White to move and win?

Main

Date: 02 Jan 2005 02:20:30
From: Dc Gentle
Subject: White to move and win?

During my analysis of the Morra gambit
I encountered the following position:

r6k/5p2/p1R2N2/1p2P3/q7/8/5PPP/3R2K1 w - - 0 37

Control:
White: Kg1, Rd1, Rc6, Nf6, Pe5, f2, g2, h2 (8)
Black: Kh8, Qa4, Ra8, Pa6, b5, f7 (6)

The last move was 36... Qa4 attacking rook d1.
Regarding the weak black king position (a rook
on h7 would be check mate) one should think
that a white victory is not impossible, but
Black has got these two passed pawns and
a queen.

So the direct try to bring a rook on the
kingside like:

37. Rcd6 Rc8 38. g3 Kg7 39. R1d4 Rc4

is a draw only, because Black threatens to take
rook d4. Nevertheless my gut feelings told me
that White can reach more and really, I think
I found something. By the way, computers are rather
helpless in this position, because only a far
reaching plan will succeed.

So is it "White to move and win", what do you think?

Enjoy, and Happy New Year,
DC

Date: 02 Jan 2005 16:20:04
From: Ron
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

In article <[email protected] >,
"Dc Gentle" <[email protected] > wrote:

> r6k/5p2/p1R2N2/1p2P3/q7/8/5PPP/3R2K1 w - - 0 37
>
> Control:
> White: Kg1, Rd1, Rc6, Nf6, Pe5, f2, g2, h2 (8)
> Black: Kh8, Qa4, Ra8, Pa6, b5, f7 (6)

1. Rcd6 Rc8 2. Rd8+ Rxd8 3. Rxd8+ Kg7 4. Rg8+ Kh6 5. g4 Qd1+ 6. Kg2 Qc1
7. h4 Qc6+ 8. f3 and the threat of 9.g5 mate gives black nothing better
than Qxf6, when the rook easily stops the passed pawns.

That being said, I'm not absolutely convinced by this because 1. ...
Rc8, while being the move you gave, seems a little convenient from
white's point of view. I don't see why black would move his rook away
from the protection of his passed pawn.

1.Rcd6 a5 is a more logical move, the sort I'd expect to see over the
board by a player who didn't see white's play coming. 1....Rf8 looks
like a better attempt, but actually fails: 2.Rd8 Kg7 3.Rxf8 Kxf8 looks
like it escapes, but doesn't because 4.Rd8+ Ke7?? Re8 mate so black has
to play 4....Kg7 5.Rg8+ etc.

But what about 1.Rcd6 Qh4!?

The point is that after:

1. Rcd6 Qh4 2. Rd8+ Rxd8 3. Rxd8+ Kg7 4. Rg8+ Kh6 5. Rh8+ Kg5 6. Rxh4
Kxh4 can the knight stop the passed pawns? I think the answer is yes:
7.Nd5 a5 8.Kf1 b4 (8. ... Kg5 9. Ke2 Kf5 10.Ne7! when Nc6 will stop or
win the passed pawns) 9.Ke2 Kg5 10.Kf5 Nb6!

I'm hardly the strongest player on this newsgroup, but this whole
strategy (trade rooks, get the black king to h6, and mate with a g5 pawn
push) looks pretty solid to me.

What this your idea?

-Ron

Date: 03 Jan 2005 15:58:16
From: Dc Gentle
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

Ron wrote:
>
> > r6k/5p2/p1R2N2/1p2P3/q7/8/5PPP/3R2K1 w - - 0 37
> >
> > Control:
> > White: Kg1, Rd1, Rc6, Nf6, Pe5, f2, g2, h2 (8)
> > Black: Kh8, Qa4, Ra8, Pa6, b5, f7 (6)
>
>
> 1. Rcd6 Rc8 2. Rd8+ Rxd8 3. Rxd8+ Kg7 4. Rg8+ Kh6 5. g4 Qd1+ 6. Kg2 Qc1
> 7. h4 Qc6+ 8. f3 and the threat of 9.g5 mate gives black nothing better
> than Qxf6, when the rook easily stops the passed pawns.
>

Not quite... after 2. Rd8+ Black can play 2... Kg7 because of
3. Rxc8 Qxd1#. After 2... Kg7 3.g4? Rxd8 4. Rxd8 Qa1+ 5. Kg2 Qxe5
Black will even win, and 3. f4 Qc2 4. g4 b4 5. Nh5+ Kh7 6. R1d7 Qc1+
7. Kg2 Rxd8 8. Rxd8 Qc2+ is a draw only, because the white king
is too exposed.

> That being said, I'm not absolutely convinced by this because 1. ...
> Rc8, while being the move you gave, seems a little convenient from
> white's point of view.

Well... after 1. Rcd6 the move 1... Rc8 is forced, because Black
must prevent that White can bring a rook to the kingside, see below.

> 1.Rcd6 a5 is a more logical move, the sort I'd expect to see over the
> board by a player who didn't see white's play coming.

1.Rcd6 a5? 2. g3 Qc2
(2... Rc8 is too late now: 3. R1d4 Rc4
4. Rd8+ with fast check mate)
3. R1d4 Qc1+ 4. Kg2 a4 5. e6 Qc7 6. exf7 Qxf7 7. Rh4+ Kg7
8. Rh7+ winning the queen.

Well generally I think there was a misunderstanding. 1. Rcd6
is not the first move of my solution because it would be a spoiler
otherwise. I only wanted to show that a subtle procedure is required
in order to succeed.

So there is not a fast check mate here, but in order to find a way to
win this here there are some recommendations:

o White pawn moves are inevitable but must be in time.

o Don't expose the white king too much.

o Keep the black passed pawns under control.

o The target must be Black's biggest weakness
in the original position. (Which is this?)

o The first white move protects something.

Have fun and thanks for your reply, Ron.

DC.

Date: 03 Jan 2005 09:31:48
From: Ron
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

In article <[email protected] >,
"Dc Gentle" <[email protected] > wrote:

> Not quite... after 2. Rd8+ Black can play 2... Kg7 because of
> 3. Rxc8 Qxd1#. After 2... Kg7 3.g4? Rxd8 4. Rxd8 Qa1+ 5. Kg2 Qxe5
> Black will even win, and 3. f4 Qc2 4. g4 b4 5. Nh5+ Kh7 6. R1d7 Qc1+
> 7. Kg2 Rxd8 8. Rxd8 Qc2+ is a draw only, because the white king
> is too exposed.

D'oh!

Back to the drawing board for me.

-Ron

Date: 07 Jan 2005 18:39:30
From: Dc Gentle
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

*hmmm*

Besides Ron, I wonder whether other readers have glanced
at this position.. Currently I am trying to comment my solution
and noticed quite some complications, but I am sure that
these won't rescue Black in the end. Although this is not
a composed study, I think I can show that only one move
will win.

For sure this position is hard, one indicator is that computers
regard this as a draw even after long pondering. Computers
have no clue here, which is generally rare today. Nevertheless
I sometimes experienced the horizon effect spoiling things..
Even long computation periods won't prevent the box coming
up with the wrong move... somehow disappointing. To me this
is another evidence that computer programs don't play
chess, they only simulate it.

I'll present my solution next week, I guess.
In the meanwhile I take your guesses for move 1.

Have fun,
DC

Date: 07 Jan 2005 10:29:16
From: Ron
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

In article <[email protected] >,
"Dc Gentle" <[email protected] > wrote:

> I'll present my solution next week, I guess.
> In the meanwhile I take your guesses for move 1.

I haven't had time to take much more of a look at it yet, though I'm
planning to.

Date: 08 Jan 2005 01:00:47
From: Doctor SBD
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

I am anxious to see what is presented, as I just cannot get out of my mind that
this can be a win for white... I just keep staring at it, and going "Huh?". :)

SBD

Date: 12 Jan 2005 21:15:04
From: Dc Gentle
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

Finally the commentary of my solution is finished.
Comments are welcome.

Enjoy,
DC

[Event "White to move and win"]
[Date "2005.11.01"]
[Round "?"]
[White "DcGentle"]
[Black "DcGentle"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B21"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. Be2
d6 7. O-O Nf6 8. Qb3 a6 9. Rd1 Qc7 10. Bf4 Be7 11. Qa3 e5
12. Bg5 d5 13. Bxf6 Bxa3 14. Nxd5 Qa5 15. Bxg7 Bxb2
16. Rab1 Bd4 17. Nf6+ Ke7 18. Bxh8 Qxa2 19. Nxd4 exd4
20. Bd3 b5 21. Nd5+ Kf8 22. Ra1 Qb3 23. Nf4 Bb7 24. e5 h6
{losing the game, 24... Re8 was called for.}
25. Bf6 Ne7 26. Nh5 Nd5 27. Bg7+ Kg8 28. Be4 Qc4
29. Bxh6 d3 30. Bxd5 Bxd5 31. Rac1 Qh4 32. Nf6+ Kh8
33. Rxd3 Qxh6 34. Rcd1 Bc6 35. Rc3 Qh4 36. Rxc6 Qa4

{Let's evaluate this position briefly. Materialwise it's about
equal, although the queen is a bit weaker than the two white
rooks, because a queen alone can't capture a protected piece, the
rooks can. The pawn structure makes the difference here, while
White has to fear the power of the black passed pawns on the
queenside, Black can attack the unprotected white pawn on e6. The
white kingside pawns are all on the start position, well
protected by the king but also preventing the white rook d1 from
leaving the base line due to the mate threat of queen a4. White's
biggest plus is the knight on f6. This protected outpost position
gives the knight the strength of the rook if you consider that
squares like b8, h7, g4, and e4 would be nice to place a white
rook on. Furthermore White has a hidden resource, pawn h2. This
passed pawn is like a concealed weapon that can be loaded (moving
it to h4), unlocked (to h5) and fired (to h6). Black's biggest
weakness is the unprotected pawn f7. This is the last remnant of
the black kingside offering hardly any cover for the black king.
So what could be the long-termed plan for both sides? It's easy for
Black: Harass the rooks and advance the passed pawns, attack e6.
White's plan is clear also, but harder to realize. Components
are: Control the opposite passed pawns, protect e6, make a hole
for the king (maybe using pawn h2), increase the pressure by
moving the rooks to more promising positions. Good would be
doubling the rooks on the 3rd file or 7th rank targeting f7.
Because rook d1 is under attack, moving it to e1 protecting e6
and preparing rook e1-e3 or rook e1-e4 looks like an option. But
first let's look at the alternatives.}

37. Re1

(37. Rcd6 {first alternative, covers d1 but after}
37...Rc8 {(forced)}
38. g3 Kg7 39. R1d4 Rc4 {White has not more than a draw.}
)

(37. Rdc1
{second alternative, looks ok, but Black can enforce a draw:}
37...Rd8 38. g3 Rd1+ 39. Kg2 Rxc1 40. Rxc1 Kg7
{to evade a possible rook check.}
41. Rc8 Kg6 42. g4
{Now the black king can't escape via f5.}
42...Kg5 43. Rh8 Qc2 44. h4+ Kf4 45. Rh5 Qc6+
{draw because the white king is too exposed.}
)

(37. Rcc1
{third and last alternative, prevents rook a8 from occupying an open
file but also adandons the 6th rank. The latter is worse than the
former, because now a white rook can't move behind pawn b5.}
37...b4
{this pawn is hard to stop now.}
38. Rd3 b3 39. Rh3+
(39. Rb1 {is worse:}
39...b2 40. h3 Rc8 41. Kh2 Qc2
(41...Rc1 {would be bad because of} 42. Rd8+ {+-})
42. Rdd1 Qxf2
{-+ (Black threatens 43... Qf4+ 44. Kh1 Rc1 45. Rg1 Rxb1
46. Rxb1 Qc1+)}
)
39...Kg7 40. Rg3+ Kh8
{is not more than a draw, because Black threatens b2 and Qa1
winning the rook, but he can't escape the checks due to 41 Rh3+
Kg7 42. Rg3+ Kf8 43. Rg8+ -+}
)

37...b4
{appears to be the strongest answer, abiding the rule that the
most advanced passed pawn should be moved first and attacking
rook c6 at the same time. Let's first look at the alternatives
again.}

(37...a5
{first alternative, is weak because the queen is barred from
own territory.}
38. g3 b4 39. Rc4
{threatening 40. Rh4+ Kg7 41. Rg4+ Kf8 (41... Kh6 is not
better) 42. Rg8 winning Ra8.}
39...Rd8 40. Ree4 Kg7 41. Rg4+ Kh6 42. Rc5 Rd4
43. Rg8
{threatening 43. g4 followed by g5 check mate.}
43...Qd1+ 44. Kg2 Rd8 45. Rg4 Rd4 46. e6 Rxg4 47. e7
{and wins because Black can prevent the creation of a
new queen by losing material only.}
)

(37...Qb4
{second alternative with the threat 38... Qxe1#, but also
blocking b5.}
38. Rec1 Kg7 {to avoid a rook check from c8.}
39. h4 {enables 40. R1c3.}
39...Rd8 40. R1c3 Kf8 {disabling a rook check from g3.}
41. g3 Qd4
(41...Qe7 42. R3c5 {with the threat 43. h5.}
42...b4 43. Rc7 Qe6 44. Kg2 b3 45. Rb7 a5 46. Nh7+
Kg8 47. Ng5 Qe8 48. Rxb3 {+-}
)
42. Kg2 b4 (42...Kg7 43. h5 {+- (see below)})
(42...Qxe5 43. h5 b4 44. R3c5 {+- (see below)})
43. R3c4 Qxe5 44. Rxb4 Qe7 45. Rcb6
{In the following the strategy of White is keeping off the
queen from the diagonal a8-h1.}
45...Qa7 46. Rb7 Qc5
(46...Qa8 47. Kh2
{with the threat 48. Rb8 Rxb8 49. Rxb8+ Qxb8 50. Nd7+}
)
47. R7b6 a5 48. R4b5 Qc7 49. h5
{already threatening h6. This pawn will decide the day.}
49...Kg7 50. h6+ {The concealed weapon fires!}
50...Kh8 51. Ra6 {with the threat 52. h7 Rd6 53. Ne8}
51...a4 {This pawn doesn't run away.}
52. Rb4 Rd6 53. Rg4 Rxf6 54. Rxf6 Qa5 55. h7
{threatening 56. Rh6.}
55...Kxh7 56. Rxf7+ Kh6 57. Re4 {Black is lost, for example:}
57...a3 58. Re6+ Kg5 59. f4+ Kg4 60. Rg7+ Kf5 61. Rg5+
{winning the queen.}
)

(37...Rd8
{third alternative, activating the rook is a good choice.}
38. g3 {38. h4 would win also.}
38...Kg7
(38...Rd1 {is not a draw now:}
39. Rc8+ Kg7 40. Rg8+ Kh6 41. Rxd1 Qxd1+ 42. Kg2
Qa1 43. h4 Qxe5 44. Ng4+ {winning the queen.}
)
(38...b4 39. Rd6 {threatening 40. Rxd8+ with fast mate.}
39...Qa5
(39...Rxd6 {is worse:}
40. exd6 Kg7 41. d7 Qa5 42. Nh5+
{wins because of the threat 43. Re8.}
)
40. Red1 Rxd6
(40...Rb8 41. R1d4 b3 42. Rh4+ Kg7 43. Rg4+ Kh8
44. Rd5 Qe1+
(44...Qxd5 {giving the queen away, but in vain:}
45. Nxd5 b2 46. Nc3 b1=Q+ 47. Nxb1 Rxb1+
48. Kg2 {and White has no problems to win.}
)
45. Kg2 Qe2 46. Re4 Qc2 47. Rh4+ Kg7 48. Rg4+
Kh6 49. Rd6
{wins due to the threat 50. Ne8+ with fast mate
or loss of the queen.}
)
41. exd6 Qd8 (41...b3 42. d7{+-})
42. d7 b3 43. Ne4 Kg7 44. Nc5 b2 45. Rb1 Qf6 46. h4
Qd6 47. Rxb2 {and Black is lost.}
)
39. Kg2 b4
(39...Qb4 {attacking rook e1 won't help:}
40. Re3 Qe7 41. Nh5+ Kh7
(41...Kg8 42. Rf6 {idea: doubling rooks on the 3rd file.}
42...Qb7+ 43. Ref3 Re8 {against e6.}
44. Rd6 {threatening 45. Nf6+ and 45. Rd7.}
44...Rf8 (44...Re6 45. Rd8+ Kh7 46. Rf8 {+-})
45. Nf6+ Kg7 46. e6 {threatening 47. Nd7 Qc7 48. Rxa6.}
46...Qe7 47. Rd5 Qxe6 48. Rg5+ Kh6 49. Rff5 Rc8
50. Ng4+ Kh7 51. Rf6 Qe4+ 52. Kh3 Rc6 53. Rxf7+
Kh8 54. Rf8+ Kh7 55. Rgf5 b4 56. R5f7+ Kg6
57. Ra7 b3 58. f4 b2 59. Kh4 b1=Q
{Two black queens, but too late:}
60. f5+ Qxf5 61. Rg8#)
42. Rf6 Qb7+ 43. Ref3 Rd7 44. Rf4
{threatening a knight fork.}
44...Kh6 45. g4 b4 46. Rf6+ Kh7 47. g5
{the main threat is 48. e6 fxe6 49. Rh6+ and Black can't
defend really.}
47...b3 48. e6 fxe6 49. Rh6+ Kg8 50. Nf6+ Kf8
51. Nxd7+ Ke7 52. Nc5 Qd5 53. Rxe6+ Kd8 54. Rd6+
Qxd6 55. Nb7+ {winning the queen.}
)
40. Rc4 a5 41. Ree4 Kg6 {in order to escape via f5.}
(41...Qb5 {wont' help:}
42. Rg4+ Kh6 43. Rc7 Rf8 (43...Rd1 44. Kh3 {+-})
44. e6 b3 45. e7 Re8 46. Nxe8 Qxe8 47. Rd4
{with the threat 48. Rd8.}
47...b2 48. Rd6+ Kg7 49. Rb6 a4 50. Rxb2
{wins.}
)
42. Rc5 Qa1 43. Rg4+ Kf5 44. Rf4+ Ke6 45. Ne4 Rd5
{threatening 46. Ng5+ Ke7 47. Rxf7+.}
46. Ng5+ Kxe5 47. Rc6 {with the threat 48. Nxf7#.}
47...Rd7 48. Ra6
{threatening 49. Nf3+ Kd5 50. Rxa5+ Qxa5 51. Rf5+ winning
the queen.}
48...a4 49. Rxb4 a3 50. Rb3 a2 (50...Qd1 51. Rbxa3 {+-})
51. Nf3+ Ke4 52. Ra5 Rd5 53. Rb4+ Kf5 54. Rxd5+
{wins.}
)

(37...Qa5 {fourth alternative, attacking Re1 looks strong, but...}
38. Rec1 {is already threatening 39. Rc8+}
38...Kg7
(38...Rd8 39. g3
{is a good choice because the white king will be well
protected on g2 with Nf6 covering the central fields d5 and e4.
Other fields of the diagonal a8-h1 can be covered by white rooks,
so that the black queen can't deliver a check so easily.}
39...Kg7
(39...Rd2 {the idea Qa2 fails:}
40. Rc8+ Kg7 41. Rg8+ Kh6 42. g4 Rd1+ 43. Rxd1
Qe1+ 44. Rxe1 b4 45. g5#)
(39...Qd2
{the idea Qe2 attacking e5 and clearing d2 for the
black rook fails also:}
40. e6 fxe6 41. Rc7 Qh6 42. Rh7+ Qxh7 43. Nxh7
Kxh7 44. Rc6 b4 45. Rxa6 Rb8 46. Ra2
{and the black pawns are no danger anymore.}
)
40. Kg2 Qa4
(40...Qd2 41. h4 Qe2 42. R1c3
{42... Rd2 would be countered by 43. Rf3}
42...Qxe5 43. R3c5 Qb8 44. Kh2
{in order to avoid a pin of the rook by 45... Qa8.}
44...a5 45. Rg5+ Kf8 46. h5 Qa7 47. Nh7+ Ke7
48. Re5+ Kd7 49. Rcc5 Qa6 (49...Qb6 50. Rf5 {+-})
50. Rf5 Rh8 51. Rxf7+ Ke8 52. Rcc7 Kd8 53. Rfd7+
Ke8 54. g4
{White's kingside pawns are much more dangerous than
Black's queenside pawns.}
54...Qe6 55. g5 Qe5+ 56. Kg2 Rg8 57. Kf1 Qa1+
58. Ke2 Qe5+ 59. Kd1
{and Black will lose material because of the threat
60. Nf6+.}
)
41. h4 Qd4 42. h5 {The concealed weapon is unlocked.}
42...Rh8
(42...a5 43. g4 a4
(43...Qxe5 44. h6+ {fires!}
44...Kxh6 45. Nd7+ {winning the queen.}
)
(43...Qd3 44. R1c3 Qd4 45. g5 Qxe5 46. h6+ {+-})
44. h6+ {fires again.}
44...Kxh6 45. Rh1+ Kg6 46. Rh5
{threatening 47. Ne8+ with fast mate.}
46...Kg7 47. Rg5+ Kh6 48. Kg3
{and the threat 49. Nh5+ Kxg5 50. f4+ is too strong.}
)
(42...Qxe5 43. h6+ {wins.}
)
43. R1c5 Rd8 44. g4 Qd1
(44...Qa1 45. h6+ Kxh6 46. e6 Rd1 47. Ne4
{and the threats 48. e7+ and 48. Kg3 are too strong.}
)
(44...b4 45. g5 b3 46. h6+ Kg6 47. Rc4 Qd1 48. Rc1
Qd4 49. Ne4+ Kf5 50. R1c4 Qd3 51. f4
{threatening 52. Rf6+ Kg4 53. Nf2+ winning the queen.}
51...Qxe4+
(51...b2 {is not better:}
52. Rf6+ Kg4 53. Nf2+ Kh4 54. Nxd3 b1=Q 55. Nf2
Qb7+ 56. Rcc6 Rd2 57. h7 {wins.}
)
52. Rxe4 Kxe4 53. h7 Rb8 54. Rc4+ Kd5 55. Rc1 b2
56. Rb1 {winning.}
)
45. Rc8 b4 (45...Rxc8 46. Rxc8 {+-})
46. g5 Qd2 47. h6+ Kg6 48. Ne4 Qd3 49. R8c6+ Kh5
50. Ng3+ Kg4 51. Rf6 {threatening 52. e6 and 52. g6}
51...Kxg5 52. Kh3 Rd4 53. Rxf7 Rc4
(53...Rh4+ 54. Kg2 Rg4 55. Rg7+ Kf4 56. e6
{winning by the main threat 57. Rf7+ Qf5 58. Rfxf5#.}
)
54. Rxc4 Qxc4 55. h7 Qh4+ 56. Kg2 Kg6 57. Rg7+ Kxg7
58. Nf5+ {winning the queen.}
)
39. g3 Qd2 40. R1c5 Qe2
(40...Rd8 41. Kg2 Qa2 42. Nh5+ Kf8 43. Rf6 Re8 44. h4
Re6 45. Rf3 Re8 (45...Rh6 46. Rc8+ {+-})
46. Nf6 Rd8 47. Rf4 {with the threat 48. Rc7 Qe6 49. Rg4.}
47...b4 48. Rc7 Qe6 49. Rg4
{and Black must give the queen in order to prevent check
mate.}
)
41. Rd5 Qf3 {intends to reach e6 via f5.}
42. Rc7 Qf5 43. Kg2 {preparing h4.}
43...Rh8 44. h4 Qe6 45. Rdd7 b4 46. Re7 Qb3
(46...Qa2 {will join the above line by move reorder:}
47. Ne4 Rf8 48. e6 Qd5 49. f3 {see below.}
)
47. Ne4 Rf8 48. e6 Qd5 49. f3 b3 50. g4 b2 51. Rxf7+
Rxf7 52. Rxf7+ Kh8 53. Rf8+ Kg7 54. e7 b1=Q 55. e8=Q
{With 2 black queens on the board the white threat 56. Qe7+
Qf7 57. Qxf7+ Kh6 58. Rh8# prevails nevertheless.}
55...Qba2+ 56. Kg3 Qe6 57. h5 {threatening 58. h6 with mate in 3.}
57...Qxe8 58. Rxe8 a5 59. g5
{threatening 60. Rd8 Qe6 61. h6+ Kh7 62. Rd7+ Kh8 63. Nf6
Qe1+ 64. Kg4 Qg1+ 65. Kf5 Qc5+ 66. Kg6 Qc2+ 67. Kf7 Qc4+ 68. Ke8
Qc8+ 69. Rd8 Qc6+ 70. Kf7+ winning}
)

38. Rb6 Kg7 {continuation of the main variant.}

(38...b3 39. Rb1 {pawn b3 is doomed now.}
39...Qd4 40. Rb7 b2
(40...Qxe5 {would be fatal due to}
41. Rxf7
{and check mate can only be prevented by losing material.}
)
41. g3 (41. Rxf7 {?} 41...Qd3
{-+ because White will lose both rooks for nothing.}
)
41...Kg7 42. R7xb2 Qxe5 43. Rb6 a5 44. R1b5 Qd4 45. h4
Kf8
(45...Qxf6 {won't help:}
46. Rxf6 Kxf6 47. Rb3 a4 48. Ra3 {and the a-pawn is stopped.}
)
46. Kg2 Ke7 47. Rc6 Qa7 48. Re5+ Kf8 49. Rd6
{with the threat 50. Nd7+}
49...Qb7+ 50. Kh2 a4 51. Nd7+ Kg8 52. Rg5+ Kh7
53. Nf6+ Kh8 54. Nh5 Qa6
(54...Kh7 55. Rg7+ Kh8 56. Rh6#)
55. Rxa6 Rxa6 56. Rb5 a3 57. Rb1
{and the a-pawn is stopped again.}
)

39. h3 Qa5

(39...a5 40. Kh2 Kf8 41. Re3 Qa1 42. Rb7 Rd8 43. Nh7+
Kg8 44. Ng5 Rf8 45. f4 Qd4 46. Rg3 Qxf4 47. e6 a4
48. Nxf7+ Kh7 49. Rb5 Qh4 50. Rg4
{and Black has to give the queen in order to prevent a fast
check mate.}
)

40. Rb7 Rd8

(40...b3 41. Re4 b2 42. Kh2 Qa2 43. Rg4+ Kh8 44. Rgb4
Qe6 45. Ng4 Rg8 46. Rxb2 {+-}
)
(40...Kg6 41. Re4 Rd8 42. Rbxb4 Qc5 43. Kh2 Qxf2
44. Rb3 Qd2 45. Rf3 Rd4 46. e6
{and the threats 47. e7 and 47. exf7 are too strong.}
)
(40...Rc8 41. Re4 Kg6 42. Rbxb4 Rd8 43. Kh2 Qc7
44. Rbc4 Qa5 45. Re3 Kg7 46. Rf4 Kf8 47. e6 fxe6
48. Rxe6 {wins easily.}
)

41. Re3 Kg6 42. Kh2 Qc5 43. Nd7
{barring the rook from the center and preparing e6.}

43...Qd4

(43...Rxd7 44. Rxd7 Qc8 45. Re7 Qf8 46. Ra7 Qb8
47. Rxa6+ Kg7 48. Ra2 {and pawn b4 is stopped.}
)

44. e6 f6 45. Rf3 a5 46. g3

(46. Rxf6+ Qxf6 47. Nxf6 Kxf6 48. Ra7
{would most likely win also.}
)

46...Re8

(46...f5 47. Rb5 Rxd7 48. exd7 Qxd7 49. Rxa5 Qc6 50. Rf4
b3 51. Rb4 {+- because pawn b3 is stopped.}
)
(46...Rc8 47. Rf4 Qb2 48. h4 f5 49. h5+ Kg5 50. Rb5 Qc2
51. e7 Re8 52. Rb6 Rxe7 53. Nf8
{threatening 54. Rg6+ Kxh5 2. Rh4#}
53...Rg7 54. h6 Rg8 55. Nh7+ Kh5 56. Rh4#)

47. Rf4 Qc3 48. g4 Rh8 49. Rxf6+ Kg5

(49...Qxf6 {won't rescue Black:}
50. Nxf6 Kxf6 51. e7 Re8 52. f4 Rxe7 53. g5+ Kf7 54. Rb5
{and the white passed pawns are faster.}
)

50. Rf5+ Kh4 51. Nf6
{threatening 52. Rbb5 with fast check mate.}

51...Qxh3+ 52. Kg1 b3 53. Rbb5 Qd3

(53...Qxg4+ 54. Nxg4 Rf8 55. Nf6 {with fast check mate also.})

54. Rh5+ Rxh5 55. Rxh5# 1-0

Date: 15 Jan 2005 11:04:56
From: Few Good Chessmen
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

"Dc Gentle" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Finally the commentary of my solution is finished.
> Comments are welcome.
<snip >

Interesting main variations for White after 37. Re1. But shouldn't Black
consider also 37. ... Rg8? I'd like your opinion on this.

Date: 15 Jan 2005 15:59:54
From: Dc Gentle
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

"Few Good Chessmen" wrote:

> Interesting main variations for White after 37. Re1. But shouldn't Black
> consider also 37. ... Rg8? I'd like your opinion on this.
>

Ok, here there it is.
Thanks for the response.
In my opinion the original position was rewarding to analyse,
at least I had a lot of fun. I hope you too....
What do you think, Ron?

Greetings,
DC

[Event "White to move and win"]
[Site "Home"]
[Date "2005.01.15"]
[Round "-"]
[White "DC Gentle"]
[Black "DC Gentle"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r6k/5p2/p1R2N2/1p2P3/q7/8/5PPP/3R2K1 w - - 0 37"]

{--------------
r . . . . . . k
. . . . . p . .
p . R . . N . .
. p . . P . . .
q . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . P P P
. . . R . . K .
white to play
--------------}
37. Re1 Rg8
{White has got several options here, the best one is}
38. e6
(38. Nxg8
{is also possible.}
38...Qa5
{attacking Re1 and preventing Rc6 from moving to b6.}
39. Rd1 Kxg8 40. g3
{and White is on the road to victory, because the black
passed pawns are too slow.}
)
38...fxe6 39. Rc7 {threatening check mate on h7.}
39...Qh4 {forced.}
40. Nxg8 Kxg8 41. Rd1 {again threatening mate.}
41...Qf6
{forced, because White threatens Rdd7 and mate by Rc8 or Rd8.
Now the queen can prevent this by Qf8.}
42. h4
{in order to free the rook from the base line.}
42...e5 43. Rdd7 Qf8 44. h5
{this pawn will win the day again, like in lines examined earlier.}
44...b4 45. Rh7 b3 46. h6 b2 47. Rcg7+ Qxg7 48. Rxg7+ Kh8
49. Rb7
{winning easily, because h6 can not be captured even..}
49...b1=Q+ 50. Rxb1 Kh7 51. Rb6 1-0

Date: 16 Jan 2005 08:27:15
From: Few Good Chessmen
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

"Dc Gentle" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Few Good Chessmen" wrote:
>
> > Interesting main variations for White after 37. Re1. But shouldn't Black
> > consider also 37. ... Rg8? I'd like your opinion on this.
> >
>
> Ok, here there it is.
> Thanks for the response.
> In my opinion the original position was rewarding to analyse,
> at least I had a lot of fun. I hope you too....
> What do you think, Ron?
>
> Greetings,
> DC
>
> [Event "White to move and win"]
> [Site "Home"]
> [Date "2005.01.15"]
> [Round "-"]
> [White "DC Gentle"]
> [Black "DC Gentle"]
> [Result "1-0"]
> [SetUp "1"]
> [FEN "r6k/5p2/p1R2N2/1p2P3/q7/8/5PPP/3R2K1 w - - 0 37"]
>
> {--------------
> r . . . . . . k
> . . . . . p . .
> p . R . . N . .
> . p . . P . . .
> q . . . . . . .
> . . . . . . . .
> . . . . . P P P
> . . . R . . K .
> white to play
> --------------}
> 37. Re1 Rg8
> {White has got several options here, the best one is}
> 38. e6
> (38. Nxg8
> {is also possible.}
> 38...Qa5
> {attacking Re1 and preventing Rc6 from moving to b6.}
> 39. Rd1 Kxg8 40. g3
> {and White is on the road to victory, because the black
> passed pawns are too slow.}
> )

For 38. Ng8 Kg8 not considered? However 38. ... Qb4 if Black is to attack
e1-Rook and still have the Kingside under her guard. Rc6-Rb6 disconnect the
cooperation between White Rooks pair (instant e1-Rook to back ranks is
blocked by e-Pawn).

> 38...fxe6 39. Rc7 {threatening check mate on h7.}

38. e6 Qb4 threatening 39. ... Qe1 not considered?

Date: 16 Jan 2005 17:34:49
From: Dc Gentle
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

Black can't reach anything by 37... Rg8.

If you don't agree, show me a line where Black
can reach a draw or more.

"Few Good Chessmen" wrote :
>
> 38. e6 Qb4 threatening 39. ... Qe1 not considered?

38... Qb4? 39. Kf1 Rxg2? 40. Re4 attacking the queen
and after 40... Rxf2+ 41. Kxf2 the black queen alone can't
do any harm and the white king will find a place to hide
from checks.

Kind regards,
DC

Date: 17 Jan 2005 07:25:38
From: Few Good Chessmen
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

"Dc Gentle" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Black can't reach anything by 37... Rg8.
>
> If you don't agree, show me a line where Black
> can reach a draw or more.
>
> "Few Good Chessmen" wrote :
> >
> > 38. e6 Qb4 threatening 39. ... Qe1 not considered?
>
> 38... Qb4? 39. Kf1 Rxg2? 40. Re4 attacking the queen
> and after 40... Rxf2+ 41. Kxf2 the black queen alone can't
> do any harm and the white king will find a place to hide
> from checks.

41. ... Qb2 threatening 42. ... Qf6 not considered?

Date: 17 Jan 2005 16:43:32
From: Dc Gentle
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

"Few Good Chessmen" wrote:

> 41. ... Qb2 threatening 42. ... Qf6 not considered?
>

It has been considered and will only lead to a fast defeat of Black.
I don't think it makes sense to discuss the bad move 37. ... Rg8?
any further.

Kind regards,
DC

Date: 09 Feb 2005 06:29:55
From: Doctor SBD
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

What about the 20 or so moves leading up to 38... Rg8? As I looked through the
game, it seemed that black was making logical, but second-or third best moves
throughout the game that slowly diminished his advantage and even threw it
away. It was over such a long time period that many wouldn't notice it - just
as in a game they can't figure out why they lost.

My view is that you very cleverly did this on purpose.

SBD

Date: 09 Feb 2005 10:22:37
From: Dc Gentle
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

"Doctor SBD" wrote:

> What about the 20 or so moves leading up to 38... Rg8?

Well, Black can surely do better in the game before
move 36... Qa4, no doubt about it, and in this variant
the positional queen sac can be refuted.
(See my commentary regarding move 24.)

On the other hand White can do better as well,
so you can consider this variant as one of the many
lines of my analysis laboratory.

>
> My view is that you very cleverly did this on purpose.
>

Sorry, if you think this line should proof anything I
must disappoint you. The only purpose was to show
the moves leading up to this fascinating position after
36... Qa4

Kind regards,
DC

Date: 18 Jan 2005 07:32:37
From: Few Good Chessmen
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

"Dc Gentle" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Few Good Chessmen" wrote:
>
> > 41. ... Qb2 threatening 42. ... Qf6 not considered?
> >
>
> It has been considered and will only lead to a fast defeat of Black.
> I don't think it makes sense to discuss the bad move 37. ... Rg8?
> any further.

How fast if possible? Pretty good for Black so far...both White Rooks are
numbed, disarrayed the Pawns, White King in panic, Knight exchanged. All
because of 37. ... Rg8?

Date: 03 Jan 2005 18:36:50
From: Few Good Chessmen
Subject: Re: White to move and win?

"Ron" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Dc Gentle" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > r6k/5p2/p1R2N2/1p2P3/q7/8/5PPP/3R2K1 w - - 0 37
> >
> > Control:
> > White: Kg1, Rd1, Rc6, Nf6, Pe5, f2, g2, h2 (8)
> > Black: Kh8, Qa4, Ra8, Pa6, b5, f7 (6)
>
>
> 1. Rcd6 Rc8 2. Rd8+ Rxd8 3. Rxd8+ Kg7 4. Rg8+ Kh6 5. g4 Qd1+ 6. Kg2 Qc1
> 7. h4 Qc6+ 8. f3 and the threat of 9.g5 mate gives black nothing better
> than Qxf6, when the rook easily stops the passed pawns.
>
> That being said, I'm not absolutely convinced by this because 1. ...
> Rc8, while being the move you gave, seems a little convenient from
> white's point of view. I don't see why black would move his rook away
> from the protection of his passed pawn.

Planning Ra8-Rc8-Rc5-Re5 since a4-Queen is guarding the Passed Pawns (no
immediate threat from any White Rook).

>
> 1.Rcd6 a5 is a more logical move, the sort I'd expect to see over the
> board by a player who didn't see white's play coming. 1....Rf8 looks
> like a better attempt, but actually fails: 2.Rd8 Kg7 3.Rxf8 Kxf8 looks
> like it escapes, but doesn't because 4.Rd8+ Ke7?? Re8 mate so black has
> to play 4....Kg7 5.Rg8+ etc.
>
> But what about 1.Rcd6 Qh4!?
>
> The point is that after:
>
> 1. Rcd6 Qh4 2. Rd8+ Rxd8 3. Rxd8+ Kg7 4. Rg8+ Kh6 5. Rh8+ Kg5 6. Rxh4
> Kxh4 can the knight stop the passed pawns? I think the answer is yes:
> 7.Nd5 a5 8.Kf1 b4 (8. ... Kg5 9. Ke2 Kf5 10.Ne7! when Nc6 will stop or
> win the passed pawns) 9.Ke2 Kg5 10.Kf5 Nb6!
>
> I'm hardly the strongest player on this newsgroup, but this whole
> strategy (trade rooks, get the black king to h6, and mate with a g5 pawn
> push) looks pretty solid to me.
>
> What this your idea?

The strategy does not look solid against 1. Rcd6 Rc8 2. Rd8 Kg7.