Sanny's Chess Program - playable at higher levels?

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Date: 16 Oct 2006 03:50:50
From:
Subject: Sanny's Chess Program - playable at higher levels?

I've seen a lot of messages concerning Sanny's evolving chess engine,
so I thought I'd give it a go.
The only thing I could play without registering was the lowest level,
so off we went.
First impressions - incredably fun! The computer taunted me in bad
english, whilst wacky sound effects announced each move.
Sadly the computer threw away a peice early into the opening (sanny - I
think you may have over emphasised the importance of pawns on the
central squares. Sure, they're good, but not worth losing a peice
over.)
So I decided to log in and try a higer level. I went for the highest
level, to see what it could do.
It can certainly think a lot! It played the first two moves very
quickly, I assume due to an opening library, then took over two hours
to play each move. I left it thinking while I had dinner, then
switched it off.
My machine is not the highest spec, but it really didn't seem like the
program was making any progress at all.

So to my question - is it playable at higher levels? Is the
second-from-bottom level any better, and how long does a move take?
I'd be willing to give it another go, but not if all I have to do is
leave book on move three and it throws a knight.

Phil.

Date: 18 Oct 2006 00:52:16
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Congratulation you Ranked: 35

> > You are behind just 34 players, Well it was your First Game and you
> > win. And your Rating will be displayed to be seen by others. Looking at
> > your Recorded game I feel you can make it to Top 10.
>
> Well, Sanny, I'd be far more likely to play more games against your
> computer if it moved in the time allotted to it.

It is now far better than what it used to be.

Beginner level 20-40 seconds
Easy level 40-80 seconds
Normal level 1-2 min

Play a Game at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Only sometimes in complex situation it thinks longer so that it do not
make a weak move.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 18 Oct 2006 16:07:21
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Congratulation you Ranked: 35

In article <[email protected] >,
"Sanny" <[email protected] > wrote:

> It is now far better than what it used to be.
>
> Beginner level 20-40 seconds
> Easy level 40-80 seconds
> Normal level 1-2 min

Sanny, I just played it. It frequently took over 10 minutes to move.

-Ron

Date: 17 Oct 2006 03:54:05
From: Sanny
Subject: Congratulation you Ranked: 35

> Continuing on:
>
> 11. ... 0-0 12.Qc2 h6 13.Qd2 Nh5? 14.Bxh6 gxh6 15.Qxh6 Nf6 16.Ng5 Bd7
> 17.Bh7+ Kh8 18.Bf5+ Kg8 19.Bxe6+ Bxe6 20.Nxe6 Rf7 21.Nxd8 Rxd8 22.Nd2
> Rh7 23.Qh4.
>
> Of course, I'm going to have to play this out to mate to get credit for
> the win, but I've won the queen and three pawns for two pieces, so it
> doesn't feel much like the outcome is in doubt.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

You are behind just 34 players, Well it was your First Game and you
win. And your Rating will be displayed to be seen by others. Looking at
your Recorded game I feel you can make it to Top 10.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 18 Oct 2006 00:50:20
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Congratulation you Ranked: 35

In article <[email protected] >,
"Sanny" <[email protected] > wrote:

> You are behind just 34 players, Well it was your First Game and you
> win. And your Rating will be displayed to be seen by others. Looking at
> your Recorded game I feel you can make it to Top 10.

Well, Sanny, I'd be far more likely to play more games against your
computer if it moved in the time allotted to it.

-Ron

Date: 17 Oct 2006 01:24:09
From: Sanny
Subject: Your Game with Advance Level was Reset.

> > Beginner Level 10-30 seconds. (Nice Game)
> > Easy Level 20-40 seconds (Good Players)
> > Normal Level 1-2 min (Tough Players)
>
> I would try one of those, but I can't even resign my current game.
> Perhaps after you've finished playing with my login, you'll reset my
> game so I can try a differnet level. Even better, put a resign button
> so you can stop playing if things go on too long
>

Your Game was reset So that you may play a game with Lower Level.

Start a Game at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Beginner Level 10-30 seconds. (Nice Game)
Easy Level 20-40 seconds (Good Players)
Normal Level 1-2 min (Tough Players)

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 16 Oct 2006 14:26:08
From:
Subject: Re: Play with Beginner Level, It plays nice.

>
> That was a mistake You started with Advance Level.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to make that clear in the online
instructions

>
> But Advance level also finishes game in time.
>

Thats not my experience. As an experiment, I left it thinking while I
went out. 6 hours later, its still thinking. My username is Mr_Phil -
go ahead and log in as me and see if it runs any better on your
machine.

> Beginner Level 10-30 seconds. (Nice Game)
> Easy Level 20-40 seconds (Good Players)
> Normal Level 1-2 min (Tough Players)

I would try one of those, but I can't even resign my current game.
Perhaps after you've finished playing with my login, you'll reset my
game so I can try a differnet level. Even better, put a resign button
so you can stop playing if things go on too long

>
> No need to go to higher Levels. Normal level will beat most of the
> Players here.
>
> Master Level & Advance Level (Only Taylor Kingston can Beat Them.)

Well, I certainly can't. I don't have several months free to play a
game.

>
> Bye
> Sanny
>

Thanks for your replies.

Phil.

Date: 17 Oct 2006 13:34:45
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Play with Beginner Level, It plays nice.

<[email protected] > wrote:
> Sanny wrote:
>> That was a mistake You started with Advance Level.
>
> Perhaps it would be a good idea to make that clear in the online
> instructions

But in the online instructions, he says that Advance Level will move
in a few minutes. That's clear enough, isn't it? You might feel that
it's taking several hours per move but, in reality, it's only taking a
few minutes. Your clocks must be very inaccurate because Sanny's
program is perfect and always moves on time.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Erotic Cyber-Spoon (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a piece of cutlery that exists only
in your computer but it's genuinely
erotic!

Date: 16 Oct 2006 09:29:35
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Sanny's Chess Program - playable at higher levels?

Ron wrote:
> 1.e4 e6 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e5 Ne4 4.d3 Nc5 5.d4 Ne4 6.Bd3 d5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.Qe2

The obvious threat is 9. Bxe4 dxe4 10.Qxe4, winning a pawn. How about
8...f5. Now either 9.Bxe4 fxe4 or the more likely 9.exf6(ep) Nxf6
preserve material equality.

Black's still in trouble, of course. He's 2-3 tempos behind in
development, and his king is "protected" by a backward pawn on a
semi-open file.

---
likesforests
Become a Chess Expert -- http://likesforests.blogspot.com/

Date: 16 Oct 2006 16:54:09
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Sanny's Chess Program - playable at higher levels?

In article <[email protected] >,
"[email protected]" <[email protected] > wrote:

> Ron wrote:
> > 1.e4 e6 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e5 Ne4 4.d3 Nc5 5.d4 Ne4 6.Bd3 d5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.Qe2
>
> The obvious threat is 9. Bxe4 dxe4 10.Qxe4, winning a pawn. How about
> 8...f5. Now either 9.Bxe4 fxe4 or the more likely 9.exf6(ep) Nxf6
> preserve material equality.
>
> Black's still in trouble, of course. He's 2-3 tempos behind in
> development, and his king is "protected" by a backward pawn on a
> semi-open file.

The game has continued 8. ... f5 9.ef Nxf6 10.Bf4 Be7 11.c3.

And yes, it's been over an hour since my reset after first playing Qe2.
The computer has made three moves in that time. (I had one medium-length
delay on my end during that time.)

At this point, I have to head out. So the adventure will continue later
today.

-Ron

Date: 17 Oct 2006 00:11:23
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Sanny's Chess Program - playable at higher levels?

In article
<[email protected] >,
Ron <[email protected] > wrote:

> > Ron wrote:
> > > 1.e4 e6 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e5 Ne4 4.d3 Nc5 5.d4 Ne4 6.Bd3 d5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.Qe2

> The game has continued 8. ... f5 9.ef Nxf6 10.Bf4 Be7 11.c3.

Continuing on:

11. ... 0-0 12.Qc2 h6 13.Qd2 Nh5? 14.Bxh6 gxh6 15.Qxh6 Nf6 16.Ng5 Bd7
17.Bh7+ Kh8 18.Bf5+ Kg8 19.Bxe6+ Bxe6 20.Nxe6 Rf7 21.Nxd8 Rxd8 22.Nd2
Rh7 23.Qh4.

Of course, I'm going to have to play this out to mate to get credit for
the win, but I've won the queen and three pawns for two pieces, so it
doesn't feel much like the outcome is in doubt.

-Ron

Date: 16 Oct 2006 15:51:32
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Sanny's Chess Program - playable at higher levels?

In article <[email protected] >,
[email protected] wrote:

> So to my question - is it playable at higher levels? Is the
> second-from-bottom level any better, and how long does a move take?
> I'd be willing to give it another go, but not if all I have to do is
> leave book on move three and it throws a knight.
>

My answer, at the moment, is no.

I'm giving my first game a go-around at a higher-than beginner level (I
skipped the second level and went straight to the third), and, as
expected, the moment I have it in a remotely difficult position it slows
to a crawl.

This is a bit of a surprise, since the bind it's in isn't that tough at
the moment, but it's been thinking on a relatively simple position for
at least ten minutes.

Date: 16 Oct 2006 16:12:24
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Sanny's Chess Program - playable at higher levels?

In article
<[email protected] >,
Ron <[email protected] > wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>
> > So to my question - is it playable at higher levels? Is the
> > second-from-bottom level any better, and how long does a move take?
> > I'd be willing to give it another go, but not if all I have to do is
> > leave book on move three and it throws a knight.
> >
>
> My answer, at the moment, is no.
>
> I'm giving my first game a go-around at a higher-than beginner level (I
> skipped the second level and went straight to the third), and, as
> expected, the moment I have it in a remotely difficult position it slows
> to a crawl.
>
> This is a bit of a surprise, since the bind it's in isn't that tough at
> the moment, but it's been thinking on a relatively simple position for
> at least ten minutes.

Okay, I got tired of waiting for it, closed and restarted the browser.

But ... 15 minutes later, it's still thinking on the same position.
After the moves:

1.e4 e6 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e5 Ne4 4.d3 Nc5 5.d4 Ne4 6.Bd3 d5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.Qe2

The program appears to just hang. It's been "Thinking on Pawn (6)" for
every 15 minutes, on the two-harder-than-the-easiest level.

The program's inability to play by its own time control is absurd.

-Ron

Date: 16 Oct 2006 06:13:02
From: Sanny
Subject: Play with Beginner Level, It plays nice.

> So I decided to log in and try a higer level. I went for the highest
> level, to see what it could do.
> It can certainly think a lot! It played the first two moves very
> quickly, I assume due to an opening library, then took over two hours
> to play each move. I left it thinking while I had dinner, then
> switched it off.

That was a mistake You started with Advance Level.

But Advance level also finishes game in time.

http://www.getclub.com/cc/showgame.php?num=10

See how chrisf played 2 games with Advance Level

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Beginner Level 10-30 seconds. (Nice Game)
Easy Level 20-40 seconds (Good Players)
Normal Level 1-2 min (Tough Players)

No need to go to higher Levels. Normal level will beat most of the
Players here.

Master Level & Advance Level (Only Taylor Kingston can Beat Them.)

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 16 Oct 2006 19:57:35
From: Bjoern
Subject: Re: Play with Beginner Level, It plays nice.

Sanny wrote:
>>So I decided to log in and try a higer level. I went for the highest
>>level, to see what it could do.
>>It can certainly think a lot! It played the first two moves very
>>quickly, I assume due to an opening library, then took over two hours
>>to play each move. I left it thinking while I had dinner, then
>>switched it off.
>
>
> That was a mistake You started with Advance Level.
>
> But Advance level also finishes game in time.
>
> http://www.getclub.com/cc/showgame.php?num=10
>
> See how chrisf played 2 games with Advance Level
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> Beginner Level 10-30 seconds. (Nice Game)
> Easy Level 20-40 seconds (Good Players)
> Normal Level 1-2 min (Tough Players)
>
> No need to go to higher Levels. Normal level will beat most of the
> Players here.
>
> Master Level & Advance Level (Only Taylor Kingston can Beat Them.)

A lot of players have beaten the Master level and any other level
whenever they bothered to try (like me for the master level just this
weekend while watching the bundesliga + the two movies after that).

The Master level takes a couple of minutes up to 20-30min per move (most
moves around 10min until the end when it goes down to just a few
minutes) on a 3.2Ghz+1GB RAM machine with nothing much running in the
background, so I guess on older machines it would take proportionally
longer.

Looking at how many players have unbeaten records or two-digit to 1
scores, it is evident that just about anyone who tries wins (if he is
willing to invest the necessary time).

--Bj�rn

Date: 16 Oct 2006 06:12:26
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Sanny's Chess Program - playable at higher levels?