TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

Main

Date: 05 Oct 2006 08:57:17
From:
Subject: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

Results and PGN here: http://www.rookhouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=85

Date: 06 Oct 2006 16:28:05
From:
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

Thanks for the tips, I'll check it out when I get free minute. The
code is from PHPBB, so I didn't actually write most of it, just edited
the look and feel to accomedate what I wanted for the website.

Thanks,
Kevin

Dave (from the UK) wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > That's weird that it's saving as a PHP file.
>
> I've not connected it to my PC yet and downloaded the file from the PDA
> to the PC, so can't tell you whether the file is just saved with the
> wrong extension, or if the file is in fact some sort of HTML. But either
> way, it does not saved with the PGN extension. I need to get a file
> manager which is less brain dead than the one on the PDA, then perhaps I
> could rename the extension.
>
> > I've tested it
> > successfully in IE, Firefox, and Mozilla,
>
> It saves as PGN on my Mozilla:
>
> Mozilla 1.7 for Sun Java=99 Desktop System
> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20060120
>
> but not on the my HP iPAQ - see below for why this might be so.
>
> > but never on any type of
> > Apple product.
>
> My PDA is not Apple, but its made by HP. It's an HP 4iPAQ 150 (see
> review of one at
>
> http://www.brighthand.com/?newsID=3D1703&showComments=3Dtrue
>
> if interested).
>
>
> > I can e-mail the PGN files of all of the games if you
> > like,
>
> No, its okay. I can get it now, but was interested yesterday in
> downloading it, when I only had my PDA.
>
> I tried running your web page through the W3C online checker. It shows
> multiple (32 to be precise) errors on the validation:
>
> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.rookhouse.com%2Fforu=
m%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D85&charset=3D%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=3DI=
nline&ss=3D1
>
> the most obvious one I see is the lack of a </head>. But there are some
> others that I can see, such as
>
> <link rel=3D"top" href=3D"./index.php" title=3D"Rook House Forum Index" />
>
> The end tag /> is I believe in the XHTML standard, but not HTML 4.01.
> Yet the line at the top says its HTML 4.01 transitional. (I'm not 100%
> sure on this, but I always use just the > on HTML - and I try to
> validate stuff to Strict, rather than Transitional.)
>
> BTW, my iPAQ does not support Javascript. Does your page work in
> browsers which have javascript turned off?) Also, the tags around the
> <script> are not correct. These errors could be why my iPAQ gets confused.
>
> If you can want to change the web site (correct these errors), let me
> know a URL (even if a temporary one) and I'll test if for you again.
>
> BTW, my email address is valid, but don't bother sending the PGN file.
>
> --
> Dave (from the UK)
>
> Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
> It is always of the form: [email protected]
> Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.
>=20
> http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)

Date: 07 Oct 2006 03:17:34
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

[email protected] wrote:
> Thanks for the tips,

You are welcome.

> I'll check it out when I get free minute. The
> code is from PHPBB, so I didn't actually write most of it, just edited
> the look and feel to accomedate what I wanted for the website.

I've just checked a phpBB forum of mine:

http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/phpBB2/

and see that does not validate properly with an online validator,
although there are considerably less problems than on your page. I don't
think phpBB is a good example of cleanly written PHP generating clean HTML.

I'd be tempted to replace the line with the download with something like

<a href="game8.pgn" >Download PGN file for game 8</a>
or
<a href="http://www.yoursite.com/some-direcotry/game8.pgn" >Download PGN
file for game 8</a >

Looking at the source for that page, I can't work out in my own mind
what it is doing.

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)

Date: 05 Oct 2006 18:50:37
From:
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

That's weird that it's saving as a PHP file. I've tested it
successfully in IE, Firefox, and Mozilla, but never on any type of
Apple product. I can e-mail the PGN files of all of the games if you
like, just give me your e-mail address of preference.

Dave (from the UK wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Results and PGN here: http://www.rookhouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=85
>
> I downloading the pgn but my browser (Internet Explorer on Pocket PC
> 2003 saves it as a php, not pgn file.) I don't have access to my normal
> Sun workstation, so can't say how Mozzila will save it, but IE on my
> iPAQ saves as .php
>
> dsve

Date: 06 Oct 2006 13:08:56
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

[email protected] wrote:
> That's weird that it's saving as a PHP file.

I've not connected it to my PC yet and downloaded the file from the PDA
to the PC, so can't tell you whether the file is just saved with the
wrong extension, or if the file is in fact some sort of HTML. But either
way, it does not saved with the PGN extension. I need to get a file
manager which is less brain dead than the one on the PDA, then perhaps I
could rename the extension.

> I've tested it
> successfully in IE, Firefox, and Mozilla,

It saves as PGN on my Mozilla:

Mozilla 1.7 for Sun Java� Desktop System
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20060120

but not on the my HP iPAQ - see below for why this might be so.

> but never on any type of
> Apple product.

My PDA is not Apple, but its made by HP. It's an HP 4iPAQ 150 (see
review of one at

http://www.brighthand.com/?newsID=1703&showComments=true

if interested).

> I can e-mail the PGN files of all of the games if you
> like,

No, its okay. I can get it now, but was interested yesterday in
downloading it, when I only had my PDA.

I tried running your web page through the W3C online checker. It shows
multiple (32 to be precise) errors on the validation:

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rookhouse.com%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D85&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&ss=1

the most obvious one I see is the lack of a </head >. But there are some
others that I can see, such as

<link rel="top" href="./index.php" title="Rook House Forum Index" / >

The end tag / > is I believe in the XHTML standard, but not HTML 4.01.
Yet the line at the top says its HTML 4.01 transitional. (I'm not 100%
sure on this, but I always use just the > on HTML - and I try to
validate stuff to Strict, rather than Transitional.)

BTW, my iPAQ does not support Javascript. Does your page work in
browsers which have javascript turned off?) Also, the tags around the
<script > are not correct. These errors could be why my iPAQ gets confused.

If you can want to change the web site (correct these errors), let me
know a URL (even if a temporary one) and I'll test if for you again.

BTW, my email address is valid, but don't bother sending the PGN file.

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)

Date: 06 Oct 2006 16:58:54
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

Dave (from the UK) wrote:

> My PDA is not Apple, but its made by HP. It's an HP 4iPAQ 150 (see
> review of one at
>
> http://www.brighthand.com/?newsID=1703&showComments=true

Sorry, its an HP iPAQ 4150. It runs Internet Explorer, but its very
cut-down compared to the one you have on your PC.

> BTW, my email address is valid, but don't bother sending the PGN file.

I mean the "Reply To:" is valid - at least until I get a lot of spam on
it, then I'll disable it.

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)

Date: 05 Oct 2006 18:47:51
From:
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

I'm just posting the "official" score of the match. I agree with you
100% that it should be 4.0-3.0 in favor of Kramnik. I was pretty
impartial going into the match, but now I am pulling for Kramnik, as I
think he is getting royally screwed.

Dave (from the UK wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Results and PGN here: http://www.rookhouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=85
>
> Are you the webmaster for that site?
>
> I feel you should correct the score to 4.0-3.0 to Kramnik, which is how
> 99.9 % of the world see it. Leave it to those few that feel it's 4-4 to
> put that on their web site.
>
>
> Dave.

Date: 05 Oct 2006 09:28:35
From: Dave (from the UK
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

[email protected] wrote:
> Results and PGN here: http://www.rookhouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=85

I downloading the pgn but my browser (Internet Explorer on Pocket PC
2003 saves it as a php, not pgn file.) I don't have access to my normal
Sun workstation, so can't say how Mozzila will save it, but IE on my
iPAQ saves as .php

dsve

Date: 05 Oct 2006 09:28:26
From: Dave (from the UK
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

Date: 05 Oct 2006 09:15:40
From: Dave (from the UK
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

Date: 05 Oct 2006 09:13:58
From: Dave (from the UK
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

Date: 05 Oct 2006 14:47:49
From: Chris F.A. Johnson
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

On 2006-10-05, Dave (from the UK wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> Results and PGN here: http://www.rookhouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=85

The PGN is at
<http://www.rookhouse.com/forum/download.php?id=15&sid=dc6fbbcbd162974525a6a8820518caf6 >

> I downloading the pgn but my browser (Internet Explorer on Pocket PC
> 2003 saves it as a php, not pgn file.)

Can't you rename it?

> I don't have access to my normal
> Sun workstation, so can't say how Mozzila will save it, but IE on my
> iPAQ saves as .php

Firefox saves it as "Kramnik-Topalov Game8.pgn".

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org >
===================================================================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Date: 06 Oct 2006 01:28:16
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> On 2006-10-05, Dave (from the UK wrote:
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>Results and PGN here: http://www.rookhouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=85
>
>
> The PGN is at
> <http://www.rookhouse.com/forum/download.php?id=15&sid=dc6fbbcbd162974525a6a8820518caf6>
>
>>I downloading the pgn but my browser (Internet Explorer on Pocket PC
>>2003 saves it as a php, not pgn file.)
>
>
> Can't you rename it?

No. Have you ever tried renaming the extension of files on Pocket PC? I
assume not. I'm not sure even if the file is PGN or if its actually an
HTML page served by the PHP enable web server. Either way, I was unable
to use it.

There are probably 3rd party file managers that can rename it, but I
don't have one of them installed.

>>I don't have access to my normal
>>Sun workstation, so can't say how Mozzila will save it, but IE on my
>>iPAQ saves as .php
>
>
> Firefox saves it as "Kramnik-Topalov Game8.pgn".
>

No doubt another "feature" of Internot Exploiter on the Pocket PC.

PS Sorry for the multiple postings from me. Blame google groups for that
I think - either that on my Pocket PC is submitting it multiple times.
I'm now back on my real computer!
--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)

Date: 08 Oct 2006 14:01:11
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

Dave (from the UK) wrote:
> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>
>> On 2006-10-05, Dave (from the UK wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:

>> The PGN is at
>>
>> <http://www.rookhouse.com/forum/download.php?id=15&sid=dc6fbbcbd162974525a6a8820518caf6>
>>
>>
>>> I downloading the pgn but my browser (Internet Explorer on Pocket PC
>>> 2003 saves it as a php, not pgn file.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Can't you rename it?
>

I download that file from my PDA to my main PC. The file is in fact a
PGN - not HTML or PHP. It's just the extension is wrong. But as I said
before, I can't rename it on the PDA and I believe there are some
problems with the web page, which is probably why my browser (IE on
Pocket PC 2003) got confused.

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)

Date: 05 Oct 2006 09:06:27
From: Dave (from the UK
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

[email protected] wrote:
> Results and PGN here: http://www.rookhouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=85

Are you the webmaster for that site?

I feel you should correct the score to 4.0-3.0 to Kramnik, which is how
99.9 % of the world see it. Leave it to those few that feel it's 4-4 to
put that on their web site.

Dave.

Date: 05 Oct 2006 13:20:50
From: John A Swartz
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

Dave (from the UK wrote:

> I feel you should correct the score to 4.0-3.0 to Kramnik, which is how
> 99.9 % of the world see it. Leave it to those few that feel it's 4-4 to
> put that on their web site.
>

While the world, including Kramnik, feel that the score should be 4-3 at
this point, according to FIDE, it's 4-4, and therefore officially that
is the score. Hopefully Kramnik can get 2.5 points over the next 4
games so that the "toilet gate" win for Topalov becomes a non-factor.

John

Date: 06 Oct 2006 00:46:17
From: Ed Seedhouse
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:20:50 -0400, John A Swartz <[email protected] >
wrote:

>While the world, including Kramnik,

So you have talked personally to everyone in the world? Or perhaps done
a random sample survey of a couple of thousand respondants? Or perhaps
you are simply making an assertion based on no evidence whatsoever. I
thought so.

>feel that the score should be 4-3 at
>this point

Well, I appear to be part of the world, and I consider the score to be
4-4 unless and until overturned on appeal. So observably "the world"
doesn't consider the score to be 4-3.

Date: 06 Oct 2006 11:21:08
From: John A Swartz
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

Ed Seedhouse wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:20:50 -0400, John A Swartz <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>While the world, including Kramnik,
>
>
> So you have talked personally to everyone in the world? Or perhaps done
> a random sample survey of a couple of thousand respondants? Or perhaps
> you are simply making an assertion based on no evidence whatsoever. I
> thought so.
>
>
>>feel that the score should be 4-3 at
>>this point
>
>
> Well, I appear to be part of the world, and I consider the score to be
> 4-4 unless and until overturned on appeal. So observably "the world"
> doesn't consider the score to be 4-3.

I happen to agree with you - while I can't claim to have been misquoted,
looking back on my posting I see that I was not clear - what I meant to
say was that "While the world, including Kramnik, *MAY* feel that the
score should be 4-3 at this point..." (emphasis on the missing word
"may"). If you note the rest of my post (that you didn't include in
your follow-on), I said "..according to FIDE, it's 4-4, and therefore
officially that is the score." So, I agree that the score should not be
advertised as something other that what is "official" unless it is
overturned.

Sorry for the confusion.

John

Date: 06 Oct 2006 17:01:51
From: Ron
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

In article <[email protected] >,
John A Swartz <[email protected] > wrote:

> So, I agree that the score should not be
> advertised as something other that what is "official" unless it is
> overturned.

At this point, overturning the forfeit would only heighten the absurdity.

Imagine a soccer game where one team has a goal disallowed in the 40th
minute. Then in the 70th minute the ref comes out, says he was wrong,
and puts it on the scoreboard.

-Ron

Date: 06 Oct 2006 16:45:49
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

John A Swartz wrote:

> what I meant to
> say was that "While the world, including Kramnik, *MAY* feel that the
> score should be 4-3 at this point..." (emphasis on the missing word
> "may"). If you note the rest of my post (that you didn't include in
> your follow-on), I said "..according to FIDE, it's 4-4, and therefore
> officially that is the score."

My reasoning is that if everyone put the real (based on games played)
score on their web sites, it would add pressure on FIDE to overturn the
forfeit, which is what should happen according to most of the chess world.

Public opinion does have an influence some times. In the UK, the revolt
over the "poll tax" caused the Prime Minister (gret Thatcher) to resign.

By putting the real (rather than official) score on web sites, would add
pressure to FIDE. They would be seen as a joke of an organization if 99%
of the chess world did not accept their decision.

I don't know if there are other ways to add pressure. Vote of no
confidence, GM's asking for their details to be removed from the FIDE
web site..., whatever else could be done.

In any case, the game has been played under a set of rules that are
different to what both players signed up for. Hence I don't see how it
can be an "official" score.

> So, I agree that the score should not be
> advertised as something other that what is "official" unless it is
> overturned.

But its more likely to be overturned if the chess world are seen to not
accept the result.

Personally if I were Kramnic, I'd just walk away. I'm sure if he looses
by 1 point or less, he would have wished he had done. Of course, if he
manages to win by half a point or more, then he would not regret his
decision.

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)

Date:
From:
Subject:

Date: 05 Oct 2006 16:56:46
From: Ron
Subject: Re: TOPALOV Wins Game # 8

In article <[email protected] >,
"Dave (from the UK" <[email protected] > wrote:

> I feel you should correct the score to 4.0-3.0 to Kramnik, which is how
> 99.9 % of the world see it. Leave it to those few that feel it's 4-4 to
> put that on their web site.

The official score of the match is 4-4. The forfeit counts.

Nobody ignores Fischer's forfeit when talking about the score of his
match with Spassky. Why should this forfeit be any different?

-Ron