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Main
Date: 25 Aug 2008 00:57:05
From: Sanny
Subject: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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Yesterday 2 new bugs came that hang the game. Now those bugs have been
removed.
So Players having trouble playing with GetClub let me know it. I will
reset their games.
As that bug was stopping the program to play its move. Now if you are
waiting for a move by GetClub. I suggest you close your computer and
restart the game So that it plays correctly.
Still if you are facing any problem let me know.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 27 Aug 2008 22:00:59
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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> [Date "2008.08.27"]
> [White "Glaurung 2.1, 60 moves in 5 minutes"]
> [Black "GetClubbeginner level"]
> [Result "1-0"]
>
> 1. d4 f5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bg5 h6 4. Bxf6 exf6 5. e4 fxe4 6. Qh5+ Ke7 7. Nd5+
> Kd6 8. c4 Na6 9. c5+ Kc6 10. Nc3 Bxc5 11. Qd5+ Kb6 12. dxc5+
> {Black resigns} 1-0
Great game. How much time Glaurung was taking per move?
Average 5 sec / move While Beginner is thinking 15 sec / move.
Glaurung is 50 times stronger than GetClub. So it was a hard match.
Was Glaurung running on Dual Core/ Quad Core? and was it thinking in
opponents time?
GetClub is only good for Human Players not for other Chess Programs.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 27 Aug 2008 21:57:51
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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> > Yes correct. Now I have removed such things So that it do not give its
> > pawns for getting 2 double pawns.
>
> You have removed? Since when are you the programmer?
>
I take the descision and the things were removed by others.
Bye
Sanny
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Date: 27 Aug 2008 23:08:20
From: Simon Krahnke
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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* Peter Osterlund <[email protected] > (22:49) schrieb:
> Sanny <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> I suggest you play with Normal Level as the game will play much
>> stronger now. Since a few things were corrected.
>
> Those corrections apparently didn't do anything good for the beginner
> level. Here is a game I just played using glaurung:
>
> [Date "2008.08.27"]
> [White "Glaurung 2.1, 60 moves in 5 minutes"]
> [Black "GetClub beginner level"]
> [Result "1-0"]
>
> 1. d4 f5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bg5 h6 4. Bxf6 exf6 5. e4 fxe4 6. Qh5+ Ke7 7. Nd5+
> Kd6 8. c4 Na6 9. c5+ Kc6 10. Nc3 Bxc5 11. Qd5+ Kb6 12. dxc5+
> {Black resigns} 1-0
Getclub is only for humans!
mfg, simon .... l
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Date: 27 Aug 2008 13:14:14
From: Simon Krahnke
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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* Sanny <[email protected] > (08:58) schrieb:
> Yes correct. Now I have removed such things So that it do not give its
> pawns for getting 2 double pawns.
You have removed? Since when are you the programmer?
mfg, simon .... about
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Date: 27 Aug 2008 00:34:59
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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On Aug 27, 12:22=A0pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> Sanny wrote:
> > If you want I will reset your game so that you can start a new game
> > with strong opponent. With the new improvement Normal will be very
> > tough to beat. Just restart your computer or ask me to reset your game
> > So that you can start a strong game against Normal Level.
>
> > Never play with Master Level.
>
> =A0 Okay, go ahead and restart my game.
> I keep getting fooled, over and over, by
> the ridiculous claim on the Web site
> that it will move in a reasonable time.
> Then reality sets in, first move out of
> book. =A0The Master level is just too slow
> for humans; maybe gods, with their
> infinite lifespans can play it?
>
> =A0 -- help bot
Your game was reset. Now you can start a new game.
I suggest you play with Normal Level as the game will play much
stronger now. Since a few things were corrected.
Restart your Browser and play a new game.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 27 Aug 2008 20:49:01
From: Peter Osterlund
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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Sanny <[email protected] > writes:
> I suggest you play with Normal Level as the game will play much
> stronger now. Since a few things were corrected.
Those corrections apparently didn't do anything good for the beginner
level. Here is a game I just played using glaurung:
[Date "2008.08.27"]
[White "Glaurung 2.1, 60 moves in 5 minutes"]
[Black "GetClub beginner level"]
[Result "1-0"]
1. d4 f5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bg5 h6 4. Bxf6 exf6 5. e4 fxe4 6. Qh5+ Ke7 7. Nd5+
Kd6 8. c4 Na6 9. c5+ Kc6 10. Nc3 Bxc5 11. Qd5+ Kb6 12. dxc5+
{Black resigns} 1-0
--
Peter Osterlund - [email protected]
http://web.telia.com/~u89404340
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Date: 27 Aug 2008 22:03:35
From: Tony M
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:49:01 GMT, Peter Osterlund <[email protected] >
wrote:
>Sanny <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> I suggest you play with Normal Level as the game will play much
>> stronger now. Since a few things were corrected.
>
>Those corrections apparently didn't do anything good for the beginner
>level. Here is a game I just played using glaurung:
>
>[Date "2008.08.27"]
>[White "Glaurung 2.1, 60 moves in 5 minutes"]
>[Black "GetClub beginner level"]
>[Result "1-0"]
>
>1. d4 f5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bg5 h6 4. Bxf6 exf6 5. e4 fxe4 6. Qh5+ Ke7 7. Nd5+
>Kd6 8. c4 Na6 9. c5+ Kc6 10. Nc3 Bxc5 11. Qd5+ Kb6 12. dxc5+
>{Black resigns} 1-0
Glaurung is just a tad out of Sanny's league, no?
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Date: 28 Aug 2008 04:57:05
From: Peter Osterlund
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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Tony M <[email protected] > writes:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:49:01 GMT, Peter Osterlund <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Sanny <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>> I suggest you play with Normal Level as the game will play much
>>> stronger now. Since a few things were corrected.
>>
>>Those corrections apparently didn't do anything good for the beginner
>>level. Here is a game I just played using glaurung:
>>
>>[Date "2008.08.27"]
>>[White "Glaurung 2.1, 60 moves in 5 minutes"]
>>[Black "GetClub beginner level"]
>>[Result "1-0"]
>>
>>1. d4 f5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bg5 h6 4. Bxf6 exf6 5. e4 fxe4 6. Qh5+ Ke7 7. Nd5+
>>Kd6 8. c4 Na6 9. c5+ Kc6 10. Nc3 Bxc5 11. Qd5+ Kb6 12. dxc5+
>>{Black resigns} 1-0
>
> Glaurung is just a tad out of Sanny's league, no?
Yes, I know, but even a weak program ought to be able to see that
3... h6 and 5... fxe4 are really bad for king safety. Especially if
the program is claimed to have a "2200+" rating.
I have no problem with someone writing a weak chess engine. For normal
game play, that is actually more useful for normal players than an
extremely strong chess engine that beats you every time. For example,
one of my favourite chess programs (for playing with, not for doing
analyzes with obviously) is "3D Chess", because it has a nice OpenGL
interface and it plays at approximately my own level at blitz time
controls.
http://www.steviedisco.co.uk/
The problem with Sanny's program is that it is weak but it is being
advertised as being very strong, eg "2200+ rating", "plays the same
moves as Rybka if given 10x the thinking time". But in reality the
program loses against my 1650 rated 20 year old chess computer, it
scores very low on the WAC test suite, it misses simple tactics that
should be obvious to a computer, and so on.
--
Peter Osterlund - [email protected]
http://web.telia.com/~u89404340
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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Date: 27 Aug 2008 00:22:50
From: help bot
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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Sanny wrote:
> If you want I will reset your game so that you can start a new game
> with strong opponent. With the new improvement Normal will be very
> tough to beat. Just restart your computer or ask me to reset your game
> So that you can start a strong game against Normal Level.
>
> Never play with Master Level.
Okay, go ahead and restart my game.
I keep getting fooled, over and over, by
the ridiculous claim on the Web site
that it will move in a reasonable time.
Then reality sets in, first move out of
book. The Master level is just too slow
for humans; maybe gods, with their
infinite lifespans can play it?
-- help bot
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Date: 26 Aug 2008 23:58:14
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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> > 13 .... 0-0 =A0Gave away a pawn. Should have played g6
>
> > What do you think?
>
> =A0 I think you are mucking things up with your
> attempts to "weigh" the doubled pawns and
> the bad pawn formations.
Yes correct. Now I have removed such things So that it do not give its
pawns for getting 2 double pawns.
> =A0 Now, suppose you just focused on getting
> the tactics right, and left this positional
> stuff for breaking ties, where two or more
> moves came out tactically equal? =A0I expect
> the program would gain *dramatically* in
> strength. =A0Any flaws, such as you describe
> above, would be reduced in their impact.
Now, Tactics have been improved too.
Stop the game you are playing with Master Level and restart it and see
the difference. There were a few bugs which were removed. Now GetClub
plays very decent moves.
If you want I will reset your game so that you can start a new game
with strong opponent. With the new improvement Normal will be very
tough to beat. Just restart your computer or ask me to reset your game
So that you can start a strong game against Normal Level.
Never play with Master Level.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 26 Aug 2008 22:20:20
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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> =A0Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
> > With new modifications new bugs always come in
>
> So every time you announce that ShitClubChesshas improved by two
> times, it really means "more bugs"?
>
> You're the Ray Gordon of software development.
Not always but sometimes it happens. Asnew improvement is done by
changing the stable code and the new code brings new problems with it.
Bye
Sanny
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Date: 27 Aug 2008 01:06:04
From: Frisco Del Rosario
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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In article
<5b372c1a-0fba-4eb4-a579-8c6320d59da3@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com >,
Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > �Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > With new modifications new bugs always come in
> Not always but sometimes it happens.
Why would anyone want to hire you to engineer a software project. First
you say always, then you say sometimes.
You don't test your software adequately. It sucks.
You don't test your statements before making them. You suck.
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Date: 26 Aug 2008 02:53:30
From: help bot
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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Sanny wrote:
> > http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM25366&game=Chess
> >
> > The program made some fairly simple
> > tactical errors, but you can also see how
> > it left its King in the center too long, and
> > how it struggled to maintain its Knight
> > on e4 (impossible against a player of
> > my caliber).
>
> 1. e2-e4{6} e7-e5{0}
> 2. Ng1-f3{4} Ng8-f6{0}
> 3. Nf3-e5{8} d7-d6{0}
> 4. Ne5-f3{12} Nf6-e4{100}
> 5. d2-d4{40} Bc8-e6{418}
> 6. Bf1-d3{82} d6-d5{84}
> 7. Ke1-g1{44} Bf8-d6{110}
> 8. c2-c4{52} Be6-g4{520}
>
> I think the Biggest mistake was 8.... Bg4. It should have played 0-0.
> As many variations are available after playing 8.... 0-0.
>
>
> 9. c4-d5{60} f7-f5{244}
> 10. Nb1-c3{66} Ne4-c3{186}
> 11. b2-c3{104} b7-b6{632}
> 12. h2-h3{102} Bg4-f3{92}
> 13. Qd1-f3{46} 0-0 {178}
>
> This Chastling was a wrong move. It should have saved its pawn by
> playing 13....g6.
>
>
> 8...... Bg4 Gave away a Pawn Should have played 0-0
> It played Bg4 as it game -0.5 penalty for White for its double Pawns
> and another 0.5 for bad pawn formations.
>
> 13 .... 0-0 Gave away a pawn. Should have played g6
>
> What do you think?
I think you are mucking things up with your
attempts to "weigh" the doubled pawns and
the bad pawn formations.
First of all, a doubled pawn is not always
so bad as to warrant counting it as a mere
half-pawn. In this game, my doubled pawn
at d5 is a center pawn, which restricts the
opponent by controlling key squares.
Second, although it is true I had three
"pawn islands", in return for this my center
-- including the weak doubled pawn -- was
strengthened. More to the point, because
of the fact that both Kings are subject to
rapid-fire assault (as you saw in the game),
exploiting the weakness of multiple pawn
islands is problematic here.
Now, suppose you just focused on getting
the tactics right, and left this positional
stuff for breaking ties, where two or more
moves came out tactically equal? I expect
the program would gain *dramatically* in
strength. Any flaws, such as you describe
above, would be reduced in their impact.
In the opening, development is paramount.
I would even go so far as to assert that the
program could play positionally-bad moves
and yet still achieve decent results, if it got
the tactics right. This is because humans
are very poor at tactics, compared to
computers, and tactics are far more
critical to the outcome of most games than
what you are trying to do with regard to the
weighing of subtle positional weaknesses.
By the way, I am playing it again and I
just overlooked a Knight fork! This has
cost me the exchange, but I have the King
more-or-less trapped in the center.
-- help bot
-- help bot
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Date: 26 Aug 2008 02:03:15
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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> http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM25366&game=3DChess
>
> =A0 The program made some fairly simple
> tactical errors, but you can also see how
> it left its King in the center too long, and
> how it struggled to maintain its Knight
> on e4 (impossible against a player of
> my caliber).
1. e2-e4{6} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{4} Ng8-f6{0}
3. Nf3-e5{8} d7-d6{0}
4. Ne5-f3{12} Nf6-e4{100}
5. d2-d4{40} Bc8-e6{418}
6. Bf1-d3{82} d6-d5{84}
7. Ke1-g1{44} Bf8-d6{110}
8. c2-c4{52} Be6-g4{520}
I think the Biggest mistake was 8.... Bg4. It should have played 0-0.
As many variations are available after playing 8.... 0-0.
9. c4-d5{60} f7-f5{244}
10. Nb1-c3{66} Ne4-c3{186}
11. b2-c3{104} b7-b6{632}
12. h2-h3{102} Bg4-f3{92}
13. Qd1-f3{46} 0-0 {178}
This Chastling was a wrong move. It should have saved its pawn by
playing 13....g6.
8...... Bg4 Gave away a Pawn Should have played 0-0
It played Bg4 as it game -0.5 penalty for White for its double Pawns
and another 0.5 for bad pawn formations.
13 .... 0-0 Gave away a pawn. Should have played g6
What do you think?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 26 Aug 2008 00:56:34
From: help bot
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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Sanny wrote:
> Play your game and let me know you are able to play it correctly. If
> not I will reset your game.
>
> Today I played with Black pieces It worked correctly.
>
> If any problem let me know it.
It seems to be working now. I started a
game as White and beat the Normal level
like carrots:
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM25366&game=Chess
The program made some fairly simple
tactical errors, but you can also see how
it left its King in the center too long, and
how it struggled to maintain its Knight
on e4 (impossible against a player of
my caliber).
On the other hand, it did play actively
in a sense, and it did at least try to get
its pieces to very active positions, and
that could have led to a quick win if it
had been playing another duffer like
itself.
I am not at all familiar with the theory
in this opening, but the idea of ...Nxe4
followed by ...f5 seems ludicrous. as
the a2--g8 diagonal can become a busy
avenue of attack for White.
-- help bot
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Date: 28 Aug 2008 08:02:58
From: Sanny
Subject: Glad to see "Martin Brown"
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Were you out of town. Today morning I was thinking about you. I Played
a game between Jester & Beginner where Beginner lost in just 23 moves.
The Problem is I could not find any mistake in the game.
And I was thinking where is "Martin Brown" who used to provide his
detailed analysis. Only you can spot mistakes in the game. As you have
good tools for analysis.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.analysis/browse_frm/thread/ed6f810674163be2/a398365ad2d5a2b6?lnk=st&q=GetClub+Chess#a398365ad2d5a2b6
Above link I posted the Game please give your suggestions on that
game.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 28 Aug 2008 15:17:12
From: Simon Krahnke
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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* Sanny <[email protected] > (09:23) schrieb:
> Today recvently the game was improved. Not it will play much stronger.
Strange grammar but probably true.
mfg, simon .... l
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Date: 28 Aug 2008 00:23:32
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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> The problem with Sanny's program is that it is weak but it is being
> advertised as being very strong, eg "2200+ rating", "plays the same
> moves as Rybka if given 10x the thinking time". But in reality the
> program loses against my 1650 rated 20 year oldchesscomputer, it
> scores very low on the WAC test suite, it misses simple tactics that
> should be obvious to a computer, and so on.
>
Today recvently the game was improved. Not it will play much stronger.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 22:54:31
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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> =A0 I noticed that the program jumped to the
> game's starting position and started in with
> its "thinking", but then it would not move--
> ever. =A0On my second try, I noticed that it
> very rapidly cycled past the screen where
> I would have been able to choose an odds
> game. =A0It went to the normal starting
> position and began "thinking", but where it
> normally displays the opponent's last move,
> or some silly random move on its first turn
> as White, it had a dash or hyphen,
> indicating that it was not functioning
> "normally" (which is to say, in its usual,
Play your game and let me know you are able to play it correctly. If
not I will reset your game.
Today I played with Black pieces It worked correctly.
If any problem let me know it.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 22:52:19
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
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> It doesn't want to play white anymore.
> The clock starts running but it never makes its move, no matter how
> long I wait.
> It doesn't show what move it is thinking about, it doesn't show any
> score. It just sits there.
> Restarting my PC didn't help either.
> It still plays black, though.- Hide quoted text -
Yes, the problem was corrected. Now, you canm play with both White and
Black pieces.
With new modifications new bugs always come in but modifications are
needed if the game has to be improved.
Play with Beginner Level and tell me how you feel about the new
improvements.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 26 Aug 2008 06:03:16
From: Frisco Del Rosario
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
|
In article
<[email protected] >,
Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> With new modifications new bugs always come in
So every time you announce that ShitClub Chess has improved by two
times, it really means "more bugs"?
You're the Ray Gordon of software development.
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Date: 26 Aug 2008 01:26:56
From: Kenneth Sloan
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
|
Sanny wrote:
> Now, you canm play with both White and
> Black pieces.
>
Wow! With advanced features like this, Sanny's place in the chess
programmers pantheon is assured.
--
Kenneth Sloan [email protected]
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://KennethRSloan.com/
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 18:46:40
From: help bot
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
|
zzz wrote:
> It doesn't want to play white anymore.
> The clock starts running but it never makes its move, no matter how
> long I wait.
> It doesn't show what move it is thinking about, it doesn't show any
> score. It just sits there.
> Restarting my PC didn't help either.
> It still plays black, though.
I generally play chess in the background,
while performing other, /relatively/ more
important work. It never even occurred to
me to try the other color, since I got the
idea in my head that when I choose
White I am in effect, taking odds, however
small.
I know this may sound hard to believe,
but when Sanny's program is not messed
up as it has been lately, but on the top of
its game, I can "feel" the difference
between having White and having Black.
As Black there is less margin for error,
and it seems to take longer to win.
Just as an example, my last game was
against the "Master" level, and I felt no
compunction against taking White. The
details are now forgotten, but I effortlessly
won two pawns while retaining a lead in
development, whereupon the program
refused to move, ever. Yet when I have
in the past taken Black against the
higher levels and they are playing well,
the games seem to drag out, possibly
even reaching the endgame before my
vast superiority shines through. : >D
-- help bot
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 12:15:30
From: zzz
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
|
On 25 aug, 09:57, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Yesterday 2 new bugs came that hang the game. Now those bugs have been
> removed.
>
> So Players having trouble playing with GetClub let me know it. I will
> reset their games.
>
> As that bug was stopping the program to play its move. Now if you are
> waiting for a move by GetClub. I suggest you close your computer and
> restart the game So that it plays correctly.
>
> Still if you are facing any problem let me know.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
It doesn't want to play white anymore.
The clock starts running but it never makes its move, no matter how
long I wait.
It doesn't show what move it is thinking about, it doesn't show any
score. It just sits there.
Restarting my PC didn't help either.
It still plays black, though.
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 02:21:35
From: help bot
Subject: Re: 2 new bugs appeared at GetClub
|
Sanny wrote:
> Yesterday 2 new bugs came that hang the game. Now those bugs have been
> removed.
>
> So Players having trouble playing with GetClub let me know it. I will
> reset their games.
I noticed that the program jumped to the
game's starting position and started in with
its "thinking", but then it would not move--
ever. On my second try, I noticed that it
very rapidly cycled past the screen where
I would have been able to choose an odds
game. It went to the normal starting
position and began "thinking", but where it
normally displays the opponent's last move,
or some silly random move on its first turn
as White, it had a dash or hyphen,
indicating that it was not functioning
"normally" (which is to say, in its usual,
quite odd manner). It did not seem to
know what my "previous" move had been,
where it had White and we were on the
very first move, so it just sits there.
I am reminded of the story about two
patzers who were playing one another and
both lost track of whose turn it was to
move, each of them growing impatient
toward the other patzer.
-- help bot
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