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Main
Date: 08 Oct 2006 00:14:52
From: Sanny
Subject: How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
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I play Chess at http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html but always loose. My
pieces are killed even by its beginner level.
But some players like Nomorechess are able to beat even it's Easy and
Normal Level.
Can a good player find any mistake in the game that can be used to
improve the GetClub Game?
Earlier every day players used to show me mistakes in my game. Now no
one is able to find mistakes.
Now only 3 players are able to beat the game easily and they are
1. Nomorechess
2. Taylor Kingston (Bobby Pfusher)
3. and Bob
Other players are loosing the games even with Easy and Normal Levels.
(So they cannot find any weakness in the game)
So I request
Nomorechess
Taylor Kingston (Bobby Pfusher)
and Bob
To tell me anything they find wrong in
http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html, So that the game be improved further
to beat you three players also.
I am happy to see my program winning Majority of the games but now sad
as I am unable to improve it further since its weaknesses are unknown.
If you find anything wrong that make it play weaker do inform me.
Thanks
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 15:10:41
From: help bot
Subject: Re: How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
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Sanny wrote:
> Can a good player find any mistake in the game that can be used to
> improve the GetClub Game?
I wouldn't know : >D But I found a problem which was
supposedly already fixed: in my last game (a Caro-Kan)
the computer once again moved into check at the very
end, one move before mate. It then immediately halted
play, admitting defeat before I could play the coup de gra,
BxK (rats!).
I really want to be able to play the higher levels, since
I am racking up wins fairly easily against the lower ones,
but the problem remains of the "lock-up" in midgame,
once the position becomes very complex. (Maybe I need
to buy a Cray super-computer so the Java applet can
reach the required depth before the program even realizes
it is a complex position....)
-- help bot
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 13:20:57
From: help bot
Subject: Re: How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
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Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> On 2006-10-08, help bot wrote:
> >
> > Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot" wrote:
> >> Try this:
> >>
> >> 1. Find the directory containing the program's code.
> >>
> >> 2. Highlight the directory folder in Windows Explorer.
> >>
> >> 3. Hit DELETE.
> >
> >
> > Not sufficient. This operation merely moves the
> > folder and its contents to the "recycle bin". What
> > is required here is more like a plastic explosive,
> > let's say C-4,
>
> E-5
>
> > set off inside the server's protective
> > case. Afterward, the entire remains should be
> > incinerated at a minimun temperature of 5000
> > degrees Kelvin.
Oh my god: I have somehow been tricked into
playing (gasp!) one of those funky hypermodern
openings, a flanker! How did this happen?
2.um, maybe Nc3?
-- help bot
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 12:37:40
From: help bot
Subject: Re: How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
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[email protected] wrote:
> Jester also downloads and executes on your computer. I suspect it
> simply had its genesis in the minds of more experienced programmers.
I keep trying to tell Sanny that he needs someone
who is knowledgeable in chess-specific programming
techniques.
> > I've done far worse than kill Sanny's programmers; I've HURT them.
> > And I wish to GO ON hurting them. Use the override!
> > With my last breath, I spit at thee....
>
> That wrathful attitude only leads to self-destruction.
Okay, can someone explain to me how, if Khan was
a genetically-engineered genius, his biological son in
the movie was so darned stupid that he couldn't figure
out things like using the override? I mean, in the
futuristic world of Star Trek, this ought to be the
equivalent of the lights going out and knowing to turn
on the emergency lights (as if the ship's computer
would not have been programmed to do this
AUTOMATICALLY!). Okay, okay, maybe his son
had little or no experience with star ships due to
having lived his whole life (?) stranded on a remote
planet. But then, why was *he* piloting the ship?
Grrrrrrrrrr.
-- star bot
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Date: 09 Oct 2006 14:29:50
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
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help bot wrote:
> I keep trying to tell Sanny that he needs someone
> who is knowledgeable in chess-specific programming
> techniques.
I think initially at least you could remove the "chess specific" from
there. The haphazard approach taken is probably a major part of the
problem.
I suspect they would have problems writing anything more complex than
"hello world"
--
Dave (from the UK)
Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.
http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 12:26:33
From: help bot
Subject: Re: How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
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Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot" wrote:
> Try this:
>
> 1. Find the directory containing the program's code.
>
> 2. Highlight the directory folder in Windows Explorer.
>
> 3. Hit DELETE.
Not sufficient. This operation merely moves the
folder and its contents to the "recycle bin". What
is required here is more like a plastic explosive,
let's say C-4, set off inside the server's protective
case. Afterward, the entire remains should be
incinerated at a minimun temperature of 5000
degrees Kelvin.
-- tech bot
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 15:49:22
From: Chris F.A. Johnson
Subject: Re: How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
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On 2006-10-08, help bot wrote:
>
> Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot" wrote:
>> Try this:
>>
>> 1. Find the directory containing the program's code.
>>
>> 2. Highlight the directory folder in Windows Explorer.
>>
>> 3. Hit DELETE.
>
>
> Not sufficient. This operation merely moves the
> folder and its contents to the "recycle bin". What
> is required here is more like a plastic explosive,
> let's say C-4,
E-5
> set off inside the server's protective
> case. Afterward, the entire remains should be
> incinerated at a minimun temperature of 5000
> degrees Kelvin.
>
> -- tech bot
>
--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org >
===================================================================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 03:26:21
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
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help bot wrote:
> > Have you tried Jester? It's also written in Java, but at 3sec/move is
> > much stronger than Sanny's highest level. Some guesstimate its rating
> > to be around 2100 ELO at 1min/move.
>
>
> When I start a game at GetClub, there is a delay while
> the Java applet is downloaded, and what is far worse,
> there is a delay every time I switch browsers or switch
> back to see if there has been any progress. I don't
> recall any of this happening when I played Jester. Does
> it download and execute on your own computer, or does
> Jester perhaps load and execute on a (fast) server
> somewhere?
Jester also downloads and executes on your computer. I suspect it
simply had its genesis in the minds of more experienced programmers.
> I've done far worse than kill Sanny's programmers; I've HURT them.
> And I wish to GO ON hurting them. Use the override!
> With my last breath, I spit at thee....
That wrathful attitude only leads to self-destruction.
---
likesforests
Become a Chess Expert - http://likesforests.blogspot.com/
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 06:18:58
From: Ray Gordon, creator of the \pivot\
Subject: Re: How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
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Try this:
1. Find the directory containing the program's code.
2. Highlight the directory folder in Windows Explorer.
3. Hit DELETE.
--
Money is not "game."
Looks are not "game."
Social status or value is not "game."
Those are the things that game makes unnecessary.
A seduction guru who teaches you that looks, money or status is game is not
teaching you "game," but how to be an AFC. He uses his students' money to
get women and laughs that "loser AFCs pay my rent."
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 02:18:21
From: help bot
Subject: Re: How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
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[email protected] wrote:
> help bot wrote:
> > search depth. My answer here is to eliminate the Java
> > applet approach, and make certain your programmers
> > implement the search extentions for captures and
> > checks, not allowing the engine to "rest" until a "quiet"
> > position is reached. It's a bit complicated, and as
> > such you need the advice of an expert chess
> > programmer like, say, Bob Hyatt.
>
> Have you tried Jester? It's also written in Java, but at 3sec/move is
> much stronger than Sanny's highest level. Some guesstimate its rating
> to be around 2100 ELO at 1min/move.
When I start a game at GetClub, there is a delay while
the Java applet is downloaded, and what is far worse,
there is a delay every time I switch browsers or switch
back to see if there has been any progress. I don't
recall any of this happening when I played Jester. Does
it download and execute on your own computer, or does
Jester perhaps load and execute on a (fast) server
somewhere?
Yes, I played Jester, and the problem here is that it is
like so many other chess programs: FAST! If I want to
lose, I can do that at home or I can call up IM Innes or
Taylor Kingston and play blindfold chess by phone. The
whole point of playing at GetClub is to win, and keep on
winning, despite the programmers struggling to pick
apart my wins and thwart me! It is just like the good
old days, when I used to play at the local club and each
of my opponents would show up well-prepared, while I
didn't know (or care) who I was playing that week. Yet
despite all their hard work and intense preparation, my
superior intel... oops -- I'm doing it again. I've done far
worse than kill Sanny's programmers; I've HURT them.
And I wish to GO ON hurting them. Use the override!
With my last breath, I spit at thee....
heeelp bottttttt..
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 01:59:31
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
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help bot wrote:
> search depth. My answer here is to eliminate the Java
> applet approach, and make certain your programmers
> implement the search extentions for captures and
> checks, not allowing the engine to "rest" until a "quiet"
> position is reached. It's a bit complicated, and as
> such you need the advice of an expert chess
> programmer like, say, Bob Hyatt.
Have you tried Jester? It's also written in Java, but at 3sec/move is
much stronger than Sanny's highest level. Some guesstimate its rating
to be around 2100 ELO at 1min/move.
---
likesforests
Become a Chess Expert - http://likesforests.blogspot.com/
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 01:24:03
From: help bot
Subject: Re: How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
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Sanny wrote:
> I play Chess at http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html but always loose. My
> pieces are killed even by its beginner level.
>
> But some players like Nomorechess are able to beat even it's Easy and
> Normal Level.
>
> Can a good player find any mistake in the game that can be used to
> improve the GetClub Game?
>
> Earlier every day players used to show me mistakes in my game. Now no
> one is able to find mistakes.
>
> Now only 3 players are able to beat the game easily and they are
>
> 1. Nomorechess
> 2. Taylor Kingston (Bobby Pfusher)
> 3. and Bob
>
> Other players are loosing the games even with Easy and Normal Levels.
> (So they cannot find any weakness in the game)
>
> So I request
>
> Nomorechess
> Taylor Kingston (Bobby Pfusher)
> and Bob
>
> To tell me anything they find wrong in
> http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html, So that the game be improved further
> to beat you three players also.
Sanny, right now I am having trouble finishing the game
in progress, as my connection somehow causes the
program to jump forward, then back, over and over, never
making any real headway in its analysis. This is the real
reason I have not racked up any wins/draws/losses recently;
I am stuck in one position. I will try to get past this later on
today by going inside of McDonald's, where my connection
is a bit better, and running only the GetClub.com browser.
----------
One problem I have noted with your program is the way
in which you put the openings book together, piecemeal.
A far better approach would be to input a complete set of
opening moves, although I'm not sure how to implement
this idea without violating any laws regarding copyrights.
Another thing is the simple fact that using a Java applet
seems to have dire consequences for the search depth
and speed, and this in turn has the result of limiting the
program's playing strength severely. Do you have to use
a Java applet?
I have noticed much improvement in terms of strength;
in fact the games almost seem like playing a human
opponent now. Take the game I am playing currently;
the current position might just as easily have arisen
between myself and any ordinary chess player, for there
is nothing "computeresque" about it at all. Truth be told,
were it not for the fact of my superior intellect... (wait --
isn't that a line from an old Star Trek movie? Am I not
speaking the part of Richardo Montalban -- the VILLAIN?
Oops.) Well, let's just say that I am soooo good (at
chess, I mean) that your program still needs a few
more plys in depth of search before it can ever hope to
hold its own with the Khan! While I have been taken
by surprise a few times lately in the realm of tactics,
the fact remains that when it comes to strategy, there
is simply no comparison, and often as not I come out
on top tactically, too, because of the program's lack of
search depth. My answer here is to eliminate the Java
applet approach, and make certain your programmers
implement the search extentions for captures and
checks, not allowing the engine to "rest" until a "quiet"
position is reached. It's a bit complicated, and as
such you need the advice of an expert chess
programmer like, say, Bob Hyatt.
One approach to improvement might be to take a few
key games and determine exactly how and why the
program won or lost them. In my opinion, the current
limited search depth will likely reveal that the program
was simply outgunned tactically (which is not supposed
to happen often to computers playing mere humans).
-- help bot
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 04:19:04
From: Chris F.A. Johnson
Subject: Re: How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
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On 2006-10-08, Sanny wrote:
...
> To tell me anything they find wrong in
> http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html, So that the game be improved further
> to beat you three players also.
>
> I am happy to see my program winning Majority of the games but now sad
> as I am unable to improve it further since its weaknesses are unknown.
> If you find anything wrong that make it play weaker do inform me.
Make it play at the times claimed (or even 2 or 3 times that)
rather than 10, 20 or more times as long, and you'll get more
people playing it and being qualified to comment on it.
--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org >
===================================================================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 00:51:33
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
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Sanny wrote:
> How to improve GetClub Chess Game?
Fix your program so it plays moves within the advertised time. I tried
one 10sec/move game and quickly reached a position my computer
evaluated as one pawn up. I left the game because your program stopped
to think for over 15 minutes.
> Now only 3 players are able to beat the game easily and they are
At least half the people posting here regularly could defeat your
engine. True, your engine is no longer a push-over and should win if
the player blunders a piece. One reason more people don't play your
engine is its extreme slowness.
> Other players are loosing the games even with Easy and Normal Levels.
> I am happy to see my program winning Majority of the games but now sad
The majority of games? Did you read your own stats page?!
Your 30sec/move "easy" level has a +2 -5 =0 record this month.
Your 60sec/mov "normal" level has a +0 -4 =0 record this month.
http://www.getclub.com/cc/showgame.php?num=10&user=normal
---
likesforests
Become a Chess Expert - http://likesforests.blogspot.com/
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