The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo reprinted

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Date: 09 May 2008 09:54:05
From: samsloan
Subject: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo reprinted

Elo's book, The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, is
reprinted today.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0923891277

Professor Elo's book, long out of print and almost impossible to
obtain, has just been reprinted.

Sam Sloan

Date: 16 May 2008 14:31:53
From:
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo

samsloan wrote:
> On May 16, 8:15 am, [email protected] wrote:
> > On May 9, 12:54 pm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Elo's book, The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, is
> > > reprinted today.
> >
> > >http://www.amazon.com/dp/0923891277
> >
> > > Professor Elo's book, long out of print and almost impossible to
> > > obtain, has just been reprinted.
> >
> > > Sam Sloan
> >
> > So, Sam, what about that copyright?
>
> You obviously know nothing about copyright law and I am not here to
> educate you.
>
> Sam Sloan

Perhaps, Sam, but I suspect I know rather more about the subject than
you do. (Not a major achievement, of course.) The book was copyrighted
at one time. The copyright has not expired. Either a) the current
holder of the copyright transferred it to you or gave you permission
to reprint the work, b) some owner of the copyright between now and
1978 explicitly put it in public domain, or c) you pirated the work
and are breaking the law. Which is it? It's a simple question.

Date: 16 May 2008 14:11:38
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo

On May 16, 8:15 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On May 9, 12:54 pm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Elo's book, The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, is
> > reprinted today.
>
> >http://www.amazon.com/dp/0923891277
>
> > Professor Elo's book, long out of print and almost impossible to
> > obtain, has just been reprinted.
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> So, Sam, what about that copyright?

You obviously know nothing about copyright law and I am not here to
educate you.

Sam Sloan

Date: 16 May 2008 06:15:23
From:
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo

On May 9, 12:54=A0pm, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> Elo's book, The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, is
> reprinted today.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/0923891277
>
> Professor Elo's book, long out of print and almost impossible to
> obtain, has just been reprinted.
>
> Sam Sloan

So, Sam, what about that copyright?

Date: 10 May 2008 07:13:39
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo

When the USCF first started the rating system, it was free. I do not
know when rating fees were first introduced. I imagine that it
happened in the 1970s.

Sam Sloan

Date: 10 May 2008 06:42:36
From:
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo

On May 9, 8:34=C2=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On May 9, 12:54=EF=BF=BDpm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Elo's book, The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, is
> > > reprinted today.
>
> > >http://www.amazon.com/dp/0923891277
>
> > > Professor Elo's book, long out of print and almost impossible to
> > > obtain, has just been reprinted.
>
> > > Sam Sloan
>
> > =C2=A0I'm still wondering if this book is in the public domain at this
> > time. It was first published in 1978, just 30 years ago. What is the
> > length of copyright for such works?
>
> If the intitial copyright date was 1978 or later, author's life plus
> 70 years. If it was pre-1978, 95 years after the start of copyright.
> Unless the copyright holder voluntarily put it in public domain
> (possible, I suppose, since I doubt Elo was in it for the money), or
> Sloan obtained permission from the copyright holder, he's violating
> the law. However, it would be up to whoever currently owns the
> copyright to raise the matter.

In view of this, Sam, I wonder if you have secured the copyright? It
would seem that it has not expired, that the book is not in the public
domain.

Date: 10 May 2008 05:42:16
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo

On May 9, 11:54 am, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> Elo's book, The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, is
> reprinted today.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/0923891277
>
> Professor Elo's book, long out of print and almost impossible to
> obtain, has just been reprinted.
>
> Sam Sloan

I have priced the book at $25.95. The reason for this is that any book
over $25 qualifies for Super Saver Free Shipping. Since Amazon
otherwise charges $3.99 for shipping, this effectively reduces the
price of the book to $21.96.

Before I realized this I priced my books at $24.95 which is of course
the worst possible price.

However, when ordering this book, please be sure to check the box for
Free Super Saver Shipping. Otherwise, you will have to pay the
additional $3.99

Sam Sloan

Date: 10 May 2008 03:07:42
From:
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo

J=FCrgen R. wrote:
> <[email protected]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:4c0f3e4e-9688-4e52-b666-0b9a6ad25018@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 9, 12:54 pm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Elo's book, The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, is
> >> reprinted today.
> >>
> >> http://www.amazon.com/dp/0923891277
> >>
> >> Professor Elo's book, long out of print and almost impossible to
> >> obtain, has just been reprinted.
> >>
> >> Sam Sloan
>
> >I'm still wondering if this book is in the public domain at this
> >time. It was first published in 1978, just 30 years ago. What is the
> >length of copyright for such works?
>
> Elo died in 1992, so most likely the copyright runs until 2062. The
> book was originally published in 1978 by 'Arco', which seems to
> be a vanity label. If you google you find a reference to a 1979
> edition by Batsford. It is possible, therefore, that Batsford
> owns the copyright; also possible that Elo's heirs own it.
>
> It is pretty much certain that Sloan doesn't own the rights
> to this nor to most of the other nonsense he is
> reprinting.
>
> The book itself isn't very interesting, because Elo stretches
> his point and doesn't have a solid grasp of statistical logic.
> However, the basic method, which is elementary, is well
> described in this book and also in 2 papers published
> earlier.
>
> What Sloan means when he says he is
> 'sending the book to the printers' is that he is sending
> a CD with the page images to Amazon. Amazon
> then runs off a copy and glues it together *after*
> somebody orders it.
>
> They don't seem to be very concerned about copyright
> ownership; However, Sloan does have to state that he
> owns the rights. Presumably then Amazon is in
> the clear and it is Sloan who will get sued if the owner
> takes notice and thinks it is worthwhile.
>
> Another aspect of Sloan's current scam is that
> he seems to have no inhibitions about copying
> cover artwork for the pirated reprints.
> This may well be under separate copyright.

Arco was not a vanity press. They published a number of chess books
during the 1970s, including "The Complete Games of Paul Keres," a one-
volume edition of Keres's three books. I assume they were later
gobbled up by one of the bigger fish, but I've never researched it.

Date: 09 May 2008 19:58:13
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo

On May 9, 5:48 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On May 9, 12:54 pm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Elo's book, The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, is
> > reprinted today.
>
> >http://www.amazon.com/dp/0923891277
>
> > Professor Elo's book, long out of print and almost impossible to
> > obtain, has just been reprinted.
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> I'm still wondering if this book is in the public domain at this
> time. It was first published in 1978, just 30 years ago. What is the
> length of copyright for such works?

And, unless I am mistaken, it was published in a second edition in
1987.

Date: 09 May 2008 17:34:38
From:
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo

[email protected] wrote:
> On May 9, 12:54=EF=BF=BDpm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Elo's book, The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, is
> > reprinted today.
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/dp/0923891277
> >
> > Professor Elo's book, long out of print and almost impossible to
> > obtain, has just been reprinted.
> >
> > Sam Sloan
>
> I'm still wondering if this book is in the public domain at this
> time. It was first published in 1978, just 30 years ago. What is the
> length of copyright for such works?

If the intitial copyright date was 1978 or later, author's life plus
70 years. If it was pre-1978, 95 years after the start of copyright.
Unless the copyright holder voluntarily put it in public domain
(possible, I suppose, since I doubt Elo was in it for the money), or
Sloan obtained permission from the copyright holder, he's violating
the law. However, it would be up to whoever currently owns the
copyright to raise the matter.

Date: 09 May 2008 15:48:58
From:
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo

Date: 10 May 2008 10:56:30
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_R.?=
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo reprinted today

<[email protected] > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4c0f3e4e-9688-4e52-b666-0b9a6ad25018@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On May 9, 12:54 pm, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
>> Elo's book, The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, is
>> reprinted today.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/0923891277
>>
>> Professor Elo's book, long out of print and almost impossible to
>> obtain, has just been reprinted.
>>
>> Sam Sloan

>I'm still wondering if this book is in the public domain at this
>time. It was first published in 1978, just 30 years ago. What is the
>length of copyright for such works?

Elo died in 1992, so most likely the copyright runs until 2062. The
book was originally published in 1978 by 'Arco', which seems to
be a vanity label. If you google you find a reference to a 1979
edition by Batsford. It is possible, therefore, that Batsford
owns the copyright; also possible that Elo's heirs own it.

It is pretty much certain that Sloan doesn't own the rights
to this nor to most of the other nonsense he is
reprinting.

The book itself isn't very interesting, because Elo stretches
his point and doesn't have a solid grasp of statistical logic.
However, the basic method, which is elementary, is well
described in this book and also in 2 papers published
earlier.

What Sloan means when he says he is
'sending the book to the printers' is that he is sending
a CD with the page images to Amazon. Amazon
then runs off a copy and glues it together *after*
somebody orders it.

They don't seem to be very concerned about copyright
ownership; However, Sloan does have to state that he
owns the rights. Presumably then Amazon is in
the clear and it is Sloan who will get sued if the owner
takes notice and thinks it is worthwhile.

Another aspect of Sloan's current scam is that
he seems to have no inhibitions about copying
cover artwork for the pirated reprints.
This may well be under separate copyright.

Date: 09 May 2008 14:04:32
From: SBD
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo

On May 9, 3:29 pm, Mike Murray <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Fri, 9 May 2008 13:40:02 -0400, "Chess One" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >I spent half an hour on the phone this week interviewing someone who wants
> >to bring chess ratings into the C21st, and who will additionally provide
> >Chessville with 4 articles on the subject. He operates an outfit in
> >competition to 'standard' ratings, but is still true to Elo - in fact more
> >true than those systems which use ratings floors and ceilings. Phil Innes
>
> So his system cuts sandbaggers and manipulators a little more slack?

Yes it is probably that Chess Express nonsense he has been touting for
some time now.

Date: 10 May 2008 09:34:49
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo reprinted today

"SBD" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On May 9, 3:29 pm, Mike Murray <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Fri, 9 May 2008 13:40:02 -0400, "Chess One" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I spent half an hour on the phone this week interviewing someone who
>> >wants
>> >to bring chess ratings into the C21st, and who will additionally provide
>> >Chessville with 4 articles on the subject. He operates an outfit in
>> >competition to 'standard' ratings, but is still true to Elo - in fact
>> >more
>> >true than those systems which use ratings floors and ceilings. Phil
>> >Innes
>>
>> So his system cuts sandbaggers and manipulators a little more slack?
>
> Yes it is probably that Chess Express nonsense he has been touting for
> some time now.

I think Tanner's political award came from USCF - he got a master's title,
and a rating floor. No one seems to have been responsible for detecting
either sandbagging or manipulating, certainly no one at USCF, and nothing
happened to USCF's system after the 'awards' were made.

After pointing that out in the NY Times Gambit Blog and wondering how many
similar cases there may be, another guy wrote in to say that he asked USCF
for a master's title by sending them a letter requesting one, and they gave
him one, and a ratings floor - they did not look at any playing records
[they threw away pre-1990 records] nor asked him to sign anything.

In the above, Dowd-ing Thomas and Investigator-Murray are happy to cast
aspersions on a system where anything amiss would be immediately visible,
and to the public - alarm bells would sound, and the USCF political award
system could not operate, since this other system is not a /secret/ one ;)

That sort of thing, these guys attest, is 'nonsense'.

What they consider sense is this: Oddly enough, I discovered the USCF rating
award system's political secrets [RASPS] via the writings of Ken Sloan not
Sam Sloan. Sam Sloan merely outed Tanner, but I discovered that Ken Sloan
could offer no explanation for the complete absense of quality control at
USCF's rating department which permitted the situation, and secondly, that
those who proposed Tanner's award for a master title also couldn't spot the
cheat.

This second factor admits that such titles are either completely
uninvigilated, and in fact demonstrate no quality control exists whatever,

OR,

the system is designed to be secret, since then chess burocrats can award
each other titles.

The great irony here is that the very same people who cast a blind eye on
USCF's activities, continue to rubbish others - naturally in the vaguest of
terms, but unnaturally to suggest that others have not solved problems which
continue to exist with USCF's own system.

The vaguer it gets, the more crooked and political it becomes.

The ratings system is either a brand, ie, USCF's, which is therefore an
unbid award system in itself constituing a monopoly, or it is a for-cost
operated system for American chess players.

If it is the first of these, then USCF people will object to any competition
to their rating monopoly - and if it is the second, then it seems a tad
over-priced compared with competition, something like 3x, and in fact a
profit center, not an at-cost service at all.

Phil Innes

Date: 10 May 2008 09:31:16
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo reprinted today

On Sat, 10 May 2008 09:34:49 -0400, "Chess One" <[email protected] >
wrote:

>... I discovered that Ken Sloan
>could offer no explanation for the complete absense of quality control at
>USCF's rating department which permitted the situation, and secondly, that
>those who proposed Tanner's award for a master title also couldn't spot the
>cheat.

Phil confuses quality control with fraud detection. The best guard
against the latter is free and open public access to rating and event
history, and an open forum for members' questions and comments about
what appear to be ratings anomalies (named or otherwise, Phil, heh,
heh, heh).

Phil's prattle about QC vis-a-vis titles is ironic, given his aid,
comfort and general flackery in favor of questionable claims by one
well known USCF board member.

Date: 09 May 2008 13:40:02
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo reprinted today

I spent half an hour on the phone this week interviewing someone who wants
to bring chess ratings into the C21st, and who will additionally provide
Chessville with 4 articles on the subject. He operates an outfit in
competition to 'standard' ratings, but is still true to Elo - in fact more
true than those systems which use ratings floors and ceilings. Phil Innes

"samsloan" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:f146cc2c-8b78-4052-a0e1-13422223dd30@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Elo's book, The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, is
> reprinted today.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/0923891277
>
> Professor Elo's book, long out of print and almost impossible to
> obtain, has just been reprinted.
>
> Sam Sloan

Date: 09 May 2008 13:29:37
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: The Rating of Chess Players, Past and Present, by Arpad Elo reprinted today

On Fri, 9 May 2008 13:40:02 -0400, "Chess One" <[email protected] >
wrote:

>I spent half an hour on the phone this week interviewing someone who wants
>to bring chess ratings into the C21st, and who will additionally provide
>Chessville with 4 articles on the subject. He operates an outfit in
>competition to 'standard' ratings, but is still true to Elo - in fact more
>true than those systems which use ratings floors and ceilings. Phil Innes

So his system cuts sandbaggers and manipulators a little more slack?