humans. I'm no longer in that category.
>
> I often wonder, just what percentage of off hand games with the computer
> are outright wins for the Masters who use them.
> All those traps, zaps, and pitfalls, forks, pins, skewers, etc as
> illustrated in all the books for beginners are useless against even the
> weaker computers. No computer I've ever played will allow a serious pin
> or discovered check to break its stride.

Try playing with Beginner Level at GetClub.

It plays as good as a Human Opponent It is just 1700-1800 Rated. So if
you think harder chances are you may win in 1/ 5 games.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

If you are strong player then try Easy Level which needs lot of
thinking else you are gone.

I have found many players beaten the Easy Level.

If you are tournament Player try the Normal Level it will play like
1900-2000 Rated Player.

Here is rough time taken by them. Its free to play and your games are
recoerded and then anyone can analyze them.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Beginner Level : 5-10 sec/ move [For good Players]
Easy Level: 20-40 sec / move [For Tournament Players]
Normal Level: 1-2 min / move [For Rated Players]

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 26 Feb 2008 09:31:42
From: dos-man 64
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

On Feb 26, 7:04 am, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
> Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote:
>
> > dos-man 64 wrote:
> >> My fear is that my IQ level (whatever it is) in conjunction with my
> >> knowledge of chess and tactical strategy has led to me to a brick
> >> wall. I may not be able to improve much past where I am now,
> >> wherever that is.
>
> > I recommend the following book to get past that brick wall:
>
> > How to Reassess Your Chess: The Complete Chess-Mastery Course
>
> Going by the impression I get from dos-man's descriptions of his play,
> I think that might be a little advanced. For the time being, I'd
> recommend practising tactics and reading Dan Heisman's column at
> chesscafe.com
>
> http://www.chesscafe.com/heisman/heisman.htm
>
> always links to the latest article and there's an archive at
>
> http://www.chesscafe.com/archives/archives.htm#Novice%20Nook
>
> _How to Reassess Your Chess_ is, I think, aimed at a slightly stronger
> player.
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby Fluorescent Beer (TM): it's likewww.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a refreshing lager but it'll hurt
> your eyes!

I will try to check out these resources in a few days. I'm working 12
hour days right now. Whew!
The main resource I have been using right now is how to beat computers
at chess by Lev Albert.
A very good book that definitely helped me.

dos-man

Date: 26 Feb 2008 03:03:17
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

dos-man 64 wrote:

>The machine is a Saber IV. The model # is 901E4. Apparently,
>I'm only up to level 30. That's pathetic. I beat him on
>level 1, 6, 11, etc. If I can't win on 30, how can win on
>anything higher?

The Excalibur Saber IV is advertised as "Estimated rating 1750"

The german Active chess Elo list estimates it as a 1422
(estimated error +233 -200).

The average adult USCF tournament player is rated about 1450.

References:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7378/histogra.htm
http://www.schachcomputer.info/html/aktivschach_elo_liste.html
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.schachcomputer.info/html/aktivschach_elo_liste.html&sa=X&oi=translate

>What's really frustrating is the way the games always go. I don't sit
>back on defense hoping to withstand a computer's onslaught. I go on
>all-out attacks right from the first move. Somehow, the computer (at
>level 30) always manages to withstand the assault and then
>counterattack. I've tried sacrificing minor pieces to prevent him from
>being able to castle, but that didn't work either.

The book I recommend below will show you a better way.

>My fear is that my IQ level (whatever it is) in conjunction with my
>knowledge of chess and tactical strategy has led to me to a brick
>wall. I may not be able to improve much past where I am now, wherever
>that is.

I recommend the following book to get past that brick wall:

How to Reassess Your Chess: The Complete Chess-Mastery Course
Expanded 3rd Edition by Jeremy Silman.
ISBN-10: 1890085006
ISBN-13: 978-1890085001
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890085006/

--
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/ >

Date: 26 Feb 2008 16:22:39
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

I have Excalibur , Ivan the Conqueror and it says on the box ELO I800
and i know it is not that much with some of the moves it makes.
I am like you i only play the strongest level and i have beaten it one
time , i wish i recorded the game ..I have lost over 400 + times over
the years , after one or two hours of play i blunder and it beats me
.Sometimes a lot earlier than that but i feel like i wasted my time
.Then again i enjoy playing chess win or lose ....I do get a little
irritated but not enough to want to quit...
So then i started playing Ivan vs other computers and i find myself
wanting Ivan to kick the others computers butt ..ha ha ha....
As i have played other computers i have seen Ivans weakness and yet i
am not good enough to exploit them for me to win ..I try ....
Right now Ivan vs Getclub , move eleven was the losing move , go look
at Sannys post and he has our game moves ...When Ivan made that move i
was yelling at Ivan , why ??? ha ha
I am not going to resign Ivan , i will make him fight to the death ,
checkmate ...I have been studding this position and Ivan is in trouble
but i belive he can find a way out ???? Well i know he will lose but i
just do not want to give up on him..Maybe Getclub will blunder ?

If i ever get a real computer i will get HIRCS chess program because
i like that one and i will play all commers ...

Computer to Computer battle , i like it + i see moves and i wornder why
then as the game moves a few more moves the reasons come to light ....

getclub put his bishop on the H-6 square a few moves ago and now i see
how that bugs Ivan .
So now if i play a game vs a human i mite do that move if i get a chance
....Ivan has to use his rook to cover the G-7 square when he really
needs that pice to fight with ....

by by

keep a eye on the game , Ivan says getclub is winning + 2.0 now.

Date: 27 Feb 2008 22:39:03
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

> I tried to play atGetClub, but it keeps sending me back to the login
> screen. I keep logging in and it keeps sending me back again. Oh,
> well.

Have you Validated your Email? An email was sent to your Address you
need to Validate your Email by Clicking the Verification Code Link.

Check to see you have Cookies Enabled.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 26 Feb 2008 17:57:05
From: dos-man 64
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

On Feb 26, 7:22 pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> I have Excalibur , Ivan the Conqueror and it says on the box ELO I800
> and i know it is not that much with some of the moves it makes.
> I am like you i only play the strongest level and i have beaten it one
> time , i wish i recorded the game ..I have lost over 400 + times over
> the years , after one or two hours of play i blunder and it beats me
> .Sometimes a lot earlier than that but i feel like i wasted my time
> .Then again i enjoy playing chess win or lose ....I do get a little
> irritated but not enough to want to quit...
> So then i started playing Ivan vs other computers and i find myself
> wanting Ivan to kick the others computers butt ..ha ha ha....
> As i have played other computers i have seen Ivans weakness and yet i
> am not good enough to exploit them for me to win ..I try ....
> Right now Ivan vs Getclub , move eleven was the losing move , go look
> at Sannys post and he has our game moves ...When Ivan made that move i
> was yelling at Ivan , why ??? ha ha
> I am not going to resign Ivan , i will make him fight to the death ,
> checkmate ...I have been studding this position and Ivan is in trouble
> but i belive he can find a way out ???? Well i know he will lose but i
> just do not want to give up on him..Maybe Getclub will blunder ?
>
> If i ever get a real computer i will get HIRCS chess program because
> i like that one and i will play all commers ...
>
> Computer to Computer battle , i like it + i see moves and i wornder why
> then as the game moves a few more moves the reasons come to light ....
>
> getclub put his bishop on the H-6 square a few moves ago and now i see
> how that bugs Ivan .
> So now if i play a game vs a human i mite do that move if i get a chance
> ....Ivan has to use his rook to cover the G-7 square when he really
> needs that pice to fight with ....
>
> by by
>
> keep a eye on the game , Ivan says getclub is winning + 2.0 now.

Naturally, It's like rooting for Arnold in Terminator 2 :D

One area where I think I am weak and can improve is the endgame. It
just seems like the computer always outmaneuvers me somehow. You would
think I would be doing even better with fewer pieces on the board, but
it seems to be the opposite.

I tried to play at GetClub, but it keeps sending me back to the login
screen. I keep logging in and it keeps sending me back again. Oh,
well.

dos-man

Date: 26 Feb 2008 22:07:25
From: dos-man 64
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

On Feb 26, 10:25 pm, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> That is some thing i do not have to worry about because Sanny is making
> getclubs move ..
>
> Yes you are right the end games , you would think lesser pieces we
> could win but i lose too .
> The computer seems to pull great moves out of his arse ..ha ha....
>
> well just keep playing and having fun ..
>
> ...
>
> I will make Ivan keep fighting ....For me it is pride , i just want Ivan
> to win no matter how strong the other computer is ..Ivan the
> underdog...ha ha
>
> hey play your computer vs other computers ..
>
> maybe ivan vs yours ?
>
> nite .......

No, it isn't something that I have tried.... yet. Guess I'm just too
busy. I'm lucky when I can find the time to play a game myself. 12
hour Swing shifts this month, shudder.

I've only recently started playing by email correspondence using the
very fine service offered by chesspostcard.com. Another computer for
Ivan to battle it out with ;D

dos-man

Date: 26 Feb 2008 19:25:05
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

That is some thing i do not have to worry about because Sanny is making
getclubs move ..

Yes you are right the end games , you would think lesser pieces we
could win but i lose too .
The computer seems to pull great moves out of his arse ..ha ha....

well just keep playing and having fun ..

...

I will make Ivan keep fighting ....For me it is pride , i just want Ivan
to win no matter how strong the other computer is ..Ivan the
underdog...ha ha

hey play your computer vs other computers ..

maybe ivan vs yours ?

nite .......

Date: 26 Feb 2008 12:04:42
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/ > wrote:
> dos-man 64 wrote:
>> My fear is that my IQ level (whatever it is) in conjunction with my
>> knowledge of chess and tactical strategy has led to me to a brick
>> wall. I may not be able to improve much past where I am now,
>> wherever that is.
>
> I recommend the following book to get past that brick wall:
>
> How to Reassess Your Chess: The Complete Chess-Mastery Course

Going by the impression I get from dos-man's descriptions of his play,
I think that might be a little advanced. For the time being, I'd
recommend practising tactics and reading Dan Heisman's column at
chesscafe.com

http://www.chesscafe.com/heisman/heisman.htm

always links to the latest article and there's an archive at

http://www.chesscafe.com/archives/archives.htm#Novice%20Nook

_How to Reassess Your Chess_ is, I think, aimed at a slightly stronger
player.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Fluorescent Beer (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a refreshing lager but it'll hurt
your eyes!

Date: 26 Feb 2008 00:07:17
From: yearlypap08
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

dos-man 64;260150 Wrote:
> I've been playing chess for a long time. My father taught me how to
> play when I was a teen. My friends and I have played off and on
> through the years. Recently, I've been playing most of my games
> against an Excalibur machine with magnetic pieces. I've also bought
> some very good literature to supplement my existing strategies.
>
> I started off at the lowest level and with each win I crank it up 10
> levels. I'm now up to about 60 and the computer just can't be beaten
> at this level. The games are always alarmingly close. But the computer
> just always seems to win, except for one time when he apparently
> didn't feel very comfortable about his positions so he forced a
> stalemate. There may have been another time where I missed a chance to
> nail him. But we're talking about a lot of narrow losses over several
> months. I have to wonder how in the hell can anybody beat these
> things.
>
> At one point can one claim to be a chess expert? What level do you
> have to be able to consistantly beat the computer at??
>
> dos-man

Yep. Excalibur computers are beatable. And even though I'm not a
Expert, I used to beat my Excalibur Kingmaster III all the time. Ho
did I do it? I looked for repetition and errors in its play. One erro
is that the KMIII will try to promote if you place your king on the to
corner of the square of promotion. (So after it eventually plays p=Q
you respond with King takes Queen.) Maybe this error is repeated i
your Excalibur computer?

So just hang in there. You'll eventually beat it on a regular basis
But you still won't be an Expert! Good Luck

--
yearlypap08

Date: 25 Feb 2008 16:23:20
From: dos-man 64
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

On Feb 25, 4:23 am, Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/ > wrote:
> dos-man 64 wrote:
>
> dos-man. Interesting handle. You might want to taka a look at
> the alt.msdos mnewsgroup.
>
> >I've been playing chess for a long time. My father taught me how to
> >play when I was a teen. My friends and I have played off and on
> >through the years. Recently, I've been playing most of my games
> >against an Excalibur machine with magnetic pieces. I've also bought
> >some very good literature to supplement my existing strategies.
>
> >I started off at the lowest level and with each win I crank it up 10
> >levels. I'm now up to about 60 and the computer just can't be beaten
> >at this level. The games are always alarmingly close. But the computer
> >just always seems to win, except for one time when he apparently
> >didn't feel very comfortable about his positions so he forced a
> >stalemate. There may have been another time where I missed a chance to
> >nail him. But we're talking about a lot of narrow losses over several
> >months. I have to wonder how in the hell can anybody beat these
> >things.
>
> There are plenty of folks who can beat an Excalibur, but there are
> far better chess programs than the one inside your Excalibur. The
> best of them are good enough to give the top-rated humans trouble.
> But so what? There was a time when horses were beating the best
> race cars, until the race cars got to be a lot faster than any
> horse. This does not seem to bother those who enjoy horse racing.
>
> >At one point can one claim to be a chess expert?
>
> Look here:
>
> http://www.jaderiver.com/chess/ratings.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_expert
>
> In the US, Experts are in the top 1% of all USCF tournament
> chess players.
>
> >What level do you have to be able to consistantly beat
> >the computer at??
>
> Please post the entire name and model of your chess computer.
> There are many Excalibur macjhines, and some are stronger
> than others. Then I can answer the above question.
>
> --
> misc.business.product-dev: a Usenet newsgroup
> about the Business of Product Development.
> -- Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/>

One of the reasons I like the Excalibur machines is they seem halfway
beatable. I always feel like I can win every game. I'm always one move
away from victory. The move often never comes :D

The nastiest I've played is the chessmaster PC software. Yikes. Even
at easy levels I was getting smoked. One of the games had a feature
where you could print out a certificate of achievement if you could
beat the chessmaster at the highest level. Boy, I tried so hard. One
time I had him back on his heels for a while. Nasty game. The
excalibur machines seem a bit more friendly.

dos-man

Date: 25 Feb 2008 16:11:08
From: dos-man 64
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

On Feb 25, 7:04 am, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
> Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote:
>
> > dos-man 64 wrote:
> >> At one point can one claim to be a chess expert?
>
> > Look here:
>
> >http://www.jaderiver.com/chess/ratings.html
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_expert
>
> > In the US, Experts are in the top 1% of all USCF tournament chess
> > players.
>
> There's a distinction between the USCF Expert title and the concept of
> being an expert at chess. After all, nobody would deny that, say,
> Anand or Topalov is a `chess expert' but they will never be USCF
> Experts.
>
> I think it's clear that dos-man was using the word as an ordinary
> English word, not as a specific reference to USCF titles.
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby Strange Apple (TM): it's like a tastywww.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ fruit but it's totally weird!

I'm not currently a USCF member, but I'm thinking about joining. I
wouldn't expect to do very well in a tournament. But I wouldn't expect
to get killed either. It isn't like I'm making mistakes and giving up
pieces. I play mistake-free chess (tactics not withstanding), and the
computer still wins.

What's really frustrating is the way the games always go. I don't sit
back on defense hoping to withstand a computer's onslaught. I go on
all-out attacks right from the first move. Somehow, the computer (at
level 30) always manages to withstand the assault and then
counterattack. I've tried sacrificing minor pieces to prevent him from
being able to castle, but that didn't work either.

My fear is that my IQ level (whatever it is) in conjunction with my
knowledge of chess and tactical strategy has led to me to a brick
wall. I may not be able to improve much past where I am now, wherever
that is.

dos-man

Date: 25 Feb 2008 15:38:51
From: dos-man 64
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

On Feb 25, 4:23 am, Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/ > wrote:
> dos-man 64 wrote:
>
> dos-man. Interesting handle. You might want to taka a look at
> the alt.msdos mnewsgroup.
>
> >I've been playing chess for a long time. My father taught me how to
> >play when I was a teen. My friends and I have played off and on
> >through the years. Recently, I've been playing most of my games
> >against an Excalibur machine with magnetic pieces. I've also bought
> >some very good literature to supplement my existing strategies.
>
> >I started off at the lowest level and with each win I crank it up 10
> >levels. I'm now up to about 60 and the computer just can't be beaten
> >at this level. The games are always alarmingly close. But the computer
> >just always seems to win, except for one time when he apparently
> >didn't feel very comfortable about his positions so he forced a
> >stalemate. There may have been another time where I missed a chance to
> >nail him. But we're talking about a lot of narrow losses over several
> >months. I have to wonder how in the hell can anybody beat these
> >things.
>
> There are plenty of folks who can beat an Excalibur, but there are
> far better chess programs than the one inside your Excalibur. The
> best of them are good enough to give the top-rated humans trouble.
> But so what? There was a time when horses were beating the best
> race cars, until the race cars got to be a lot faster than any
> horse. This does not seem to bother those who enjoy horse racing.
>
> >At one point can one claim to be a chess expert?
>
> Look here:
>
> http://www.jaderiver.com/chess/ratings.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_expert
>
> In the US, Experts are in the top 1% of all USCF tournament
> chess players.
>
> >What level do you have to be able to consistantly beat
> >the computer at??
>
> Please post the entire name and model of your chess computer.
> There are many Excalibur macjhines, and some are stronger
> than others. Then I can answer the above question.
>
> --
> misc.business.product-dev: a Usenet newsgroup
> about the Business of Product Development.
> -- Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/>

The machine is a Saber IV. The model # is 901E4. Apparently, I'm only
up to level 30.
That's pathetic. I beat him on level 1, 6, 11, etc. If I can't win on
30, how can win on anything higher?

dos-man

Date: 25 Feb 2008 08:54:22
From: laocmo
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

Frustrating isn't it. I've played chess for 50 years and was able to
beat the electronic machines through most of the 1980's. Then they got
tough. My current nemesis is being able to keep the game dead even for
30 or so moves. Then due to fatigue or impatience I slip up, lose a pawn
in some wild machine generated exchange, and it's downhill from then on.
I'm too proud to play the thing on any level but it's tournament level.
Then boredom on my part takes its toll. I never play anymore with any
hope of a win, just play to see how long it takes me to get careless.
Then I start a new game.

Personally I think the chess computer has ruined chess for a lot of
beginners. My kids, neighbor kids, nieces and nephews were all taught to
play by me when they were youngsters. We had fun. Then I made the
mistake of giving them chess computers for gifts. Bad move. After
getting their butts kicked a couple dozen times, they lost all interest
in the game. Now I can't get them to play at all.

They see it as I now do more and more so as the years pass. Chess is an
interesting game, but ultimately a waste of time. I still admire people
who take it seriously, who can beat the machine, and still love to play
humans. I'm no longer in that category.

I often wonder, just what percentage of off hand games with the computer
are outright wins for the Masters who use them.
All those traps, zaps, and pitfalls, forks, pins, skewers, etc as
illustrated in all the books for beginners are useless against even the
weaker computers. No computer I've ever played will allow a serious pin
or discovered check to break its stride.

Date: 25 Feb 2008 18:01:09
From: Morten Skarstad
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

laocmo skrev:
> Personally I think the chess computer has ruined chess for a lot of
> beginners. My kids, neighbor kids, nieces and nephews were all taught to
> play by me when they were youngsters. We had fun. Then I made the
> mistake of giving them chess computers for gifts. Bad move. After
> getting their butts kicked a couple dozen times, they lost all interest
> in the game. Now I can't get them to play at all.

I am not sure if this can be blamed on the current strength of computer
chess. When you are an absolute beginner, _any_ level of opposition will
kick your butt.

I remember myself getting a chess computer when I was a kid in the 80s.
Even on the easiest level it beat me hands down all the time. Then I
gradually started getting some counterplay against it, until I one day
finally managed to get a win against it. I gradually improved my results
against it, also on more advanced levels. Then one day when I grew up, I
found it in a closet, found some batteries for it and tested a few games
on it, and even on the highest level I beat it consitently.

But my advice if you want something for kids is to make something that
can be "dumbed down" to play at an easier level. Chessmaster, for
instance, has plenty of kids-friendly personalities, including a monkey
that makes completely random moves. Also, when playing against beginners
myself, I always remove my queen from the board before making a single move.

Date: 25 Feb 2008 09:23:06
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

dos-man 64 wrote:

dos-man. Interesting handle. You might want to taka a look at
the alt.msdos mnewsgroup.

>I've been playing chess for a long time. My father taught me how to
>play when I was a teen. My friends and I have played off and on
>through the years. Recently, I've been playing most of my games
>against an Excalibur machine with magnetic pieces. I've also bought
>some very good literature to supplement my existing strategies.
>
>I started off at the lowest level and with each win I crank it up 10
>levels. I'm now up to about 60 and the computer just can't be beaten
>at this level. The games are always alarmingly close. But the computer
>just always seems to win, except for one time when he apparently
>didn't feel very comfortable about his positions so he forced a
>stalemate. There may have been another time where I missed a chance to
>nail him. But we're talking about a lot of narrow losses over several
>months. I have to wonder how in the hell can anybody beat these
>things.

There are plenty of folks who can beat an Excalibur, but there are
far better chess programs than the one inside your Excalibur. The
best of them are good enough to give the top-rated humans trouble.
But so what? There was a time when horses were beating the best
race cars, until the race cars got to be a lot faster than any
horse. This does not seem to bother those who enjoy horse racing.

>At one point can one claim to be a chess expert?

Look here:

http://www.jaderiver.com/chess/ratings.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_expert

In the US, Experts are in the top 1% of all USCF tournament
chess players.

>What level do you have to be able to consistantly beat
>the computer at??

Please post the entire name and model of your chess computer.
There are many Excalibur macjhines, and some are stronger
than others. Then I can answer the above question.

--
misc.business.product-dev: a Usenet newsgroup
about the Business of Product Development.
-- Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/ >

Date: 25 Feb 2008 12:04:36
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/ > wrote:
> dos-man 64 wrote:
>> At one point can one claim to be a chess expert?
>
> Look here:
>
> http://www.jaderiver.com/chess/ratings.html
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_expert
>
> In the US, Experts are in the top 1% of all USCF tournament chess
> players.

There's a distinction between the USCF Expert title and the concept of
being an expert at chess. After all, nobody would deny that, say,
Anand or Topalov is a `chess expert' but they will never be USCF
Experts.

I think it's clear that dos-man was using the word as an ordinary
English word, not as a specific reference to USCF titles.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Strange Apple (TM): it's like a tasty
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ fruit but it's totally weird!

Date: 25 Feb 2008 16:37:13
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: Chess computers seem to be unbeatable :(

David Richerby wrote:

>There's a distinction between the USCF Expert title and the concept of
>being an expert at chess. After all, nobody would deny that, say,
>Anand or Topalov is a `chess expert' but they will never be USCF
>Experts.
>
>I think it's clear that dos-man was using the word as an ordinary
>English word, not as a specific reference to USCF titles.

All true, but I would still advise avoiding the term, just as those
who have earned the title "Professor" by playing ragtime piano
should avoid calling themselves doctors outside of that context.