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Main
Date: 23 Oct 2008 10:43:35
From: chessplayer
Subject: The Latest FIDE ratings put Topalov on top
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I saw these ratings in a newspaper. Are they the latest for if they
are the following are the rankings as per FIDE
1. Veselin Topalov (Bulgaria) 2791
2. Alexander Morozevich (Rus) 2787
3. Vassily Ivanchuk (UKR) 2786
4. Magnus Carlsen (NOR) 2786
5. Viswanathan Anand (IND) 2783
6. Vladmir Kramnik (RUS) 2772
7. Levon Aronian (ARM) 2757
8. Teimour Radjabov (AZE) 2751
9. Peter Leko (HUN) 2747
10. Dmitry Jakovenko (RUS) 2737
Now even if these were before the current match the fact remains that
Topalov should have taken on either Anand or Kramnik for the
championship match.
How can you have the current world number 5 and world number 6 play a
match for the world championship. What kind of wierd logic is this.
If Kramnik is considered the last FIDE true world champion the honor
to dethrone him should have gone to Topalov. If Anand is considered
the current true world champion the honor to dethrone him should have
gone to Topalov. Either way Topalov should have played this
championship. One hopes that he gets the opportunity to play with
Anand (most likely) for the next world championship.
I would like to add that since ELO ratings at this level are very
difficult to raise and Anand is beating a player who is lower than
him, he should not get more than a point per game won (exact figure
can be known by someone who is an expert at calculating it) and
therefore at best we can see him at a 3 way tie with Ivanchuk and
Carlsen.
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Date: 30 Oct 2008 22:38:11
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: The Latest FIDE ratings put Topalov on top
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On Oct 26, 4:40=A0pm, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
> chessplayer <[email protected]> wrote:
> > So, how does the championship match work. Shouldn't the current
> > champion take on the player who is currently rated number 1 or do
> > they decide that since Kramnik was the past champion he plays Anand
> > as a chance to regain the title. Now if he loses I presume he will
> > not get another chance and Anand should next play Topalov in the
> > next championship. So, how do they determine who the current FIDE
> > champion (which you have written above is Anand) will play in the
> > championship match. :)
>
> Normally, the reigning world champion plays a match against a
> challenger. =A0if the challenger wins, he is the new champion; if the
> match is drawn or the champion wins, then his reign continues. =A0Before
> WWII, the challenger was chosen, essentially, at the whim of the
> current champion. =A0Between WWII and 1993 FIDE chose the challenger by
> having a series of continental tournaments that selected a pool of
> players who then played knock-out matches to determine a challenger.
> In 1993, the championship split because Kasparov felt that FIDE was no
> longer competent to organize the process.
>
> FIDE continued to organize their own championship and there was a
> parallel `successor-of-Kasparov' championship. =A0The FIDE championship,
> after a while, was just determined by playing an ordinary tournament
> among the top players. =A0The successor-of-Kasparov was determined by
> matches; it was intended that a mirror of the FIDE challenger-
> selection system would be set up but it never happened and the
> challenger ended up being chosen more at the whim of the current
> champion as before.
>
> The current mess is an attempt to reunify the two championships. =A0To
> do so, it is necessary to make political considerations and make lots
> of exceptions for various things.
>
> If you want more detail, I strongly recommend that you do some
> Googling.
Thanks. :)
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0Expensive Shack (TM): it's like awww.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/=A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 house in the woods but it'll break
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 the bank!
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Date: 26 Oct 2008 18:11:33
From: EJAY
Subject: Re: The Latest FIDE ratings put Topalov on top
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On Oct 24, 10:51=A0am, [email protected] (Ed Gaillard) wrote:
> In article <[email protected].=
com >,
>
> chessplayer =A0<[email protected]> wrote:
> >championship. So, how do they determine who the current FIDE champion
> >(which you have written above is Anand) will play in the championship
> >match. :)
>
> Anand is playing Kramnik because Kramnik was the immediate past
> champion, having won a match against Topalov in 2006. =A0Anand won the
> title in a tournament in 2007. =A0Since matches are the traditional
> method of determining the champion, so it seemed right to give a match
> to the last champion who won the title in a match.
>
> The next challenger, who will play the winner of Anand-Kramnik (almost
> certainly Anand given the state of teh match right now) is _supposed_
> to be the winner of an upcoming match between Topalov and Gata Kamsky.
>
> Topalov is in that match _not_ because he's the top-rated player--he
> wasn't when the match was determined--but because he is the past
> champion who, for reasons too complicated for me to explain, was
> excluded from the tounament in which Anand won the title.
>
> There's a possihbility that the Kamsky-Topalov match might not happen
> because of financial and other problems.
>
> Who's number one on the rating list is irrelevant to who the
> challenger is. =A0That's normally determined by who wins certain
> events.
>
> -ed g.
Very well stated !!! E-JAY
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Date: 25 Oct 2008 22:13:33
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: The Latest FIDE ratings put Topalov on top
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On Oct 24, 8:51=A0pm, [email protected] (Ed Gaillard) wrote:
> In article <[email protected].=
com >,
>
> chessplayer =A0<[email protected]> wrote:
> >championship. So, how do they determine who the current FIDE champion
> >(which you have written above is Anand) will play in the championship
> >match. :)
>
> Anand is playing Kramnik because Kramnik was the immediate past
> champion, having won a match against Topalov in 2006. =A0Anand won the
> title in a tournament in 2007. =A0Since matches are the traditional
> method of determining the champion, so it seemed right to give a match
> to the last champion who won the title in a match.
>
> The next challenger, who will play the winner of Anand-Kramnik (almost
> certainly Anand given the state of teh match right now) is _supposed_
> to be the winner of an upcoming match between Topalov and Gata Kamsky.
>
> Topalov is in that match _not_ because he's the top-rated player--he
> wasn't when the match was determined--but because he is the past
> champion who, for reasons too complicated for me to explain, was
> excluded from the tounament in which Anand won the title.
>
> There's a possihbility that the Kamsky-Topalov match might not happen
> because of financial and other problems.
That would be sad indeed. However, even if that match up doesn't
happen I hope FIDE still puts Anand and Topalov in a match up. It
would certainly be exciting to watch and IMHO probably even more
exciting than the current match going on.
>
> Who's number one on the rating list is irrelevant to who the
> challenger is. =A0That's normally determined by who wins certain
> events.
>
> -ed g.
>
> --
> Caissa have mercy on a miserable patzer:http://altergoniff.blogspot.com
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Date: 25 Oct 2008 22:11:35
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: The Latest FIDE ratings put Topalov on top
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On Oct 24, 12:40=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 24, 3:20=A0am, chessplayer <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 24, 6:31=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 23, 1:43=A0pm, chessplayer <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > I saw these ratings in a newspaper. Are they the latest for if they
> > > > are the following are the rankings as per FIDE
>
> > > > 1. Veselin Topalov (Bulgaria) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2791
> > > > 2. Alexander Morozevich (Rus) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02787
> > > > 3. Vassily Ivanchuk (UKR) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2786
> > > > 4. Magnus Carlsen (NOR) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2786
> > > > 5. Viswanathan Anand (IND) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02783
> > > > 6. Vladmir Kramnik (RUS) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0277=
2
> > > > 7. Levon Aronian (ARM) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A02757
> > > > 8. Teimour Radjabov (AZE) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02751
> > > > 9. Peter Leko (HUN) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
=A0 =A0 2747
> > > > 10. Dmitry Jakovenko (RUS) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02737
>
> > > > How can you have the current world number 5 and world number 6 play=
a
> > > > match for the world championship. What kind of wierd logic is this.
>
> > > I believe Kramnik defeated Topalov in a Championship Match. Anand did
> > > win the World Championship in Mexico City back in 2007. Both Kramnik
> > > and Anand are entitled to the Championship Match. Topalov-Kamsky
> > > winner (if that Match occurs) will get the winner.Anand had a terribl=
e
> > > tournament dropping him down to #5 but as this Match is progressing h=
e
> > > did not have his "A" game Opening systems in place for that tourney. =
I
> > > suspect he was obligated to play so we did not se his true form.Anand
> > > has been in the Top 3 for the most part since Kasparov
> > > resigned.Kramnik's form has been up and down for years but he did
> > > manage to defeat topalov in their Match.Granted he won on tie breaks
> > > which is a another issue.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > So, should Anand win (and it looks like he will win this match up) and
> > should Topalov defeat Kamsky which he should, we will get to see a
> > Topalov Anand match up next time. That would be an exciting 12 game
> > scenario played in classical chess. :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> That is my understanding.It seems last I heard there are problems with
> the Topalov-Kamsky Match.Topalov of course would be favored but Kamsky
> at the top of his game is very solid and strong. Kamsky's openings
> maybe a weakness but in Match play years ago he defeated both Kramnik
> and Anand.Don't count kamsky out.
If that's the case than I'm looking forward to that match. However, I
honestly believe that a Topalov Anand match up would be even more
exciting than the current Anand Kramnik match.
- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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Date: 24 Oct 2008 00:40:25
From:
Subject: Re: The Latest FIDE ratings put Topalov on top
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On Oct 24, 3:20=A0am, chessplayer <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 24, 6:31=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 23, 1:43=A0pm, chessplayer <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > I saw these ratings in a newspaper. Are they the latest for if they
> > > are the following are the rankings as per FIDE
>
> > > 1. Veselin Topalov (Bulgaria) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2791
> > > 2. Alexander Morozevich (Rus) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02787
> > > 3. Vassily Ivanchuk (UKR) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2786
> > > 4. Magnus Carlsen (NOR) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2786
> > > 5. Viswanathan Anand (IND) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02783
> > > 6. Vladmir Kramnik (RUS) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02772
> > > 7. Levon Aronian (ARM) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A02757
> > > 8. Teimour Radjabov (AZE) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02751
> > > 9. Peter Leko (HUN) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 2747
> > > 10. Dmitry Jakovenko (RUS) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02737
>
> > > How can you have the current world number 5 and world number 6 play a
> > > match for the world championship. What kind of wierd logic is this.
>
> > I believe Kramnik defeated Topalov in a Championship Match. Anand did
> > win the World Championship in Mexico City back in 2007. Both Kramnik
> > and Anand are entitled to the Championship Match. Topalov-Kamsky
> > winner (if that Match occurs) will get the winner.Anand had a terrible
> > tournament dropping him down to #5 but as this Match is progressing he
> > did not have his "A" game Opening systems in place for that tourney. I
> > suspect he was obligated to play so we did not se his true form.Anand
> > has been in the Top 3 for the most part since Kasparov
> > resigned.Kramnik's form has been up and down for years but he did
> > manage to defeat topalov in their Match.Granted he won on tie breaks
> > which is a another issue.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> So, should Anand win (and it looks like he will win this match up) and
> should Topalov defeat Kamsky which he should, we will get to see a
> Topalov Anand match up next time. That would be an exciting 12 game
> scenario played in classical chess. :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
That is my understanding.It seems last I heard there are problems with
the Topalov-Kamsky Match.Topalov of course would be favored but Kamsky
at the top of his game is very solid and strong. Kamsky's openings
maybe a weakness but in Match play years ago he defeated both Kramnik
and Anand.Don't count kamsky out.
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Date: 24 Oct 2008 00:37:18
From:
Subject: Re: The Latest FIDE ratings put Topalov on top
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Not sure how to answer the FIDE Championship cycle question. Anand won
the Title in 2007 in the FIDE Championship tourney in 2007.Topalov the
2005 (or 2006) FIDE Champion lost a "Unification" Championship Match
to Kramnik (The Classical Champion) in 2006. Part of the unification
"agreement" is that the loser of that Match was NOT invited to the
FIDE 2007 Championship Tournament a decision that was grossly unfair
to the loser.There was some sort of qualifying system ( I don't
remember the details) and players like
Morozevich,Svidler,Leko,Grischuk,Aronian,Gelfand and a few others
participated in the 2007 tourney. If my memory is correct Carlsen did
not participate/qualify.
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Date: 24 Oct 2008 00:20:44
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: The Latest FIDE ratings put Topalov on top
|
On Oct 24, 6:31=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 23, 1:43=A0pm, chessplayer <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I saw these ratings in a newspaper. Are they the latest for if they
> > are the following are the rankings as per FIDE
>
> > 1. Veselin Topalov (Bulgaria) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2791
> > 2. Alexander Morozevich (Rus) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02787
> > 3. Vassily Ivanchuk (UKR) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2786
> > 4. Magnus Carlsen (NOR) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2786
> > 5. Viswanathan Anand (IND) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02783
> > 6. Vladmir Kramnik (RUS) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02772
> > 7. Levon Aronian (ARM) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02=
757
> > 8. Teimour Radjabov (AZE) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02751
> > 9. Peter Leko (HUN) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
=A0 2747
> > 10. Dmitry Jakovenko (RUS) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02737
>
> > How can you have the current world number 5 and world number 6 play a
> > match for the world championship. What kind of wierd logic is this.
>
> I believe Kramnik defeated Topalov in a Championship Match. Anand did
> win the World Championship in Mexico City back in 2007. Both Kramnik
> and Anand are entitled to the Championship Match. Topalov-Kamsky
> winner (if that Match occurs) will get the winner.Anand had a terrible
> tournament dropping him down to #5 but as this Match is progressing he
> did not have his "A" game Opening systems in place for that tourney. I
> suspect he was obligated to play so we did not se his true form.Anand
> has been in the Top 3 for the most part since Kasparov
> resigned.Kramnik's form has been up and down for years but he did
> manage to defeat topalov in their Match.Granted he won on tie breaks
> which is a another issue.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
So, should Anand win (and it looks like he will win this match up) and
should Topalov defeat Kamsky which he should, we will get to see a
Topalov Anand match up next time. That would be an exciting 12 game
scenario played in classical chess. :)
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Date: 24 Oct 2008 00:18:09
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: The Latest FIDE ratings put Topalov on top
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On Oct 24, 2:35=A0am, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
> chessplayer <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I saw these ratings in a newspaper. Are they the latest for if they
> > are the following are the rankings as per FIDE
>
> > 1. Veselin Topalov (Bulgaria) 2791
> > 2. Alexander Morozevich (Rus) 2787
> > 3. Vassily Ivanchuk (UKR) =A0 =A0 2786
> > 4. Magnus Carlsen (NOR) =A0 =A0 =A0 2786
> > 5. Viswanathan Anand (IND) =A0 =A02783
> > 6. Vladmir Kramnik (RUS) =A0 =A0 =A02772
> > 7. Levon Aronian (ARM) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02757
> > 8. Teimour Radjabov (AZE) =A0 =A0 2751
> > 9. Peter Leko (HUN) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2747
> > 10. Dmitry Jakovenko (RUS) =A0 =A02737
>
> That's the current FIDE top ten, yes.
>
> http://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=3Dmen=A0
>
> > Now even if these were before the current match the fact remains
> > that Topalov should have taken on either Anand or Kramnik for the
> > championship match.
>
> > How can you have the current world number 5 and world number 6 play
> > a match for the world championship. What kind of wierd logic is
> > this.
>
> The eight-point rating difference between Topalov and Anand
> corresponds to an expected score of about 51-49 in Topalov's favour,
> if they were to play a 100-game match. =A0Even the nineteen-point
> difference between Topalov and Kramnik only corresponds to Topalov
> winning 53-47 (i.e., winning three more games out of every hundred).
>
> The ratings really can't tell you which of the top five is the `best'
> player. =A0And there's no guarantee that there is a `best' player. =A0It'=
s
> perfectly possible that differences in playing style mean that A
> usually beats B, B usually beats C and C usually beats A.
>
> > If Kramnik is considered the last FIDE true world champion the honor
> > to dethrone him should have gone to Topalov.
>
> Topalov lost a world championship match to Kramnik in 2006, even after
> Kramnik forfeited a game in protest at a change to the playing
> conditions.
>
> > If Anand is considered the current true world champion the honor to
> > dethrone him should have gone to Topalov. Either way Topalov should
> > have played this championship. One hopes that he gets the
> > opportunity to play with Anand (most likely) for the next world
> > championship.
>
> Anand is the reigning FIDE champion. =A0I suggest that you read
So, how does the championship match work. Shouldn't the current
champion take on the player who is currently rated number 1 or do they
decide that since Kramnik was the past champion he plays Anand as a
chance to regain the title. Now if he loses I presume he will not get
another chance and Anand should next play Topalov in the next
championship. So, how do they determine who the current FIDE champion
(which you have written above is Anand) will play in the championship
match. :)
>
> =A0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship_2007
> =A0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship_2008
>
> for the background. =A0Essentially, the process is anomalous because of
> bargaining to unify the FIDE championship with the successor-of-
> Kasparov championship and end the schism that resulted from the 1993
> match between Kasparov and Short.
>
> However, you should note that the contestants in world championship
> matches have *never* been decided by either taking the two top-rated
> players or the current champion and the next-highest rated player.
>
> > I would like to add that since ELO ratings at this level are very
> > difficult to raise and Anand is beating a player who is lower than
> > him, he should not get more than a point per game won (exact figure
> > can be known by someone who is an expert at calculating it) and
> > therefore at best we can see him at a 3 way tie with Ivanchuk and
> > Carlsen.
>
> You're mistaken. =A0Elo ratings work by difference in ratings so it's
> just as hard for a 2800 player to gain rating points against another
> 2800 player as it is for a 2500 player playing another 2500.
>
> The formula for each game is as follows. =A0First, compute the expected
> score based on the ratings. =A0For Anand and Kramnik, we expect Anand to
> score 0.52 points per game and Kramnik 0.48 points. =A0The rating change
> is the difference between the number of points actually scored (1, 1/2
> or 0) and the expected number, multiplied that by ten. =A0(For lower-
> rated players, this `K-factor' is 15; for players still in their first
> 30 games, it's 25.)
>
> Therefore, for each game Anand wins, he gains (1 - 0.52) * 10 =3D 4.8
> rating points. =A0For each draw, he loses (0.52 - 0.5) * 10 =3D 0.2 of a
> rating point and, if loses a game, he'll lose (0.52 - 0) * 10 =3D 5.2
> points.
>
> Thus, from three wins and four draws, Anand is currently 13.6 points
> up.
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Me=
xi-Dictator (TM): it's like awww.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/=A0 =A0 =A0=
=A0totalitarian leader that comes from
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Mexico!
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Date: 26 Oct 2008 11:40:27
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: The Latest FIDE ratings put Topalov on top
|
chessplayer <[email protected] > wrote:
> So, how does the championship match work. Shouldn't the current
> champion take on the player who is currently rated number 1 or do
> they decide that since Kramnik was the past champion he plays Anand
> as a chance to regain the title. Now if he loses I presume he will
> not get another chance and Anand should next play Topalov in the
> next championship. So, how do they determine who the current FIDE
> champion (which you have written above is Anand) will play in the
> championship match. :)
Normally, the reigning world champion plays a match against a
challenger. if the challenger wins, he is the new champion; if the
match is drawn or the champion wins, then his reign continues. Before
WWII, the challenger was chosen, essentially, at the whim of the
current champion. Between WWII and 1993 FIDE chose the challenger by
having a series of continental tournaments that selected a pool of
players who then played knock-out matches to determine a challenger.
In 1993, the championship split because Kasparov felt that FIDE was no
longer competent to organize the process.
FIDE continued to organize their own championship and there was a
parallel `successor-of-Kasparov' championship. The FIDE championship,
after a while, was just determined by playing an ordinary tournament
among the top players. The successor-of-Kasparov was determined by
matches; it was intended that a mirror of the FIDE challenger-
selection system would be set up but it never happened and the
challenger ended up being chosen more at the whim of the current
champion as before.
The current mess is an attempt to reunify the two championships. To
do so, it is necessary to make political considerations and make lots
of exceptions for various things.
If you want more detail, I strongly recommend that you do some
Googling.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Expensive Shack (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ house in the woods but it'll break
the bank!
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Date: 24 Oct 2008 15:51:01
From: Ed Gaillard
Subject: Re: The Latest FIDE ratings put Topalov on top
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In article <[email protected] >,
chessplayer <[email protected] > wrote:
>championship. So, how do they determine who the current FIDE champion
>(which you have written above is Anand) will play in the championship
>match. :)
Anand is playing Kramnik because Kramnik was the immediate past
champion, having won a match against Topalov in 2006. Anand won the
title in a tournament in 2007. Since matches are the traditional
method of determining the champion, so it seemed right to give a match
to the last champion who won the title in a match.
The next challenger, who will play the winner of Anand-Kramnik (almost
certainly Anand given the state of teh match right now) is _supposed_
to be the winner of an upcoming match between Topalov and Gata Kamsky.
Topalov is in that match _not_ because he's the top-rated player--he
wasn't when the match was determined--but because he is the past
champion who, for reasons too complicated for me to explain, was
excluded from the tounament in which Anand won the title.
There's a possihbility that the Kamsky-Topalov match might not happen
because of financial and other problems.
Who's number one on the rating list is irrelevant to who the
challenger is. That's normally determined by who wins certain
events.
-ed g.
--
Caissa have mercy on a miserable patzer: http://altergoniff.blogspot.com
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Date: 25 Oct 2008 12:54:47
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: The Latest FIDE ratings put Topalov on top
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Si if Top and Gata do not play each other will they just give Top the
chance at Anand ?
I want Gata to play Anand..
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Date: 23 Oct 2008 18:31:15
From:
Subject: Re: The Latest FIDE ratings put Topalov on top
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On Oct 23, 1:43=A0pm, chessplayer <[email protected] > wrote:
> I saw these ratings in a newspaper. Are they the latest for if they
> are the following are the rankings as per FIDE
>
> 1. Veselin Topalov (Bulgaria) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2791
> 2. Alexander Morozevich (Rus) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02787
> 3. Vassily Ivanchuk (UKR) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2786
> 4. Magnus Carlsen (NOR) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2786
> 5. Viswanathan Anand (IND) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02783
> 6. Vladmir Kramnik (RUS) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02772
> 7. Levon Aronian (ARM) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0275=
7
> 8. Teimour Radjabov (AZE) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02751
> 9. Peter Leko (HUN) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 2747
> 10. Dmitry Jakovenko (RUS) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02737
>
>
> How can you have the current world number 5 and world number 6 play a
> match for the world championship. What kind of wierd logic is this.
I believe Kramnik defeated Topalov in a Championship Match. Anand did
win the World Championship in Mexico City back in 2007. Both Kramnik
and Anand are entitled to the Championship Match. Topalov-Kamsky
winner (if that Match occurs) will get the winner.Anand had a terrible
tournament dropping him down to #5 but as this Match is progressing he
did not have his "A" game Opening systems in place for that tourney. I
suspect he was obligated to play so we did not se his true form.Anand
has been in the Top 3 for the most part since Kasparov
resigned.Kramnik's form has been up and down for years but he did
manage to defeat topalov in their Match.Granted he won on tie breaks
which is a another issue.
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Date: 23 Oct 2008 22:35:47
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: The Latest FIDE ratings put Topalov on top
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chessplayer <[email protected] > wrote:
> I saw these ratings in a newspaper. Are they the latest for if they
> are the following are the rankings as per FIDE
>
> 1. Veselin Topalov (Bulgaria) 2791
> 2. Alexander Morozevich (Rus) 2787
> 3. Vassily Ivanchuk (UKR) 2786
> 4. Magnus Carlsen (NOR) 2786
> 5. Viswanathan Anand (IND) 2783
> 6. Vladmir Kramnik (RUS) 2772
> 7. Levon Aronian (ARM) 2757
> 8. Teimour Radjabov (AZE) 2751
> 9. Peter Leko (HUN) 2747
> 10. Dmitry Jakovenko (RUS) 2737
That's the current FIDE top ten, yes.
http://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men
> Now even if these were before the current match the fact remains
> that Topalov should have taken on either Anand or Kramnik for the
> championship match.
>
> How can you have the current world number 5 and world number 6 play
> a match for the world championship. What kind of wierd logic is
> this.
The eight-point rating difference between Topalov and Anand
corresponds to an expected score of about 51-49 in Topalov's favour,
if they were to play a 100-game match. Even the nineteen-point
difference between Topalov and Kramnik only corresponds to Topalov
winning 53-47 (i.e., winning three more games out of every hundred).
The ratings really can't tell you which of the top five is the `best'
player. And there's no guarantee that there is a `best' player. It's
perfectly possible that differences in playing style mean that A
usually beats B, B usually beats C and C usually beats A.
> If Kramnik is considered the last FIDE true world champion the honor
> to dethrone him should have gone to Topalov.
Topalov lost a world championship match to Kramnik in 2006, even after
Kramnik forfeited a game in protest at a change to the playing
conditions.
> If Anand is considered the current true world champion the honor to
> dethrone him should have gone to Topalov. Either way Topalov should
> have played this championship. One hopes that he gets the
> opportunity to play with Anand (most likely) for the next world
> championship.
Anand is the reigning FIDE champion. I suggest that you read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship_2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship_2008
for the background. Essentially, the process is anomalous because of
bargaining to unify the FIDE championship with the successor-of-
Kasparov championship and end the schism that resulted from the 1993
match between Kasparov and Short.
However, you should note that the contestants in world championship
matches have *never* been decided by either taking the two top-rated
players or the current champion and the next-highest rated player.
> I would like to add that since ELO ratings at this level are very
> difficult to raise and Anand is beating a player who is lower than
> him, he should not get more than a point per game won (exact figure
> can be known by someone who is an expert at calculating it) and
> therefore at best we can see him at a 3 way tie with Ivanchuk and
> Carlsen.
You're mistaken. Elo ratings work by difference in ratings so it's
just as hard for a 2800 player to gain rating points against another
2800 player as it is for a 2500 player playing another 2500.
The formula for each game is as follows. First, compute the expected
score based on the ratings. For Anand and Kramnik, we expect Anand to
score 0.52 points per game and Kramnik 0.48 points. The rating change
is the difference between the number of points actually scored (1, 1/2
or 0) and the expected number, multiplied that by ten. (For lower-
rated players, this `K-factor' is 15; for players still in their first
30 games, it's 25.)
Therefore, for each game Anand wins, he gains (1 - 0.52) * 10 = 4.8
rating points. For each draw, he loses (0.52 - 0.5) * 10 = 0.2 of a
rating point and, if loses a game, he'll lose (0.52 - 0) * 10 = 5.2
points.
Thus, from three wins and four draws, Anand is currently 13.6 points
up.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Mexi-Dictator (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ totalitarian leader that comes from
Mexico!
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