What would Kasparov do in my position?

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Date: 25 Aug 2005 18:23:04
From:
Subject: What would Kasparov do in my position?

Bs'd

I think the answer is simple: He would never end up in a rotten
position like the one I found myself in the other day on Yahoo chess.

Therefore I want to ask the chess community here for advice what should
have been played for my 22th move here:

Yahoo game 22/8/05
Cpsr1982 elo 1499 playing white against Eliyahu with black:

1.d2-d4 e7-e5
2.d5-d6 g8-f6
3.c2-c4 f8-c5
4.h2-h3 d7-d6
5.b1-c3 a7-a6
6.c1-g5 h7-h6
7.g5-h4 c8-f5
8.f2-f3 b8-d7
9.g2-g4 f5-h7
10. e2-e4 g7-g5
11. h4-g3 d8-e7
12. h3-h4 g5xh4
13. g3xh4 e7-f8
14. d1-d2 f8-g7
15. 0-0-0 b7-b5
16. b2-b3 b5xc4
17. f1xc4 d7-b6
18. c4-d3 a6-a5
19. c3-b5 e8-d7
20. d3-f1 h8-b8
21. a2-a4 b5-c8
22. f1-h3

Any suggestions?

Eliyahu

Date: 29 Aug 2005 10:51:11
From:
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

Bs'd

>> 26. Qg5 threatens Qd8 mate.

Fortunately he didn't see that one.....

Eliyahu

Date: 27 Aug 2005 12:39:06
From:
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

Bs'd

> Yes, a nice combination but not so difficult to guess. And white should
have played 26. Kb2 ;-)

If white would have played 26. Kb2, I would have taken the rook on h1,
and I would have had decisive material advantage.

Whatever white would have done, I would have come out on top
materially. (I think)

Eliyahu

Date: 27 Aug 2005 23:00:05
From: Jerzy
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

>> Yes, a nice combination but not so difficult to guess. And white should
> have played 26. Kb2 ;-)
>
> If white would have played 26. Kb2, I would have taken the rook on h1,
> and I would have had decisive material advantage.
>
> Whatever white would have done, I would have come out on top
> materially. (I think)

Not so fast Eli : 26. Kb2 Bxh1 27. Nxc7+ Kf8 28. Nxa8 Rxa8 29. Qg5 ;-)

Date: 27 Aug 2005 22:57:50
From: Jerzy
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

Date: 27 Aug 2005 10:20:19
From:
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

Bs'd

> > I don't see it because after 22...Nxe4 23. fxe4 Bxe4 24. g5+ Ke8 25.
gxh6 Black looks pretty lost.

That's exactly what my opponent played, and I came out on top:

22. ........ f6xe4
23. f3xe4 h7xe4
24. g4-g5+ d7-e8
25. g5xh6 g7-h7
Here white has to take care of his rook which is under attack by the
bishop, and that is what he did:
26. h1-h2 b8xb5
27. a4xb5 c5-a3+
28. d2-b2 a3xb2+
29. c1-b2 h7xh6
30. d1-c1 h6-f4
31. h2-e2 f4xh4
32. c1xc7 f7-f5
33. c7-g7 c8-e7
34. b2-a3 e4xd5
35. e2-e3 h4-b4+
36. a3-a2 b4-d2+

White resigned.

>> Black could have won as early as in the 4th move where 4...Bxf2+ 5. Kxf2
Ne4+ 6. Ke3 Qh4 with numerous threats was possible.

This is a very interesting one, I have to take a closer look at that
one.
But I don't know if numerous threats are enough compensation for being
a piece down.

Eliyahu

Date: 31 Aug 2005 12:08:51
From: James
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

<[email protected] > a �crit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
>>> Black could have won as early as in the 4th move where 4...Bxf2+ 5. Kxf2
> Ne4+ 6. Ke3 Qh4 with numerous threats was possible.
>
> This is a very interesting one, I have to take a closer look at that
> one.
> But I don't know if numerous threats are enough compensation for being
> a piece down.
>
> Eliyahu
>

For those interested, white can expect no better in the end than losing a
rook and winning a bishop, i.e. being one quality down, and not a piece
up...
No way out.

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]

[Date "2005.08.31"]

[Round "?"]

[White "Analysis"]

[Black "?"]

[Result "0-1"]

[ECO "A40"]

[Annotator "Shredder 9"]

[SetUp "1"]

[FEN "rnbqk2r/pppp1ppp/5n2/2bPp3/2P5/7P/PP2PPP1/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - 0 4"]

[PlyCount "19"]

{Shredder 9:} 4... Bxf2+ 5. Kxf2 Ne4+ 6. Ke3 (6. Kf3 Qh4 7. Bg5 (7. Qd2 Qg3+
8.

Kxe4 f5+ 9. Kxf5 d6+ 10. Ke4 Bf5+ 11. Kxf5 Qg6#) (7. g4 f5 8. gxf5 d6 9. Ke3
(

9. Qd3 Qf2+ 10. Kxe4 Bxf5#) 9... Bxf5 10. Kd3 (10. Qa4+ b5 11. Qxb5+ c6 {

Mate in 8}) 10... Nf2+ 11. Kd2 Qd4+ 12. Ke1 Qxd1+ 13. Kxf2 Qxc1 {-20}) 7...

Nxg5+ 8. Ke3 Ne4 9. g4 f5 10. Nf3 Qh6+ 11. g5 Qb6+ 12. Nd4 Nxg5 {-7}) (6.
Ke1

Qh4+ 7. g3 Qxg3#) 6... Qh4 7. g4 (7. Qc2 Qf2+ 8. Kxe4 f5+ 9. Kd3 Qd4#) (7.
Nc3

Nf2 8. Nf3 Nxd1+ {-6}) (7. g3 Qxg3+ 8. Kxe4 f5+ 9. Kxf5 d6+ 10. Ke4 Bf5+ 11.

Kxf5 Qg6#) 7... Nf2 8. Qe1 Qg3+ 9. Nf3 Nxh1 10. Qxg3 Nxg3 11. Bg2 f5 12.
Nxe5

fxg4 13. Nxg4 O-O {-3} 0-1

Date: 28 Aug 2005 03:35:31
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Claus-J=FCrgen_Heigl?=
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

[email protected] wrote:
>>>I don't see it because after 22...Nxe4 23. fxe4 Bxe4 24. g5+ Ke8 25.
>
> gxh6 Black looks pretty lost.
>
> That's exactly what my opponent played, and I came out on top:
>
> 22. ........ f6xe4
> 23. f3xe4 h7xe4
> 24. g4-g5+ d7-e8
> 25. g5xh6 g7-h7
> Here white has to take care of his rook which is under attack by the
> bishop, and that is what he did:
> 26. h1-h2

Well, this is a decisive mistake, as it loses precious time. If White
continues with his attack, Black is dead.

26. Qg5 threatens Qd8 mate. Black's best defense is 26...Be3+ 27. Qxe3
but now Black again has to deal with Qg5, so no time for Bxh1. But after
27...f6 (27...Qg6 28. h7 Qxh7 29. Qg5) 28. Nf3 White is safe, two pieces
up and will continue his attack on the g-file.

Claus-Juergen

Date: 27 Aug 2005 10:03:33
From:
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

Bs'd

>> Eli, after many mistakes on both sides the final one was made by your
opponent so 22. ... Nxe4 23. fe Bxe4 followed by Rxb5 and Ba3+ is
nothing
special for majority of intermediate players.

Be that as it may, for me it is a very nice combination.

I played this when Yahoo had a bug, and didn't sent the game to my
email, so I had to type it out by hand, that's why the typo's.

Eliyahu

Date: 27 Aug 2005 20:22:29
From: Jerzy
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

>>> Eli, after many mistakes on both sides the final one was made by your
> opponent so 22. ... Nxe4 23. fe Bxe4 followed by Rxb5 and Ba3+ is
> nothing
> special for majority of intermediate players.
>
> Be that as it may, for me it is a very nice combination.

Yes, a nice combination but not so difficult to guess. And white should
have played 26. Kb2 ;-)

>
> I played this when Yahoo had a bug, and didn't sent the game to my
> email, so I had to type it out by hand, that's why the typo's.

Cpsr1982 - Eliyahu [A40]
1.d4 e5 2.d5 Nf6 3.c4 Bc5 4.h3 d6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bg5 h6 7.Bh4 Bf5 8.f3 Nbd7 9.g4
Bh7 10.e4 g5 11.Bg3 Qe7 12.h4 gxh4 13.Bxh4 Qf8 14.Qd2 Qg7 15.0-0-0 b5 16.b3
bxc4 17.Bxc4 Nb6 18.Bd3 a5 19.Nb5 Kd7 20.Bf1 Rhb8 21.a4 Nc8 22.Bh3 Nxe4
23.fxe4 Bxe4 24.g5+ Ke8 25.gxh6 Qh7 26.Rh2 Rxb5 27.axb5 Ba3+ 28.Qb2 Bxb2+
29.Kxb2 Qxh6 30.Rc1 Qf4 31.Re2 Qxh4 32.Rxc7 f5 33.Rg7 Ne7 34.Ka3 Bxd5 35.Re3
Qb4+ 36.Ka2 Qd2+ 0-1

Date: 26 Aug 2005 12:48:48
From:
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

umm, how do you guys even get anything out of that. The notation seems
nonsense to me. d4 e5 d6? those can't be the first 3 moves of the game

Date: 26 Aug 2005 22:43:38
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Claus-J=FCrgen_Heigl?=
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

[email protected] wrote:
> umm, how do you guys even get anything out of that. The notation seems
> nonsense to me. d4 e5 d6? those can't be the first 3 moves of the game

There are some transcription errors but they are rather obvious.

The game (with a few annotations) should be

1. d4 e5 2. d5 Nf6 3. c4 Bc5 4. h3 d6

{4... Bxf2+ 5. Kxf2 Ne4+ 6. Ke3 Qh4 7. g4 Nf2 8. Qe1 Qg3+ 9. Nf3 Nxh1 -+}

5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 h6 7. Bh4 Bf5 8. f3 Nbd7 9. g4 Bh7

{9... Ne4 10. fxe4 Qxh4+ 11. Kd2 Bh7 -/+}

10. e4 g5 11. Bg3 Qe7 {11... h5} 12. h4 gxh4 13. Bxh4 Qf8 14. Qd2 Qg7
15. O-O-O b5 16. b3 {16. cxb5} 16... bxc4

{16... Ba3+ 17. Kc2 b4 18. Nb1 Nxe4 19. fxe4 Bxe4+ 20. Bd3 Bxh1 -+}

17. Bxc4 Nb6 18. Bd3 a5 19. Nb5 Kd7 20. Bf1 {20. Bxf6 Qxf6 21. Rxh6}
20... Rhb8 21. a4 Nc8 22. Bh3

Claus-Juergen

Date: 26 Aug 2005 07:14:25
From:
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

Bs'd

> He would retire and enter politics.

He did that already, didn't he?

What I did on the 22th move was play a nice combination, which allowed
me 13 ply later to remove the white queen from the board, and 15 play
later I was 3 points (pawn is 1 point) ahead, because I had to
sacrifice a few pieces in the process.

But no computer seems to be able to see that combination, so I start to
wonder if there is a combination in that position, or was my opponent
just blundering after I blundered?

Eliyahu

Date: 26 Aug 2005 17:43:56
From: Jerzy
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

>> He would retire and enter politics.
>
> He did that already, didn't he?
>
> What I did on the 22th move was play a nice combination, which allowed
> me 13 ply later to remove the white queen from the board, and 15 play
> later I was 3 points (pawn is 1 point) ahead, because I had to
> sacrifice a few pieces in the process.
>
> But no computer seems to be able to see that combination, so I start to
> wonder if there is a combination in that position, or was my opponent
> just blundering after I blundered?
>

Eli, after many mistakes on both sides the final one was made by your
opponent so 22. ... Nxe4 23. fe Bxe4 followed by Rxb5 and Ba3+ is nothing
special for majority of intermediate players.

Date: 26 Aug 2005 22:18:30
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Claus-J=FCrgen_Heigl?=
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

Jerzy wrote:
> Eli, after many mistakes on both sides the final one was made by your
> opponent so 22. ... Nxe4 23. fe Bxe4 followed by Rxb5 and Ba3+ is nothing
> special for majority of intermediate players.

I don't see it because after 22...Nxe4 23. fxe4 Bxe4 24. g5+ Ke8 25.
gxh6 Black looks pretty lost. 24...Rxb5 25. hxg7 Ba3+ 26. Qb2 Bxb2+ 27.
Kxb2 Ne7 28. axb5 Bxh1 29. Rc1 Bxd5 (29...Ra7 30. b6) 30. Rxc7 f6 31.
Bxf6 Kf7 32. Bxe7 and Black has two pieces less. Or 24...Qg6 25. Qg5
(threat Qd8 mate) 25...Qxg5 26. Bxg5 Ne7 (26...Bxh1 27. h7) 27. h7 Bxh7
(27...Ng6 28. Rh2) 28. Bg4 Bf5 29. Bxf5 Nxf5 30. Nxc7+ Kd7 31. Nxa8 and
Black misses a rook.

In view of the threat 23. g5+ a nice try is 22...Ke8 23. Nxc7+ Kf8 24.
Nxa8 Nxe4 25. Qxa5 (threat Qd8 mate) 25...Qg6 26. Qd8+ Kg7 26. fxe4 Qxe4
when White has to resort to the perpetual 27. Qf6+. But White can do
better with 24. Bxf6 Qxf6 25. g5 hxg5 26. Nxa8 where I don't see a
convincing method to continue the attack for Black. White plans to
consolidate his pawn chain with Bg4 and develop the knight with either
Ne2-c3-b5 or Ne2-g3.

Black could have won as early as in the 4th move where 4...Bxf2+ 5. Kxf2
Ne4+ 6. Ke3 Qh4 with numerous threats was possible.

Claus-Juergen

Date: 27 Aug 2005 10:55:37
From: Jerzy
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

"Claus-J�rgen Heigl" <[email protected] > wrote
news:[email protected]...

>> Eli, after many mistakes on both sides the final one was made by your
>> opponent so 22. ... Nxe4 23. fe Bxe4 followed by Rxb5 and Ba3+ is nothing
>> special for majority of intermediate players.
>
> I don't see it because after 22...Nxe4 23. fxe4 Bxe4 24. g5+ Ke8 25. gxh6
> Black looks pretty lost. 24...Rxb5 25. hxg7 Ba3+ 26. Qb2 Bxb2+ 27. Kxb2
> Ne7 28. axb5 Bxh1 29. Rc1 Bxd5 (29...Ra7 30. b6) 30. Rxc7 f6 31. Bxf6 Kf7
> 32. Bxe7 and Black has two pieces less. Or 24...Qg6 25. Qg5 (threat Qd8
> mate) 25...Qxg5 26. Bxg5 Ne7 (26...Bxh1 27. h7) 27. h7 Bxh7 (27...Ng6 28.
> Rh2) 28. Bg4 Bf5 29. Bxf5 Nxf5 30. Nxc7+ Kd7 31. Nxa8 and Black misses a
> rook.

Yes, your analysis is more exact mine was 'ad hoc' ;-)
Not immediately Rxb5 and Ba3 and of course a kind of cooperation on the
white side is needed for the black to win :-)

>
> In view of the threat 23. g5+ a nice try is 22...Ke8 23. Nxc7+ Kf8 24.
> Nxa8 Nxe4 25. Qxa5 (threat Qd8 mate) 25...Qg6 26. Qd8+ Kg7 26. fxe4 Qxe4
> when White has to resort to the perpetual 27. Qf6+. But White can do
> better with 24. Bxf6 Qxf6 25. g5 hxg5 26. Nxa8 where I don't see a
> convincing method to continue the attack for Black. White plans to
> consolidate his pawn chain with Bg4 and develop the knight with either
> Ne2-c3-b5 or Ne2-g3.

Strategically speaking black pieces are rather clumsy on the queenside and
they can only hope that white will help them to come back to life.

>
> Black could have won as early as in the 4th move where 4...Bxf2+ 5. Kxf2
> Ne4+ 6. Ke3 Qh4 with numerous threats was possible.

Yes, an enormous amount of smaller and bigger mistakes on both sides typical
for beginners.

Date: 26 Aug 2005 06:02:50
From: Niemand
Subject: Re: What would Kasparov do in my position?

[email protected] wrote:
> What would Kasparov do in my position?

He would retire and enter politics.