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Main
Date: 19 Feb 2008 00:22:41
From: Sanny
Subject: GetClub(Beginner) beat Rybka at Best Level
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Rybka which claims to be best Chess program was beaten by Beginner
Level today.
Rybka played wrong move thinking it will Mate in 2/3 But the King was
saved and Rybka Resigned saying Unable to Respone.
Rybka was playing at Hard Level and Beginner was playing with Black
Pieces.
This show Rybka is not Strongest Chess Program in the World as
Beginner Level was able to beat it.
I suppose GetClub is now as good as Rybka . Is there any other
Program better than Jester and Rybka. As GetClub Beginner Level has
beaten Both of them once. Both claim at their site they are the Best.
But then why Rybka lost to Beginner Level.
Here is the Game between GetClub(Beginner Level) and Rybka (Hard
Level)
Game Played between sanjay11 and beginner at GetClub.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16789&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White -- Black
(Rybka) -- (beginner)
1. e2-e4{16} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{18} Nb8-c6{0}
3. Bf1-b5{10} a7-a6{0}
4. Bb5-c6{14} d7-c6{12}
5. Ke1-g1{14} Qd8-d6{6}
6. d2-d3{14} Bc8-e6{8}
7. b2-b3{16} Ke8-c8{6}
8. Nb1-d2{12} Qd6-c5{8}
9. Nd2-c4{24} Be6-c4{6}
10. b3-c4{16} Qc5-d6{12}
11. Qd1-e1{14} Ng8-f6{10}
12. Ra1-b1{28} Bf8-e7{6}
13. Qe1-e3{20} Kc8-b8{8}
14. Qe3-g5{22} Nf6-e4{20}
15. Qg5-e5{14} Ne4-f6{6}
16. Bc1-f4{18} Qd6-d7{6}
17. Qe5-a5{30} Be7-d6{8}
18. Nf3-e5{14} Qd7-e8{8}
19. Rb1-b7{22} Kb8-b7{10}
20. Rf1-b1{24} Kb7-a7{6}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16789&game=Chess
Bye
Sanny
So players who used to think GetClub is worst Engine, Now change your
mind. As now GetClub has beaten Both Jester and Rybka Once. Should
GetClub take the Title of Best Program in the World Or there any other
Program which can beat GetClub like a fish.
How good Fritz and Chess Master Play? Anyone going to have a Match Can
they still beat the Master Level of GetClub?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 20 Feb 2008 23:06:26
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Rybka is Best Program
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On Feb 21, 1:20 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > Now, you say that there was a technical
> > problem with Rybka, and your response? To
> > forfeit the other guy-- Rybka. This merely
> > shows that you cannot be trusted to play
> > games between your program and others;
> > you are not a "fair" arbiter, but rather, a very
> > biased one.
>
> I try not be biased. You can see that there was problem in
> understanding that The Rybka Stopped because of disconnection and not
> because it resigned. I was playing with it for the first time So I was
> not knowing whether "Unable to Response" means It is Resigning.
The test: give us examples where you erred
in forfeiting the GetClub program by mistake,
when you shouldn't have. If there are no such
examples, you have failed "the test", since
there are *numerous* examples where you
rushed to forfeit GC's opponents unfairly.
-- help bot
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Date: 20 Feb 2008 22:20:18
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Rybka is Best Program
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> =A0 Now, you say that there was a technical
> problem with Rybka, and your response? To
> forfeit the other guy-- Rybka. =A0This merely
> shows that you cannot be trusted to play
> games between your program and others;
> you are not a "fair" arbiter, but rather, a very
> biased one.
I try not be biased. You can see that there was problem in
understanding that The Rybka Stopped because of disconnection and not
because it resigned. I was playing with it for the first time So I was
not knowing whether "Unable to Response" means It is Resigning.
Only after analyzing the game on Computer later I find a Mate in 8.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 20 Feb 2008 22:17:12
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Rybka is Best Program
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> =A0 The move times for Rybka seem to indicate
> that it had no openings book, or else that the
> operator is exceedingly slow. =A0For instance,
> the moves e4, Nf3, Bb5, Ba4 and O-O should
> all read as time =3D 0 for White.
>
Rybka is not using any Opening book.
The time taken by GetClub is Only the time the GetClub Program is
thinking.
The Time Shown for RybKa Involves
1. First When I see the move made by GetClub (3 sec)
2. I type the Move by GetClub to Rybka (3 sec)
Time Taken by Rybka for that Move (X sec)
3. I find Rybka has made a move (3 sec)
4. I write the mode Made by Rybka to GetClub (3 sec)
So For each move you may add 12 seconds extra for the operating job.
And sometimes I go for drinking water then add +30 sec extra.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 20 Feb 2008 19:51:37
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Rybka is Best Program
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On Feb 20, 12:14 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> I think you have not read the full Comment. The Rybka Stop Functioning
> after it found Mate in 13. And how will I know it is going to Mate
> after 13 depth? Since It gave error message "Unable to Response" I
> thought It has resigned.
Sanny, whenever there has been a technical
problem with your own program, your typical
response has been to forfeit the other guy, to
give your program credit for "winning" even if
it was obvious that it couldn't.
Now, you say that there was a technical
problem with Rybka, and your response? To
forfeit the other guy-- Rybka. This merely
shows that you cannot be trusted to play
games between your program and others;
you are not a "fair" arbiter, but rather, a very
biased one.
In my opinion, a fairer contest would have
your Java applet at one of its highest levels,
say Master, pitted against Rybka at a couple
seconds per move, but allowed to think while
your Master level was thinking; this, on two
seperate computers, so there is no slowing
of either engine. I believe that your program
might win at under one second, but lose at
three or more for Rybka-- or something like
that. The reason is that only rarely would
Rybka correctly anticipate the GetClub
program's (inferior) moves, so much of its
background thinking time would have been,
in effect, "wasted" to a large degree.
Your program has been getting tougher and
tougher, and unlike those who may sneak on
and then only report if they happen to win, I
am satisfied to accept the reality, which here
is that some games look terrible, while others
make the GC program look a lot like Fritz or
any other program, except for the openings
book. In particular, where your program
somehow manages to win before the endgame,
many of its worst flaws remain hidden from
view.
I still remember back when the GC program
was so weak that I felt like Paul Morphy,
reincarnated! Every game, or so it seemed,
had me as brilliant tactician, pitted against
"Anon" the horrible duffer; I was a genius, in
every game and in every tactical skirmish.
But no more... .
-- help bot
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Date: 20 Feb 2008 19:34:01
From: help bot
Subject: Re: opening's guru vs. endgame analysis
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On Feb 19, 11:12 am, Mike Murray <[email protected] > wrote:
> channel the game away from anti-computer strategies -- human analysis
> is of too low quality to help the silicon monsters these days.
Whoa there, fella! You may speak for yourself, but
a few of us happen to know better. Computers with
no openings book still founder in the opening.
For example, many a book has been written in
which it is carefully explained how blocking the
c-pawn early with N-c3 or N-c6 constricts one's
own pieces; yet even the very best programs
will do exactly this, if you disable their openings
books. Now, while weak players may argue
that perhaps these monstrosities "know better"
than the authors of those books, real chess
players understand that it is merely an
indication that they have been programmed
poorly in this area of the game.
Think of the famous game in which DeepBlue,
or some other killer program, was stomping all
over GM Karpov, UNTIL it had to choose
between grabbing lots of pawns, or keeping the
opponent from getting far-advanced connected
passers which could not be stopped; the
clueless, materialist program grabbed the pawns
as a matter of course, judging it obtained a hefty
material advantage, only to lose the game like a
carrot.
Don't deceive yourself into thinking that these
new programs are near to perfection; they are
better than us, but that is no reason to give
them very much credit at all. It is still apparent
that they suffer from the dreaded horizon effect,
that they will play for spite checks in order to
push the fact that they are making zero head-
way beyond their own sight-lines, much like an
ostrich which buries its head in the sand.
I believe that human analysis can still help
these programs, but it needs to be of the
highest quality-- not the type of stuff typically
found published in Chess Lies magazine,
which I find is easily refuted by these very
programs, sans books and sans table-bases!
-- help bot
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Date: 20 Feb 2008 19:14:22
From: help bot
Subject: Re: opening's guru vs. endgame analysis
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On Feb 19, 10:57 am, "webfilelib" <[email protected] > wrote:
> I have a question about fairness:
>
> If computer programs are allowed to have
> opening's books (i.e. human-aided analysis)
> when playing against humans...
>
> then why can't humans have endgame analysis
> from a hand-held calculator
> when playing against computers?
Because, only the computers are allowed
to cheat at chess.
When humans do this sort of thing, they
are sumily whipped, keel-hulled, or at
the very least ostracized, excommunicated,
and labeled left-wing radical lunatic-fringers.
You may recall a game or two in which
humans pitted Bobby Fischer against the
dreadful Greenblatt program; so horrible was
the slaughter that from that time forward, it
was decided to just allow computers to
cheat at will! This seemed only fair at the
time... .
-- fairness bot
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Date: 20 Feb 2008 19:09:10
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Rybka is Best Program
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On Feb 19, 8:20 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Rybka beat GetClubs Normal Level in just 25 Moves.
>
> Game Played between Rybka and normal at GetClub.com. Why do Normal
> Level Lost to Rybka? Which were the Wrong Moves that Normal Level
> Made?
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rybka : (White)
> normal: (Black)
Here, the GetClub program first went wrong
when it sat down to play. Yet the crowd did
not truly guffaw until it saw GC's moves... .
-- eval. bot
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Date: 20 Feb 2008 19:07:11
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Rybka is Best Program
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On Feb 19, 7:08 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> Here is a Very Short game Rybka won in just 15 Moves. It out played
> Easy Level in Just 15 Moves. Now I will try playing it with Normal
> Level and see if Normal gives any Challege to Rybka.
>
> Game Played between sanjay11 and easy at GetClub.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rybka : (White)
> easy: (Black)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16798&game=Chess
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> White -- Black
> (Rybka ) -- (easy)
>
> 1. e2-e4{18} e7-e5{0}
> 2. Ng1-f3{56} Nb8-c6{0}
> 3. Bf1-b5{16} a7-a6{0}
> 4. Bb5-a4{10} Ng8-f6{0}
> 5. Ke1-g1{12} b7-b5{50}
> 6. Ba4-b3{12} Bf8-c5{26}
> 7. Nf3-e5{30} Nc6-e5{20}
> 8. d2-d4{18} Nf6-e4{26}
> 9. d4-c5{12} Ne4-f6{38}
> 10. f2-f4{18} Ne5-c6{26}
> 11. Rf1-e1{14} Ke8-f8{50}
> 12. Nb1-c3{16} Kf8-g8{24}
> 13. Nc3-d5{152} Nf6-d5{22}
> 14. Qd1-d5{18} Qd8-f8{38}
> 15. Qd5-f7{12} Qf8-f7{28}
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The move times for Rybka seem to indicate
that it had no openings book, or else that the
operator is exceedingly slow. For instance,
the moves e4, Nf3, Bb5, Ba4 and O-O should
all read as time = 0 for White.
-- help bot
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Date: 20 Feb 2008 00:33:36
From: Sanny
Subject: Longest (38 Moves) game by Normal Level
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Here is a game where Normal Level was able to fight till 38 Moves
against Rybka (Hard Level)
Game Played between sanjay11 and normal at GetClub.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
normal: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16861&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White -- Black
(sanjay11) -- (normal)
1. e2-e4{4} c7-c6{0}
2. Nb1-c3{44} d7-d5{110}
3. e4-d5{18} c6-d5{116}
4. Bf1-b5{20} Nb8-c6{120}
5. Ng1-f3{14} Qd8-d6{114}
6. Ke1-g1{18} g7-g6{124}
7. d2-d4{16} Bc8-f5{110}
8. Nf3-e5{26} f7-f6{134}
9. Bc1-f4{28} Qd6-e6{82}
10. Ne5-d3{20} Ra8-d8{142}
11. Bf4-c7{22} Rd8-c8{104}
12. Bc7-g3{16} a7-a6{140}
13. Rf1-e1{14} Qe6-f7{152}
14. Bb5-a4{24} b7-b5{110}
15. Ba4-b3{18} Nc6-d4{132}
16. Bb3-d5{18} e7-e6{98}
17. Nd3-f4{20} Bf8-c5{90}
18. Nc3-e4{18} Bf5-e4{104}
19. Re1-e4{16} f6-f5{80}
20. Re4-e5{24} Rc8-d8{152}
21. c2-c3{22} Ng8-e7{104}
22. c3-d4{16} Bc5-d6{84}
23. Nf4-e6{18} Ne7-d5{146}
24. Ne6-g5{18} Bd6-e5{84}
25. Ng5-f7{20} Ke8-f7{114}
26. Bg3-e5{14} Rh8-e8{104}
27. Qd1-c1{30} Kf7-g8{126}
28. Qc1-c6{12} f5-f4{140}
29. Qc6-a6{56} b5-b4{204}
30. Ra1-c1{22} f4-f3{130}
31. Rc1-c6{16} Kg8-f8{90}
32. Rc6-f6{20} Kf8-g8{80}
33. Rf6-g6{24} Kg8-f8{96}
34. Rg6-g3{20} Kf8-e7{152}
35. Rg3-g7{24} Ke7-f8{146}
36. Rg7-h7{48} Re8-e7{118}
37. Rh7-h8{16} Kf8-f7{98}
38. Rh8-d8{20} Nd5-f6{90}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
normal: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16861&game=Chess
Nowadays no one is able to spot mistakes in GetClub Game. Is it very
tough to analyze these games. Still if you find mistake in GetClubs
game tell me So that I can improve the game.
Are the game lost to Rybka because of poor Calculations or it is
because Depth of Analysis of Rybka is higher.
Normal Level thinks 14 depth deep. How much deep does Rybka think?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 19 Feb 2008 22:41:31
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Rybka is Best Program
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> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Beginner Level Survived till 27 Moves against Rybka.
Here is the Game
Game Played between sanjay11 and beginner at GetClub.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16852&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White -- Black
(sanjay11) -- (beginner)
1. e2-e4{2} d7-d5{0}
2. e4-d5{16} Ng8-f6{0}
3. d2-d4{14} Nf6-d5{0}
4. c2-c4{10} Nd5-b6{0}
5. Ng1-f3{10} Bc8-f5{10}
6. Bf1-d3{62} e7-e6{6}
7. Bd3-f5{12} e6-f5{8}
8. Ke1-g1{12} Bf8-e7{8}
9. Qd1-b3{12} c7-c5{6}
10. d4-c5{16} Be7-c5{10}
11. a2-a4{16} Qd8-c8{8}
12. Rf1-e1{14} Ke8-f8{6}
13. Bc1-f4{12} h7-h6{6}
14. a4-a5{12} Nb6-c4{8}
15. Re1-c1{18} Nc4-a5{6}
16. Ra1-a5{12} b7-b6{8}
17. Nf3-e5{12} Qc8-e6{6}
18. Qb3-f3{14} Bc5-d6{6}
19. Ra5-d5{16} Kf8-g8{20}
20. Rd5-d6{10} Qe6-d6{10}
21. Rc1-c8{16} Kg8-h7{10}
22. Rc8-h8{16} Kh7-h8{8}
23. Ne5-f7{16} Kh8-g8{6}
24. Nf7-d6{14} Nb8-c6{8}
25. Qf3-c6{14} Ra8-f8{10}
26. Qc6-d7{14} g7-g6{12}
27. Bf4-h6{14} a7-a5{6}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16852&game=Chess
This is the longest Game survived by Beginner level In most games It
lost in just 20 Moves.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 19 Feb 2008 21:14:55
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Rybka is Best Program
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On Feb 20, 12:48=A0am, SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Feb 19, 11:22=A0am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Rybka went to get Queen and there was no way to stop that passed pawn.
> > What do you think?
>
> I wiash you would stop posting this garbage until you know the least
> little thing about
>
> (1).chess
>
> (2). computerchess
>
> but that seems unlikely.
I think you have not read the full Comment. The Rybka Stop Functioning
after it found Mate in 13. And how will I know it is going to Mate
after 13 depth? Since It gave error message "Unable to Response" I
thought It has resigned.
I have then played against Rybka with Easy & Normal Level. I found it
is playing very good moves and Still it is te World Best Program.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 19 Feb 2008 11:48:46
From: SBD
Subject: Re: Rybka is Best Program
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On Feb 19, 11:22=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Rybka went to get Queen and there was no way to stop that passed pawn.
> What do you think?
I wiash you would stop posting this garbage until you know the least
little thing about
(1). chess
(2). computer chess
but that seems unlikely.
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Date: 19 Feb 2008 09:22:06
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Rybka is Best Program
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> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Here is another game with Rybka. Can you find mistake in Getclubs
game?
Game Played between sanjay11 and beginner at GetClub.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16825&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White -- Black
(sanjay11) -- (beginner)
1. e2-e4{4} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{48} d7-d6{0}
3. Bf1-c4{16} Nb8-c6{6}
4. Nb1-c3{14} Bc8-g4{6}
5. Ke1-g1{26} Ng8-f6{8}
6. h2-h3{22} Bg4-f3{6}
7. Qd1-f3{20} Nc6-d4{6}
8. Qf3-d3{18} c7-c6{8}
9. a2-a4{22} b7-b6{6}
10. Nc3-e2{18} Nd4-e2{6}
11. Qd3-e2{18} Bf8-e7{8}
12. d2-d4{16} e5-d4{8}
13. Rf1-d1{14} Ke8-g8{6}
14. Rd1-d4{24} d6-d5{14}
15. e4-d5{14} Be7-c5{6}
16. Rd4-d3{18} Qd8-e8{8}
17. Qe2-e8{16} Rf8-e8{8}
18. d5-c6{14} Re8-e1{6}
19. Kg1-h2{42} Bc5-f2{6}
20. c6-c7{22} Bf2-g1{6}
21. Kh2-g3{18} Ra8-e8{6}
22. Rd3-d8{14} Nf6-e4{6}
23. Kg3-f3{16} Ne4-d6{8}
24. Bc1-f4{24} Re1-e4{6}
25. Ra1-g1{18} Nd6-b7{8}
26. Rg1-d1{18} g7-g5{6}
27. Qc7-c8{Q}{22} Re4-f4{6}
28. Kf3-g3{18} Nb7-d8{6}
29. Rd1-d8{14} Kg8-g7{8}
30. Rd8-e8{14} a7-a5{8}
31. Re8-g8{20} Kg7-f6{8}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16825&game=Chess
Rybka went to get Queen and there was no way to stop that passed pawn.
What do you think?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 19 Feb 2008 05:20:40
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Rybka is Best Program
|
Rybka beat GetClubs Normal Level in just 25 Moves.
Game Played between Rybka and normal at GetClub.com. Why do Normal
Level Lost to Rybka? Which were the Wrong Moves that Normal Level
Made?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka : (White)
normal: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16807&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White -- Black
(Rybka ) -- (normal)
1. e2-e4{4} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{22} Nb8-c6{0}
3. Bf1-b5{14} Ng8-f6{0}
4. Ke1-g1{18} Nf6-e4{0}
5. d2-d4{14} Ne4-d6{0}
6. Bb5-c6{14} e5-e4{240}
7. Bc6-e4{46} Nd6-e4{198}
8. Qd1-e2{14} d7-d5{86}
9. Nb1-c3{24} f7-f5{110}
10. Nf3-e5{20} g7-g6{112}
11. Nc3-e4{20} f5-e4{106}
12. f2-f3{16} Qd8-d6{128}
13. f3-e4{18} d5-e4{148}
14. Qe2-e4{14} Bc8-f5{184}
15. Qe4-b7{16} Qd6-d4{116}
16. Kg1-h1{16} Qd4-e4{170}
17. Qb7-c7{30} Bf8-e7{82}
18. Bc1-g5{26} Be7-g5{96}
19. Qc7-f7{22} Ke8-d8{122}
20. Ra1-d1{16} Kd8-c8{92}
21. Rf1-f5{16} Qe4-f5{90}
22. Qf7-c4{54} Kc8-b8{82}
23. Qc4-b4{28} Kb8-c7{134}
24. Qb4-c5{22} Kc7-b8{132}
25. Qc5-d6{16} Kb8-c8{126}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka : (White)
normal: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16807&game=Chess
Please Analyze this small game and let me know Why Normal Level lost
to Rybka? What were the wrong moves by GetClub Chess?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
|
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Date: 19 Feb 2008 04:08:31
From: Sanny
Subject: Rybka is Best Program
|
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Here is a Very Short game Rybka won in just 15 Moves. It out played
Easy Level in Just 15 Moves. Now I will try playing it with Normal
Level and see if Normal gives any Challege to Rybka.
Game Played between sanjay11 and easy at GetClub.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka : (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16798&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White -- Black
(Rybka ) -- (easy)
1. e2-e4{18} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{56} Nb8-c6{0}
3. Bf1-b5{16} a7-a6{0}
4. Bb5-a4{10} Ng8-f6{0}
5. Ke1-g1{12} b7-b5{50}
6. Ba4-b3{12} Bf8-c5{26}
7. Nf3-e5{30} Nc6-e5{20}
8. d2-d4{18} Nf6-e4{26}
9. d4-c5{12} Ne4-f6{38}
10. f2-f4{18} Ne5-c6{26}
11. Rf1-e1{14} Ke8-f8{50}
12. Nb1-c3{16} Kf8-g8{24}
13. Nc3-d5{152} Nf6-d5{22}
14. Qd1-d5{18} Qd8-f8{38}
15. Qd5-f7{12} Qf8-f7{28}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka : (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM16798&game=Chess
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 19 Feb 2008 03:27:44
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub(Beginner) beat Rybka at Best Level
|
On Feb 19, 3:47=A0pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Feb 19, 4:51 am, help bot <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Rybka played wrong move thinking it will Mate in 2/3 But the King was
> > > saved and Rybka Resigned saying Unable to Respone.
> > > 17. Qe5-a5{30} Be7-d6{8}
> > > 18. Nf3-e5{14} Qd7-e8{8}
> > > 19. Rb1-b7{22} Kb8-b7{10}
> > > 20. Rf1-b1{24} Kb7-a7{6}
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----=AD-----
>
> > =A0 This is a forced mate, and in such cases,
> > a few programs "freeze up", just displaying
> > the next move in sequence. =A0I hate this, but
> > don't know if it is a flaw of the engine itself,
> > or another "interesting facet" of the GUI; in
> > my case, that would be Arena.
>
> =A0 I tried to test this by having various engines
> analyze, to see if in fact the GUI (Arena) has
> a bug (i.e. unique feature) or if the fault lay
> with the engine itself. =A0Unfortunately, all I get
> are error messages, saying that my bundled
> engines are missing. =A0I had "installed" Spike,
> or so I thought, along with some other free
> engines; no doubt they are hiding somewhere
> on my disk drive.
>
> =A0 My guess is that Sanny was using the free
> Rybka demo, beta version, and that either it
> or else his GUI (mine is Arena) will not allow
> the engine(s) to analyze the position when it
> has spotted a forced mating sequence-- even
> a suboptimal one. =A0I don't like that at all; my
> preference would be for the legal moves to be
> both ranked in order, and scored numerically.
> "Here you are, bot: your dumb move is
> ranked 53rd out of 57 legal moves, and you
> missed seven different ways to quickly force
> checkmate...".
>
> =A0 Maybe the commercial versions handle
> things better. =A0Maybe the non-beta versions
> work correctly. =A0In any case, Sanny keeps
> talking about "Rybka", when I expect he
> really means Rybka beta demo version 1.0
> (which is supposedly stronger than almost
> every commercial program anyhow).
>
> =A0 -- help bot
Yes I played On a Computer and It finds Mate in 4.
mate in 4 moves 21. Be3+ c5 22. Bxc5+ Bxc5 23. Qxc7+ Ka8 24. Qb7#
Looks like there was an error at the Site Because actually it do not
move and there was an Error: "Unable to Response". It was a nice
Sacrifice by Rykba.
It saw 13 Moves Ahead to see Mate in 13. And then Sacrificed its Rook.
Beginner Level was just thinking till 8-10 depth deep So it overlooked
13 depth Mate.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
|
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Date: 19 Feb 2008 02:47:59
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub(Beginner) beat Rybka at Best Level
|
On Feb 19, 4:51 am, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> > Rybka played wrong move thinking it will Mate in 2/3 But the King was
> > saved and Rybka Resigned saying Unable to Respone.
> > 17. Qe5-a5{30} Be7-d6{8}
> > 18. Nf3-e5{14} Qd7-e8{8}
> > 19. Rb1-b7{22} Kb8-b7{10}
> > 20. Rf1-b1{24} Kb7-a7{6}
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is a forced mate, and in such cases,
> a few programs "freeze up", just displaying
> the next move in sequence. I hate this, but
> don't know if it is a flaw of the engine itself,
> or another "interesting facet" of the GUI; in
> my case, that would be Arena.
I tried to test this by having various engines
analyze, to see if in fact the GUI (Arena) has
a bug (i.e. unique feature) or if the fault lay
with the engine itself. Unfortunately, all I get
are error messages, saying that my bundled
engines are missing. I had "installed" Spike,
or so I thought, along with some other free
engines; no doubt they are hiding somewhere
on my disk drive.
My guess is that Sanny was using the free
Rybka demo, beta version, and that either it
or else his GUI (mine is Arena) will not allow
the engine(s) to analyze the position when it
has spotted a forced mating sequence-- even
a suboptimal one. I don't like that at all; my
preference would be for the legal moves to be
both ranked in order, and scored numerically.
"Here you are, bot: your dumb move is
ranked 53rd out of 57 legal moves, and you
missed seven different ways to quickly force
checkmate...".
Maybe the commercial versions handle
things better. Maybe the non-beta versions
work correctly. In any case, Sanny keeps
talking about "Rybka", when I expect he
really means Rybka beta demo version 1.0
(which is supposedly stronger than almost
every commercial program anyhow).
-- help bot
|
| |
Date: 19 Feb 2008 01:51:46
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub(Beginner) beat Rybka at Best Level
|
On Feb 19, 3:22 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Rybka which claims to be best Chess program was beaten by Beginner
> Level today.
>
> Rybka played wrong move thinking it will Mate in 2/3 But the King was
> saved and Rybka Resigned saying Unable to Respone.
Sanny, I think you are misinterpreting the
program's behavior here. Unless it actually
"resigns", you cannot take the reins and
resign for it just because you want to, as
you so often have in the past-- even for
human players.
> Rybka was playing at Hard Level and Beginner was playing with Black
> Pieces.
>
> This show Rybka is not Strongest Chess Program in the World as
> Beginner Level was able to beat it.
I recall that Zappa beat Rybka in some recent
event, but it mainly showed that the other
program's openings book guy won a single
battle against Rybka's opening's guru.
> I suppose GetClub is now as good as Rybka .
That would be wrong.
> Is there any other
> Program better than Jester and Rybka.
Try playing a game out, to the actual finish
against Rybka, and see what happens.
> As GetClub Beginner Level has
> beaten Both of them once. Both claim at their site they are the Best.
> But then why Rybka lost to Beginner Level.
You are the only one who believes it did.
The rest of the world will see this as just
another "boy cries "wolf!" posting.
> White -- Black
> (Rybka) -- (beginner)
>
> 1. e2-e4{16} e7-e5{0}
> 2. Ng1-f3{18} Nb8-c6{0}
> 3. Bf1-b5{10} a7-a6{0}
> 4. Bb5-c6{14} d7-c6{12}
> 5. Ke1-g1{14} Qd8-d6{6}
> 6. d2-d3{14} Bc8-e6{8}
> 7. b2-b3{16} Ke8-c8{6}
> 8. Nb1-d2{12} Qd6-c5{8}
> 9. Nd2-c4{24} Be6-c4{6}
> 10. b3-c4{16} Qc5-d6{12}
> 11. Qd1-e1{14} Ng8-f6{10}
> 12. Ra1-b1{28} Bf8-e7{6}
> 13. Qe1-e3{20} Kc8-b8{8}
> 14. Qe3-g5{22} Nf6-e4{20}
Things don't look too bad for the GC program
here. At this quick rate of play, Rybka went
after a pawn (g7) which would have opened a
file for attack on its own King.
> 15. Qg5-e5{14} Ne4-f6{6}
> 16. Bc1-f4{18} Qd6-d7{6}
A horrible strategic error. Black ought to
have fallen over itself to trade Queens, in
view of the severely compromised pawns
in front of its own King. Now White's
attack easily crashes through.
> 17. Qe5-a5{30} Be7-d6{8}
> 18. Nf3-e5{14} Qd7-e8{8}
> 19. Rb1-b7{22} Kb8-b7{10}
> 20. Rf1-b1{24} Kb7-a7{6}
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a forced mate, and in such cases,
a few programs "freeze up", just displaying
the next move in sequence. I hate this, but
don't know if it is a flaw of the engine itself,
or another "interesting facet" of the GUI; in
my case, that would be Arena.
The longest mate goes as follows:
20. Rb1+ Ka7
21. Be3+ c5
22. Bxc5+ Bxc5
23. Qxc7+ Ka8
24. Qb7++
1-0
-- help bot
|
| | |
Date: 19 Feb 2008 10:57:11
From: webfilelib
Subject: opening's guru vs. endgame analysis
|
"help bot" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:b394cca2-308e-4ea0-a35d-bab3e3afa8d6@n77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 19, 3:22 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Rybka which claims to be best Chess program was beaten by Beginner
>> Level today.
>>
>> Rybka played wrong move thinking it will Mate in 2/3 But the King was
>> saved and Rybka Resigned saying Unable to Respone.
>
> Sanny, I think you are misinterpreting the
> program's behavior here. Unless it actually
> "resigns", you cannot take the reins and
> resign for it just because you want to, as
> you so often have in the past-- even for
> human players.
>
>
>> Rybka was playing at Hard Level and Beginner was playing with Black
>> Pieces.
>>
>> This show Rybka is not Strongest Chess Program in the World as
>> Beginner Level was able to beat it.
>
> I recall that Zappa beat Rybka in some recent
> event, but it mainly showed that the other
> program's openings book guy won a single
> battle against Rybka's opening's guru.
I have a question about fairness:
If computer programs are allowed to have
opening's books (i.e. human-aided analysis)
when playing against humans...
then why can't humans have endgame analysis
from a hand-held calculator
when playing against computers?
-N-
>
>
>> I suppose GetClub is now as good as Rybka .
>
> That would be wrong.
>
>
>> Is there any other
>> Program better than Jester and Rybka.
>
> Try playing a game out, to the actual finish
> against Rybka, and see what happens.
>
>
>> As GetClub Beginner Level has
>> beaten Both of them once. Both claim at their site they are the Best.
>> But then why Rybka lost to Beginner Level.
>
> You are the only one who believes it did.
>
> The rest of the world will see this as just
> another "boy cries "wolf!" posting.
>
>
>> White -- Black
>> (Rybka) -- (beginner)
>>
>> 1. e2-e4{16} e7-e5{0}
>> 2. Ng1-f3{18} Nb8-c6{0}
>> 3. Bf1-b5{10} a7-a6{0}
>> 4. Bb5-c6{14} d7-c6{12}
>> 5. Ke1-g1{14} Qd8-d6{6}
>> 6. d2-d3{14} Bc8-e6{8}
>> 7. b2-b3{16} Ke8-c8{6}
>> 8. Nb1-d2{12} Qd6-c5{8}
>> 9. Nd2-c4{24} Be6-c4{6}
>> 10. b3-c4{16} Qc5-d6{12}
>> 11. Qd1-e1{14} Ng8-f6{10}
>> 12. Ra1-b1{28} Bf8-e7{6}
>> 13. Qe1-e3{20} Kc8-b8{8}
>> 14. Qe3-g5{22} Nf6-e4{20}
>
> Things don't look too bad for the GC program
> here. At this quick rate of play, Rybka went
> after a pawn (g7) which would have opened a
> file for attack on its own King.
>
>
>> 15. Qg5-e5{14} Ne4-f6{6}
>> 16. Bc1-f4{18} Qd6-d7{6}
>
> A horrible strategic error. Black ought to
> have fallen over itself to trade Queens, in
> view of the severely compromised pawns
> in front of its own King. Now White's
> attack easily crashes through.
>
>
>> 17. Qe5-a5{30} Be7-d6{8}
>> 18. Nf3-e5{14} Qd7-e8{8}
>> 19. Rb1-b7{22} Kb8-b7{10}
>> 20. Rf1-b1{24} Kb7-a7{6}
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> This is a forced mate, and in such cases,
> a few programs "freeze up", just displaying
> the next move in sequence. I hate this, but
> don't know if it is a flaw of the engine itself,
> or another "interesting facet" of the GUI; in
> my case, that would be Arena.
>
> The longest mate goes as follows:
>
> 20. Rb1+ Ka7
>
> 21. Be3+ c5
>
> 22. Bxc5+ Bxc5
>
> 23. Qxc7+ Ka8
>
> 24. Qb7++
>
> 1-0
>
>
> -- help bot
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | |
Date: 19 Feb 2008 08:12:01
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: opening's guru vs. endgame analysis
|
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:57:11 -0500, "webfilelib" <[email protected] >
wrote:
>I have a question about fairness:
>If computer programs are allowed to have
>opening's books (i.e. human-aided analysis)
>when playing against humans...
>then why can't humans have endgame analysis
>from a hand-held calculator
>when playing against computers?
One obvious answer is an opening book is analogous to human memory,
but a calculator is another computer.
But, they *do* have contests of man+computer versus computer.
It's not really a question of "fairness". You can set up these
contests any way you want, just as you can set up consultation games
between humans, or correspondence games where the master takes on the
readership of a publication (with the readership's move selected by
vote), etc.
And you *can* play the computer with the opening book turned off. In
fact, I think the main function of the opening book is just to
channel the game away from anti-computer strategies -- human analysis
is of too low quality to help the silicon monsters these days.
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