Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Main

Date: 05 Mar 2008 20:33:55
From: Israel Silverman
Subject: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On the internet, no one knows if you're a dog.

But some people care if you are Jewish. And anti-semitism is alive and well,
in places you'd hardly expect to find it.

I play chess on various online services. There is ICS, the internet chess
club. There is also a free internet chess server, called FICS. FICS has
always been a nice place to visit, play a few games. The administration
prides itself on keeping a friendly atmosphere, free of the real world
strife that all of us face. IT even advertises itself as a family friendly
place. And so, the last place you'd expect to find anti-semitism tolerated
is FICS. You'd be wrong.

A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly realized after
the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo." Obviously, this is a not so
sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew." I figured that this must have just
passed by some tired administrator, and so I messaged the online admin, and
asked him to do something about it. He refused, and said I should email an
admin who deals with abuse. I did, and began a surrealistic email
conversation, in which he insisted that there was nothing FICS was going to
do about it, because it could mean anything, and the user had not placed any
antisemitic comments in his user profile. When I asked what other reasonable
meaning that user name could have, he suggested that I ask the user myself.

I asked him to confirm that this was the official position of FICS, and I
emailed others within FICS, and have not received any response. All I can
assume is that anti-semitism there is ok, as long as it is not so baltant
that it becomes obvions to a child under 3.

Date: 19 Mar 2008 13:15:39
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Get a life, Silverman. Quit being so sensitive and defensive, and
quit being so rabidly ethnocentric. You remind me of the caveman in
the TV commercials, but you are much worse. Are you an adult? Have
you ever heard "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will
never hurt me?"

The issue isn't whether this guy is an anti-semite or not, and it
isn't whether this guy's name means "kill the jew" or something else.
The issue is *YOU*. Who cares what his name means? If it bothers
you, go see a psychiatrist, and grow up. Don't you have better things
to do with your time than look for ways to be offended? Besides, ever
heard of free speech?

Date: 28 Mar 2008 21:00:36
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

help bot wrote:
>
>On 23, 9:06 am, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> You
>> wish to force that FICS user to pick another name because
>> you are offended over a very common gaming term that was
>> clearly used to mean "[I] Kills you" (even you now admit
>> this, and have changed your complaint to "which easily
>> can be interpreted as" to reflect the obvious facts).
>
> Someone is really "reaching" here.
>
> First of all, the brackets to *insert* a missing
>word from out of the blue. Note also the fact
>that /even with the inserted word/, the sentence
>is not even grammatically correct. It's pretty
>sad when you give yourself free reign to play
>around with the name, and *still* can't come
>up with a decent English-language sentence,
>so that the name seems to communicate
>something sensibly.

> I understand now that there are kiddies
>who deliberately misspell wurds to try and
>look kute, but even taking this into acct,
>Mr. Silverman's interpretation is a
>complete sentence, "kill zie Jew", while
>the 1 by U guyz is missing a whole wurd,
>[I], and has a plural [killz] where any fool
>knowz there oughtta B a singular [kill].
>
> U guyz need 2, like, get it together.

Refutation by multiple counterexample:

Eye killz joo wit mey sexyness!!!
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2765972311&sid=1

IF YOU FAVORITE THIS, I KILLZ JOO!!! I LUV JOO RYOUGA HIBIKI!
... I killz joo! (well, not literally) this is a horrible thinga
hibikiduskstar.deviantart.com/art/Scrap-Comic-75836105

In other words, "HURRY UP B4 I KILLZ JOO"
alpha-nuva.newgrounds.com/news/post/87748

Xanthe: I will killz joo! Me: ahahaa :-P
http://shadowequine.deviantart.com/art/Contest-Entry-I-Killz-Joo-74960172

STOP WRITING ABOUT THEM B4 I KILLZ JOO!
http://www.fanfiction.net/topic/35132/4287506/1/

omg teh wooter [water] killz joo! It's even in teh SH4MP00!
www.halflife2.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-48229.html

I M GOINGZ TO KILLZ JOO.
http://www.mathnews.uwaterloo.ca/Issues/mn8405/froshcorner.php

nows yous bettrz lemme join yourz Gotei squad orz i killz joo wth th1s
kn1fe mmkay? >=O
http://forums.quizilla.com/showthread.php?t=26792&page=140

(joke, joke...... make with the haha now or I killz joo >.>)
www.tricksteronline.com/forum/forums/2/112168/ShowThread.aspx

imma gunna killz joo [graphic of Japanamation charater saying
"I Wanna Kill Joo"] aren't i cyute?
http://inari-kage.deviantart.com/art/imma-gunna-killz-joo-72407244

ares rogue I stealths and killz joo lolz
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/search.html?forumId=10020&characterId=1151012140&sid=1

Yu-Gi-Oh GX. IF YOU STEAL THEM I WILL KILLZ JOO!
111s111.wordpress.com/

--
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/ >

Date: 26 Mar 2008 20:22:20
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

[email protected] wrote:

>I was *agreeing* with you, idiot. What part of it did *you* not
>understand?

My apologies.

Date: 27 Mar 2008 16:25:10
From: Maple Tree
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Bacon has had this issue before !

"Guy Macon" <http://www.guymacon.com/ > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>>I was *agreeing* with you, idiot. What part of it did *you* not
>>understand?
>
> My apologies.

Date: 25 Mar 2008 22:39:43
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On 23, 9:06 am, [email protected] wrote:

> You
> wish to force that FICS user to pick another name because
> you are offended over a very common gaming term that was
> clearly used to mean "[I] Kills you" (even you now admit
> this, and have changed your complaint to "which easily
> can be interpreted as" to reflect the obvious facts).

Someone is really "reaching" here.

First of all, the brackets to *insert* a missing
word from out of the blue. Note also the fact
that /even with the inserted word/, the sentence
is not even grammatically correct. It's pretty
sad when you give yourself free reign to play
around with the name, and *still* can't come
up with a decent English-language sentence,
so that the name seems to communicate
something sensibly.

> There are other people on this earth who would be greatly
> offended by YOUR username "Israel Silverman" that you use
> to post here (see reasons below). Just like you, they are
> pretty much alone in that opinion, and just like you, they
> base their objection on a "which easily can be interpreted
> as" argument.

This is getting really lame. Most literate
folks will understand that "Silverman" is a
surname, handed down from generations
long before the relatively recent appearance
of the state of Israel.

> You wouldn't like it if some system admin told you to change
> your username because they object, and thus the Golden Rule
> as expressed by Rabbi Hillel above requires you to not try to
> get a system admin to tell someone else to change their
> username because you are offended.

Actually, IS seemed to think that many
people would be offended-- not just him.

> The reason why some people find the username "Israel" to be
> objectionable is that they believe that no such state exists

That's a poor way of expressing it; those
folks could point on a map to where the
"rogue state" is, so they aren't actually
denying its very existence.

> and that any use of that word is objectionable to a large
> part of the Arab world, and by Palestinians in particular.
> And, of course, they also say that you are wrong about Jews
> being killed.

Again, a very odd way to phrase things.
Most of the time, the phrase "holocaust
deniers" is tossed about, but here we
see a peculiar twisting of that idea into
a supposed denial by "Arabs" that Jews
have been killed; very odd indeed; I very
seriously doubt that the Arabs deny that
Jews have been killed.

> They are, of course, idiots, but it is not the job of the
> people who run FICS to take side on that issue. It is
> their job to either accommodate both you and the Palestinians,
> or to not accommodate either of you. And the Golden Rule
> requires you as a Jew to do the same, not to ask FICS to
> accommodate you and not them. "But the stranger that dwelleth
> with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou
> shalt love him *as* *thyself*." --Leviticus 19:34

Um, these chess players don't actually
"dwell" with Mr. Silverman; they connect
*remotely* via the internet, and it is not
known if they are Jew or goyim, so stop
preaching on how they must be treated.

-----------------------------------------------------------

I understand now that there are kiddies
who deliberately misspell wurds to try and
look kute, but even taking this into acct,
Mr. Silverman's interpretation is a
complete sentence, "kill zie Jew", while
the 1 by U guyz is missing a whole wurd,
[I], and has a plural [killz] where any fool
knowz there oughtta B a singular [kill].

U guyz need 2, like, get it together.

-- help bot

Date: 29 Mar 2008 01:58:24
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On 23, 9:06 am, [email protected] wrote:
>> You wish to force that FICS user to pick another name because you
>> are offended over a very common gaming term that was clearly used
>> to mean "[I] Kills you"
>
> Someone is really "reaching" here.
>
> First of all, the brackets to *insert* a missing word from out of
> the blue. Note also the fact that /even with the inserted word/,
> the sentence is not even grammatically correct.

You are obviously not familiar with, say `All your base are belong
to us' or lolcats (`I can haz cheezburger' etc.). Grammatical
English isn't even on the radar of these internet memes.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Microsoft Tree (TM): it's like a tree
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ that's really hard to use!

Date: 25 Mar 2008 20:01:28
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On 22, 2:22 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >[email protected] wrote:
>
> >> If a free society is unacceptable to you, I believe
> >> that Iran and China still have laws against thoughtcrime...
>
> >You forgot Europe.
>
> What part of "FICS is in the USA, where thoughtcrime is
> not against the law" are you having trouble understanding?

I was *agreeing* with you, idiot. What part of it did *you* not
understand?

Date: 23 Mar 2008 14:59:59
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Quadibloc wrote:
>
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> Sorry, John, but FICS is in the USA, where thoughtcrime
>> is not against the law -- nor should it be.
>
>I don't quarrel with that. However, when people display themselves to
>be idiots, pointing that out should not be stigmatized as "whining",
>except by people who _do_ support the bigotry.

True, and if all Silverman did was that, I would not have replied.

Instead, he attacked a third party (FICS) for not forcing the
user to abandon the username that Silverman objected to.
One could argue that the user was an idiot for picking that
username (and lose the argument; it is standard gaming-speak
for "kills you"), but insisting that the FICS admins suppress
it by force is, in my opinion, whining and worse.

In a free society, the answer to Nazis (or imagined Nazis)
engaging in objectionable free speech is more free speech
refuting them, not supression. In the US, holocaust deniers
have blogs and webpages, and there are blogs and webpages
that do such a good job of refuting them that anyone doing
a Google search can see who is right. In Germany, they get
to act as if the Big Bad Government is afraid of their ideas
and has no answer to them other than supressing them by force.

Date: 23 Mar 2008 06:33:53
From: Quadibloc
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On 22, 9:14 am, [email protected] wrote:

> Sorry, John, but FICS is in the USA, where thoughtcrime
> is not against the law -- nor should it be.

I don't quarrel with that. However, when people display themselves to
be idiots, pointing that out should not be stigmatized as "whining",
except by people who _do_ support the bigotry.

John Savard

Date: 22 Mar 2008 19:22:02
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

[email protected] wrote:
>
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> If a free society is unacceptable to you, I believe
>> that Iran and China still have laws against thoughtcrime...
>
>You forgot Europe.

What part of "FICS is in the USA, where thoughtcrime is
not against the law" are you having trouble understanding?

Date: 22 Mar 2008 20:32:11
From: Israel Silverman
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> If a free society is unacceptable to you, I believe
>>> that Iran and China still have laws against thoughtcrime...
>>
>>You forgot Europe.
>
> What part of "FICS is in the USA, where thoughtcrime is
> not against the law" are you having trouble understanding?

Fascinating how you believe that that which is no illegal is therefore moral
and proper.

Just so you know in the future: FICS' decision to permit a name which easily
can be interpreted in an antisemitic way has nothing to do with what is
legal or illegal.

Date: 29 Mar 2008 13:39:53
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Help bot wrote:

>David Richerby wrote:
>
>> help bot wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> You wish to force that FICS user to pick another name because you
>>>> are offended over a very common gaming term that was clearly used
>>>> to mean "[I] Kills you"
>>>
>>> Someone is really "reaching" here.
>>>
>>> First of all, the brackets to *insert* a missing word from out of
>>> the blue. Note also the fact that /even with the inserted word/,
>>> the sentence is not even grammatically correct.
>>
>> You are obviously not familiar with, say `All your base are belong
>> to us' or lolcats (`I can haz cheezburger' etc.). Grammatical
>> English isn't even on the radar of these internet memes.
>
>The claim was that it **clearly** meant
>"I kill you", which is ridiculous unless it is
>both clear and obvious that this was the
>intended meaning. It certainly is not clear
>to me,

"clearly" is correct. It means "matches all
available evidence."

"Obvious" is subjective.

Your attempt to redefine "cear" to mean
"clear and obvious" is invalid. They are
not the same thing.

>and in fact, I was convinced at one
>point that "kill zie Jew" (there are a LOT of
>Hollywood movies which obsess over this
>WWII stuff and which have Nazi's speaking
>English, but with a strong German accent).
>
>Now I see that there are kiddies who
>deliberately muck up the English language
>even more than it already is by nature, but
>this is no more convincing than zie other
>guess

You have seen multiple examples from gaming sites
(FICS is a gaming site) of "kilsz joo" meaning
"kill you." A challenge you to find a single
example of "kils z joo" being used to mean "kills
the jew." I won't even limit you to gaming sites.
Try to find it on a Nazi or KKK site. Try and find
any usage of "Kill zie Jew" while you are at it.

I detest racism as much as the next guy. That's
why I oppose painting gamers using gamer-speak in
the normal and accepted gamer-speak way on a gaming
site as racists, based on a theoretical usage that
even the neonazis don't actually use.

Date: 28 Mar 2008 20:34:14
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On 28, 9:58 pm, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
> help bot <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 23, 9:06 am, [email protected] wrote:
> >> You wish to force that FICS user to pick another name because you
> >> are offended over a very common gaming term that was clearly used
> >> to mean "[I] Kills you"
>
> > Someone is really "reaching" here.
>
> > First of all, the brackets to *insert* a missing word from out of
> > the blue. Note also the fact that /even with the inserted word/,
> > the sentence is not even grammatically correct.
>
> You are obviously not familiar with, say `All your base are belong
> to us' or lolcats (`I can haz cheezburger' etc.). Grammatical
> English isn't even on the radar of these internet memes.

The claim was that it **clearly** meant
"I kill you", which is ridiculous unless it is
both clear and obvious that this was the
intended meaning. It certainly is not clear
to me, and in fact, I was convinced at one
point that "kill zie Jew" (there are a LOT of
Hollywood movies which obsess over this
WWII stuff and which have Nazi's speaking
English, but with a strong German accent).

Now I see that there are kiddies who
deliberately muck up the English language
even more than it already is by nature, but
this is no more convincing than zie other
guess, since if you toss out gram and
"making sense", it is possible to construct
an infinite number of monikers at random,
and then hypothesize that it means
something else.

This guy had to make several modifications
of the moniker in question just to compete:

1) he inserted a word (I) so the purported
sentence would have a "subject";

2) he allowed a plural where the singular
was obviously called for (kills);

3) and he also allowed a crazy spelling
of the word "you" so his theorized
sentence would make some kind of
sense.

I can certainly accept that this lunacy is
just as good a theory as "kill zie Jew", but
I seriously doubt it is "clear" unless and
until it is established that the person in
question is a die-hard gamer, not a neo-Nazi.
: >D

-- help bot

Date: 29 Mar 2008 11:22:12
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> David Richerby <[email protected]> wrote:
>> You are obviously not familiar with, say `All your base are belong
>> to us' or lolcats (`I can haz cheezburger' etc.). Grammatical
>> English isn't even on the radar of these internet memes.
>
> The claim was that it **clearly** meant "I kill you", which is
> ridiculous unless it is both clear and obvious that this was the
> intended meaning. It certainly is not clear to me, and in fact, I
> was convinced at one point that "kill zie Jew"

Well it might not be clear *to you*. In the same way that the
sentence `Je suis Anglais' might not be clear *to you* if you don't
speak French. People have tried, at great length, to explain it to
you, citing numerous examples, but you refuse to listen.

You're sounding like somebody who is obstinately refusing to accept
that a heavier-than-air vehicle could possibly fly, even after being
taken to several airports.

> This guy had to make several modifications of the moniker in
> question just to compete:
>
> 1) he inserted a word (I) so the purported sentence would have a
> "subject";
>
> 2) he allowed a plural where the singular was obviously called for
> (kills);

Would it help if I pointed out that, in online gaming environments,
chat usually appears somewhat as in the script of a play:

Jack: hello
Jill: How are you?

Thus, if somebody were to write `killzjoo', it would appear on screen
as

Fred: killzjoo

which is quite close to `Fred kills you'. Further, there are often
commands to cause the colon to be omitted. On IRC, you can type `/me
does such-and-such', which will typically cause the line to be
rendered as

***Alice does such-and-such

rather than

Alice: does such-and-such

So, does `***Fred killzjoo' look close enough to `Fred kills you' that
you might actually accept that you are wrong and that the many
documented cases you've been shown are genuine?

> 3) and he also allowed a crazy spelling of the word "you" so his
> theorized sentence would make some kind of sense.

Oh no! Crazy spellings! Nobody ever uses those! Nobody has ever
said `I can haz cheezburger' because it's both ungrammatical and
contains spelling mistakes! It can't possibly mean `I have a
cheeseburger'!

Dave.

--
David Richerby Generic Painting (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ Renaissance masterpiece but it's just
like all the others!

Date: 23 Mar 2008 13:06:41
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

"Israel Silverman" <[email protected] > wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> If a free society is unacceptable to you, I believe
>>>> that Iran and China still have laws against thoughtcrime...
>>>
>>>You forgot Europe.
>>
>> What part of "FICS is in the USA, where thoughtcrime is
>> not against the law" are you having trouble understanding?
>
>Fascinating how you believe that that which is no illegal
>is therefore moral and proper.
>
>Just so you know in the future: FICS' decision to permit a
>name which easily can be interpreted in an antisemitic way
>has nothing to do with what is legal or illegal.

It was a direct reply to a post about what is legal/illegal in
Europe, moron. There was no implication one way or the other
about morals. You can't just jump in after the context was
changed by someone calling for jail time for using the wrong
FICS username and act as if the response to *that* comment is
a response to your earlier comments.

Now, in direct reply to your post that *did* mention morality,
you, like many other idiots on the net, keep repeating your
arguments without responding to refutations of same. If you
once again refuse to address the following, it will be clear
to all that you are a hypocrite, and I *will* call you on it.

Here, once again, is the reason why there is nothing immoral
or improper FICS' decision to permit a name which has been
interpreted BY YOU AND PRETTY MUCH NOBODY ELSE in an antisemitic
way:

The reason involves the golden rule. The Talmud quotes Rabbi
Hillel as saying "What is hateful to yourself, do not do to
your fellow man. That is the whole Torah; the rest is just
commentary. Go and study it." You are breaking the Golden
Rule by attempting to do to another FICS user something that
you would find hateful if done to you.

You
wish to force that FICS user to pick another name because
you are offended over a very common gaming term that was
clearly used to mean "[I] Kills you" (even you now admit
this, and have changed your complaint to "which easily
can be interpreted as" to reflect the obvious facts).

There are other people on this earth who would be greatly
offended by YOUR username "Israel Silverman" that you use
to post here (see reasons below). Just like you, they are
pretty much alone in that opinion, and just like you, they
base their objection on a "which easily can be interpreted
as" argument.

You wouldn't like it if some system admin told you to change
your username because they object, and thus the Golden Rule
as expressed by Rabbi Hillel above requires you to not try to
get a system admin to tell someone else to change their
username because you are offended.

The reason why some people find the username "Israel" to be
objectionable is that they believe that no such state exists
and that any use of that word is objectionable to a large
part of the Arab world, and by Palestinians in particular.
And, of course, they also say that you are wrong about Jews
being killed.

They are, of course, idiots, but it is not the job of the
people who run FICS to take side on that issue. It is
their job to either accommodate both you and the Palestinians,
or to not accommodate either of you. And the Golden Rule
requires you as a Jew to do the same, not to ask FICS to
accommodate you and not them. "But the stranger that dwelleth
with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou
shalt love him *as* *thyself*." --Leviticus 19:34

Date: 22 Mar 2008 10:47:04
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On 22, 10:14 am, [email protected] wrote:
> If a free society is unacceptable to you, I believe
> that Iran and China still have laws against thoughtcrime...

You forgot Europe. Among other things, they have laws against "denial
of the holocaust." If you question the holocaust in any way, whether
it is in verbal speech, a written book or letter, etc. you go to
prison. So if this guy is in Europe, he can be happy staying right
where he is.

Date: 22 Mar 2008 06:13:22
From: Quadibloc
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On 19, 2:15 pm, [email protected] wrote:

> The issue isn't whether this guy is an anti-semite or not, and it
> isn't whether this guy's name means "kill the jew" or something else.
> The issue is *YOU*. Who cares what his name means? If it bothers
> you, go see a psychiatrist, and grow up. Don't you have better things
> to do with your time than look for ways to be offended? Besides, ever
> heard of free speech?

No, that's not true. There were REAL PEOPLE out there who actually DID
*kill* Jews.

So we have to make sure that this will NEVER AGAIN happen. If there
are people out there who hate Jews, they must be found, and locked up,
so that they can never hurt anyone.

Whether it's in a concentration camp - or in downtown New York office
towers.

John Savard

Date: 22 Mar 2008 15:14:42
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Quadibloc <[email protected] > wrote:
>
>
>On 19, 2:15 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> The issue isn't whether this guy is an anti-semite or not, and it
>> isn't whether this guy's name means "kill the jew" or something else.
>> The issue is *YOU*. Who cares what his name means? If it bothers
>> you, go see a psychiatrist, and grow up. Don't you have better things
>> to do with your time than look for ways to be offended? Besides, ever
>> heard of free speech?
>
>No, that's not true. There were REAL PEOPLE out there who actually DID
>*kill* Jews.
>
>So we have to make sure that this will NEVER AGAIN happen. If there
>are people out there who hate Jews, they must be found, and locked up,
>so that they can never hurt anyone.
>
>Whether it's in a concentration camp - or in downtown New York office
>towers.
>
>John Savard

Sorry, John, but FICS is in the USA, where thoughtcrime
is not against the law -- nor should it be. In a free
society, one is allowed to hate Jews, Whites, Blacks,
or even one-legged Lithuanian organ grinders without
fear of arrest. One is even allowed to publicly express
such hate. Yes, everyone will know that they are a moron,
but they won't be arrested and put into a concentration
camp. If a free society is unacceptable to you, I believe
that Iran and China still have laws against thoughtcrime...

Date: 22 Mar 2008 20:34:05
From: Israel Silverman
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Quadibloc <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>On 19, 2:15 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> The issue isn't whether this guy is an anti-semite or not, and it
>>> isn't whether this guy's name means "kill the jew" or something else.
>>> The issue is *YOU*. Who cares what his name means? If it bothers
>>> you, go see a psychiatrist, and grow up. Don't you have better things
>>> to do with your time than look for ways to be offended? Besides, ever
>>> heard of free speech?
>>
>>No, that's not true. There were REAL PEOPLE out there who actually DID
>>*kill* Jews.
>>
>>So we have to make sure that this will NEVER AGAIN happen. If there
>>are people out there who hate Jews, they must be found, and locked up,
>>so that they can never hurt anyone.
>>
>>Whether it's in a concentration camp - or in downtown New York office
>>towers.
>>
>>John Savard
>
> Sorry, John, but FICS is in the USA, where thoughtcrime
> is not against the law -- nor should it be. In a free
> society, one is allowed to hate Jews, Whites, Blacks,
> or even one-legged Lithuanian organ grinders without
> fear of arrest. One is even allowed to publicly express
> such hate. Yes, everyone will know that they are a moron,
> but they won't be arrested and put into a concentration
> camp. If a free society is unacceptable to you, I believe
> that Iran and China still have laws against thoughtcrime...

One may be allowed to hate Jews, Blacks, or Lithuanian organ grinders, but
perhaps what is legal should not be the standard to which FICS adheres,
especially for someone who knows how to read and in fact does read FICS'
abundant statements of how it wants to present a family friendly atmosphere.

Date: 06 Mar 2008 13:00:21
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On 5, 8:33=A0pm, "Israel Silverman" <[email protected] >
wrote:
> On the internet, no one knows if you're a dog.
>
> But some people care if you are Jewish. And anti-semitism is alive and wel=
l,
> in places you'd hardly expect to find it.

Maybe so many of you supporting the Jewish terrorist state of Israel
has something to do with it.

>
> I play chess on various online services. There is ICS, the internet chess
> club. There is also a free internet chess server, called FICS. FICS has
> always been a nice place to visit, play a few games. The administration
> prides itself on keeping a friendly atmosphere, free of the real world
> strife that all of us face. IT even advertises itself as a family friendly=

> place. And so, the last place you'd expect to find anti-semitism tolerated=

> is FICS. You'd be wrong.
>
> A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly realized aft=
er
> the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo." Obviously, this is a not so=

> sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew." I figured that this must have just
> passed by some tired administrator, and so I messaged the online admin, an=
d
> asked him to do something about it. He refused, and said I should email an=

> admin who deals with abuse. I did, and began a surrealistic email
> conversation, in which he insisted that there was nothing FICS was going t=
o
> do about it, because it could mean anything, and the user had not placed a=
ny
> antisemitic comments in his user profile. When I asked what other reasonab=
le
> meaning that user name could have, he suggested that I ask the user myself=
.
>
> I asked him to confirm that this was the official position of FICS, and I
> emailed others within FICS, and have not received any response. All I can
> assume is that anti-semitism there is ok, as long as it is not so baltant
> that it becomes obvions to a child under 3.

Date: 06 Mar 2008 12:46:10
From: Stephan Bird
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On Thu, 06 2008 09:36:14 -0800 in
[email protected] help bot
<[email protected] > wrote:

> As for the claims that "joo" can mean "you",
> I would like someone to explain why anyone would choose the letter "j"
> when the sound for "y" is intended. I can see "joo" for "zoo", because
> the sound matches, but it simply doesn't fit to use a "j" where "yue" is
> the intended sound. Are teenagers *that* dumb?

Jugoslavia / Yugoslavia (I think)?

Stephan
--
Stephan Bird MChem(Hons) AMRSC
[email protected]
Currently in Caernarfon, Wales.

Date: 06 Mar 2008 17:33:12
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Israel Silverman wrote:

>A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly realized after
>the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo." Obviously, this is a not so
>sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew."

Or it could be Gary Killzjoo of the UK, an online gamer who has been
around for years.

Why don't you go out and find some *real* jew haters? Lord
knows that there are enough of those slimeballs around without
you having to manufacture new ones without evidence.

Date: 06 Mar 2008 20:14:15
From: Israel Silverman
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> Israel Silverman wrote:
>
>>A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly realized
>>after
>>the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo." Obviously, this is a not so
>>sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew."
>
> Or it could be Gary Killzjoo of the UK, an online gamer who has been
> around for years.

Well, if that's so, then I truly have read everything.

> Why don't you go out and find some *real* jew haters? Lord
> knows that there are enough of those slimeballs around without
> you having to manufacture new ones without evidence.

I would hardly characterize this as "without evidence." Certainly, some
doubt has been introduced, but that hardly turns the whole thing into
"without evidence"

Date: 07 Mar 2008 11:26:00
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Israel Silverman <[email protected] > wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Israel Silverman wrote:
>>> A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly
>>> realized after the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo."
>>> Obviously, this is a not so sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew."
>>
>> Why don't you go out and find some *real* jew haters? Lord
>> knows that there are enough of those slimeballs around without
>> you having to manufacture new ones without evidence.
>
> I would hardly characterize this as "without evidence." Certainly,
> some doubt has been introduced, but that hardly turns the whole
> thing into "without evidence"

No, really, it's without evidence. It's been pointed out repeatedly
that `killzjoo' is online gamer slang for `kills you' and is
pronounced `kills you', not `kill zee jew'. What's more, you came
across this on an online gaming site.

I'm sorry you took offence. It was an understandable mistake to
make. But I really don't see any evidence at all of anti-semitism in
this particular incident.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Happy Apple (TM): it's like a tasty
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ fruit that makes your troubles melt
away!

Date: 07 Mar 2008 01:50:18
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On 6--2008, "Israel Silverman" <[email protected] > wrote:

> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> >
> > Israel Silverman wrote:
> >
> >>A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly realized
> >>after
> >>the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo." Obviously, this is a not
> >>so
> >>sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew."
> >
> > Or it could be Gary Killzjoo of the UK, an online gamer who has been
> > around for years.
>
> Well, if that's so, then I truly have read everything.
>
> > Why don't you go out and find some *real* jew haters? Lord
> > knows that there are enough of those slimeballs around without
> > you having to manufacture new ones without evidence.
>
> I would hardly characterize this as "without evidence." Certainly, some
> doubt has been introduced, but that hardly turns the whole thing into
> "without evidence"

You suspected, you asked & so far, have been reasonable
about being mistaken. What more could anyone ask?

Susan

Date: 06 Mar 2008 09:09:21
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Israel Silverman <[email protected] > wrote:
> A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly
> realized after the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo."
> Obviously, this is a not so sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew."

That seems the most likely, though it could be "kills you".

> I figured that this must have just passed by some tired
> administrator

As I recall, FICS usernames aren't passed by administrators. You can
use whatever you want but the admins reserve the right to delete
accounts with offensive names. This name has never been "approved",
as such, by FICS; just not rejected.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Generic Chair (TM): it's like a chair
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ but it's just like all the others!

Date: 06 Mar 2008 07:10:15
From: Israel Silverman
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

"David Richerby" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:rik*[email protected]...
> Israel Silverman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly
>> realized after the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo."
>> Obviously, this is a not so sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew."
>
> That seems the most likely, though it could be "kills you".

Upon further thought, I agree that there is a significant probability that
it could be "kills you." But many times out of the probability space such a
variant, if intended to mean that, would be chosen only if a more common
form was unavailable. I checked and both "Killsyou" and "killsu" were still
available.

Date: 06 Mar 2008 17:15:09
From: David Kane
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

"Israel Silverman" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "David Richerby" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:rik*[email protected]...
>> Israel Silverman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly
>>> realized after the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo."
>>> Obviously, this is a not so sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew."
>>
>> That seems the most likely, though it could be "kills you".
>
> Upon further thought, I agree that there is a significant probability that it
> could be "kills you."

I hope this means you will be offering a sincere apology to those
at FICS.

Date: 07 Mar 2008 07:22:41
From: Israel Silverman
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

"David Kane" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Israel Silverman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "David Richerby" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:rik*[email protected]...
>>> Israel Silverman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly
>>>> realized after the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo."
>>>> Obviously, this is a not so sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew."
>>>
>>> That seems the most likely, though it could be "kills you".
>>
>> Upon further thought, I agree that there is a significant probability
>> that it could be "kills you."
>
> I hope this means you will be offering a sincere apology to those
> at FICS.

No, I will not. As I said, I still think there is a strong possibility that
it means exactly what I originally thought it did,
And I believe the FICS response was deficient.

For example, if someone had created a name such as "Killzniger," just
because there is a river called the Niger does not mean that everything
becomes peachy ok, and that the burden of demonstrating badness falls on the
reader.

There are several parts to this:

1) What was the actual intention of the creater of the name?

2) What is the reasonable interpretation of the name by a reader?

3) What is the obligation of FICS, given its rather broad self-promotion as
a "family friendly" site?

For 1) we don't know.

For 2), a reasonable interpretation (kill the Jew) is as many here have
agreed with me (while many have suggested one other reasonable
interpretation - "kills you" and one has suggested an actual name "killzjoo"
of a player in England, which is not a reasonable interpretation by a FICS
user)

For 3) FICS should have done more than just checking to see if the user had
finger notes that were also anti-semitic/racist, which he did not have.
Certainly, FICS should not be transferring the responsibility to another
user to "go ask" that player what he intended. Finally, even if a user's
actual intentions as as pure as freshly fallen Vermont snow, if a reasonable
interpretation of a handle is bad, FICS should not permit it.

Date: 07 Mar 2008 13:51:18
From: yearlypap08
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

FICS ignored your concern, and you lack any power to change thei
opinion. This is what feeds your obsession

--
yearlypap08

Date: 07 Mar 2008 17:02:00
From: Israel Silverman
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Doc, I appreciate your free psychological analysis, but you're still not
getting a recommendation letter from me to psych school. You'll still have
to keep seeing your clinic patients for their medicare amounts.

"yearlypap08" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> FICS ignored your concern, and you lack any power to change their
> opinion. This is what feeds your obsession.
>
>
>
>
> --
> yearlypap08

Date: 08 Mar 2008 11:56:46
From: yearlypap08
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Israel Silverman;261568 Wrote:
> Doc, I appreciate your free psychological analysis, but you're still no
>
> getting a recommendation letter from me to psych school. You'll stil
> have
> to keep seeing your clinic patients for their medicare amounts.
>
> "yearlypap08" [email protected] wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
> FICS ignored your concern, and you lack any power to change their
> opinion. This is what feeds your obsession.
>
>
>
>
> --
> yearlypap08 -

It's logic, not psychology. You are allowing
reaction to override reason. Look at the evidence
against your claim:
Wikipedia on leetspeak:
from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L33t :
"Joo takes the place of 'you',[2] originating from
the affricate sound that occurs in place of the palatal
approximant, /j/, when you follows a word ending in
an alveolar plosive consonant, such as /d/ or /z/. "
[2] = An Explanation of 1337
(http://linuxreviews.org/dictionary/Leet/).

A search on the leetspeak version of Google demonstrates
that 'killzjoo' enjoys a pervasive presence in gaming website
conversations and player listings, as presented by others
already:
http://tinyurl.com/22wnk8
I KILLZJOO!!! OMFWTFGLAWLZ?!?! Uggh freaking BB code smileys

Mr.Silverman:
From this evidence,and evidence provided by others,
it is reasonable that an online gamer is using the
term 'killzjoo' on FICS in a boastful, not anti-semitic
manner.

It is also reasonable that the computer geeks at FICS
quickly recognized 'killzjoo' as gamer lingo. That's why
they were able to come to a quick and easy decision
against your claim.

The title of both your threads assert that Anti-Semitism
exists on FICS. This assertion is no longer a reasonable
one to make. But if you're still feeling a reaction against
their easy decision, then perhaps you should feel some
relief that the title of these threads did some damage against
their reputation, if that was your goal.

Mr.Silverman, there must be a generational or cultural gap
that divides you from the online gaming community. I can only
hope that you've gained some perspective by this process

--
yearlypap08

Date: 09 Mar 2008 02:20:08
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

yearlypap08 wrote:

>It's logic, not psychology. You are allowing
>reaction to override reason. Look at the evidence
>against your claim:
>Wikipedia on leetspeak:
>from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L33t :
>"Joo takes the place of 'you',[2] originating from
>the affricate sound that occurs in place of the palatal
>approximant, /j/, when you follows a word ending in
>an alveolar plosive consonant, such as /d/ or /z/. "
>[2] = An Explanation of 1337
>(http://linuxreviews.org/dictionary/Leet/).
>
>A search on the leetspeak version of Google demonstrates
>that 'killzjoo' enjoys a pervasive presence in gaming website
>conversations and player listings, as presented by others
>already:
>http://tinyurl.com/22wnk8
>I KILLZJOO!!! OMFWTFGLAWLZ?!?! Uggh freaking BB code smileys
>
>
>Mr.Silverman:
>From this evidence,and evidence provided by others,
>it is reasonable that an online gamer is using the
>term 'killzjoo' on FICS in a boastful, not anti-semitic
>manner.
>
>It is also reasonable that the computer geeks at FICS
>quickly recognized 'killzjoo' as gamer lingo. That's why
>they were able to come to a quick and easy decision
>against your claim.
>
>The title of both your threads assert that Anti-Semitism
>exists on FICS. This assertion is no longer a reasonable
>one to make. But if you're still feeling a reaction against
>their easy decision, then perhaps you should feel some
>relief that the title of these threads did some damage against
>their reputation, if that was your goal.

If Israel Silverman is an honorable person, he will now retract
his slander against FICS based on the overwhelming evidence
posted here in the last few days. If he doesn't retract his
slander. he is giving weight to all the bad things the anti-
semites say about Jews. The good news is that most Jews,
unlike Israel Silverman, do have honor and don't trash the
reputation of others without evidence.

Date: 09 Mar 2008 09:29:19
From: Israel Silverman
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

>>
>>It is also reasonable that the computer geeks at FICS
>>quickly recognized 'killzjoo' as gamer lingo. That's why
>>they were able to come to a quick and easy decision
>>against your claim.
>>
>>The title of both your threads assert that Anti-Semitism
>>exists on FICS. This assertion is no longer a reasonable
>>one to make. But if you're still feeling a reaction against
>>their easy decision, then perhaps you should feel some
>>relief that the title of these threads did some damage against
>>their reputation, if that was your goal.
>
> If Israel Silverman is an honorable person, he will now retract
> his slander against FICS based on the overwhelming evidence
> posted here in the last few days. If he doesn't retract his
> slander. he is giving weight to all the bad things the anti-
> semites say about Jews. The good news is that most Jews,
> unlike Israel Silverman, do have honor and don't trash the
> reputation of others without evidence.

No "computer geeks" at FICs "quickly recognized" anything of the sort.
Rather, they shifted the burden to me of proving that "killzjoo" was
intended as a slur against Jews. Several days after reading the usenet
messages here, one of them finally responded substantively.

As for your conclusion that what I am doing is "giving weight to all the bad
things the antisemites say about Jews," perhaps you should look in the
mirror and recognize yourself for what you are.

Date: 09 Mar 2008 15:01:30
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Israel Silverman wrote:

>>>It is also reasonable that the computer geeks at FICS
>>>quickly recognized 'killzjoo' as gamer lingo. That's why
>>>they were able to come to a quick and easy decision
>>>against your claim.
>>>
>>>The title of both your threads assert that Anti-Semitism
>>>exists on FICS. This assertion is no longer a reasonable
>>>one to make. But if you're still feeling a reaction against
>>>their easy decision, then perhaps you should feel some
>>>relief that the title of these threads did some damage against
>>>their reputation, if that was your goal.
>>
>> If Israel Silverman is an honorable person, he will now retract
>> his slander against FICS based on the overwhelming evidence
>> posted here in the last few days. If he doesn't retract his
>> slander. he is giving weight to all the bad things the anti-
>> semites say about Jews. The good news is that most Jews,
>> unlike Israel Silverman, do have honor and don't trash the
>> reputation of others without evidence.
>
>No "computer geeks" at FICs "quickly recognized" anything of the sort.
>Rather, they shifted the burden to me of proving that "killzjoo" was
>intended as a slur against Jews. Several days after reading the usenet
>messages here, one of them finally responded substantively.
>
>As for your conclusion that what I am doing is "giving weight to all the bad
>things the antisemites say about Jews," perhaps you should look in the
>mirror and recognize yourself for what you are.

Someone who doesn't like it when he sees a false accusation of
Anti-Semitism by someone who refuses to apologize after being
shown to be a false accuser?

You have no honor.

Date: 09 Mar 2008 16:06:07
From: Israel Silverman
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

>>As for your conclusion that what I am doing is "giving weight to all the
>>bad
>>things the antisemites say about Jews," perhaps you should look in the
>>mirror and recognize yourself for what you are.
>
> Someone who doesn't like it when he sees a false accusation of
> Anti-Semitism by someone who refuses to apologize after being
> shown to be a false accuser?
>
> You have no honor.

Chuckle. *I* have no honor? This from someone who tells me that I am proving
the truth of things that anti-semites say about Jews (I so appreciate your
heartfelt concern that I not do so), and whose name is [email protected]?

Crawl back into your rathole, Mr. me.

Date: 10 Mar 2008 14:56:31
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Israel Silverman wrote:
>
>>>perhaps you should look in the mirror and recognize yourself
>>>for what you are.
>>
>>Someone who doesn't like it when he sees a false accusation of
>>Anti-Semitism by someone who refuses to apologize after being
>>shown to be a false accuser?
>>
>>You have no honor.
>
>Chuckle. *I* have no honor? This from someone who

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

>Crawl back into your rathole, Mr. me.

Apologize to FICS for falsely accusing them, Mr. Silverman.

Whether or not you like *ME*, you should apologize to *THEM*.

They are your victims.

Refusing to apologize to them shows that you have no honor.

Date: 07 Mar 2008 16:50:31
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

David Richerby wrote:

>Israel Silverman wrote:

>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Israel Silverman wrote:
>>
>>>> A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly
>>>> realized after the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo."
>>>> Obviously, this is a not so sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew."
>>>
>>> Why don't you go out and find some *real* jew haters? Lord
>>> knows that there are enough of those slimeballs around without
>>> you having to manufacture new ones without evidence.
>>
>> I would hardly characterize this as "without evidence." Certainly,
>> some doubt has been introduced, but that hardly turns the whole
>> thing into "without evidence"
>
>No, really, it's without evidence. It's been pointed out repeatedly
>that `killzjoo' is online gamer slang for `kills you' and is
>pronounced `kills you', not `kill zee jew'. What's more, you came
>across this on an online gaming site.
>
>I'm sorry you took offence. It was an understandable mistake to
>make. But I really don't see any evidence at all of anti-semitism in
>this particular incident.

Israel Silverman wrote:
>
>"David Kane" <[email protected]> wrote...
>>
>> "Israel Silverman" wrote...
>>
>>> Upon further thought, I agree that there is a significant
>>> probability that it could be "kills you."
>>
>> I hope this means you will be offering a sincere apology to those
>> at FICS.
>
>No, I will not. As I said, I still think there is a strong
>possibility that it means exactly what I originally thought it did,
>And I believe the FICS response was deficient.
...
>FICS should have done more than just checking to see if the user had
>finger notes that were also anti-semitic/racist, which he did not have.
>Certainly, FICS should not be transferring the responsibility to another
>user to "go ask" that player what he intended. Finally, even if a user's
>actual intentions as as pure as freshly fallen Vermont snow, if a reasonable
>interpretation of a handle is bad, FICS should not permit it.

I realize that the following will fall on deaf ears, but you are
dead wrong on all counts. FICS has no obligation to police
usernames that nobody would give a second thought to, and which
are only objectionable to someone with a chip on his shoulder
searching diligently for something to be offended about.

Your own user name "Israel Silverman" is objectionable to
another group who are also diligently searching for something
to be offended about. Would you like to be told by every
online site that you must no longer use it? There are people
in this world who go around complaining about any depiction of
the Israeli flag, and trying to suppress any use of the word
"Israel" in reference to a chunk of land that they want to be
known as "Palestine." I am not saying that they are right,
but do note that they exist and are, like you easily offended.
I also note that there are websites that k the area in
question (and Tibet, Taiwan, and other areas) "disputed" rather
than taking sides. Given that such websites exist, would it be
OK with you for some easily-offended Palestinian to insist that
if a reasonable interpretation of the name "Israel Silverman"
implies the existence of a nation called Israel, you should not
be allowed to use that as your username?

David Richerby is right. You have no evidence, just speculation.
Nobody has said that they saw anything wrong with the username
Killzjoo prior to your pointing out your interpretation of it.

Someone posted dozens of examples from online gaming sites of
the phrase *in actual use* as online gamer slang for "kills
you." You not only have posted zero counterexamples, you ignored
the examples.

Don't bother replying. We already know that you are bound and
determined to take offense and that you insist that the world
accommodate you if there is a tiny chance that your preferred
interpretation is correct. You will continue to take offense
when none is meant, FICS will, along with the rest of the world,
ignore you, and one day, when you run into a clear-cut example
of anti-semitism, you will be like the boy who cried wolf.

Date: 07 Mar 2008 13:31:11
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Israel Silverman <[email protected] > wrote:
> Finally, even if a user's actual intentions as as pure as freshly
> fallen Vermont snow, if a reasonable interpretation of a handle is
> bad, FICS should not permit it.

So, to quote again my earlier example, you believe that anybody whose
name is `Dickman' should not be allowed to use their own name as a
handle on FICS. Presumably, anyone who lives in Penistone can't use
their home town, either.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Addictive Cat (TM): it's like a cat
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ but you can never put it down!

Date: 07 Mar 2008 16:59:48
From: Israel Silverman
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Since we are now dealing in absolutes, you should be aware that in many
aspects of life, people are not free to use their own names as they see fit.
Let's just go to the absolute, then.

If my name is Joseph Firestone, no, I cannot ket tires under my own name
of Firestone. And if my name is Steven Fuckyou, then no, I do not believe
that a reasonable online server that caters to families and children should
permit me to have a username matching that last name.

Similarly, if one is sensitive to racism and anti-semitism, then we will not
be seeing usernames such as HangaNiger or KillzJoo even if the author of the
first name has actually traveled the Niger river and hung a left at some
point, or the author of the second is a world-renowned afficionado of
obscure chess communications.

If a server permits such despite a lengthy self-promotion as a
family-friendly place to spend time, then perhaps its sensitivity is not as
great as one might hope.

"David Richerby" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:3Rx*[email protected]...
> Israel Silverman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Finally, even if a user's actual intentions as as pure as freshly
>> fallen Vermont snow, if a reasonable interpretation of a handle is
>> bad, FICS should not permit it.
>
> So, to quote again my earlier example, you believe that anybody whose
> name is `Dickman' should not be allowed to use their own name as a
> handle on FICS. Presumably, anyone who lives in Penistone can't use
> their home town, either.
>
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby Addictive Cat (TM): it's like a
> cat
> www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ but you can never put it down!

Date: 06 Mar 2008 18:32:53
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit

Israel Silverman wrote:

>Upon further thought, I agree that there is a significant probability that
>it could be "kills you." But many times out of the probability space such a
>variant, if intended to mean that, would be chosen only if a more common
>form was unavailable. I checked and both "Killsyou" and "killsu" were still
>available.

Neither are standard 1337Speak (Elite Speak). "killz Joo" is.

References:

1337Speak- The Guide
http://the.mysterious.alex.googlepages.com/

An Explanation of l33t Speak
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A787917

Wikipedia: L33t
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L33t

Game Geek�s Goss: Linguistic Creativity In Young
Males Within An Online University Forum"
http://www.swinburne.edu.au/sbs/ajets/journal/V3N2/pdf/V3N2-2-Blashki.pdf

Is There A Translator in Teh House?": Cultural and Discourse Analysis
of a Virtual Speech Community on an Internet Message Board
http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-04072005-145922/unrestricted/LeBlanc_thesis.pdf

relax we understand j00
http://www.case.edu/orgs/sigmataudelta/submissions/rome-relaxweunderstand.htm

Date: 06 Mar 2008 13:14:22
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Israel Silverman <[email protected] > wrote:
> "David Richerby" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> That seems the most likely, though it could be "kills you".
>
> Upon further thought, I agree that there is a significant
> probability that it could be "kills you." But many times out of the
> probability space such a variant, if intended to mean that, would be
> chosen only if a more common form was unavailable.

Not at all. It's fashionable among many people on the internet to use
these alternative spellings in everyday speech. All the time, you see
people typing things like `wot is ur name' when there's nothing at
all, apart from personal preference, that prevents them typing the
more common `What is your name?' Such a person would be very likely
to choose a username that reflected their spelling preferences.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Indelible Gnome (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ smiling garden ornament but it can't
be erased!

Date: 05 Mar 2008 22:39:14
From: ElParedon
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

"Israel Silverman" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On the internet, no one knows if you're a dog.
>
> But some people care if you are Jewish. And anti-semitism is alive and
> well, in places you'd hardly expect to find it.

PROVE TO ME THAT JEWS ARE SEMITES, HEEB!
Otherwise shut your fucking trap!

Date: 05 Mar 2008 19:53:42
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On 5, 7:39 pm, "ElParedon" <[email protected] > wrote:
> [hateful junk]

I have reported coward EIParedon's post as abusive.

Wlod

Date: 05 Mar 2008 18:30:16
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On 5, 8:33 pm, "Israel Silverman" <[email protected] >
wrote:

> A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly realized after
> the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo." Obviously, this is a not so
> sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew."

Hey, some people are just sharper than others
with these things. Me, I found it, shall we say
very helpful that you pointed out the translation.

Look at this one: killjoy; now, if a spelling-
challenged idiot like certain posters here in
rgc were to attempt this, it /could/ come out
as killjot, or killhoy, or something like that. But
I cannot think of anything offhand that would
explain the "killzjoo" spelling, apart from your
reasonable explanation.

I still recall a fellow from waaaay back when,
who had a handle (or moniker) of "tooeasy";
when I very easily defeated him, I tried to
make a joke but he apparently took offense
for the next thing I know, I am getting dashed
against the rocks by his Fritz or Chessmaster
program. This of course, was against their
policy, yet nobody did anything about it; I say
he asked for it by selecting such a name, and
by playing to match it.

Other problems with admins on these Web
sites frequently arise. I knew one fellow who
volunteered to serve as an admin in order to
get a free membership. He told me that they
pretty much did whatever they pleased, toying
with people in various ways -- even during
play. On one site, the admins bragged they
could reliably detect computer use, yet they
had never caught any of the players I knew,
and whom I watched do this countless times.

In sum, the above story is not surprising. But
I would not leap to the conclusion that the
admins are all "anti-semitic"; the fact is, they
are not so very bright as you might expect. I
bet I could go there right now and beat up on
one using Fritz... .

-- help bot

Date: 06 Mar 2008 11:43:47
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On 6, 1:46 pm, Stephan Bird <[email protected] >
wrote:

> > As for the claims that "joo" can mean "you",
> > I would like someone to explain why anyone would choose the letter "j"
> > when the sound for "y" is intended. I can see "joo" for "zoo", because
> > the sound matches, but it simply doesn't fit to use a "j" where "yue" is
> > the intended sound. Are teenagers *that* dumb?
>
> Jugoslavia / Yugoslavia (I think)?

Ahhh, it all makes sense now. Ever since "we",
that is, the USA invaded and conquered that
country, Yugoslavians have been forced to speak
English! Even their chess openings are not safe;
we Americans now play the Slav, simply because
we are tired of losing to the Nimzo Indians and
other tribes (Commanche, Apache, Hungarian,
etc.)

But... ve vill not tolerate zheir so-called cars,
zie "Yugo" piece of scrap heap! Bring us more
Japanese: Toyota! Honda! Hey, the latest
edition of Consumer Reports magazine has an
advertisement in which a local car dealer asks:
are you gonna buy American, or do you want to
support those commies by buying Japanese?
(So, while we were busy taking control of Yugo-
slavia, we apparently let the commies infiltrate
and take over Japan... .) : >D

-- help bot

Date: 06 Mar 2008 09:36:14
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On 6, 6:52 am, "Israel Silverman" <[email protected] >
wrote:

> Also, I doubt if another race were stuck in there, it would have been as
> acceptable.

Why is it that Jews are considered a /race/ by
those who complain of anti-semitism? Have the
Jews not traveled extensively, spreading out
among other cultures and interrying? Does
it make sense to consider such peoples as
though they were a pure "race", like say the
Aussie aborigines?

I tend to think of Jews as "those who believe
in and practice Judaism"; in other words, the
fact that they may be of mixed decent is quite
irrelevant. Perhaps this discrepancy explains
why there is so much confusion surrounding
chess players, like say, Bobby Fischer. The
people who are fixated on race will proclaim
him to be a Jew, while I see such claims as
very questionable attempts to snatch the
credit for what was achieved by a man who,
immediately after winning the world title,
joined the Worldwide Church of God -- which
is certainly not a Jewish sect of any sort.

As for the claims that "joo" can mean "you",
I would like someone to explain why anyone
would choose the letter "j" when the sound
for "y" is intended. I can see "joo" for "zoo",
because the sound matches, but it simply
doesn't fit to use a "j" where "yue" is the
intended sound. Are teenagers *that* dumb?

-- help bot

Date: 06 Mar 2008 20:10:22
From: Israel Silverman
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

>
> As for the claims that "joo" can mean "you",
> I would like someone to explain why anyone
> would choose the letter "j" when the sound
> for "y" is intended. I can see "joo" for "zoo",
> because the sound matches, but it simply
> doesn't fit to use a "j" where "yue" is the
> intended sound. Are teenagers *that* dumb?

I have heard "joo" used in oral conversation years ago to mean "you."

I still think it's unlikely in this context.

Date: 07 Mar 2008 03:26:57
From: Bill Plenge
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Israel Silverman wrote:
>> As for the claims that "joo" can mean "you",
>> I would like someone to explain why anyone
>> would choose the letter "j" when the sound
>> for "y" is intended. I can see "joo" for "zoo",
>> because the sound matches, but it simply
>> doesn't fit to use a "j" where "yue" is the
>> intended sound. Are teenagers *that* dumb?
>
> I have heard "joo" used in oral conversation years ago to mean "you."
>
> I still think it's unlikely in this context.

I remember growing up in Northern Jersey the local accent would frequently
prounce "you" as "joo" most noticible after "did" such as "Did you wash the
car?" would sound like "Didjoo wash the car?" I recall one of the nuns at
school correcting us and adding, "leave the jews alone, they aren't hurting
anyone."

Curiously enough as I was typing this a movie ad came on where a guy
comments on Mexican Judo, explaining it as, "Judo-n't know who you're
messing with."

To check to see if there was some chat-speak definition I was unaware off, I
did a search on "joo definition" and the only relevant responses where
similar to the one below:

Joo
1. [n] Last name, frequency rank in the U.S. is 22933.

Though some elaborated slightly, adding phrases such as "very rare" or
giving examples of people named Joo.

I suppose it is possible that it is an attempt simulate an accent in
writing, but I personally would agree that it is unlikely in this context.
I've been wrong before -- frequently.

Best,
Bill

Date: 06 Mar 2008 21:02:23
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> As for the claims that "joo" can mean "you", I would like someone to
> explain why anyone would choose the letter "j" when the sound for
> "y" is intended.

In most Germanic languages, the letter J is pronounced like the Y in
`you'.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Perforated Tongs (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ pair of tongs but it's full of holes!

Date: 05 Mar 2008 19:46:10
From:
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

On 5, 10:34=A0pm, "Israel Silverman" <[email protected] >
wrote:
> I am not saying tht all the admins there are anti-semitic. I'm sure that's=

> not so. However, if the powers-that-be choose not to prohibit such a handl=
e,
> well, that begins to speak for itself.
>
> "help bot" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:fd178fa6-ecac-458b-8e47-6f3b83eec158@x30g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On 5, 8:33 pm, "Israel Silverman" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> >> A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly realized
> >> after
> >> the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo." Obviously, this is a not=

> >> so
> >> sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew."
>
> > =A0Hey, some people are just sharper than others
> > with these things. =A0Me, I found it, shall we say
> > very helpful that you pointed out the translation.
>
> > =A0Look at this one: killjoy; now, if a spelling-
> > challenged idiot like certain posters here in
> > rgc were to attempt this, it /could/ come out
> > as killjot, or killhoy, or something like that. =A0But
> > I cannot think of anything offhand that would
> > explain the "killzjoo" spelling, apart from your
> > reasonable explanation.
>
> > =A0I still recall a fellow from waaaay back when,
> > who had a handle (or moniker) of "tooeasy";
> > when I very easily defeated him, I tried to
> > make a joke but he apparently took offense
> > for the next thing I know, I am getting dashed
> > against the rocks by his Fritz or Chessmaster
> > program. =A0This of course, was against their
> > policy, yet nobody did anything about it; I say
> > he asked for it by selecting such a name, and
> > by playing to match it.
>
> > =A0Other problems with admins on these Web
> > sites frequently arise. =A0I knew one fellow who
> > volunteered to serve as an admin in order to
> > get a free membership. =A0He told me that they
> > pretty much did whatever they pleased, toying
> > with people in various ways -- even during
> > play. =A0On one site, the admins bragged they
> > could reliably detect computer use, yet they
> > had never caught any of the players I knew,
> > and whom I watched do this countless times.
>
> > =A0In sum, the above story is not surprising. =A0But
> > I would not leap to the conclusion that the
> > admins are all "anti-semitic"; the fact is, they
> > are not so very bright as you might expect. =A0I
> > bet I could go there right now and beat up on
> > one using Fritz... .
>
> > =A0-- help bot- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Perhaps I am just old and tired. I read the intent of the nick
exactly as you do, Israel. But my sense is that someone who plays
games with such a moniker is most likely a confused and mischievous
teenager. You can try to police that kind of misbehavior if you want;
surely I can sympathize with your sensitivity. But it seems to me a
dissipation of energy. It is not necessary to bully and intimidate
and scold every vestige of anti-Semitism. Much of it goes away
naturally, over time, as people gain wisdom though hard experience.
It isn't a perfect world and the Internet, a medium which is allergic
to accountability, is more unperfect than the norm.

Date: 06 Mar 2008 06:52:34
From: Israel Silverman
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:2a1c7f0a-5fd3-469a-9b58-d5f19e042174@e31g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On 5, 10:34 pm, "Israel Silverman" <[email protected] >
wrote:
> I am not saying tht all the admins there are anti-semitic. I'm sure that's
> not so. However, if the powers-that-be choose not to prohibit such a
> handle,
> well, that begins to speak for itself.
>
> "help bot" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:fd178fa6-ecac-458b-8e47-6f3b83eec158@x30g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On 5, 8:33 pm, "Israel Silverman" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> >> A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly realized
> >> after
> >> the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo." Obviously, this is a not
> >> so
> >> sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew."
>
> > Hey, some people are just sharper than others
> > with these things. Me, I found it, shall we say
> > very helpful that you pointed out the translation.
>
> > Look at this one: killjoy; now, if a spelling-
> > challenged idiot like certain posters here in
> > rgc were to attempt this, it /could/ come out
> > as killjot, or killhoy, or something like that. But
> > I cannot think of anything offhand that would
> > explain the "killzjoo" spelling, apart from your
> > reasonable explanation.
>
> > I still recall a fellow from waaaay back when,
> > who had a handle (or moniker) of "tooeasy";
> > when I very easily defeated him, I tried to
> > make a joke but he apparently took offense
> > for the next thing I know, I am getting dashed
> > against the rocks by his Fritz or Chessmaster
> > program. This of course, was against their
> > policy, yet nobody did anything about it; I say
> > he asked for it by selecting such a name, and
> > by playing to match it.
>
> > Other problems with admins on these Web
> > sites frequently arise. I knew one fellow who
> > volunteered to serve as an admin in order to
> > get a free membership. He told me that they
> > pretty much did whatever they pleased, toying
> > with people in various ways -- even during
> > play. On one site, the admins bragged they
> > could reliably detect computer use, yet they
> > had never caught any of the players I knew,
> > and whom I watched do this countless times.
>
> > In sum, the above story is not surprising. But
> > I would not leap to the conclusion that the
> > admins are all "anti-semitic"; the fact is, they
> > are not so very bright as you might expect. I
> > bet I could go there right now and beat up on
> > one using Fritz... .
>
> > -- help bot- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Perhaps I am just old and tired. I read the intent of the nick
exactly as you do, Israel. But my sense is that someone who plays
games with such a moniker is most likely a confused and mischievous
teenager. You can try to police that kind of misbehavior if you want;
surely I can sympathize with your sensitivity. But it seems to me a
dissipation of energy. It is not necessary to bully and intimidate
and scold every vestige of anti-Semitism. Much of it goes away
naturally, over time, as people gain wisdom though hard experience.
It isn't a perfect world and the Internet, a medium which is allergic
to accountability, is more unperfect than the norm.
------------
I understand your point about not being overly sensitive. But when an
example is fairly clear, as this is, it is important to squelch it not so
much because of the intent of the person doing it, but from the perspective
of people seeing it and thinking that it's ok.

Also, I doubt if another race were stuck in there, it would have been as
acceptable.

Date: 06 Mar 2008 13:04:38
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

Israel Silverman <[email protected] > wrote:
> I understand your point about not being overly sensitive. But when
> an example is fairly clear, as this is

I don't think it's as clear as you think it is. From what you've
posted so far, it could be either way.

> Also, I doubt if another race were stuck in there, it would have
> been as acceptable.

No. If it is anti-semitism, it is absolutely unacceptable. The
question is whether there is actually any anti-semitic intent. To
take a different example, you might imagine that `dickman' would be an
inappropriate name on a server that children use; but it is a not
uncommon English surname and it would be unfortunate to ban somebody
using the name he or she was born with.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Pickled Flammable Painting (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a Renaissance masterpiece
but it burns really easily and it's
preserved in vinegar!

Date: 07 Mar 2008 03:15:28
From: yearlypap08
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

David Richerby;261389 Wrote:
> Israel Silverman [email protected] wrote:-
> I understand your point about not being overly sensitive. But when
> an example is fairly clear, as this is-
>
> I don't think it's as clear as you think it is. From what you've
> posted so far, it could be either way.
> [color=blue][i]
>

This Hungarian Joo is a good attacker:
http://www.fide.com/ratings/card.phtml?event=71723

--
yearlypap08

Date: 05 Mar 2008 22:34:58
From: Israel Silverman
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on FICS (Free Internet Chess Server)

I am not saying tht all the admins there are anti-semitic. I'm sure that's
not so. However, if the powers-that-be choose not to prohibit such a handle,
well, that begins to speak for itself.

"help bot" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:fd178fa6-ecac-458b-8e47-6f3b83eec158@x30g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On 5, 8:33 pm, "Israel Silverman" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>> A day ago, I played a game with a fellow who, I astonishingly realized
>> after
>> the game began, had a user name of "killzjoo." Obviously, this is a not
>> so
>> sneaky way of saying "Kill the Jew."
>
>
> Hey, some people are just sharper than others
> with these things. Me, I found it, shall we say
> very helpful that you pointed out the translation.
>
> Look at this one: killjoy; now, if a spelling-
> challenged idiot like certain posters here in
> rgc were to attempt this, it /could/ come out
> as killjot, or killhoy, or something like that. But
> I cannot think of anything offhand that would
> explain the "killzjoo" spelling, apart from your
> reasonable explanation.
>
> I still recall a fellow from waaaay back when,
> who had a handle (or moniker) of "tooeasy";
> when I very easily defeated him, I tried to
> make a joke but he apparently took offense
> for the next thing I know, I am getting dashed
> against the rocks by his Fritz or Chessmaster
> program. This of course, was against their
> policy, yet nobody did anything about it; I say
> he asked for it by selecting such a name, and
> by playing to match it.
>
> Other problems with admins on these Web
> sites frequently arise. I knew one fellow who
> volunteered to serve as an admin in order to
> get a free membership. He told me that they
> pretty much did whatever they pleased, toying
> with people in various ways -- even during
> play. On one site, the admins bragged they
> could reliably detect computer use, yet they
> had never caught any of the players I knew,
> and whom I watched do this countless times.
>
> In sum, the above story is not surprising. But
> I would not leap to the conclusion that the
> admins are all "anti-semitic"; the fact is, they
> are not so very bright as you might expect. I
> bet I could go there right now and beat up on
> one using Fritz... .
>
>
> -- help bot
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>