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Main
Date: 21 May 2007 00:45:06
From: Sanny
Subject: What games chess players like?
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Chess players are fond of Chess Game, What other Games do Chess Players Like? A few like Chinese Checker Can I get a list of all strategy games simmilar to chess where one makes move and wait for opponent to make move. And needs lot of brains? Bye Sanny
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Date: 05 Jun 2007 00:47:56
From: help bot
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On Jun 4, 8:17 pm, Ralf Callenberg <[email protected] > wrote: > But did he ever show the ability of making fun of himself? Good question. I must admit that until fairly recently, I had no idea that so many of the posters here were all just one person, who apparently was driven to disguise his true identity (not unlike Superman!) and switch to a new handle almost daily. Thus, I can't answer on account of having been fooled for so long. One example would be the many, many postings I saw relating to a poster who called him/herself Nick Bourbaki. I can vaguely recall that JR, under whatever handles he used at the time, claimed to know NB's "true identity", but did he ever make jokes poking fun at himself? I cannot recall, but his high regard for NB may have allowed for such a thing while still protecting his huge ego; JR seemed a bit like a toady to NB. > >> Most of the joke is based on playing Tic-Tac-Toe on GM level, studying > >> openings for it etc. This game (and its level of complexitiy) is surely > >> also known in India. > > > Really? I doubt that it merits any knowledge > > outside of the USA, > > You could hardly be more wrong. This game is a few centuries older than > the good old US of A, and it's played by children around the globe. Wow. This really is a backward planet, then! I mean, it' not exactly an exciting game, is it? > > and although I personally > > believe "Sanny" may be from India, > > You don't have to believe it. His full name is Sanjay Sharma and he is > located in central India. Interesting. Several years ago, a family moved here and their surname was also Sharma. The father watched, the mother never showed up, and the son and daughter kicked butt on local adults who carelessly underestimated them. > > 3) a lot of Indians seem to speak English, albeit > > with a strong British accent > > Not every weird accent is "British"... Right. There is also Australian, and German (as in the TV series Hogan's Heroes). > > Only to those who know offhand that such games > > are very simple ones, designed for children. I seriously > > doubt that Sanny would know this, but even if he did, > > it would not be "obvious" to him, but something learned > > through research (like draws in chess!). > > Well, it seems Mr. Livingston had just more trust in the intelligence > and knowledge of Sanny than you did. This is a less sarcastic rek > than it seems. Just imagine Mr. Livingston was indeed new and didn't > have the experience we had with Sanny, maybe he didn't even realize by > this posting alone that he might talk to somebody not from a western > country. Well, the request asked for games that required a lot of brains, so how does that accord with a list of games designed for children? A: not very well. > >> I never heard of "Old Maid", but due to the rest of the posting > >> (including praising the also world wide known Rock-Paper-Scissor) > > > Again, I doubt the "world-wideness" here; you seem > > to assume that the culture of the United States is well > > known universally, but in fact, many people do not > > speak English and even if they were to see a Hollywood > > movie, much would remain a mystery. The same applies > > if this game originated in Europe. > > Who tells you that Rock-Paper-Scissor has its origin in the US or > Europe? Maybe it came several hundred years ago Egads. Are you suggesting that a game may have developed hundreds of years ago around the idea of a rock crushing scissors, when scissors were presumably not yet invented? How bizarre! Of course, scissors are for cutting paper (not papaya scrolls!). Okay, maybe this is worthy of a visit to the world's ultimate authority on everything: (no, not Ray Keene!) Wikipedia. [ducks for cover] Of course, some fool may have written a doctoral thesis on the origin of Rock-paper-scissors for Oxford. > - together with our numbers But not the decimal point! > and a game called chess - from India, or from North Africa. Or > co Polo brought it from China. And Old Maid, too? > > Ever watch one of > > those nature specials where they travel the world to > > photograph wild animals? I never see any of those > > natives playing *any* western games; they seem very > > preoccupied with basic survival. > > Even if you make no assumptions about is exact location - few things are > for sure - he is connected to the internet and he is running a software > company which tries to sell business managing software - so we can > safely assume that he is not hunting antilopes with bow and arrow in the > bushes for a living when he is not working on his chess program. With a population of about one billion people, it would seem the likelihood of antelopes wandering around is smallish. Maybe in the remote mountains of India? BTW, Sanny does not work on the chess program himself, but apparently, he directs a team of programmers (so he tells us) as to what to do. This is part of the problem, for the result is a waffling back and forth with little real forward progress. > It is a > quite safe assumption, that somebody used to computers, software > development and internet already grew up with a TV set around. I don't know about that. One of the newsletters I get tells about how the cellphone is the equivalent of a computer in China, because of its affordability. Even here in the USA, at one time the average person could not easily afford a TV set, though he/she could watch one somewhere besides home. Then there are those religions which repress such things as evil tools of the devil. > And this > implies with high probability that he knows who Lassie, Captain Kirk and > Godzilla are Lassie? But that program was in English -- a language Sanny can barely speak. Now the other two are watchable without any need to understand the dialog -- especially Godzilla. >- and with it some other basics of the global pop culture. I'm not convinced that what we call "pop culture" is universal. Many, many people are so impoverished that they haven't the time or inclination to jump in. And then there are language barriers, religious barriers, and so forth. Take for example the game "Old Maid"; in typical British fashion, the game is lost by the (aged female) who fails to hook-up by the end. But in some cultures the game is lost by the ones who hook-up against the law, resulting in both parties being stoned to death. Not exactly "pop culture" over in the West. -- help bot
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Date: 05 Jun 2007 12:08:39
From: Ralf Callenberg
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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05.06.2007 09:47, help bot: > > Wow. This really is a backward planet, then! > I mean, it' not exactly an exciting game, is it? But a very simple one with a very general idea and appeals without any background to any one alike. > Well, the request asked for games that required > a lot of brains, so how does that accord with a list > of games designed for children? A: not very well. Yes. A joke. > Egads. Are you suggesting that a game may have > developed hundreds of years ago around the idea > of a rock crushing scissors, when scissors were > presumably not yet invented? How bizarre! Of course, > scissors are for cutting paper (not papaya scrolls!). You've got a rough idea when paper was invented? Just to give a lower limit: Gutenberg died more than 500 years ago. > > Okay, maybe this is worthy of a visit to the world's > ultimate authority on everything: (no, not Ray Keene!) > Wikipedia. [ducks for cover] Of course, some fool > may have written a doctoral thesis on the origin of > Rock-paper-scissors for Oxford. When you checked you will find out, that the age of scissors is indeed measured in the thousands of years, not hundreds. >> It is a >> quite safe assumption, that somebody used to computers, software >> development and internet already grew up with a TV set around. > > I don't know about that. One of the newsletters > I get tells about how the cellphone is the equivalent > of a computer in China, because of its affordability. Where in China? Shanghai? Compared to Shanghai's downtown with their massive lineup of skyscrapers and concentration of Gucci and Prada stores Manhattan looks like a sleepy village. And in those Gucci shops you pay about the same as in any other stores around the globe. > Even here in the USA, at one time the average > person could not easily afford a TV set, though > he/she could watch one somewhere besides home. That might be true for many people. It is not necessary to have your own set to get a view on the world outside. > Lassie? But that program was in English -- a > language Sanny can barely speak. You think I in Germany watched Lassie and Star Trek in English as a child? Dubbing, voice overs, subtitles. According to the technical and financial possibilities they found different solutions. It was still easier to buy some old American show than to produce something specific for a small ket. > I'm not convinced that what we call "pop culture" is > universal. Two years ago I was in a group in Munich playing the national team from Uganda which was on a visit in Germany. Young people most of them, students or dropped out of school a year ago, as nobody was paying tuition any more. Some already traveled around, for many it was the first leave of their hometown. You would never guess what they wanted to see with most excitement in Munich: The stadium where Bayern Munich plays, the local internationally successful soccer team. To my amazement I found myself with young chess players from Uganda talking about the newest stars of the German national *soccer* team (although the honestly preferred the Brazilian team). But when my jaw dropped down was when they were talking about the fun they had when watching as children on TV a silly German comedy show from the 70s. I confirmed it several times as I could not believe it. There was another German children's show they were talking about I later identified as an East German production, which has not been broadcasted in the West. Last year there was a quite popular semi documentary about some nomads of Mongolia in the cinemas. They were living in the wide plains, riding on camels for days to the next village - and you could see their children in one of their huts in front of a tiny portable TV set watching an American cartoon. You should be very careful with assumptions about what people share around this planet, and what not. > Many, many people are so impoverished > that they haven't the time or inclination to jump in. You will find these people in Arkansas and in East Asia. Just because people in wide parts of the world don't have our standard of living does not mean, that all they think of is how to get the next sip of water or piece of bread. > And then there are language barriers, religious > barriers, and so forth. Sure, I don't say the culture is homogeneous on the world. But you shouldn't assume, that wide parts of the world are completely disconnected and only an elite crosses the borders. And whatever we might assume - Sanny definitely belongs to those who crossed this border, how small his steps were. So - your assumption - or suspicion, that he does not even know some basic facts about the global village is not very well rooted. Greetings, Ralf
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Date: 26 May 2007 23:59:00
From: help bot
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On May 26, 8:21 pm, Ralf Callenberg <[email protected] > wrote: > 27.05.2007 01:48, help bot: > > > Skippy Repa was just kidding > > around when he suggested Old Maid. > > Where did you got the idea that Don Livingston is actually Jason Repa? First, let me begin by noting that Skippy Repa has around five hundred different handles here, so the odds are fairly good that any random post may well be one of his. Second, although there was no cussin', fightin', or spittin', the general tone of making fun of someone who is vulnerable -- here, because Sanny is not a native speaker of English and seems to have a certain childlike quality about him -- fits JR to a T. No, I didn't do any fancy research into the posting's headers, as others might in their quest to uncover the "secret identity" of Dr. Livingston. And yes, I could well be wrong. I could also be wrong about another mysterious poster, one Rob Mitchell, who *invariably* takes turns with Phil Innes, much like Superman and Clark Kent. A more obsessive person might do a study, comparing posting habits to determine if these two have ever been active at exactly the same time, for instance. That's not my style. > This post would be completely untypical for him (Mostly untypical: > irony, not a single curse, giving his Elo ratings as below 1000). I myself noted the absence of cursing in my earlier post. This proves nothing, for the Repa creature has DEMON-strated an ability to hold itself back from cursing before -- but never for very long if it is provoked! (Usually, one provocation is more than sufficient.) > > I think > > it's not really sporting to poke fun like that when > > you know that Sanny barely understands English. > > Most of the joke is based on playing Tic-Tac-Toe on GM level, studying > openings for it etc. This game (and its level of complexitiy) is surely > also known in India. Really? I doubt that it merits any knowledge outside of the USA, and although I personally believe "Sanny" may be from India, he may well be from somewhere else; nobody asks, they only ridicule. I picked India because: 1) the odds look good since it has so many people! 2) the name seems (to me) to fit India 3) a lot of Indians seem to speak English, albeit with a strong British accent But what about Pakistan, Sri Lanka, or the Arab states? > So it's not playing around with cultural > differences. I agree on that point. To me, the joke looked like it was an inside one, poking fun at someone (in the open) who was not supposed to "get it". > That the rest of the recommendations are nonsense should be > obvious. Only to those who know offhand that such games are very simple ones, designed for children. I seriously doubt that Sanny would know this, but even if he did, it would not be "obvious" to him, but something learned through research (like draws in chess!). > I never heard of "Old Maid", but due to the rest of the posting > (including praising the also world wide known Rock-Paper-Scissor) Again, I doubt the "world-wideness" here; you seem to assume that the culture of the United States is well known universally, but in fact, many people do not speak English and even if they were to see a Hollywood movie, much would remain a mystery. The same applies if this game originated in Europe. Ever watch one of those nature specials where they travel the world to photograph wild animals? I never see any of those natives playing *any* western games; they seem very preoccupied with basic survival. One famous chess writer played in Japan, and instantly became their national champion because western games were not popular there! > I assumed it's just a casual game with low degree of difficulty. Not merely a low degree of difficulty, for that would apply to checkers as well. Old Maid and so forth are specifically sold as *children's* games. I personally, interpreted Sanny's question as most likely relating to his Web site redesign. What sort of games might he add in addition to chess? From this perspective, suggestions such as Risk or Stratego are useless, for they are not in the public domain. That leaves such games as checkers, and probably several popular card games which have been around for a long time, games such as poker and blackjack. -- help bot
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Date: 05 Jun 2007 02:17:35
From: Ralf Callenberg
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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27.05.2007 08:59, help bot: > I myself noted the absence of cursing in my earlier > post. This proves nothing, for the Repa creature has > DEMON-strated an ability to hold itself back from > cursing before -- but never for very long if it is provoked! > (Usually, one provocation is more than sufficient.) But did he ever show the ability of making fun of himself? >> Most of the joke is based on playing Tic-Tac-Toe on GM level, studying >> openings for it etc. This game (and its level of complexitiy) is surely >> also known in India. > > Really? I doubt that it merits any knowledge > outside of the USA, You could hardly be more wrong. This game is a few centuries older than the good old US of A, and it's played by children around the globe. and although I personally > believe "Sanny" may be from India, You don't have to believe it. His full name is Sanjay Sharma and he is located in central India. > 3) a lot of Indians seem to speak English, albeit > with a strong British accent Not every weird accent is "British"... > Only to those who know offhand that such games > are very simple ones, designed for children. I seriously > doubt that Sanny would know this, but even if he did, > it would not be "obvious" to him, but something learned > through research (like draws in chess!). Well, it seems Mr. Livingston had just more trust in the intelligence and knowledge of Sanny than you did. This is a less sarcastic rek than it seems. Just imagine Mr. Livingston was indeed new and didn't have the experience we had with Sanny, maybe he didn't even realize by this posting alone that he might talk to somebody not from a western country. >> I never heard of "Old Maid", but due to the rest of the posting >> (including praising the also world wide known Rock-Paper-Scissor) > > Again, I doubt the "world-wideness" here; you seem > to assume that the culture of the United States is well > known universally, but in fact, many people do not > speak English and even if they were to see a Hollywood > movie, much would remain a mystery. The same applies > if this game originated in Europe. Who tells you that Rock-Paper-Scissor has its origin in the US or Europe? Maybe it came several hundred years ago - together with our numbers and a game called chess - from India, or from North Africa. Or co Polo brought it from China. Ever watch one of > those nature specials where they travel the world to > photograph wild animals? I never see any of those > natives playing *any* western games; they seem very > preoccupied with basic survival. Even if you make no assumptions about is exact location - few things are for sure - he is connected to the internet and he is running a software company which tries to sell business managing software - so we can safely assume that he is not hunting antilopes with bow and arrow in the bushes for a living when he is not working on his chess program. It is a quite safe assumption, that somebody used to computers, software development and internet already grew up with a TV set around. And this implies with high probability that he knows who Lassie, Captain Kirk and Godzilla are - and with it some other basics of the global pop culture. Greetings, Ralf
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Date: 05 Jun 2007 01:25:44
From: D. Spencer Hines
Subject: Re: What Games Chess Players Like?
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Chess... There Are No Substitutes. DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas
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Date: 27 May 2007 07:59:47
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On 26 May 2007 23:59:00 -0700, help bot <[email protected] > wrote: >> I assumed it's just a casual game with low degree of difficulty. > Not merely a low degree of difficulty, for that would >apply to checkers as well. What? Unless the bot has been radically reprogrammed, I suspect that after a year or so of diligent study, he'd still contract a serious case of whup-ass upon challenging a checker master.
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Date: 26 May 2007 16:48:19
From: help bot
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On May 26, 10:08 am, Patrick Volk <[email protected] > wrote: > > As for "predating" the world wide web, I suppose if > >the anchor predated the aircraft carrier, that means > >that none of our ships have any way to stay in position > >now. I mean, it's not as if something more ancient can > >be incorporated into something new... . > > Your analogy implies that usenet needs the web to survive. Nonsense. An aircraft carrier does not "need" an anchor. It only uses one because nobody has had any need to invent some other way to hold a ship in place. That's because, as crude as it may be, an anchor *works* just the same. (I would prefer an electromagnet which latches onto the core of the Earth, and holds the ship fast using the GPS. It is quite obvious that an anchor and chain are bulky and heavy, and they don't exactly enhance a ships looks, either. Add to this their tendency to rust, the considerable room required to store them, and a limited breaking strength -- but enough about anchors already.) > And you definitely have the AOL'ers perspective on things. You can't > help but associate usenet with the web and Google. Why? Because that's > all you know. Ridiculous. I also know how to play chess, drive a car, operate a computer, and type. Contrast that to a typical AOLer, who can't even figure out that he is overpaying for his internet service! > Google does play an important role though in usenet. It provides the > memory for usenet. You can go back 15+ years, where most other > internet stuff (www, irc, ftp) doesn't have that. That's not "memory"; that's archiving. Are you sure you're not an AOLer? > > So, maybe you wanna get technical, eh? In that > >case, prepare to get fired upon for not capitalizing > >the word "Web" (the lower-case spelling surely refers > >to the silken creation of a spider). I have you now! > >:>D > > LOL... Lessee then you should capitalize it when you're looking for > web pages... HTTP://WWW.GOOGLE.COM No. Right now I am typing this post and the address bar shows *everything* in lower case letters. What I meant was that in your text, you ought to capitalize the word "Web", just as you would capitalize words like "December" and "English". It's because what you refer to is a very specific thing, not a generic "web" like what you get tangled up in when first you lie, or if you're a small insect. Sort of like when you refer to the company, you would capitalize "Google", but if you use it as a verb -- as in "google the world's foremost expert on chess" -- there is no need; in fact, capitalizing a verb could lead to confusion. --- Oh, and one more thing: the game players like GMs Lasker and friends liked best of all was probably whist. Skippy Repa was just kidding around when he suggested Old Maid. I think it's not really sporting to poke fun like that when you know that Sanny barely understands English. I mean, how would Skip like it if he were to leave Winterpeg and move to India, where the locals then get him to eat bat guano by telling him it's the local food? Very unsporting indeed. But then, we should make some allowance for Skip's low IQ. -- help bot
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Date: 27 May 2007 02:21:24
From: Ralf Callenberg
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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27.05.2007 01:48, help bot: > Skippy Repa was just kidding > around when he suggested Old Maid. Where did you got the idea that Don Livingston is actually Jason Repa? This post would be completely untypical for him (Mostly untypical: irony, not a single curse, giving his Elo ratings as below 1000). > I think > it's not really sporting to poke fun like that when > you know that Sanny barely understands English. Most of the joke is based on playing Tic-Tac-Toe on GM level, studying openings for it etc. This game (and its level of complexitiy) is surely also known in India. So it's not playing around with cultural differences. That the rest of the recommendations are nonsense should be obvious. I never heard of "Old Maid", but due to the rest of the posting (including praising the also world wide known Rock-Paper-Scissor) I assumed it's just a casual game with low degree of difficulty. Greetings, Ralf
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Date: 25 May 2007 02:39:30
From: help bot
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On May 24, 12:51 am, Patrick Volk <[email protected] > wrote: > On 22 May 2007 22:26:43 -0700, help bot <[email protected]> > wrote: > > >On May 21, 10:22 pm, Patrick Volk <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Why don't you look on the web? > > > Um, this *is* the Web. (I get here via www.google.com, > >where the "www" stands for "World Wide Web".) > > This is not the web... This is usenet. Google is to newsgroups like > AOL is to the WWW (and it shows sometimes...). Usenet predates the > www. I just did a google search on "usenet and the world wide web" to see what came up. The very first hit led me to "livinginternet.com" where I quickly ran across this comment: "The Usenet is an especially useful place to search for the answer to a question, since so many questions are asked and answered there." As can be seen above, the attack on Sanny for asking his question here is a bit silly, except insofar as this: he would get an immediate answer by doing a google search, instead of having to *wait* for a response here. But as this is a game newsgroup, perhaps he reasoned (I know that's a stretch!) that we were sort of experts on the subject of games. On the other issue, I don't see Google as being the equivalent of AOL for several reasons. 1) AOL has to be the worst ISP I have ever tried, whereas Google is like Ace Ventura: the best there is. 2) Google takes me where I want to go on the internet and drops me off, whereas AOL wouldn't let me break free to save my life; it's a bit like that old Eagles song, Hotel California: you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave (AOL). And I don't mean just their software, either! As for "predating" the world wide web, I suppose if the anchor predated the aircraft carrier, that means that none of our ships have any way to stay in position now. I mean, it's not as if something more ancient can be incorporated into something new... . So, maybe you wanna get technical, eh? In that case, prepare to get fired upon for not capitalizing the word "Web" (the lower-case spelling surely refers to the silken creation of a spider). I have you now! : >D -- help bot
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Date: 26 May 2007 10:08:45
From: Patrick Volk
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On 25 May 2007 02:39:30 -0700, help bot <[email protected] > wrote: >On May 24, 12:51 am, Patrick Volk <[email protected]> wrote: >> On 22 May 2007 22:26:43 -0700, help bot <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >On May 21, 10:22 pm, Patrick Volk <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Why don't you look on the web? >> >> > Um, this *is* the Web. (I get here via www.google.com, >> >where the "www" stands for "World Wide Web".) >> >> This is not the web... This is usenet. Google is to newsgroups like >> AOL is to the WWW (and it shows sometimes...). Usenet predates the >> www. > > I just did a google search on "usenet and the world wide web" >to see what came up. The very first hit led me to >"livinginternet.com" >where I quickly ran across this comment: > > "The Usenet is an especially useful place to search for the answer >to >a question, since so many questions are asked and answered there." > > As can be seen above, the attack on Sanny for asking his >question here is a bit silly, except insofar as this: he would >get an immediate answer by doing a google search, instead >of having to *wait* for a response here. But as this is a game >newsgroup, perhaps he reasoned (I know that's a stretch!) >that we were sort of experts on the subject of games. Look at his original request... or demand. Let's just say he's not a people person. > > On the other issue, I don't see Google as being the >equivalent of AOL for several reasons. 1) AOL has to >be the worst ISP I have ever tried, whereas Google is >like Ace Ventura: the best there is. 2) Google takes >me where I want to go on the internet and drops me off, >whereas AOL wouldn't let me break free to save my life; >it's a bit like that old Eagles song, Hotel California: you >can check out any time you like, but you can never >leave (AOL). And I don't mean just their software, >either! Google is more like AOL than you know. AOL'ers tend to defend their choice... Why? Because that's all they know there is. > > As for "predating" the world wide web, I suppose if >the anchor predated the aircraft carrier, that means >that none of our ships have any way to stay in position >now. I mean, it's not as if something more ancient can >be incorporated into something new... . Your analogy implies that usenet needs the web to survive. So not true! It was doing just fine before the web came along. The web is broad and esoteric to me. Usenet is narrower in scope, but much deeper. On the surface, it makes it less fun. And you definitely have the AOL'ers perspective on things. You can't help but associate usenet with the web and Google. Why? Because that's all you know. Google does play an important role though in usenet. It provides the memory for usenet. You can go back 15+ years, where most other internet stuff (www, irc, ftp) doesn't have that. > > So, maybe you wanna get technical, eh? In that >case, prepare to get fired upon for not capitalizing >the word "Web" (the lower-case spelling surely refers >to the silken creation of a spider). I have you now! >:>D LOL... Lessee then you should capitalize it when you're looking for web pages... HTTP://WWW.GOOGLE.COM But it's not like AOL... how? ;D Pat > > -- help bot > > > >
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Date: 22 May 2007 22:42:58
From: help bot
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On May 22, 11:53 am, Don <[email protected] > wrote: > Wow. What a sad and bizaare reaction to some harmless kidding with > Sanny. Is he your gay lover or something? Skip is a bit touchy about his, um, 10% gayness. He prefers it if people would just try to focus on the other 90% of him (which, he tells us, is straight). But the real problem is that because of his low IQ and inability to get along with the other kids, he has developed a decided tendency to lash out at others who, like him, appear simple or childlike in the content of their postings here. Unfortunately, the psychological problems run so deep that Skip will often simultaneously attack others for posting under a pseudonym, while doing precisely the same thing himself in the attacking post! Yowie. --- As for Sanny, he's a cool guy, but he just can't seem to stop lying about his world famous Web site and chess program. My prescription is sodium pentathol, since nearly everything else has already been tried, unsuccessfully. -- doc bot
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Date: 22 May 2007 22:26:43
From: help bot
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On May 21, 10:22 pm, Patrick Volk <[email protected] > wrote: > Why don't you look on the web? Um, this *is* the Web. (I get here via www.google.com, where the "www" stands for "World Wide Web".) > Me personally, I like > > Bowling (same Zen as darts, but more physical) I hate bowling because, as in golf, the ball never goes where I (quite obviously) aimed it. In chess, the pieces nearly always land where I aim. > 500 bid (my family's first game, chess is second) > Euchre I used to like this one. -- help bot
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Date: 24 May 2007 00:51:31
From: Patrick Volk
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On 22 May 2007 22:26:43 -0700, help bot <[email protected] > wrote: >On May 21, 10:22 pm, Patrick Volk <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Why don't you look on the web? > > Um, this *is* the Web. (I get here via www.google.com, >where the "www" stands for "World Wide Web".) > This is not the web... This is usenet. Google is to newsgroups like AOL is to the WWW (and it shows sometimes...). Usenet predates the www. > >> Me personally, I like >> >> Bowling (same Zen as darts, but more physical) > > I hate bowling because, as in golf, the ball never >goes where I (quite obviously) aimed it. In chess, >the pieces nearly always land where I aim. > > >> 500 bid (my family's first game, chess is second) >> Euchre > > I used to like this one. > > -- help bot
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Date: 22 May 2007 08:53:54
From: Don
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On May 21, 6:50 pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote: > On May 21, 5:11 pm, Don <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On May 21, 2:45 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Chess players are fond of Chess Game, > > > > What other Games do Chess Players Like? > > > > A few like > > > > Chinese Checker > > > > Can I get a list of all strategy games simmilar to chess where one > > > makes move and wait for opponent to make move. And needs lot of > > > brains? > > > > Bye > > > Sanny > > > Hi Sanny, > > > I'm new here, but since I have lots of brains and like playing games > > that require lots of brains, I thought I'd chime in on this one. The > > one game I've always found to be as challenging as chess is Tic-Tac- > > Toe (T3). I sometimes spend hours pondering my next move. I've read > > many books on T3 theory (including books on T3 openinings, middle and > > end games) and I've studied under some of the great Polish masters. I > > believe I read somewhere that T3 is third only to Chess and Rock-Paper- > > Scissors (RPS) as the most written about game, so there would be > > plenty or resources for you to draw from. Having seen your chess > > website, I think you and your programming team could probably pull off > > putting together a good T3 game. If you would decide to try to tackle > > either T3 or RPS, I'm a GM in each, so let me know if you need someone > > to test them out. > > > Another couple of games that I'm fond of are card strategy games. One > > is called Old Maid and the other Go Fish. They also need lots of > > brains to play properly. > > > Hope this helps, > > Don "Cats" Livingstone, T3 GM, RPS GM, ELO 815 > > Hello again, Skippy. Been a while since you > went away. Glad to see that your old temper > tantrum problem is now under control. Too bad > they can't do something about your low IQ with > prescription drugs, though. > > I didn't realize you were a GM at tic-tac-toe -- > very impressive! Of course, this shoots a hole > right through my theory that an idiot savant can > become expert at (just) one game through > practice. Now that you are known to be a major > talent in yet another game, it's back to the old > drawing board for me. > > -- coach- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Wow. What a sad and bizaare reaction to some harmless kidding with Sanny. Is he your gay lover or something?
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Date: 21 May 2007 16:50:31
From: help bot
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On May 21, 5:11 pm, Don <[email protected] > wrote: > On May 21, 2:45 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Chess players are fond of Chess Game, > > > What other Games do Chess Players Like? > > > A few like > > > Chinese Checker > > > Can I get a list of all strategy games simmilar to chess where one > > makes move and wait for opponent to make move. And needs lot of > > brains? > > > Bye > > Sanny > > Hi Sanny, > > I'm new here, but since I have lots of brains and like playing games > that require lots of brains, I thought I'd chime in on this one. The > one game I've always found to be as challenging as chess is Tic-Tac- > Toe (T3). I sometimes spend hours pondering my next move. I've read > many books on T3 theory (including books on T3 openinings, middle and > end games) and I've studied under some of the great Polish masters. I > believe I read somewhere that T3 is third only to Chess and Rock-Paper- > Scissors (RPS) as the most written about game, so there would be > plenty or resources for you to draw from. Having seen your chess > website, I think you and your programming team could probably pull off > putting together a good T3 game. If you would decide to try to tackle > either T3 or RPS, I'm a GM in each, so let me know if you need someone > to test them out. > > Another couple of games that I'm fond of are card strategy games. One > is called Old Maid and the other Go Fish. They also need lots of > brains to play properly. > > Hope this helps, > Don "Cats" Livingstone, T3 GM, RPS GM, ELO 815 Hello again, Skippy. Been a while since you went away. Glad to see that your old temper tantrum problem is now under control. Too bad they can't do something about your low IQ with prescription drugs, though. I didn't realize you were a GM at tic-tac-toe -- very impressive! Of course, this shoots a hole right through my theory that an idiot savant can become expert at (just) one game through practice. Now that you are known to be a major talent in yet another game, it's back to the old drawing board for me. -- coach
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Date: 23 May 2007 03:50:28
From: Ralf Callenberg
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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22.05.2007 01:50, help bot: >> Don "Cats" Livingstone, T3 GM, RPS GM, ELO 815 > > Hello again, Skippy. You actually regard it as possible that he would be able to come up with some self-deprecating jokes? Greetings, Ralf
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Date: 21 May 2007 14:11:47
From: Don
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On May 21, 2:45 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote: > Chess players are fond of Chess Game, > > What other Games do Chess Players Like? > > A few like > > Chinese Checker > > Can I get a list of all strategy games simmilar to chess where one > makes move and wait for opponent to make move. And needs lot of > brains? > > Bye > Sanny Hi Sanny, I'm new here, but since I have lots of brains and like playing games that require lots of brains, I thought I'd chime in on this one. The one game I've always found to be as challenging as chess is Tic-Tac- Toe (T3). I sometimes spend hours pondering my next move. I've read many books on T3 theory (including books on T3 openinings, middle and end games) and I've studied under some of the great Polish masters. I believe I read somewhere that T3 is third only to Chess and Rock-Paper- Scissors (RPS) as the most written about game, so there would be plenty or resources for you to draw from. Having seen your chess website, I think you and your programming team could probably pull off putting together a good T3 game. If you would decide to try to tackle either T3 or RPS, I'm a GM in each, so let me know if you need someone to test them out. Another couple of games that I'm fond of are card strategy games. One is called Old Maid and the other Go Fish. They also need lots of brains to play properly. Hope this helps, Don "Cats" Livingstone, T3 GM, RPS GM, ELO 815
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Date: 28 May 2007 00:15:23
From: help bot
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On May 28, 1:36 am, help bot <[email protected] > wrote: > I fully expect that were I given sufficient motivation and > a reasonable amount of time, I would become one of > these "masters" of checkers with little difficulty. But > this will not happen because if anything, I would want > to move *up* to a game more interesting than chess, > not down toward Tic-tac-toe! And I detest the idea of > memorization of correct moves by rote. BTW, I just played a game of checkers against a computer program on the Web. At the bottom of the page, a brief, simple but *fairly* complete explanation of the rules was given, which took me all of one minute to read. The program's default level was 6 plys, and the game ended (so to speak) in an infinite repetition of position, since the designer made the same mistake as Sanny in not allowing for draws. This program tried very hard to make exchanges whenever possible, and I cooperated in hopes of avoiding an embarrassing quadruple-jump loss! Clearly, although a certain level of strategy is required to do well, it was sufficient for me to selectively calculate a single full-move ahead in order to draw a computer where, presumably, neither of us has any openings knowledge whatever. Now imagine a checkers player going to some chess Web site and facing off against it at six plys. Instead of merely calculating captures one full-move ahead, he would also need to constantly monitor the "safety" of both Kings, and who knows how many other factors just in order to survive. That's with no book, and even a simplistic program which ignores positional factors. And the rules section at the bottom of the page? It would need to explain how each different man moves, including en passant, check, captures, and so forth. In commercial chess programs, instead of merely reducing the depth of search it is also necessary to cause the program to occasionally hang pieces in order to put things on a more even keel when facing weaker players. In fact, I have considerable first- hand experience playing weak players on the net, and even when we go out of book extremely early and the position is quite unfamiliar, I always have to consider "positional judgment" factors before eating the free stuff. No so with checkers, for as the rules were clearly stated on that Web site, captures are *obligatory*. The more I look at it, the more it looks like a relatively *simple* game, even if checkers masters do have specialized openings knowledge just as with chess. -- help bot
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Date: 27 May 2007 22:36:25
From: help bot
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On May 27, 10:59 am, Mike Murray <[email protected] > wrote: > On 26 May 2007 23:59:00 -0700, help bot <[email protected]> > wrote: > > >> I assumed it's just a casual game with low degree of difficulty. > > Not merely a low degree of difficulty, for that would > >apply to checkers as well. > > What? Unless the bot has been radically reprogrammed, I suspect that > after a year or so of diligent study, he'd still contract a serious > case of whup-ass upon challenging a checker master. Look, there is a huge difference between being able to take on a checkers master and simply determining whether or not checkers is a simple or a complex game. From what I have read, these masters have often memorized a great deal of openings theory, and thus they can play the opening phase almost by rote. This is much like chess, except that with chess, even the *grand*masters will sometimes disagree as to who is winning, or even whether a given position is a draw. In chess, before the advent of strong computers, many false evaluations were published as established "fact". Chess is more complex in many ways, including the fact that all 64 squares are utilized instead of only 32, and the fact that in checkers there are only two types of men, vs. chess which has K, Q, R, B, N, and p, each of which moves differently and some of which have *special rules* governing their legal moves; rules like en passant, castling, and check. The truth is, the only problem I have ever experienced when playing checkers against another amateur like myself, is one single game where one of us was found to be "stalemated", so to speak. Neither of us had a clue what the governing rule was when there was no legal move. This game is simple enough to teach a child in short order (and the priy issue of contention might be whose turn it is to move if they fail to pay attention). Compare and contrast to chess, where even when facing experienced adult players who claim to be quite skilled, there has arisen a number of problems. One example was a fellow who claimed there was no such thing as en passant, saying he and his dad played chess for many years, and in another game I happened to win (IMO), he claimed that a newly promoted pawn had no checking power until *after* he made his reply! Moving on to tournament play between experienced competitors, even expert players can disagree as to the technicalities of the rules, whether time or position takes precedence, the laws of castling, and so on. It is a vastly more complex game in this respect, as any experienced scholastic TD can relate. In many cases where children are playing one another, both players will be found to be in check at the same time, one or more of them having castled through or out of check, and so on and so forth. Complex. And although cheap plastic sets with small red and black boards are sold as if just for children, the truth is they are just shifting wood, not playing legal chess. I see no reason why young children cannot play a legal game of checkers, as that game is far simpler. --- The joke on Sanny consisted in pretending to make a serious response, which nonetheless incorporated only games specifically sold for children. Having seen Sanny's old Web site, I happen to know that his priy product for sale was business oriented. How many businesses are owned and operated by children? --- But what about "degree of difficulty"? Once again, if you can get beyond the master's memorization of rote moves, it boils down to accurately calculating the effects of the relatively few legal moves, since every unpromoted man is identical (except for color). There really is no comparison to chess or other more complex games. I fully expect that were I given sufficient motivation and a reasonable amount of time, I would become one of these "masters" of checkers with little difficulty. But this will not happen because if anything, I would want to move *up* to a game more interesting than chess, not down toward Tic-tac-toe! And I detest the idea of memorization of correct moves by rote. -- help bot
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Date: 23 May 2007 08:09:29
From: Ian Burton
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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"Don" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:[email protected]... > On May 21, 2:45 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote: >> Chess players are fond of Chess Game, >> >> What other Games do Chess Players Like? >> >> A few like >> >> Chinese Checker >> >> Can I get a list of all strategy games simmilar to chess where one >> makes move and wait for opponent to make move. And needs lot of >> brains? >> >> Bye >> Sanny > > Hi Sanny, > > I'm new here, but since I have lots of brains and like playing games > that require lots of brains, I thought I'd chime in on this one. The > one game I've always found to be as challenging as chess is Tic-Tac- > Toe (T3). I sometimes spend hours pondering my next move. I've read > many books on T3 theory (including books on T3 openinings, middle and > end games) and I've studied under some of the great Polish masters. I > believe I read somewhere that T3 is third only to Chess and Rock-Paper- > Scissors (RPS) as the most written about game, so there would be > plenty or resources for you to draw from. Having seen your chess > website, I think you and your programming team could probably pull off > putting together a good T3 game. If you would decide to try to tackle > either T3 or RPS, I'm a GM in each, so let me know if you need someone > to test them out. > > Another couple of games that I'm fond of are card strategy games. One > is called Old Maid and the other Go Fish. They also need lots of > brains to play properly. > > Hope this helps, > Don "Cats" Livingstone, T3 GM, RPS GM, ELO 815 ROFL! -- Ian Burton (Please reply to the Newsgroup) >
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Date: 21 May 2007 22:22:37
From: Patrick Volk
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On 21 May 2007 14:11:47 -0700, Don <[email protected] > wrote: >On May 21, 2:45 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote: >> Chess players are fond of Chess Game, >> >> What other Games do Chess Players Like? >> >> A few like >> >> Chinese Checker >> >> Can I get a list of all strategy games simmilar to chess where one >> makes move and wait for opponent to make move. And needs lot of >> brains? Why don't you look on the web? Me personally, I like Bowling (same Zen as darts, but more physical) 500 bid (my family's first game, chess is second) Euchre Scrabble (Third game) Cribbage Backgammon Bang! Boomtown For Sale >> >> Bye >> Sanny > >Hi Sanny, > >I'm new here, but since I have lots of brains and like playing games >that require lots of brains, I thought I'd chime in on this one. The >one game I've always found to be as challenging as chess is Tic-Tac- >Toe (T3). I sometimes spend hours pondering my next move. I've read >many books on T3 theory (including books on T3 openinings, middle and >end games) and I've studied under some of the great Polish masters. I >believe I read somewhere that T3 is third only to Chess and Rock-Paper- >Scissors (RPS) as the most written about game, so there would be >plenty or resources for you to draw from. Having seen your chess >website, I think you and your programming team could probably pull off >putting together a good T3 game. If you would decide to try to tackle >either T3 or RPS, I'm a GM in each, so let me know if you need someone >to test them out. > >Another couple of games that I'm fond of are card strategy games. One >is called Old Maid and the other Go Fish. They also need lots of >brains to play properly. > >Hope this helps, >Don "Cats" Livingstone, T3 GM, RPS GM, ELO 815
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Date: 22 May 2007 09:11:08
From: ebankgame
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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Date: 21 May 2007 04:21:06
From:
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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On 21 May, 08:45, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote: > What other Games do Chess Players Like? Texas Hold'em Poker
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Date: 21 May 2007 16:36:58
From: GREG NIEMI
Subject: Re: What games chess players like?
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<[email protected] > wrote in message news:[email protected]... > On 21 May, 08:45, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote: >> What other Games do Chess Players Like? > Texas Hold'em Poker Omaha Hi-Lo poker >
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