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Main
Date: 27 Jul 2008 04:49:19
From: Sanny
Subject: GetClub improved by 30% today.
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GetClub will play 30% stronger moves. So it will be a lot of challenge
to win the Beginner Level.
Now Beginner Level will not be as easy as it used to earlier. A lot of
tough competition at GetClub.
Heres a game against Jester with GetClub Beginner Level. Game was
equal till 40 moves but later GetClub lost a Rook for Knight and pawn.
Game Played between sanjay11 and beginner at GetClub.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM23521&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White -- Black
(sanjay11) -- (beginner)
1. e2-e4{2} d7-d6{0}
2. d2-d4{6} Ng8-f6{0}
3. Nb1-c3{8} g7-g6{0}
4. f2-f3{6} Nb8-c6{8}
5. Bf1-b5{10} Bc8-d7{20}
6. Bc1-g5{10} Bf8-g7{12}
7. Ng1-e2{14} Ke8-g8{14}
8. Ke1-g1{16} e7-e5{24}
9. d4-d5{18} Nc6-e7{18}
10. Bb5-d7{12} Qd8-d7{8}
11. Qd1-d2{12} c7-c5{36}
12. Bg5-h6{16} Bg7-h6{10}
13. Qd2-h6{10} Kg8-h8{6}
14. Qh6-h4{14} Nf6-h5{18}
15. g2-g4{16} Nh5-g7{10}
16. Ne2-g3{14} f7-f5{24}
17. g4-f5{12} g6-f5{10}
18. Ra1-e1{12} f5-f4{8}
19. Ng3-e2{14} Ne7-g6{34}
20. Qh4-h6{10} Rf8-f7{16}
21. Kg1-h1{12} Kh8-g8{38}
22. Ne2-g1{10} Ra8-f8{24}
23. Ng1-h3{12} Ng7-e8{32}
24. Nh3-g5{10} Rf7-f6{12}
25. Ng5-e6{16} Rf8-f7{6}
26. Rf1-g1{14} Ne8-c7{22}
27. Ne6-c7{10} Qd7-c7{6}
28. Rg1-g5{20} Qc7-c8{0}
29. Nc3-b5{12} c5-c4{12}
30. Re1-f1{24} Qc8-c5{14}
31. Nb5-c3{12} Qc5-e3{8}
32. Qh6-h3{14} Rf7-c7{6}
33. Nc3-b5{24} Rc7-c5{10}
34. Qh3-d7{16} Qe3-e2{22}
35. Rg5-g1{12} Qe2-c2{50}
36. Qd7-d8{12} Rf6-f8{6}
37. Qd8-d7{10} Rf8-f7{32}
38. Qd7-e6{12} Rc5-b5{10}
39. Qe6-e8{16} Kg8-g7{18}
40. Qe8-b5{16} Kg7-f8{8}
41. Qb5-a5{24} Rf7-d7{14}
42. Qa5-a7{58} Kf8-g7{0}
43. Rf1-f2{14} Qc2-d3{14}
44. Qa7-b8{12} Kg7-h6{8}
45. Qb8-c8{12} Qd3-e3{20}
46. Rf2-g2{18} Rd7-e7{24}
47. Qc8-f5{14} Kh6-g7{6}
48. Rg2-g6{10} h7-g6{0}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM23521&game=Chess
Are you seeing that GetClub playing much stronger in this game?
So play a game with Beginner Level and it will give you a good
Challenge.
Help Bot play a few more games and tell me how you find it now?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 28 Jul 2008 20:08:09
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub improved by 30% today.
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On Jul 28, 10:39=A0pm, Patrick Volk <[email protected] > wrote:
> >The improvement is judged by playing GetClub against other commercial
> >programs.
>
> >By looking at number of moves needed to win a game by stronger
> >opponent I can judge the improvement.
>
> Umm, not how it works.
Take the following two scenarios:
1. In a freak occurrence, a strong player
hangs a piece in the first ten moves, then
reverts to playing at his "normal" level.
2. In a routine occurrence, a weak player
hangs a piece, then plays a bit stronger
for the rest of the game.
In scenario (1), the game might last for
a very long time. In scenario (2), probably
not. Given a reasonable sample size, the
strong player will generally win quicker,
the weak player, much more slowly. (This
assumes little or no difference in style.)
I can still recall the time when I was often,
though not always, miniaturizing Sanny's
program, some time back. It was
particularly pleasing to score a mini versus
one of the higher levels back then, but now
this is a rarity. In fact, most of my games
go thirty moves or more. I see this not as
a mere coincidence, but as confirmation of
the program's very real improvement (not
to be confused with Sanny's ridiculous
claims).
Now, testing against Rybka is far from
ideal in that there is too great a gap in
playing strength. In this scenario, lasting
longer might only indicate that GC is now
playing a bit less aggressively in the early
part of the game, less hari kiri style chess
than before.
But look at the tail end of games: the
program used to just allow itself to be
checkmated, but now it sees checkmate
coming and "resigns", often well in
advance. That's a real improvement,
even if it still loses the game. Indeed, I
am reminded of a game against a certain
grandmaster, in which I resigned
because the endgame was hopeless; it
could not possibly be held. Weaker
players complained that I ought to have
played on a few more moves, to get to
where this hopelessness was evident to
them (and I can only note the titanic gap
in chess understanding between us).
Sanny's multitude of claims are best
taken with a half-kilo of sodium chloride
(or better still, potassium chloride). But
there has been considerable real
improvement over a considerable length
of time.
-- help bot
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Date: 28 Jul 2008 05:42:34
From: Sanny
Subject: Interesting game with Rybka
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An interesting game with Rybka. Rybka took GetClubs Rook or may be it
was a sacrifice?
As game went equal afterwards. But Bishop got pinned by Rook and then
Rybka took the Bishop
Game Played between Rybka and easy at GetClub.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka: (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM23611&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White -- Black
(Rybka) -- (easy)
1. e2-e4{50} c7-c5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{14} Nb8-c6{0}
3. d2-d4{12} c5-d4{0}
4. Nf3-d4{12} e7-e6{0}
5. Nb1-c3{16} Bf8-d6{264}
6. Nd4-b5{18} Bd6-e5{244}
7. Nb5-d6{16} Be5-d6{20}
8. Qd1-d6{12} Qd8-e7{60}
9. Bc1-f4{16} e6-e5{36}
10. Qd6-e7{16} Ng8-e7{52}
11. Bf4-e3{24} Nc6-d4{20}
12. Be3-d4{22} e5-d4{30}
13. Nc3-b5{38} Ke8-g8{32}
14. Ke1-c1{16} d7-d5{94}
15. Nb5-c7{20} d5-e4{30}
16. Nc7-a8{20} d4-d3{104}
17. Na8-c7{16} Bc8-f5{40}
18. Nc7-b5{16} Rf8-c8{92}
19. Rd1-d2{22} Rc8-c5{90}
20. Nb5-c3{16} Ne7-d5{28}
21. c2-d3{14} Nd5-c3{32}
22. b2-c3{12} e4-d3{20}
23. Bf1-d3{16} Rc5-c3{24}
24. Kc1-b2{14} Rc3-d3{60}
25. Rd2-d3{16} Bf5-d3{58}
26. Rh1-d1{18} a7-a6{98}
27. Rd1-d3{44} h7-h5{104}
28. Rd3-d8{18} Kg8-h7{0}
29. Rd8-d7{20} b7-b6{24}
30. Rd7-f7{14} Kh7-h6{28}
31. Rf7-a7{16} b6-b5{90}
32. Ra7-a6{14} Kh6-h7{108}
33. Ra6-a5{26} Kh7-g8{82}
34. Ra5-b5{26} g7-g6{44}
35. a2-a4{26} Kg8-g7{24}
36. Rb5-h5{20} Kg7-f6{28}
37. a4-a5{24} g6-g5{30}
38. a5-a6{20} Kf6-e6{50}
39. a6-a7{18} g5-g4{50}
40. Qa7-a8{Q}{22} g4-g3{54}
41. Qa8-c6{30} Ke6-f7{0}
42. Rh5-h7{44} Kf7-g8{0}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka: (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM23611&game=Chess
Lots of Ups and down in this game.
Please let me know of wrong moves made by GetClub.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Interesting game with Rybka
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Date: 28 Jul 2008 01:27:49
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub improved by 30% today.
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On Jul 28, 1:12=A0pm, Tobias Heidelmann <[email protected]
dortmund.de > wrote:
> Sanny schrieb:
>
> > GetClub will play 30% stronger moves. So it will be a lot of challenge
> > to win the Beginner Level.
>
> How so you measure improvement? Why 30%?
Earlier the game speed used to double every week. But this week only
30% improvement was achieved.
The improvement is judged by playing GetClub against other commercial
programs.
By looking at number of moves needed to win a game by stronger
opponent I can judge the improvement.
Here is a case.
Initially Beginner used to loose in 20 moves. After 2 times
improvement Beginner was able to defend itself to 25 moves.
Easy Level which thinks 4 times used to loose in 30 moves.
So when Beginner started loosing in 30 moves It means now beginner is
4 times stronger than before.
A week back Beginner plays till 45 moves. An increase of +15 moves
means Twice improvement.
Now Today Beginner Plays till 50 moves against Jester. +5 moves extra.
Since number of moves increased 5 extra moves comes out to 30%
improvement. As +15 moves means 2 times improvement (1/3 =3D 30%)
Last 2 months the game was improved 5-10 times. But now the rate of
improvement has reduced.
This month only 30% improvement was possible. As all the ideas of
improvements have exhausted.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 28 Jul 2008 22:39:58
From: Patrick Volk
Subject: Re: GetClub improved by 30% today.
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On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 01:27:49 -0700 (PDT), Sanny
<[email protected] > wrote:
>On Jul 28, 1:12�pm, Tobias Heidelmann <[email protected]
>dortmund.de> wrote:
>> Sanny schrieb:
>>
>> > GetClub will play 30% stronger moves. So it will be a lot of challenge
>> > to win the Beginner Level.
>>
>> How so you measure improvement? Why 30%?
>
>Earlier the game speed used to double every week. But this week only
>30% improvement was achieved.
>
>The improvement is judged by playing GetClub against other commercial
>programs.
>
>By looking at number of moves needed to win a game by stronger
>opponent I can judge the improvement.
>
Umm, not how it works.
>
>Here is a case.
>
>Initially Beginner used to loose in 20 moves. After 2 times
>improvement Beginner was able to defend itself to 25 moves.
A lot of chess programs are configurable, you know.
>
>Easy Level which thinks 4 times used to loose in 30 moves.
>
>So when Beginner started loosing in 30 moves It means now beginner is
>4 times stronger than before.
You know they generally have Elo ratings for certain levels. The
consensus is that they're inaccurate, but are consistent within a
program (e.g. You'd see something approximating the win rate for an
Elo difference of 100 points).
>
>A week back Beginner plays till 45 moves. An increase of +15 moves
>means Twice improvement.
So, by logic, at the beginning GC would crap the bed after 2 moves?
>
>Now Today Beginner Plays till 50 moves against Jester. +5 moves extra.
>Since number of moves increased 5 extra moves comes out to 30%
>improvement. As +15 moves means 2 times improvement (1/3 = 30%)
50/45 = 1.111... = 11% improvement by your metric.
Must be that new math.
>
>Last 2 months the game was improved 5-10 times. But now the rate of
>improvement has reduced.
>
>This month only 30% improvement was possible. As all the ideas of
>improvements have exhausted.
Considering your numbers, that doesn't surprise me. So if GC plays a
150 move knight chase, we'll see a commercial version?
I know I'm not an expert with chess, but I think I'm familiar... I
honestly did not know that Elo rating were determined by how many
moves... I suppose that's why they give 4 hour clocks (and a bonus
after 40 moves).
>
>Bye
>Sanny
>
>Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
>
>
>
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Date: 28 Jul 2008 10:12:14
From: Tobias Heidelmann
Subject: Re: GetClub improved by 30% today.
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Sanny schrieb:
> GetClub will play 30% stronger moves. So it will be a lot of challenge
> to win the Beginner Level.
How so you measure improvement? Why 30%?
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Date: 27 Jul 2008 22:14:39
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub improved by 30% today.
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> 1. b3 Nf6 2. Bb2 g6 3. e4 Bg7 4. Bc4 O-O 5. e5 Nh5 6. Qf3 d6 7. Qe4 Nc6 8.
> d4 Nb4 9. exd6 exd6 10. Ne2 d5 11. Bxd5 Nf6 12. Bxb7 Nxe4 13. Bxe4 Re8 14.
> f3 Ba6 15. Nbc3 Nxc2+ 16. Bxc2 Qxd4 17. Be4 Qe3 18. Nb5 Bxb5 19. Bd3 Bxd3
> 20. Kf1 Qxe2+
> {White resigns} 0-1
>
> In this game,GetClubdidn't see deeper than 6 plies (on a 3GHz P4
> computer). It used to claim that it saw deeper in earlier versions, so
> I don't really understand where your "30% stronger moves" comes from.
You are using computer help So that program is 10 times stronger than
GetClub. So you will not be able to see the 30% improvement.
Only those players who play using their mind will be able to see the
difference. It really does not matter much if a program is 10 times
stronger or 8 times stronger. So 30% improvement is not seen when
using computers help.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 27 Jul 2008 12:35:03
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: GetClub improved by 30% today.
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On Jul 27, 8:14 am, SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jul 27, 6:49 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > So play a game with Beginner Level and it will give you a good
> > Challenge.
>
> An infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number of keyboards have
> a better chance of duplicating the output of Alekhine's Parrot....
> wait, that only takes one monkey, never mind.
That reminds me of a noted historian's comment on the Alekhine's
Parrot author's criticisms of Lawson's Morphy book: "A monkey sh*tting
on a marble table."
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Date: 27 Jul 2008 12:33:00
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: GetClub improved by 30% today.
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On Jul 27, 6:49 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> GetClub will play 30% stronger moves. So it will be a lot of challenge
> to win the Beginner Level.
>
> Now Beginner Level will not be as easy as it used to earlier. A lot of
> tough competition at GetClub.
>
> Heres a game against Jester with GetClub Beginner Level. Game was
> equal till 40 moves but later GetClub lost a Rook for Knight and pawn.
>
> Game Played between sanjay11 and beginner at GetClub.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> sanjay11: (White)
> beginner: (Black)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM23521&game=Chess
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> White -- Black
> (sanjay11) -- (beginner)
>
> 1. e2-e4{2} d7-d6{0}
> 2. d2-d4{6} Ng8-f6{0}
> 3. Nb1-c3{8} g7-g6{0}
> 4. f2-f3{6} Nb8-c6{8}
> 5. Bf1-b5{10} Bc8-d7{20}
> 6. Bc1-g5{10} Bf8-g7{12}
> 7. Ng1-e2{14} Ke8-g8{14}
> 8. Ke1-g1{16} e7-e5{24}
> 9. d4-d5{18} Nc6-e7{18}
> 10. Bb5-d7{12} Qd8-d7{8}
> 11. Qd1-d2{12} c7-c5{36}
> 12. Bg5-h6{16} Bg7-h6{10}
> 13. Qd2-h6{10} Kg8-h8{6}
> 14. Qh6-h4{14} Nf6-h5{18}
> 15. g2-g4{16} Nh5-g7{10}
> 16. Ne2-g3{14} f7-f5{24}
> 17. g4-f5{12} g6-f5{10}
> 18. Ra1-e1{12} f5-f4{8}
> 19. Ng3-e2{14} Ne7-g6{34}
> 20. Qh4-h6{10} Rf8-f7{16}
> 21. Kg1-h1{12} Kh8-g8{38}
> 22. Ne2-g1{10} Ra8-f8{24}
> 23. Ng1-h3{12} Ng7-e8{32}
> 24. Nh3-g5{10} Rf7-f6{12}
> 25. Ng5-e6{16} Rf8-f7{6}
> 26. Rf1-g1{14} Ne8-c7{22}
> 27. Ne6-c7{10} Qd7-c7{6}
> 28. Rg1-g5{20} Qc7-c8{0}
> 29. Nc3-b5{12} c5-c4{12}
> 30. Re1-f1{24} Qc8-c5{14}
> 31. Nb5-c3{12} Qc5-e3{8}
> 32. Qh6-h3{14} Rf7-c7{6}
> 33. Nc3-b5{24} Rc7-c5{10}
> 34. Qh3-d7{16} Qe3-e2{22}
> 35. Rg5-g1{12} Qe2-c2{50}
> 36. Qd7-d8{12} Rf6-f8{6}
> 37. Qd8-d7{10} Rf8-f7{32}
> 38. Qd7-e6{12} Rc5-b5{10}
> 39. Qe6-e8{16} Kg8-g7{18}
> 40. Qe8-b5{16} Kg7-f8{8}
> 41. Qb5-a5{24} Rf7-d7{14}
> 42. Qa5-a7{58} Kf8-g7{0}
> 43. Rf1-f2{14} Qc2-d3{14}
> 44. Qa7-b8{12} Kg7-h6{8}
> 45. Qb8-c8{12} Qd3-e3{20}
> 46. Rf2-g2{18} Rd7-e7{24}
> 47. Qc8-f5{14} Kh6-g7{6}
> 48. Rg2-g6{10} h7-g6{0}
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> sanjay11: (White)
> beginner: (Black)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM23521&game=Chess
>
> Are you seeing that GetClub playing much stronger in this game?
>
> So play a game with Beginner Level and it will give you a good
> Challenge.
>
> Help Bot play a few more games and tell me how you find it now?
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
What's 30 per cent of the null set?
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Date: 27 Jul 2008 17:57:43
From: Peter Osterlund
Subject: Re: GetClub improved by 30% today.
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Sanny <[email protected] > writes:
> GetClub will play 30% stronger moves. So it will be a lot of challenge
> to win the Beginner Level.
...
> So play a game with Beginner Level and it will give you a good
> Challenge.
Here is one game:
[Date "2008.07.27"]
[White "GetClub beginner level"]
[Black "Glaurung 2.1"]
[Result "0-1"]
1. b3 Nf6 2. Bb2 g6 3. e4 Bg7 4. Bc4 O-O 5. e5 Nh5 6. Qf3 d6 7. Qe4 Nc6 8.
d4 Nb4 9. exd6 exd6 10. Ne2 d5 11. Bxd5 Nf6 12. Bxb7 Nxe4 13. Bxe4 Re8 14.
f3 Ba6 15. Nbc3 Nxc2+ 16. Bxc2 Qxd4 17. Be4 Qe3 18. Nb5 Bxb5 19. Bd3 Bxd3
20. Kf1 Qxe2+
{White resigns} 0-1
In this game, GetClub didn't see deeper than 6 plies (on a 3GHz P4
computer). It used to claim that it saw deeper in earlier versions, so
I don't really understand where your "30% stronger moves" comes from.
--
Peter Osterlund - [email protected]
http://web.telia.com/~u89404340
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Date: 27 Jul 2008 06:14:16
From: SBD
Subject: Re: GetClub improved by 30% today.
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On Jul 27, 6:49 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> So play a game with Beginner Level and it will give you a good
> Challenge.
An infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number of keyboards have
a better chance of duplicating the output of Alekhine's Parrot....
wait, that only takes one monkey, never mind.
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