french vs. caro kann

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Date: 09 Nov 2004 04:59:11
From: Ivan
Subject: french vs. caro kann

Which defense gives black better chances against white?

Date: 12 Nov 2004 07:12:49
From: mikimaus
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

> Which defense gives black better chances against white?

At what level and against who/what? You can always look into the stats. In
my opinion it's harder to play Caro-Kann, and there's no edge for doing so.

Date: 14 Nov 2004 23:35:23
From: Ron
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

In article <[email protected] >,
"mikimaus" <[email protected] > wrote:

> > Which defense gives black better chances against white?
>
> At what level and against who/what? You can always look into the stats. In
> my opinion it's harder to play Caro-Kann, and there's no edge for doing so.

Also, better chances for what?

Black wins and loses more often with the french defense than with the
C-K, which produces more draws.

The defenses really don't have that much in common.

-Ron

Date: 09 Nov 2004 20:26:50
From: Jack
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

[email protected] (Ivan) wrote in message news:<[email protected] >...
> Which defense gives black better chances against white?

french is superior to the caro kann.

IMO c6 is something of a wasted move. It doesn't allow the
development of the bishops. Whereas e6 allows the development
of the kings bishop. Sure it allows black to go Qb6 or c7, or a5
but it's not necessary developing move. c6 also blocks a natural
developing square for the Knt on c6. what's more the french
also allows for more interesting counterattacking possibilities.
Whereas the carokann is a long drawn out affair of defending
till the endgame. That's why I have a hard time understanding
why anyone plays the Caro.

Date: 10 Nov 2004 09:28:44
From: Toni Lassila
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

On 9 Nov 2004 20:26:50 -0800, [email protected] (Jack) wrote:

>IMO c6 is something of a wasted move. It doesn't allow the
>development of the bishops.

Where are the bishops going on move 2?

>1...Whereas e6 allows the development of the kings bishop.

1...c6 allows the development of the queen's bishop.

>Whereas the carokann is a long drawn out affair of defending
>till the endgame. That's why I have a hard time understanding
>why anyone plays the Caro.

Perhaps because they're good at defending and the endgame (� la
Karpov)?

--
King's Gambit - http://kingsgambit.blogspot.com
Chess problems, tactics, analysis and more.

Date: 09 Nov 2004 17:13:45
From: buh bye
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

[email protected] (Ivan) wrote in message news:<[email protected] >...
> Which defense gives black better chances against white?

I usually avoid bait like this, but I'm bored. I think the answer is
that the French offers Black a better chance of winning the game, but
it also provides Black a better chance of losing the game. The
majority of Caro Kann lines are modest attempts to hold the balance,
where Black hopes to exploit a nuanced White mistake. Many lines of
the French feature full blooded counter attacks and dynamic unbalanced
positions. Playing the French well demands more theorhetical
preparation and general chess understanding than the Caro Kann. So
the answer was accurately alluded to by another poster, Ivan should
consider his general playing style and choose between the two openings
as to which typical middlegame positions resulting from each appeal to
him the most. There really isn't a purely objective answer.

Date: 10 Nov 2004 03:51:32
From: Good Moves aren't worth BEANS ......
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

"buh bye" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Ivan) wrote in message
news:<[email protected] >...
> > Which defense gives black better chances against white?
>
> I usually avoid bait like this, but I'm bored. I think the answer is
> that the French offers Black a better chance of winning the game, but
> it also provides Black a better chance of losing the game.

ie, the volitility (look that word up moron) of the position increases. This
has nothing to do with the question that was asked.

> Playing the French well demands more theorhetical
> preparation and general chess understanding than the >Caro Kann.

More nonsense from a know-nothing idiot! Both the French and the Caro are
very demanding theoretically. Did you not see the Caro game that Leko played
in the last round against Kramnik?

Jason

Date: 10 Nov 2004 16:34:43
From: John A Swartz
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

> ie, the volitility (look that word up moron) of the position increases. This
> has nothing to do with the question that was asked.

Yes, just make sure you look it up under "volatility", or you may not
find it....

Date: 11 Nov 2004 03:22:54
From: Good Moves aren't worth BEANS ......
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

Swartz, the 1600 rated snivelling coward of the usenet rears his ugly little
head. I've been waiting for you to come to Winnipeg like you promised you
would you frightened little punkass. I told your dorky little boyfriend
"Micah Hughey" that I wanted to see you, to have a "friendly little coffee".
Did he not give you the message?

One of these days Swartz, I will finish what you started. You can't keep
hiding forever.

Jason Repa

"John A Swartz" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > ie, the volitility (look that word up moron) of the position increases.
This
> > has nothing to do with the question that was asked.
>
>
> Yes, just make sure you look it up under "volatility", or you may not
> find it....

Date: 11 Nov 2004 04:49:57
From: Matt Nemmers
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

"Good Moves aren't worth BEANS ......" <[email protected] > wrote in
message news:iWAkd.181589$nl.173533@pd7tw3no...
> Swartz, the 1600 rated snivelling coward of the usenet rears his ugly
> little
> head. I've been waiting for you to come to Winnipeg like you promised you
> would you frightened little punkass. I told your dorky little boyfriend
> "Micah Hughey" that I wanted to see you, to have a "friendly little
> coffee".
> Did he not give you the message?
>
> One of these days Swartz, I will finish what you started. You can't keep
> hiding forever.
>
> Jason Repa

LOL. Don't fret, John. Repa's been threatening to come "pay me a visit"
and "teach me a lesson" for a long while now. He even promised to visit me
this summer at my Quad City address: 100 Patton Circle, Rock Island,
Illinois, but never showed up. I think he's scared. Either that, or he's
too broke to make the trip. I suspect it's a bit of both. Of course, he'll
now say that he "doesn't have time to waste on a 1500-rated loser like
Nemmers," but we all know that's just a cop-out for his inability to kick
ANYBODY'S ass, let alone mine.

He's nothing but a pussified Usenet bully who's big online but nobody's ever
actually seen or heard of him backing up ANY of his assertions here. I
don't give any more thought to Repa's supposed "threats" than I do to Jerry
Bibuld's claims that the U.S. government blew up the twin towers.

Grain of salt, my friend. Grain of salt.

Regards,

Matt

Date: 15 Nov 2004 11:54:24
From: John A Swartz
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

LOL - no worries Matt. Besides, the guy apparently can't even take the
time these days to look up my correct rating - it's "only" 1461 these
days - I guess he gets us weak players confused... ;-)

He apparently suffers from the delusion that I promised to pay him a
visit - like you and others here, I have much better things to do with
my life. And, if the guy can't make it from Winnepeg to Illinois, I
have much less faith that he'll ever pay me a visint in Boston (but one
can dream, can't we?).

Matt Nemmers wrote:

> "Good Moves aren't worth BEANS ......" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:iWAkd.181589$nl.173533@pd7tw3no...
>
>>Swartz, the 1600 rated snivelling coward of the usenet rears his ugly
>>little
>>head. I've been waiting for you to come to Winnipeg like you promised you
>>would you frightened little punkass. I told your dorky little boyfriend
>>"Micah Hughey" that I wanted to see you, to have a "friendly little
>>coffee".
>>Did he not give you the message?
>>
>>One of these days Swartz, I will finish what you started. You can't keep
>>hiding forever.
>>
>>Jason Repa
>
>
> LOL. Don't fret, John. Repa's been threatening to come "pay me a visit"
> and "teach me a lesson" for a long while now. He even promised to visit me
> this summer at my Quad City address: 100 Patton Circle, Rock Island,
> Illinois, but never showed up. I think he's scared. Either that, or he's
> too broke to make the trip. I suspect it's a bit of both. Of course, he'll
> now say that he "doesn't have time to waste on a 1500-rated loser like
> Nemmers," but we all know that's just a cop-out for his inability to kick
> ANYBODY'S ass, let alone mine.
>
> He's nothing but a pussified Usenet bully who's big online but nobody's ever
> actually seen or heard of him backing up ANY of his assertions here. I
> don't give any more thought to Repa's supposed "threats" than I do to Jerry
> Bibuld's claims that the U.S. government blew up the twin towers.
>
> Grain of salt, my friend. Grain of salt.
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt
>
>

Date: 15 Nov 2004 20:41:40
From: Good Moves aren't worth BEANS ......
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

"John A Swartz" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> LOL - no worries Matt. Besides, the guy apparently can't even take the
> time these days to look up my correct rating - it's "only" 1461 these
> days - I guess he gets us weak players confused... ;-)
>
> He apparently suffers from the delusion that I promised to pay him a
> visit - like you and others here,

My mistake, I had you confused with another braindead, know-nothing, jackass
named "John McNab". He is the idiot that said he was coming to Winnipeg to
see me then backed down.

Date: 11 Nov 2004 15:55:40
From: Good Moves aren't worth BEANS ......
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

More lies from the well known EX millitary faggot that was booted out of the
army for making sexual advances on men in the shower, named Nemmers! How
long are you going to continue to peddle your bullshit Nemmers? I'ts not
like you have a shred of credibility left to lose, but seriously? I once
made the comment that I MAY come to see you sometime when I was planning to
visit the states for other reasons. Interesting how you mangle that into
"threats" and "promises". I've seen your picture Nemmers, I know for a fact
that I would knock your fat ass out so fast you wouldn't know what hit you.
That is 100% fact. Like I said earlier kiddo, we may end up running into
each other at a major chess event. It would be a long walk for me to get to
the "D" class section to come see you, but what the heck.

Nemmers, all kidding aside, you have got to be the dumbest troll ever to
show up in a chess newsgroup. Not only are you too stupid for the game of
chess, as clearly evidenced by the fact that you've been rated 1100 for the
bulk of your time playing tournaments, but you are completely unarmed in
every other mental arena. One can only wonder how much oxygen you got to
your gay brain while your boozer, whore mother was carrying you.

Jason Repa

Date: 11 Nov 2004 13:05:34
From: J�rgen R.
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

[...]
>
>He's nothing but a pussified Usenet bully who's big online but nobody's ever
>actually seen or heard of him backing up ANY of his assertions here.

Rather like Nemmers.

> I
>don't give any more thought to Repa's supposed "threats" than I do to Jerry
>Bibuld's claims that the U.S. government blew up the twin towers.
>
>Grain of salt, my friend. Grain of salt.
>
>Regards,
>
>Matt
>
>

Date: 11 Nov 2004 15:40:33
From: Good Moves aren't worth BEANS ......
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

"J�rgen R." <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [...]
> >
> >He's nothing but a pussified Usenet bully who's big online but nobody's
ever
> >actually seen or heard of him backing up ANY of his assertions here.
>
> Rather like Nemmers.

Hmmm, another guy that knows what a complete jackass you are Nemmers. Looks
like you're about as popular here as you were in the army. Better get those
alias's ready to start defending yourself again.

Jason Repa

Date: 13 Nov 2004 21:08:29
From: michael adams
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

..

> >
> > Rather like Nemmers.
>
> Hmmm, another guy that knows what a complete jackass you are Nemmers. Looks
> like you're about as popular here as you were in the army. Better get those
> alias's ready to start defending yourself again.

Yes, but given his limited Englisch (assumed), he might be expressing
admiration for Matt..

Date: 11 Nov 2004 04:49:56
From: Matt Nemmers
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

Date: 10 Nov 2004 12:58:27
From: buh bye
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

"Good Moves aren't worth BEANS ......" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<8fgkd.168433$nl.167015@pd7tw3no>...
> "buh bye" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > [email protected] (Ivan) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > Which defense gives black better chances against white?
> >
> > I usually avoid bait like this, but I'm bored. I think the answer is
> > that the French offers Black a better chance of winning the game, but
> > it also provides Black a better chance of losing the game.
>
> ie, the volitility (look that word up moron) of the position increases. This
> has nothing to do with the question that was asked.
>
> > Playing the French well demands more theorhetical
> > preparation and general chess understanding than the >Caro Kann.
>
>
> More nonsense from a know-nothing idiot! Both the French and the Caro are
> very demanding theoretically. Did you not see the Caro game that Leko played
> in the last round against Kramnik?
>
> Jason

It is odd that one does feel a certain desire to respond to the
trolls, testament to the powers of trolling. Anyway, to the vast
majority of strong players Jason's reply reveals his low level of
chess understanding. I'll make a brief comment and then not play into
his hands any longer, at the GM level all openings are demanding
theorhetically, for the weekend warrior class player it is another
ball game, they need lines which don't require massive memorization to
survive into the middlegame, and for that purpose the Caro Kann
demands far less than the French.

I'm always curious where the Jason's get so much time to fill Usenet
with their crap, my theory is they are, e.g., on disability payments
or something so they don't have to work, they have no friends, and so
bashing out "provactive" shit on the Usenet represents a good use of
their time.

Date: 11 Nov 2004 03:18:33
From: Good Moves aren't worth BEANS ......
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

"buh bye" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Good Moves aren't worth BEANS ......"
<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:<8fgkd.168433$nl.167015@pd7tw3no >...
> > "buh bye" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > [email protected] (Ivan) wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > Which defense gives black better chances against white?
> > >
> > > I usually avoid bait like this, but I'm bored. I think the answer is
> > > that the French offers Black a better chance of winning the game, but
> > > it also provides Black a better chance of losing the game.
> >
> > ie, the volitility (look that word up moron) of the position increases.
This
> > has nothing to do with the question that was asked.
> >
> > > Playing the French well demands more theorhetical
> > > preparation and general chess understanding than the >Caro Kann.
> >
> >
> > More nonsense from a know-nothing idiot! Both the French and the Caro
are
> > very demanding theoretically. Did you not see the Caro game that Leko
played
> > in the last round against Kramnik?
> >
> > Jason
>
>
> It is odd that one does feel a certain desire to respond to the
> trolls, testament to the powers of trolling.

[sniped the rest of the nonsense from the idiot troll]

You're the troll you know-nothing jackass idiot. You have no understanding
whatsoever in chess. I cannot for the life of me understand why you
continue to annoy people with your drivel in this newsgroup. You clearly
must be unemployed.

Date: 09 Nov 2004 19:17:02
From: Good Moves aren't worth BEANS ......
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

"Ivan" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Which defense gives black better chances against white?

With that kind of absurdly sweeping inquiry, it is clear that neither will
give you any chances agains anyone 1400 or better.

Date: 09 Nov 2004 17:26:52
From: StanB
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

"Good Moves aren't worth BEANS ......" <[email protected] > wrote in
message news:OI8kd.168279$%k.71165@pd7tw2no...
>
> "Ivan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Which defense gives black better chances against white?
>
> With that kind of absurdly sweeping inquiry, it is clear that neither will
> give you any chances agains anyone 1400 or better.

The well-known Sam Sloan swears that the Grob is the best defense for black.

Date: 09 Nov 2004 16:45:11
From: Mike Ogush
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

On 9 Nov 2004 04:59:11 -0800, [email protected] (Ivan) wrote:

>Which defense gives black better chances against white?

GM Nigel Davies talked gave recommendatiosn for what to play against
1.e4 in his "Let's take a Look Column" from September 2004 on the
Chess Cafe web-site ( http://www.chesscafe.com/text/davies20.pdf ).
He mentions both the Caro-Kann and the French as well as most of the
other defenses. His recommendatiosn are based on the "style" of play
that you have in your games. The gist of his comments about these two
defenses:
* The objective of the Caro-Kann is to go for an end game where
Black has 4 pawns to 3 on the king-side with a half-open d-file.
* In most variations of the French you need to be good at planning
defense and counter attack.

Date: 09 Nov 2004 10:39:03
From: EZoto
Subject: Re: french vs. caro kann

On 9 Nov 2004 04:59:11 -0800, [email protected] (Ivan) wrote:

The Sicilian.

EZoto

>Which defense gives black better chances against white?