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Date: 12 Jan 2005 21:18:43
From: [email protected]
Subject: That opening Pin that makes me a look like a fool...
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Hey Folks,
I am new to the game of chess and was wondering how I can beat this pin
put on my knight. It seems like almost every game I get a knight
pinned. HEre is an example:
1.d4 d6 2.Nf3 Bg4 3.c4 e5
After looking over this game, are there any other more aggresive moves
I can make? Would 4.)Bg5 force black to a 4.)...Qxg5 then 5.) Nxg5? Or
would black attack my center pawn instead?
I guess my question may be very basic, but I am getting sick being at a
disadvantage so early. It stinks getting punked so early, and often
times so quickly! Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Patrick
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Date: 25 Feb 2005 08:42:49
From:
Subject: Re: That opening Pin that makes me a look like a fool...
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[email protected] wrote:
> I am new to the game of chess and was wondering how I can beat this
pin
> put on my knight. It seems like almost every game I get a knight
> pinned. HEre is an example:
>
> 1.d4 d6 2.Nf3 Bg4 3.c4 e5
What you describe is not a pin, since the bishop in no way prevents
the knight from moving until White moves his e-pawn. Also, the move
does not place you at any real disadvantage at that point. Unless you
start out playing h2-h3 and a2-a3 very early (and that's not usually a
good idea), it's almost impossible to prevent Black from playing
bishops to b4 and/or g4 to hit on knights at c3 and/or f3. But it's
no big deal.
The line you show is called the Tartakower variation of the Old
Indian Defense, it is rather seldom played, and when it is, the more
common move order is 1.Nf3 d6 2.d4 Bg4. Even less common are the
further moves you give, 3.c4 e5. This seems to me a rather drab line
that Black would play only if he is willing to let the life out of the
game as soon as possible. I found two high-level games using this line,
and they show two differing approaches by White:
Kramnik-Nikolic, Monte Carlo 1996: 1. Nf3 d6 2. d4 Bg4 3. c4 e5 4. dxe5
Bxf3 5. exf3 dxe5 6. Qxd8 Kxd8 7. Nc3 Nd7 8. f4 Bd6 9. fxe5 -
Creating a very symmetrical, drawish pawn structure. 9...Bxe5 10. Bd2
Ngf6 11. O-O-O Re8 12. f4 Bd4 13. Nb5 Bf2 14. g3 a6 15. Na3 Be3 16. Bh3
Bxd2 17. Rxd2 Re7 18. Rhd1 Ke8 19. b4 g6 20. c5 Nf8 21. Nc4 Ne6 22. Bg2
c6 23. f5 gxf5 24. Nd6 Kf8 25. Nxf5 Rc7 26. a3 a5 27. Kb2 axb4 28. axb4
Rb8 29. Ra1 b6 30. cxb6 Rcb7 31. Ra6 Rxb6 32. Rxb6 Rxb6 33. Kc3 c5 34.
bxc5 Rb5 [=BD:=BD]
Sadler-Ribeiro, Linares 1995: 1. d4 d6 2. c4 e5 3. Nf3 Bg4 4. Qb3 -
This seems a better bet if White wants to try for a win. 4...Bxf3 5.
Qxf3 Nc6 6. d5 Nb8 7. Nc3 Nd7 8. e4 g6 9. Be2 h5 10. O-O Bh6 11. b4 a5
12. a3 axb4 13. Bxh6 Nxh6 14. axb4 O-O 15. Nb5 Rxa1 16. Rxa1 Kg7 17.
Ra7 Qb8 18. Qa3 Nf6 19. Bd3 c6 20. dxc6 bxc6 21. Nc7 Rc8 22. Qa5 d5 23.
cxd5 cxd5 24. exd5 e4 25. Bf1 Nf5 26. b5 Nd6 27. b6 Nb7 28. Qa3 Rxc7
29. bxc7 Qxc7 30. Qb2 e3 31. fxe3 [1:0]
Of course, as others have already pointed out here, you can avoid all
this with 2.e4, when if Black replies 2...Nf6 you have transposed into
the Pirc Defense, more often reached by 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6. There is a
lot of literature you can study on this line.
I hope this helps.
Taylor Kingston
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Date: 21 Jan 2005 13:39:49
From: gromit
Subject: Re: That opening Pin that makes me a look like a fool...
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This is a great guide on when to allow, and when to prevent, such pins:
http://www.chesscafe.com/heisman/heisman.htm
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Date: 22 Jan 2005 07:42:19
From: Terry
Subject: Re: That opening Pin that makes me a look like a fool...
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"gromit" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is a great guide on when to allow, and when to prevent, such pins:
>
> http://www.chesscafe.com/heisman/heisman.htm
>
An excellent article.
Regards
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Date: 18 Jan 2005 00:32:43
From: Mark S. Hathaway
Subject: Re: That opening Pin that makes me a look like a fool...
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[email protected] wrote:
> I am new to the game of chess and was wondering how I can beat this pin
> put on my knight. It seems like almost every game I get a knight
> pinned. HEre is an example:
>
> 1.d4 d6 2.Nf3 Bg4 3.c4 e5
>
> After looking over this game, are there any other more aggresive moves
> I can make?
> I guess my question may be very basic, but I am getting sick being at a
> disadvantage so early. It stinks getting punked so early, and often
> times so quickly! Any suggestions?
It's not a pin until the e-pawn is moved and a more
valuable piece is "behind" the knight (presumably Qd1).
Pins are a powerful tactic and learning to deal
with them is very important. Computer programs, for
example, are very adept at using pins.
First, knowing that bishops are generally regarded as
more valuable than knights it makes some sense to allow
(or even provoke) Black into the capture ...Bg4xf3, so
you can "win" material.
Second, it's usually considered better to allow this with
pins on the queen-side (at c3) because a king-side pin
naturally involves the area around Ke1. One wants to have
a nice safe place for the king to last a long time.
Third, once you're paying attention to some of these
details then you will naturally see some pins you'll
want to avoid by providing for something like Be2 to
"break the pin" or a way to move Qd1 away, so the pin
doesn't last and your pieces aren't tied up.
Take for example a line from the Scandinavian:
1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 (Nc3 isn't pinned yet)
4. d4 (now it's pinned) Nf6 5. Nf3 Bg4 (not considered
as good as ...Bf5) 6. h3 (provoking a good trade) Bh5
7. g4 (finally chasing the B away, but weakening the king-side)
7...Bg6 8. Ne5 (using the knight to threaten Nxg6, gaining
the B for N anyway) 8...e6 9. h4 (trying to outright win Bg6
with f2-f3 to guard e4, h4-h5) 9...h6? 10. Nxg6 ("winning"
the B for N and forcing weaknesses in Black's king-side.
The details in knowing when this or that provocation and
maneuver usually involves much opening study and play.
It's better for beginners to stick to simpler things like:
1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nf3 Bg4?! 4. Be2 (breaking the
pin immediately) 4...Nd7 5. O-O e5? (Black tries to take
complete control of the center) 6. Nxe5 (breaking the pin
and attacking Bg4 simultaneously, while also opening the
e-file to create threats to Ke2).
This sort of simple management of development and king
safety is doable and a good approach for many players.
With the knowledge of how to play basic opening ideas
it becomes easier to deal with new situations that arise
when your opponent plays stuff you've never seen before.
BTW, the examples I've given are correct to a point and
then I showed some errors which demonstrate a point about
pins and how to deal with them.
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Date: 13 Jan 2005 22:00:11
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: That opening Pin that makes me a look like a fool...
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Hey Ron,
Thanks for the advice. Looking over the game again, 2.E4 is the best
move for me. Can't wait to put your advice into action soon!
Patrick
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Date: 12 Jan 2005 22:24:47
From: Ron
Subject: Re: That opening Pin that makes me a look like a fool...
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In article <[email protected] >,
"[email protected]" <[email protected] > wrote:
> Hey Folks,
>
> I am new to the game of chess and was wondering how I can beat this pin
> put on my knight. It seems like almost every game I get a knight
> pinned. HEre is an example:
>
> 1.d4 d6 2.Nf3 Bg4 3.c4 e5
Well, first of all, why are you so afraid of the pin?
Beginners often overvalue knights because they're tricky, but it's
usually a mistake to pin a knight like this before your opponent has
castled. Certainly Bg4 doesn't look like it's part of any sensible plan,
yet. If black trades, he could have some seriously weak light-squares
later.
In the position given, black is threatening exd4 or e4. Note, however,
that the knight isn't pinned! eg 4. Nc3 e4?! and the knight just hops to
d2 or g5 or back to f1. In fact, I'm confident that after 4.Nc3, almost
every good player would simply play exd5.
Look at the position you gave again. White is winning. He's not going
to play Nc4. He's going to play dxe5!
4.dxe5 dxe5 5.Qxd8+ Kxd8 6.Nxe5 wins a pawn for nothing, so black has
to play:
4.dxe5 Bxf3 5.exf3 (gxf3 also works) dxe5 and white has the bishop pair
in a position where central pawns have already been exchanged. The
doubled pawn is only a minor weakness because (in comparison to, say,
the Exchange Ruy) black really doesn't have any immediate threats. White
can trade queens of not (although I probably wouldn't.)
But I'd like to look before that. A game of chess beings on move one.
1.d4 d6 2.Nf3.
You can't play chess by rote. While this move isn't bad, black has done
nothing to stop 2.e4, so why not play e4? (Black's three most popular
responses -- by a landslide -- to 1.d4 are d5, Nf6, and f5. You hardly
see anything else by strong players. Why? Because all these moves stop
white from setting up a strong center with 2.e4; black neglected to do
that here. Punish him!*)
but anyway, you played 2.Nf3 Bg4. But again... e4 is available. Why
aren't you playing it? This is absolutely the correct move now. 2.c4
isn't neccesary yet because black isn't contesting the d4 square at all.
-Ron
*okay, I know 2.e4 allows a transition to a pirc/modern, which is a
perfectly reasonable play for black.
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Date: 13 Jan 2005 20:17:58
From: Mike Hunt
Subject: Re: That opening Pin that makes me a look like a fool...
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Ron <[email protected] > wrote in news:ronaldinho_m-
[email protected]:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hey Folks,
>>
>> I am new to the game of chess and was wondering how I can beat this pin
>> put on my knight. It seems like almost every game I get a knight
>> pinned. HEre is an example:
>>
>> 1.d4 d6 2.Nf3 Bg4 3.c4 e5
>
> Well, first of all, why are you so afraid of the pin?
>
> Beginners often overvalue knights because they're tricky, but it's
> usually a mistake to pin a knight like this before your opponent has
> castled. Certainly Bg4 doesn't look like it's part of any sensible plan,
> yet. If black trades, he could have some seriously weak light-squares
> later.
>
> In the position given, black is threatening exd4 or e4. Note, however,
> that the knight isn't pinned! eg 4. Nc3 e4?! and the knight just hops to
> d2 or g5 or back to f1. In fact, I'm confident that after 4.Nc3, almost
> every good player would simply play exd5.
>
> Look at the position you gave again. White is winning. He's not going
> to play Nc4. He's going to play dxe5!
>
> 4.dxe5 dxe5 5.Qxd8+ Kxd8 6.Nxe5 wins a pawn for nothing, so black has
> to play:
>
> 4.dxe5 Bxf3 5.exf3 (gxf3 also works) dxe5 and white has the bishop pair
> in a position where central pawns have already been exchanged. The
> doubled pawn is only a minor weakness because (in comparison to, say,
> the Exchange Ruy) black really doesn't have any immediate threats. White
> can trade queens of not (although I probably wouldn't.)
>
> But I'd like to look before that. A game of chess beings on move one.
>
> 1.d4 d6 2.Nf3.
>
> You can't play chess by rote. While this move isn't bad, black has done
> nothing to stop 2.e4, so why not play e4? (Black's three most popular
> responses -- by a landslide -- to 1.d4 are d5, Nf6, and f5. You hardly
> see anything else by strong players. Why? Because all these moves stop
> white from setting up a strong center with 2.e4; black neglected to do
> that here. Punish him!*)
>
> but anyway, you played 2.Nf3 Bg4. But again... e4 is available. Why
> aren't you playing it? This is absolutely the correct move now. 2.c4
> isn't neccesary yet because black isn't contesting the d4 square at all.
>
> -Ron
>
> *okay, I know 2.e4 allows a transition to a pirc/modern, which is a
> perfectly reasonable play for black.
>
Sorry to be pedantic, but isn't 1...e6 more popular than 1...f5? I can't
imagine it would be that much less popular, and it's been used by some very
strong players indeed.
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Date: 13 Jan 2005 13:19:03
From: Ron
Subject: Re: That opening Pin that makes me a look like a fool...
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In article <[email protected] >,
Mike Hunt <[email protected] > wrote:
> Sorry to be pedantic, but isn't 1...e6 more popular than 1...f5? I can't
> imagine it would be that much less popular, and it's been used by some very
> strong players indeed.
I don't have the stats in front of me. But 1. d4 e6 is a reasonable try
because it still contests e4, eg, 2.e4 d5! and you've got a french
defense, which is all about contesting e4.
Alternatively 2.c4 Nf6 and you're in nimzo/queen's indian territory.
Like the transposition to the pirc, I left this out because I'd rather
not muddle the waters to much.
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Date: 25 Feb 2005 11:25:16
From: Morphy's ghost
Subject: Re: That opening Pin that makes me a look like a fool...
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In the year of our Lord Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:19:03 -0800, Ron
<[email protected] > wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Mike Hunt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Sorry to be pedantic, but isn't 1...e6 more popular than 1...f5? I can't
>> imagine it would be that much less popular, and it's been used by some very
>> strong players indeed.
>
> I don't have the stats in front of me. But 1. d4 e6 is a reasonable try
>because it still contests e4, eg, 2.e4 d5! and you've got a french
>defense, which is all about contesting e4.
>
>Alternatively 2.c4 Nf6 and you're in nimzo/queen's indian territory.
1. d4 e6 was popularized by Botvinnik. It's a very flexible move if
you are comfortable with the possibility of a transition into the
French.
>
> Like the transposition to the pirc, I left this out because I'd rather
>not muddle the waters to much.
Truth can never be told so as to be understood, and not be
believ'd.-- William Blake
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