Why not take the queen?

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Date: 03 Sep 2008 05:06:52
From: Deepesh Garg
Subject: Why not take the queen?

http://tournaments.chessdom.com/bilbao/grand-slam-anand-ivanchuk-live

In move 43 black queen could take the white and was not in immediate
danger. Why black choose to move its pawn instead?

I am not an expert and must be missing something obvious.

Date: 03 Sep 2008 06:39:07
From: Deepesh Garg
Subject: Re: Why not take the queen?

On 3 Sep, 13:33, David Richerby <[email protected] > wrote:
> Deepesh Garg <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >http://tournaments.chessdom.com/bilbao/grand-slam-anand-ivanchuk-live
>
> > In move 43 black queen could take the white and was not in immediate
> > danger. Why black choose to move its pawn instead?
> > I am not an expert and must be missing something obvious.
>
> The game score you link to is incorrect and that position never
> occurred in the game.
>
> http://www.chessbase.com/news/2008/bilbao/games/bilbao1.htm
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby Indelible Sushi (TM): it's like a rawwww.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ fish but it can't be erased!

Hi,

Thanks for taking a look. Here is the PGN.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 O-O 8.c3
d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Rxe5 c6 12.d4 Bd6 13.Re1 Qh4 14.g3 Qh3
15.Be3 Bg4 16.Qd3 Re8 17.Nd2 Re6 18.Qf1 Qh5 19.f3 Rf6 20.Qe2 Bxf3
21.Nxf3 Rxf3 22.Bxd5 Qxd5 23.Bf2 Rf6 24.b3 Qf5 25.Rd1 h5 26.Rd3 h4
27.Re3 Rg6 28.c4 hxg3 29.hxg3 bxc4 30.bxc4 c5 31.Qf3 Qh3 32.Qg2 Qd7
33.dxc5 Bxc5 34.Re4 Qc7 35.Bxc5 Rf6 36.Be3 Rd8 37.Kh2 Rh6 38.Kg1 Qc5
39.Qf2 Qh5 40.Qg2 Rd2 41.Re8 Kh7 42.Qf2 Rxe2 43.Qf5 g6 44.Qe4 Qc5
45.a4 Qe7 46.Qc6 Qh4 47.a5 g5 48.Qd5

Although not sure if this is the right PGN cause I found this game at
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/nph-chesspgn?text=1&gid=1504192 having
same first 36 moves, but it's a totally different game after that.

Date: 03 Sep 2008 15:46:32
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Why not take the queen?

Deepesh Garg <[email protected] > wrote:
> Thanks for taking a look. Here is the PGN.
>
> 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 O-O
> 8.c3 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Rxe5 c6 12.d4 Bd6 13.Re1 Qh4
> 14.g3 Qh3 15.Be3 Bg4 16.Qd3 Re8 17.Nd2 Re6 18.Qf1 Qh5 19.f3 Rf6
> 20.Qe2 Bxf3 21.Nxf3 Rxf3 22.Bxd5 Qxd5 23.Bf2 Rf6 24.b3 Qf5 25.Rd1 h5
> 26.Rd3 h4 27.Re3 Rg6 28.c4 hxg3 29.hxg3 bxc4 30.bxc4 c5 31.Qf3 Qh3
> 32.Qg2 Qd7 33.dxc5 Bxc5 34.Re4 Qc7 35.Bxc5 Rf6 36.Be3 Rd8 37.Kh2 Rh6
> 38.Kg1 Qc5 39.Qf2 Qh5 40.Qg2 Rd2 41.Re8 Kh7 42.Qf2 Rxe2 43.Qf5 g6
> 44.Qe4 Qc5 45.a4 Qe7 46.Qc6 Qh4 47.a5 g5 48.Qd5
>
> Although not sure if this is the right PGN cause I found this game at
> http://www.chessgames.com/perl/nph-chesspgn?text=1&gid=1504192 having
> same first 36 moves, but it's a totally different game after that.

The 48-move PGN you've just quoted is from chessdom.com and is
incorrect. As I just said in my previous post. This was not the game
that was played. Anand did not hang his queen on move 43. The game
did not end with a draw after 48 moves. chessgames.com and
chessbase.com both agree that the game lasted 58 moves.

chessdom.com's notation is broken. For black's 16th move, they just
say `Re8', when both black rooks can move to e8. The correct move is
Rae8 but, when you play it through on their javascript board, it plays
Rfe8, moving the wrong rook. Likewise, white's 25th move should be
Rad1 but is written `Rd1' and interpreted as Red1. And, after move
35, chessdom.com is just completely wrong. Even though 35.Kh2 (the
move actually played) is legal in the position that chessdom.com
reports after black's 34th move, their version of the game goes off in
its own merry way.

chessdom.com's score for Radjabov-Topalov is also, technically,
incorrect, in that it doesn't annotate checks. At least it contains
no unambiguous moves.

To avoid this kind of thing, I recommend that you use a reliable
source for game scores, such as chessgames.com or chessbase.com.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Solar-Powered Moistened Gnome (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a smiling garden ornament
but it's moist and it doesn't work in
the dark!

Date: 06 Sep 2008 21:17:26
From: ibarix
Subject: Re: Why not take the queen?

"David Richerby" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:qJl*[email protected]...
> Deepesh Garg <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Thanks for taking a look. Here is the PGN.
>>
>
> To avoid this kind of thing, I recommend that you use a reliable
> source for game scores, such as chessgames.com or chessbase.com.
>

I agree. I watched that Anand-Ivanchuk game and that position never
happened.

Date: 03 Sep 2008 13:33:11
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Why not take the queen?

Deepesh Garg <[email protected] > wrote:
> http://tournaments.chessdom.com/bilbao/grand-slam-anand-ivanchuk-live
>
> In move 43 black queen could take the white and was not in immediate
> danger. Why black choose to move its pawn instead?
> I am not an expert and must be missing something obvious.

The game score you link to is incorrect and that position never
occurred in the game.

http://www.chessbase.com/news/2008/bilbao/games/bilbao1.htm

Dave.

--
David Richerby Indelible Sushi (TM): it's like a raw
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ fish but it can't be erased!