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Date: 06 Aug 2007 17:01:22
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Kasparov vs Bareev - 1-0 or 1/2-1/2 ???
You can find this French Tarrasch PGN in various places - one of
Chessbase's databases, TWIC, at least one other website etc. But the
result does not match the position.

Kasparov appears to beat Bareev. But whilst I'm not a GM, I am sure I
would have no problems drawing this, so either Bareev run out of time,
the results tag is incorrect, or something else very odd has happened.
Anyone know?


[Event "World Cup of Rapid Chess Final"]
[Site "Cannes FRA"]
[Date "2001.03.25"]
[Round "1.2"]
[White "Kasparov, G"]
[Black "Bareev, E"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2849"]
[BlackElo "2709"]
[ECO "C09"]
[EventDate "2001.03.25"]

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 c5 4.Ngf3 Nc6 5.exd5 exd5 6.Bb5 Bd6 7.dxc5 Bxc5 8.
O-O Ne7 9.Nb3 Bd6 10.Re1 O-O 11.Bg5 h6 12.Bh4 Bg4 13.Bg3 a6 14.Be2 Re8 15.
Nfd4 Bxe2 16.Rxe2 Qd7 17.Bxd6 Qxd6 18.Qe1 Kf8 19.Qc3 Nxd4 20.Nxd4 Nc6 21.
Rae1 Qb4 22.Qxb4+ Nxb4 23.Kf1 Rxe2 24.Kxe2 Re8+ 25.Kd2 Rxe1 26.Kxe1 Ke7
27.Kd2 g6 28.a3 Nc6 29.Nxc6+ bxc6 30.c4 Kd6 31.Kd3 a5 32.b3 Kc5 33.cxd5
Kxd5 34.Kc3 h5 35.h4 f6 36.Kd3 g5 37.g3 gxh4 38.gxh4 f5 39.f3 Ke5 40.Ke3
c5 41.f4+ Kd6 42.Kd2 Kc6 43.Kc3 Kb5 44.Kd3 1-0


Clearly that one above is suspcious, although the result may be correct.

--
Dave (from the UK)

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It is always of the form: [email protected]
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Date: 07 Aug 2007 13:46:41
From: wtfai
Subject: Re: Kasparov vs Bareev - 1-0 or 1/2-1/2 ???
On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 17:01:22 +0100, Dave (from the UK) wrote:

> Kasparov appears to beat Bareev. But whilst I'm not a GM, I am sure I
> would have no problems drawing this, so either Bareev run out of time,
> the results tag is incorrect, or something else very odd has happened.
> Anyone know?

From what I can see Bareev lost on time. I found a couple of references to
that,
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20010327/ai_n14369471 and
http://thehindujobs.com/thehindu/2001/03/26/stories/0726020h.htm The
second one also suggests that Bareev resigned as well. I can imagine that
happening if he was very short of time, as my first reaction was that it
should be lost for Black as the White king penetrates. It took me a while
to realise that the counter attack with 44...Kc6 45.Kc4 Kd6 46.Kb5 Kd5
47.Kxa5 Ke4 works and should hold for Black.

If he did resign it certainly wouldn't be the first time a GM has resigned
a drawn pawn ending, e.g. Shirov - Timman Hoogeveens 1996,
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1123790


  
Date: 11 Aug 2007 10:55:48
From: Gilles Garrigues
Subject: Re: Kasparov vs Bareev - 1-0 or 1/2-1/2 ???
He should have gone for that (simple) move sequence without calculating
since it was his only chance.
Those guys resign too early. Look at Kasparov's "last" game against Topalov
in Linares. Some people say that the K + Ps vs K + Ps endgame was drawn at
one point. Yet Kaspa played the endgame without any fighting spirit and
resigned in a few moves later. In my own (amateur) carreer I was able to
save a few points by (almost) playing until mate.

"wtfai" <[email protected] > a �crit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 17:01:22 +0100, Dave (from the UK) wrote:
>
>> Kasparov appears to beat Bareev. But whilst I'm not a GM, I am sure I
>> would have no problems drawing this, so either Bareev run out of time,
>> the results tag is incorrect, or something else very odd has happened.
>> Anyone know?
>
> From what I can see Bareev lost on time. I found a couple of references to
> that,
> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20010327/ai_n14369471 and
> http://thehindujobs.com/thehindu/2001/03/26/stories/0726020h.htm The
> second one also suggests that Bareev resigned as well. I can imagine that
> happening if he was very short of time, as my first reaction was that it
> should be lost for Black as the White king penetrates. It took me a while
> to realise that the counter attack with 44...Kc6 45.Kc4 Kd6 46.Kb5 Kd5
> 47.Kxa5 Ke4 works and should hold for Black.
>
> If he did resign it certainly wouldn't be the first time a GM has resigned
> a drawn pawn ending, e.g. Shirov - Timman Hoogeveens 1996,
> http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1123790




   
Date: 11 Aug 2007 11:46:55
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Kasparov vs Bareev - 1-0 or 1/2-1/2 ???
Gilles Garrigues <[email protected] > wrote:
> Those guys resign too early. [...] In my own (amateur) carreer I
> was able to save a few points by (almost) playing until mate.

In your amateur career, it was much more likely that your opponent
would make a mistake so it was more likely to be worth playing on. Of
course, you don't know how many points you lost because you were tired
from dragging out lost positions in the hope that your opponent would
blunder.

My policy has always been to resign as soon as I'm convinced that both
I and my opponent know how he can win the posiion. I believe GMs do
the same but, since they know much more about chess than I do, they'll
be convinced of the loss much sooner.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Mentholated Surprise Tree (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a tree but not like you'd expect
and it's invigorating!


    
Date: 12 Aug 2007 12:34:52
From: Gilles Garrigues
Subject: Re: Kasparov vs Bareev - 1-0 or 1/2-1/2 ???
I do not agree with you Dave ...
Again look at Kasparov's "last game" in Linares or even better that famous
Kasparov-Deep Blue game where Kasparov resigned in a drawn position ...

My point is: even GM's sometimes resign in positions which are either drawn
or very hard to win over the board for the opponent. It probably has to do
with mental exhaustion more than anything else.

> ... My policy has always been to resign as soon as I'm convinced that both
> I and my opponent know how he can win the posiion. I believe GMs do
> the same but, since they know much more about chess than I do, they'll
> be convinced of the loss much sooner...




     
Date: 12 Aug 2007 19:01:31
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Kasparov vs Bareev - 1-0 or 1/2-1/2 ???
Gilles Garrigues <[email protected] > wrote:
> David Richerby wrote:
>> ... My policy has always been to resign as soon as I'm convinced
>> that both I and my opponent know how he can win the posiion. I
>> believe GMs do the same but, since they know much more about chess
>> than I do, they'll be convinced of the loss much sooner...
>
> I do not agree with you Dave ... Again look at Kasparov's "last
> game" in Linares or even better that famous Kasparov-Deep Blue game
> where Kasparov resigned in a drawn position ...
>
> My point is: even GM's sometimes resign in positions which are
> either drawn or very hard to win over the board for the opponent. It
> probably has to do with mental exhaustion more than anything else.

*Sometimes*, yes. *Sometimes*, Grandmasters blunder pieces or fall
into a snap checkmate. But you should look at the vast majority of
games, where they don't make these stupid mistakes and where they
agree draws in drawn positions and resign in lost positions. (I'm
leaving so-called `Grandmaster draws' out of this -- they're a
separate issue.)


Dave.

--
David Richerby Enormous Broken Projector (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a 16mm film projector but it
doesn't work and it's huge!