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Main
Date: 15 May 2008 09:21:00
From:
Subject: game with 16 queens and mate-in-4, game with 18 queens - courtesy
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This one is mine:
1. 4k3/qqqqqqqq/8/8/8/8/QQQQQQQQ/4K3 w - - 0 109: [pos. 1]
White to play and mate in 4.
There are no duals - only one moves mates in 4. [there is no mate in 3
or less.]
Move given at end of post, with sample continuation.
These two were posed by me and solved by likesforests [see fics
(www.freechess.org) or chess.com] in 20 minutes total!
2. Give a proof game for pos. 1, ie Show that the position in prob. 1
is legally reachable by giving a game that leads to the position.
3. Okay, so you can reach a position where you have 16 queens on
board. Can you construct a game which reaches a position with 18
queens? If so, do so! [the last part carries 99% of the credit - it
is to pre-empt the answers "yes" and "no".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(note: these can be more conveniently viewed at chess.com in the
thread "advantage of moving first - mate in 4 in symmetrical position"
in the forum-category "more puzzles")
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Solution to 2: by likesforests
[Event ]
[Site ]
[Date ..]
[White likesforests]
[Black likesforests]
[Result 1-0]
[PlyCount 216]
1. a4 b5 2. a5 b4 3. a6 Bb7 4. axb7 Nc6 5. Na3 bxa3 6. b8=Q a2 7. Rb1
a1=Q 8. Qb3 Qa6 9. Qa2 Qb7 10. b4 a5 11. b5 a4 12. b6 Qa6 13. b7 a3
14. Qb3 a2 15. b8=Q a1=Q 16. Qh3 Q1a5 17. Qbb3 Ne5 18. Qbg3 c5 19. Rb3
c4 20. c3 cxb3 21. c4 b2 22. c5 b1=Q 23. c6 Qba2 24. c7 Qb8 25. Bb2 f6
26. Bc3 Kf7 27. c8=Q d5 28. Qc4 Nc6 29. Qch4 d4 30. d3 dxc3 31. d4 c2+
32. Qd2 Ra7 33. f3 Q5a4 34. Kf2 c1=Q 35. d5 Qca3 36. d6 e5 37. e4 Nge7
38. d7 Kg8 39. d8=Q Qa8 40. Qb6 Nb4 41. Qbe3 Nbd5 42. exd5 e4 43. Ne2
f5 44. Qeh6 f4 45. Kg1 e3 46. Nd4 e2 47. d6 e1=Q 48. d7 Qea1 49. d8=Q
Nd5 50. Nc2 Nc3 51. Ne3 fxe3 52. Qdg5 e2 53. Qdf4 e1=Q 54. Qfg4 Qeb1
55. f4 g6 56. Qc5 g5 57. f5 Bg7 58. Qgc4+ Rf7 59. f6 Bf8 60. Q5b4 g4
61. Qe5 g3 62. Qe1 Ne4 63. Qcb3 Nd2 64. Qhc4 Nf3+ 65. gxf3 g2 66. Be2
Bg7 67. Kf2 Bf8 68. Ke3 g1=Q+ 69. Kf4 Qgb6 70. Qcc3 Be7 71. Kg4 Qe6+
72. Kg3 Rf8 73. fxe7 Rf7 74. e8=Q+ Rf8 75. Qeb5 Qf7 76. f4 Re8 77. f5
Re6 78. fxe6 Qff8 79. e7+ Qf7 80. Rf1 Qaf8 81. e8=Q Qa8 82. Qbb2 Q4a7
83. Qed2 Q3a6 84. Rf3 Q8b7 85. Qcc2 Qac4 86. Q4b3 Qad6+ 87. Kg2 Qdc7
88. Q3a2 Qce6 89. Qhe3 Qed7 90. Q8e4 Q8e7 91. Qb2b3 Qag7+ 92. Qg3 Qbb2
93. Bc4 Qbf6 94. Kf1 h5 95. Rf5 Qfxf5+ 96. Ke1 Rh6 97. Qxh6 Qfh7 98.
Qhxh5 Qfxc4 99. Qee2 Qcf7 100. Qbb2 Kf8 101. Qgf2 Ke8 102. h4 Kf8 103.
Qhg4 Qhxh4 104. Qgg2 Qhh7 105. Qbh5 Ke8 106. Qhh2 Qfe6 107. Qff3 Q6f6
108. Qff2 Qff7 1-0
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solution to 3: by likesforests
Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[White "likesforests"]
[Black "likesforests"]
[Result "1-0"]
[PlyCount "198"]
1. a4 b5 2. a5 b4 3. a6 Bb7 4. axb7 Nc6 5. Na3 bxa3 6. b8=Q a2 7. Rb1
a1=Q 8. Qb3 Qa6 9. Qa2 Qb7 10. b4 a5 11. b5 a4 12. b6 Qa6 13. b7 a3
14. Qb3 a2 15. b8=Q a1=Q 16. Qh3 Q1a5 17. Qbb3 Ne5 18. Qbg3 c5 19. Rb3
c4 20. c3 cxb3 21. c4 b2 22. c5 b1=Q 23. c6 Qba2 24. c7 Qb8 25. Bb2 f6
26. Bc3 Kf7 27. c8=Q d5 28. Qc4 Nc6 29. Qch4 d4 30. d3 dxc3 31. d4 c2+
32. Qd2 Ra7 33. f3 Q5a4 34. Kf2 c1=Q 35. d5 Qca3 36. d6 e5 37. e4 Nge7
38. d7 Kg8 39. d8=Q Qa8 40. Qb6 Nb4 41. Qbe3 Nbd5 42. exd5 e4 43. Ne2
f5 44. Qeh6 f4 45. Kg1 e3 46. Nd4 e2 47. d6 e1=Q 48. d7 Qea1 49. d8=Q
Nd5 50. Nc2 Nc3 51. Ne3 fxe3 52. Qdg5 e2 53. Qdf4 e1=Q 54. Qfg4 Qeb1
55. f4 g6 56. Qc5 g5 57. f5 Bg7 58. Qgc4+ Rf7 59. f6 Bf8 60. Q5b4 g4
61. Qe5 g3 62. Qe1 Ne4 63. Qcb3 Nd2 64. Qhc4 Nf3+ 65. gxf3 g2 66. Be2
Bg7 67. Kf2 Bf8 68. Ke3 g1=Q+ 69. Kf4 Qgb6 70. Qcc3 Be7 71. Kg4 Qe6+
72. Kg3 Rf8 73. fxe7 Rf7 74. e8=Q+ Rf8 75. Qeb5 Qf7 76. f4 Re8 77. f5
Re6 78. fxe6 Qff8 79. e7+ Qf7 80. Rf1 Qaf8 81. e8=Q Qa8 82. Qhc1 ( 82.
Qbb2 Q4a7 83. Qed2 Q3a6 84. Rf3 Q8b7 85. Qcc2 Qac4 86. Q4b3 Qad6+ 87.
Kg2 Qdc7 88. Q3a2 Qce6 89. Qhe3 Qed7 90. Q8e4 Q8e7 91. Qb2b3 Qag7+ 92.
Qg3 Qbb2 93. Bc4 Qbf6 94. Kf1 h5 95. Rf5 Qfxf5+ 96. Ke1 Rh6 97. Qxh6
Qfh7 98. Qhxh5 Qfxc4 99. Qee2 Qcf7 100. Qbb2 Kf8 101. Qgf2 Ke8 102. h4
Kf8 103. Qhg4 Qhxh4 104. Qgg2 Qhh7 105. Qbh5 Ke8 106. Qhh2 Qfe6 107.
Qff3 Q6f6 108. Qff2 Qff7 ) h5 83. Qhc8 h4+ 84. Kg4 h3 85. Bf3 Rh5 86.
Bg2 hxg2 87. h3 Rh4+ 88. Kxh4 g1=Q 89. Rf6 Qga7 90. Qec6 Q8b8 91. Q8a6
Q8e7 92. Kg4 Kf8 93. h4 Qbe8 94. Rd6 Qg8+ 95. Kf3 Qbg6 96. h5 Q6g7 97.
h6 Qad7 98. h7 Qa5 99. h8=Q Qdxd6
1-0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
solution to 1: 1. Qaxf7+!
Sample continuations:
1... Kd8 2. Qexe7+ Kc8 3. Qdxd7+ Kb8 4. Qdd8#
1... Qxf7 2. Qh8+ Qxh8 3. Qxh8+ Qf8 4. Qfxf8#
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Date: 31 May 2008 08:29:24
From: SBD
Subject: Re: game with 16 queens and mate-in-4, game with 18 queens - courtesy
|
On May 30, 11:54 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On May 19, 11:17 pm, SBD <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On May 15, 11:21 am, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > This one is mine:
> > > 1. 4k3/qqqqqqqq/8/8/8/8/QQQQQQQQ/4K3 w - - 0 109: [pos. 1]
> > > White to play and mate in 4.
> > > There are no duals - only one moves mates in 4. [there is no mate in 3
> > > or less.]
>
> > It would be better - just being a stickler - to note that there is no
> > dual *in the key*. There are at least 22 duals in the continuation.
>
> > Construction of such a problem with no duals at all would be
> > phenomenal.
>
> replying to all the above posts:
>
> "no dual key" to avoid confusion - point taken.
>
> Re if the proof games were known before - I don't think so, because I
> have not seen the *questions* having been posed publicly before - and
> i am rather interested in such chess curiosities for more than 3
> decades --- maybe you can ask likesforests to construct a proof game
> for some other wierd position you think of - and see how fast he
> replies. If he is in the mood and is not affronted by innuendo that he
> just copied the answers :)
I just can't help thinking I've seen it before - which is not to say I
have or that I am inferring copying...
I enjoy multi-queen problems of all types. On one server I did enjoy
playing in a variant that started with the WK on its start square, all
8 pawns, and then queens (7) on each back rank. It was very
interesting to me how the basic strategy seemed to be to sacrifice a
pawn for initiative and then also often, trade queens until the few
left were positioned so that "first check" won, as in many K+Q
endgames.....
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Date: 30 May 2008 09:54:20
From:
Subject: Re: game with 16 queens and mate-in-4, game with 18 queens - courtesy
|
On May 19, 11:17 pm, SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> On May 15, 11:21 am, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > This one is mine:
> > 1. 4k3/qqqqqqqq/8/8/8/8/QQQQQQQQ/4K3 w - - 0 109: [pos. 1]
> > White to play and mate in 4.
> > There are no duals - only one moves mates in 4. [there is no mate in 3
> > or less.]
>
> It would be better - just being a stickler - to note that there is no
> dual *in the key*. There are at least 22 duals in the continuation.
>
> Construction of such a problem with no duals at all would be
> phenomenal.
replying to all the above posts:
"no dual key" to avoid confusion - point taken.
Re if the proof games were known before - I don't think so, because I
have not seen the *questions* having been posed publicly before - and
i am rather interested in such chess curiosities for more than 3
decades --- maybe you can ask likesforests to construct a proof game
for some other wierd position you think of - and see how fast he
replies. If he is in the mood and is not affronted by innuendo that he
just copied the answers :)
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Date: 19 May 2008 11:17:02
From: SBD
Subject: Re: game with 16 queens and mate-in-4, game with 18 queens - courtesy
|
On May 15, 11:21 am, [email protected] wrote:
> This one is mine:
> 1. 4k3/qqqqqqqq/8/8/8/8/QQQQQQQQ/4K3 w - - 0 109: [pos. 1]
> White to play and mate in 4.
> There are no duals - only one moves mates in 4. [there is no mate in 3
> or less.]
It would be better - just being a stickler - to note that there is no
dual *in the key*. There are at least 22 duals in the continuation.
Construction of such a problem with no duals at all would be
phenomenal.
|
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Date: 19 May 2008 11:14:33
From: SBD
Subject: Re: game with 16 queens and mate-in-4, game with 18 queens - courtesy
|
On May 15, 11:21 am, [email protected] wrote:
> This one is mine:
> 1. 4k3/qqqqqqqq/8/8/8/8/QQQQQQQQ/4K3 w - - 0 109: [pos. 1]
> White to play and mate in 4.
> There are no duals - only one moves mates in 4. [there is no mate in 3
> or less.]
> Move given at end of post, with sample continuation.
>
> These two were posed by me and solved by likesforests [see fics
> (www.freechess.org) or chess.com] in 20 minutes total!
>
> 2. Give a proof game for pos. 1, ie Show that the position in prob. 1
> is legally reachable by giving a game that leads to the position.
>
> 3. Okay, so you can reach a position where you have 16 queens on
> board. Can you construct a game which reaches a position with 18
> queens? If so, do so! [the last part carries 99% of the credit - it
> is to pre-empt the answers "yes" and "no".
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> (note: these can be more conveniently viewed at chess.com in the
> thread "advantage of moving first - mate in 4 in symmetrical position"
> in the forum-category "more puzzles")
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Solution to 2: by likesforests
> [Event ]
> [Site ]
> [Date ..]
> [White likesforests]
> [Black likesforests]
> [Result 1-0]
> [PlyCount 216]
>
> 1. a4 b5 2. a5 b4 3. a6 Bb7 4. axb7 Nc6 5. Na3 bxa3 6. b8=Q a2 7. Rb1
> a1=Q 8. Qb3 Qa6 9. Qa2 Qb7 10. b4 a5 11. b5 a4 12. b6 Qa6 13. b7 a3
> 14. Qb3 a2 15. b8=Q a1=Q 16. Qh3 Q1a5 17. Qbb3 Ne5 18. Qbg3 c5 19. Rb3
> c4 20. c3 cxb3 21. c4 b2 22. c5 b1=Q 23. c6 Qba2 24. c7 Qb8 25. Bb2 f6
> 26. Bc3 Kf7 27. c8=Q d5 28. Qc4 Nc6 29. Qch4 d4 30. d3 dxc3 31. d4 c2+
> 32. Qd2 Ra7 33. f3 Q5a4 34. Kf2 c1=Q 35. d5 Qca3 36. d6 e5 37. e4 Nge7
> 38. d7 Kg8 39. d8=Q Qa8 40. Qb6 Nb4 41. Qbe3 Nbd5 42. exd5 e4 43. Ne2
> f5 44. Qeh6 f4 45. Kg1 e3 46. Nd4 e2 47. d6 e1=Q 48. d7 Qea1 49. d8=Q
> Nd5 50. Nc2 Nc3 51. Ne3 fxe3 52. Qdg5 e2 53. Qdf4 e1=Q 54. Qfg4 Qeb1
> 55. f4 g6 56. Qc5 g5 57. f5 Bg7 58. Qgc4+ Rf7 59. f6 Bf8 60. Q5b4 g4
> 61. Qe5 g3 62. Qe1 Ne4 63. Qcb3 Nd2 64. Qhc4 Nf3+ 65. gxf3 g2 66. Be2
> Bg7 67. Kf2 Bf8 68. Ke3 g1=Q+ 69. Kf4 Qgb6 70. Qcc3 Be7 71. Kg4 Qe6+
> 72. Kg3 Rf8 73. fxe7 Rf7 74. e8=Q+ Rf8 75. Qeb5 Qf7 76. f4 Re8 77. f5
> Re6 78. fxe6 Qff8 79. e7+ Qf7 80. Rf1 Qaf8 81. e8=Q Qa8 82. Qbb2 Q4a7
> 83. Qed2 Q3a6 84. Rf3 Q8b7 85. Qcc2 Qac4 86. Q4b3 Qad6+ 87. Kg2 Qdc7
> 88. Q3a2 Qce6 89. Qhe3 Qed7 90. Q8e4 Q8e7 91. Qb2b3 Qag7+ 92. Qg3 Qbb2
> 93. Bc4 Qbf6 94. Kf1 h5 95. Rf5 Qfxf5+ 96. Ke1 Rh6 97. Qxh6 Qfh7 98.
> Qhxh5 Qfxc4 99. Qee2 Qcf7 100. Qbb2 Kf8 101. Qgf2 Ke8 102. h4 Kf8 103.
> Qhg4 Qhxh4 104. Qgg2 Qhh7 105. Qbh5 Ke8 106. Qhh2 Qfe6 107. Qff3 Q6f6
> 108. Qff2 Qff7 1-0
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> solution to 3: by likesforests
>
> Event "?"]
> [Site "?"]
> [Date "????.??.??"]
> [White "likesforests"]
> [Black "likesforests"]
> [Result "1-0"]
> [PlyCount "198"]
>
> 1. a4 b5 2. a5 b4 3. a6 Bb7 4. axb7 Nc6 5. Na3 bxa3 6. b8=Q a2 7. Rb1
> a1=Q 8. Qb3 Qa6 9. Qa2 Qb7 10. b4 a5 11. b5 a4 12. b6 Qa6 13. b7 a3
> 14. Qb3 a2 15. b8=Q a1=Q 16. Qh3 Q1a5 17. Qbb3 Ne5 18. Qbg3 c5 19. Rb3
> c4 20. c3 cxb3 21. c4 b2 22. c5 b1=Q 23. c6 Qba2 24. c7 Qb8 25. Bb2 f6
> 26. Bc3 Kf7 27. c8=Q d5 28. Qc4 Nc6 29. Qch4 d4 30. d3 dxc3 31. d4 c2+
> 32. Qd2 Ra7 33. f3 Q5a4 34. Kf2 c1=Q 35. d5 Qca3 36. d6 e5 37. e4 Nge7
> 38. d7 Kg8 39. d8=Q Qa8 40. Qb6 Nb4 41. Qbe3 Nbd5 42. exd5 e4 43. Ne2
> f5 44. Qeh6 f4 45. Kg1 e3 46. Nd4 e2 47. d6 e1=Q 48. d7 Qea1 49. d8=Q
> Nd5 50. Nc2 Nc3 51. Ne3 fxe3 52. Qdg5 e2 53. Qdf4 e1=Q 54. Qfg4 Qeb1
> 55. f4 g6 56. Qc5 g5 57. f5 Bg7 58. Qgc4+ Rf7 59. f6 Bf8 60. Q5b4 g4
> 61. Qe5 g3 62. Qe1 Ne4 63. Qcb3 Nd2 64. Qhc4 Nf3+ 65. gxf3 g2 66. Be2
> Bg7 67. Kf2 Bf8 68. Ke3 g1=Q+ 69. Kf4 Qgb6 70. Qcc3 Be7 71. Kg4 Qe6+
> 72. Kg3 Rf8 73. fxe7 Rf7 74. e8=Q+ Rf8 75. Qeb5 Qf7 76. f4 Re8 77. f5
> Re6 78. fxe6 Qff8 79. e7+ Qf7 80. Rf1 Qaf8 81. e8=Q Qa8 82. Qhc1 ( 82.
> Qbb2 Q4a7 83. Qed2 Q3a6 84. Rf3 Q8b7 85. Qcc2 Qac4 86. Q4b3 Qad6+ 87.
> Kg2 Qdc7 88. Q3a2 Qce6 89. Qhe3 Qed7 90. Q8e4 Q8e7 91. Qb2b3 Qag7+ 92.
> Qg3 Qbb2 93. Bc4 Qbf6 94. Kf1 h5 95. Rf5 Qfxf5+ 96. Ke1 Rh6 97. Qxh6
> Qfh7 98. Qhxh5 Qfxc4 99. Qee2 Qcf7 100. Qbb2 Kf8 101. Qgf2 Ke8 102. h4
> Kf8 103. Qhg4 Qhxh4 104. Qgg2 Qhh7 105. Qbh5 Ke8 106. Qhh2 Qfe6 107.
> Qff3 Q6f6 108. Qff2 Qff7 ) h5 83. Qhc8 h4+ 84. Kg4 h3 85. Bf3 Rh5 86.
> Bg2 hxg2 87. h3 Rh4+ 88. Kxh4 g1=Q 89. Rf6 Qga7 90. Qec6 Q8b8 91. Q8a6
> Q8e7 92. Kg4 Kf8 93. h4 Qbe8 94. Rd6 Qg8+ 95. Kf3 Qbg6 96. h5 Q6g7 97.
> h6 Qad7 98. h7 Qa5 99. h8=Q Qdxd6
> 1-0
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> solution to 1: 1. Qaxf7+!
> Sample continuations:
> 1... Kd8 2. Qexe7+ Kc8 3. Qdxd7+ Kb8 4. Qdd8#
> 1... Qxf7 2. Qh8+ Qxh8 3. Qxh8+ Qf8 4. Qfxf8#
Very neat. Are you sure it is not already known?
I wonder if there is any twinning possible by moving the Ks.
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